Initial spouse visa to the UK leading to ILR after 5 years

[nottarf]

As a fellow member wrote

“Having spent umpteen hours trying to decipher probably one of the worst and most incomprehensible websites in existence, that of the UKBA”

I agree 100%.

I have spent literally days reading, and going around in circles, there is information needed by people who wish to apply for a visa that is just not on the UKBA.

I have emailed the general email address in the UK [email protected]

The response is still - “We will respond to you as soon as possible”.

I have emailed the VFS Global in Thailand – “no reply”.

I have phoned VFS Global in Thailand – “only a computer generated message is heard upon calling”.

I have now (not that it will do me any good) complained as per their web site – the response was – “we will provide a full reply within 2 working days excluding the day of the complaint”.

Still no reply.

July 2013 I ask my MP to take up a few queries with the UKBA about my daughters status regarding being British by descent.

4 months later still no reply.

These people have just no accountability. We are treated as the great unwashed.

How can a visa application be submitted if you do not have answers to your particular circumstances?

These public sector civil servants drifted into the unreal world of government employment because they would be unable cut it in the private sector.

Would there be any members here that could answer any of the following.

Rant over….

I have been unable to find answers to the following questions after searching on the UKBA web site.
Can you please assist.

Summary:

Applying for ILR for my wife but I cannot seem to locate all the correct forms applicable to are situation.

When the visa is granted we all will be going to the UK.

I am a British citizen. I am married to a Thai national (married February 2005).

We have a 4 year old daughter that has a Thai and British birth certificate and

Thai and British passport.

******* I live here in Thailand so I am not present and settled in the UK at this moment in time.

My 10 questions are:

Question 1.

What Forms and Appendix to use?

Is it

PERSONAL DETAILS FORM (VAF4A DECEMBER 2012) FAMILY SETTLEMENT APPLICATION FORM

If so this form then states under:

Selecting the correct Appendix

You should complete Appendix 1 if you wish to come to the UK as:

• The adult dependant relative of a person who is present and settled in the UK; SEE above marked ******* I am in Thailand

You should complete Appendix 2 (the financial details) if you wish to come to the UK as:

• The spouse or civil partner of someone settled in the UK; or ******* I am in Thailand

Appendixes 3 – 6 are definitely not applicable to me.

· APPENDIX 2 (VAF 4A NOVEMBER 2012) FINANCIAL REQUIREMENT FORM

On what basis are you going to the UK? Put a cross (x) in the relevant box.

As the spouse or civil partner of someone settled in the UK. ******* I am in Thailand

At the time of applying I am in Thailand.

Question 2.

Do I need to complete

The spouse or civil partner of someone settled in the UK;

Form SU07/12 - SPONSORSHIP UNDERTAKING FORM

Question 3.

· Child not yet in the UK. Our child is here in Thailand

VAF4A Section 4.22. Provide details below that demonstrate that you have a genuine, subsisting and active relationship with your child/children in the UK.

Question 4

Does the English Language Requirement need to be successfully completed before submitting our visa application?

Question 5

Bank Statements

I bank online and download bank account statements when I want but

the format is an Excel (.xls) spreadsheet.

There is no bank stamp etc. on this.

Example

30-Sep-13 Bank credit PEN. SCH. PAY £1,xxx.38

Question 6

· Employment during the initial 5 Year ILR period.

Can my wife work during that 5 year period leading up to ILR.

Question 7

· TB test

When should this test be taken, say within 3 months of submitting our visa application.

Question 8

When does the ILR 5 year clock start?

When the visa is issued or on landing at Heathrow?

Question 9

· Finances

The British Embassy has issued my Thai Immigration letter stating my income since 2008. I assume theses can be used as evidence. No originals as Immigration take them.

Question 10

· Finances II

Premium Bonds

Equities Shares e.g. Bt Plc

Unit Trusts and Investment Trusts

Can these be used?

Thank you

[7by7]

1) Your wife needs to apply for settlement in the UK as a spouse, completing form VAF4A and Appendix 2.

Note that applications in Thailand have to be made online; see also Applying for a UK visa in Thailand or Laos.

2) No.

3) This only needs to be completed if the child is already living in the UK; your child isn't so leave it.

Your child is, presumably, dual Thai and British, so obviously does not need a visa to live in the UK and you do not need to meet the financial requirement for her/him.

However, if s/he is your step child and does not have British nationality and a British passport then s/he will need to make a separate visa application and you will need to meet the financial requirement for a child as well as for a spouse.

4) Yes, the A1 English speaking and listening certificate must be submitted with the application; no certificate and the application will be automatically refused.

5) Not sure about this one; I think you may need to get your bank to confirm the statements in writing; no disrespect but anyone can alter or make up an Excel spreadsheet. But see 10 below.

6) Yes.

7) The certificate will be valid for 6 months, and must still be valid when she submits the application.

8) The 'clock' starts when she first arrives in the UK; but her initial visa will start on the day it is issued (unless she asks when submitting the application for it to be post dated; which it can be for up to 3 months). However, this initial visa will be valid for 33 months and she only needs to have been resident in the UK for 30 months before she can apply for her 30 month extension; which will take her up to the 5 years she needs for ILR.

9) Don't think so; you must have bank statements etc., surely? But see 10 below.

10) For acceptable sources of finance, how they can be combined and the required evidence, see Annex FM Section FM 1.7: Financial Requirement

You may find UK Settlement Visa Basics helpful.

Edited October 11, 2013 by 7by7

[Tony M]

Re Question 5, there have been some recent amendments to the Appendix FM-SE. This is the official guidance :

3.3.4. Bank statements must be on official bank stationery. Alternatively electronic bank statements can also be accepted for all bank accounts (the account itself does not have to be exclusively online) as long as they are either accompanied by a letter from the bank on its headed stationery confirming that the documents are authentic or which bear the official stamp of the issuing bank on every page.

3.3.5. The bank statements must cover the specified periods as described in the Immigration Rules for each of the sources of income relied upon.

The Appendix FM-SE states :

In relation to evidencing the financial requirements in Appendix FM the following general provisions shall apply:

(a) Bank statements must:

(i) be from a financial institution regulated by the appropriate regulatory body for the country in which that institution is operating.
(ii) not be from a financial institution on the list of excluded institutions in Appendix P of these rules.
(iii) in relation to personal bank statements be only in the name of:

(1) the applicant's partner, the applicant or both as appropriate; or
(2) if the applicant is a child the applicant parent's partner, the applicant's parent or both as appropriate; or
(3) if the applicant is an adult dependent relative, the applicant's sponsor or the applicant,
unless otherwise stated.

(iv) cover the period(s) specified.

(v) be:

(1) on official bank stationery; or
(2) electronic bank statements which are either accompanied by a letter from the bank on its headed stationery confirming that the documents are authentic or which bear the official stamp of the issuing bank on every page.

(aa) Where a bank statement is specified in this Appendix, a building society statement, a building society pass book, a letter from the applicant's bank or building society, or a letter from a financial institution regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority or, for overseas accounts, the appropriate regulatory body for the country in which the institution operates and the funds are located, may be submitted as an alternative to a bank statement(s) provided that:

(1) the requirements in paragraph 1(a)(i)-(iv) are met as if the document were a bank statement; and

(2) a building society pass book must clearly show:

(i) the account number;
(ii) the building society's name and logo; and
(iii) the information required on transactions, funds held and time period(s) or as otherwise specified in this Appendix in relation to bank statements; and/or

(3) a letter must be on the headed stationery of the bank, building society or other financial institution and must clearly show:

(i) the account number,
(ii) the date of the letter;
(iii) the financial institution's name and logo; and
(iv) the information required on transactions, funds held and time period(s) or as otherwise specified in this Appendix in relation to bank statements.

[Kevin1908]

You have posted a question to UKBA and got no answer. You have complained to UKBA and got now answer. You complained to your MP 4 months ago and he hasn't answered.

I would now formaly write to the MP and ask that he forwards your complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman for a complaint of maladministration.

[7by7]

However, if s/he is your step child and does not have British nationality and a British passport then s/he will need to make a separate visa application and you will need to meet the financial requirement for a child as well as for a spouse.

Apols, I missed the following when I first read your OP:

July 2013 I ask my MP to take up a few queries with the UKBA about my daughters status regarding being British by descent.

So she is your daughter and as you say she is British by descent then she is a British citizen with all the rights and privileges (and responsibilities) enjoyed by all other British citizens; including the right to live in the UK without restriction or the need for any type of visa.

However, British citizenship can only descend one generation. Therefore her children will only be British if they are born in the UK or a qualifying territory and so would themselves be British otherwise than by descent, or if they are born outside the UK or a qualifying territory and their father is British otherwise than by descent and so they inherit their British citizenship from him and will be British by descent.

Having said that, even if her children are born outside the UK or a qualifying territory and their father is not British otherwise than by descent it is still possible that she could obtain British citizenship for them by registration; especially if she and they returned to the UK to live.

I don't know why it has been 4 months and your MP has not yet answered your questions; particularly as the details are easily found on the British citizenship pages of the UKBA website: click on 'British citizenship' then on 'About citizenship' then on 'Who has citizenship' and finally on 'Born overseas.'

I can't think of any other concerns or queries one would have about the status of a child who is British by descent; but if you have any more concerns, feel free to ask.

[nottarf]

Many thanks to 7by7, TonyM and Kevin 1908 for your input.

To clarify my MP did answer me the day after I contacted him back in July 2013.

He sent a letter on my behalf to UKBA.

My MP has not yet received any reply. He noted in his initial reply to me “I will be back in touch if I get anything further from the UKBA but I never hold my breath with them - they can take some time to reply even to MPs.”

So I will take up the suggestion of forwarding my complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman for a complaint of maladministration.

[bkk_mike]

I think we need more information...

Are you, yourself British by descent?

If so, your child is not automatically British, although if you lived in the UK for a 3 year period prior to the birth of the child (with no more than 270 days out of the country in those 3 years), then it should be an entitlement (i.e. automatic, not discretionary), but you'll have more forms to fill in.

If you're British by anything other than descent, i.e. born there, or by adoption, or by registration, etc. - then your child is automatically British, and you just need to do a regular child passport application.

If, on the other hand, it's a stepchild, it's normally an additional visa application, additional fee, and it will generally be granted/refused on the basis of the mother's application. (If it's a stepchild, you'll either need the biological parent's permission, or some proof of the mother's sole custody. - basically the same as you need to get the child a Thai passport without the biological father's approval.) Once you're in the UK for 6 months, you can start the adoption process, and once that's complete, the stepchild can get a British passport.

For the bank statements, I have seen a student visa renewal application FAIL because they were printouts from the Internet Banking website (with the bank logo, addresses, etc.), and that was given as THE reason it failed. The visa was granted on appeal, but we had to pay for paper statements from the bank covering the period used in the original application. The UK government actually tells students on their website to NOT bank with banks that do not give the option of paper statements for exactly that reason.

I'm pretty sure your Excel statements won't be valid without some sort of covering letter from the bank on the bank's stationery.

You can't apply for ILR from outside of the UK.

If you've previously been resident in the UK, and had ILR, but have lost the passport with the ILR stamp, and been out of the country less than two years, you can apply for ILE from outside the country (worst VISA design EVER, but it means the same as ILR).

Assuming your wife hasn't lived in the UK before, you want a standard settlement visa application for your wife as your spouse. For that, nowadays, you need to show a reasonable income, or a huge amount in the bank. (assets other than money in a bank are not taken into account - so people without the income, i.e. people who are retired, or housewives of well-paid foreign husbands, or simply people who are working in poor countries on what would be a low income in the UK, have had to do absurd things like mortgage a property they own outright in order to have enough money in the bank for the visa, then once the visa is granted use the money to pay back the mortgage, as the income of the foreign spouse is NOT taken into account).

Edited October 15, 2013 by bkk_mike

[bkk_mike]

Are you, yourself British by descent?

If so, your child is not automatically British, although if you lived in the UK for a 3 year period prior to the birth of the child (with no more than 270 days out of the country in those 3 years), then it should be an entitlement (i.e. automatic, not discretionary), but you'll have more forms to fill in.

Sorry - just realised the 3 years in the UK bit only applies if you're in a commonwealth country, which obviously doesn't include Thailand.

i.e. It's back to being discretionary as to whether they'll let you register the child as British or not, not an entitlement.

If they don't you're back to applying for an expensive visa with the child as a Thai national with a British parent.

One thing, the child would be allowed to be registered as British as the child of a person that is British by descent, once they've been in the UK for 3 years (assuming they're still under 18 at that point), so depending on your timing, that might avoid an ILR application for the child...

[nottarf]

I was born in England and both of my parents were born in the UK. I have an UK passport.

My daughter aged 3 was born in Thailand.

She holds both a Thai and British birth certificate and a Thai pasport.

Her British passport states under the heading “nationality” British Citizen.

(see marked ******* below)

As I am British because I was born there, I am not in the category of British by descent, is that correct?

Bank statements, I have now requested from my bank ‘paper’ statements instead of relying on ‘on-line’.

Yes, we will be applying for a spouse visa and then after 5 years an ILR application will be lodged.

*******

This is one of the questions I have asked the UKBA to answer, you will be aware in reading this thread that I have involved my MP in this matter as the UKBA just have not replied.

In my letter to UKBA:

“If your parent(s) are British and you're born outside what is called a 'qualifying territory’, which I assume Thailand is, then you will be British by descent. That means that you do not pass that citizenship on by automatic right to your children, although you may apply for citizenship.”

My daughter’s birth certificate was issued by the British Embassy in Bangkok on 22 December 2009.

This certificate states: 4. Claim to Citizenship S2(1)(a) British Nationality Act 1981

A long time away I know but if she became a mother would her child be British?

Does my daughter need to apply for British citizenship?