Salute to the Canadian Miltary

[ToddWeston]

Canada has appointed an openly gay Anglican as Chaplain General.

http://globalnews.ca/news/829014/canadas-new-military-chaplain-knows-all-about-acceptance/

[LeCharivari]

I have very mixed feelings about this.

While I support his views and his appointment I have to question whether it was because he was the best person for the job regardless of his sexual preference or whether that actually played a part in his appointment and he was appointed not in spite of it but, at least in part, because of it. One of the reasons I have some doubts is that he and the military saw fit to make a point of it and to raise the issue themselves immediately after his appointment.

To me this smacks of positive discrimination and being seen to be politically correct, much as is making an issue of having senior officers who are muslim, or from other religious and ethnic minorities does. I firmly believe that if you have to make a point of not discriminating by highlighting or promoting those from minorities then you are simply highlighting that those minorities aren't fully integrated and that they are still seen as "different" and their participation is to be "encouraged".

I know this view may shake some people's feathers here and could be seen as "anti-gay" by some, but I really don't see that it is necessarily a good thing either for the Canadian military (which should be the first and only priority in any military appointment) or for gays (which should not even be a consideration here).

[ToddWeston]

Fair point Lec.

I'd like to add the Tory's are currently in power and PM Harper is very right wing, all of the Ministers are hand picked by him and the Defence Minister is also extremely right wing, he asked the Governor General to start to wear the military uniform at more public engagements. This Goverment also put the "Royal" back in all departments of the military.

My point is they are old school and I reckon the General may have been chosen for his qualifications over his sexual orientation. The other political parties are to the left and I could definately see them pulling that type of political stunt.

It was interesting the media didn't pounce on this as most just reported a new chaplain from the east coast and not his sexuality.

[onthemoon]

I have very mixed feelings about this.

While I support his views and his appointment I have to question whether it was because he was the best person for the job regardless of his sexual preference or whether that actually played a part in his appointment and he was appointed not in spite of it but, at least in part, because of it. One of the reasons I have some doubts is that he and the military saw fit to make a point of it and to raise the issue themselves immediately after his appointment.

To me this smacks of positive discrimination and being seen to be politically correct, much as is making an issue of having senior officers who are muslim, or from other religious and ethnic minorities does. I firmly believe that if you have to make a point of not discriminating by highlighting or promoting those from minorities then you are simply highlighting that those minorities aren't fully integrated and that they are still seen as "different" and their participation is to be "encouraged".

I know this view may shake some people's feathers here and could be seen as "anti-gay" by some, but I really don't see that it is necessarily a good thing either for the Canadian military (which should be the first and only priority in any military appointment) or for gays (which should not even be a consideration here).

I don't know Canadian politics, but I think you are being negative about something that should be celebrated.

[ToddWeston]

I don't think the comment was negative at all. I think Lec brings a valid point that positive discrimination exists and should we encourage it just for the hooray moment or is it simpy a fade and what damage does it do long term.

Canada's largest Province has a Premier who is gay, the Federal Goverment is Conservative/Tory their supporters generally wouldn't back anything that isn't the 2.2 kids and the big house in suburbia so IMO they simply chose the best person.

Maybe another twist to this would be what other countries would promote their top General Chaplain who is openly gay ?

[sustento]

I think LeC's point is sound. The only question that needs asking is is he the best man for the job? When we have a world where someone's sexuality is irrelevant then we have made the main advance.

Edited October 12, 2013 by sustento

[Scott]

May positive discrimination be our biggest problem. It's not been a big problem in the past, and I don't think it will be for a very long time.

[LeCharivari]

May positive discrimination be our biggest problem. It's not been a big problem in the past, and I don't think it will be for a very long time.

I agree - we do have far bigger problems and issues, but I'm not talking about our "problems" generally but specifically about positive discrimination in the military where it has been a problem in the past and where it continues to be one ...

and as being "politically correct" becomes more of an issue generally, which it has not been in the past, I think that it is becoming an issue for gays generally just as it has become an issue for ethnic and religious minorities in many areas where there is both motivation and, in some cases, legislation to ensure that minorities of all descriptions are visibly represented even where they cannot justify their position by their individual merits.

Edited October 13, 2013 by LeCharivari

[LeCharivari]

I don't know Canadian politics, but I think you are being negative about something that should be celebrated.

I don't see what's to be "celebrated" - in fact any idea that I should be "celebrating" someone's appointment just because we have something in common by an accident of birth is something I find rather abhorrent.

To me that would be either setting a double standard or supporting discrimination - if I were to celebrate his appointment just because he's gay that would seem to justify someone who is homophobic saying (about another appointee) "thank God he's not gay", a racist saying "thank God he's white", etc. I don't think you can have it both ways.

Progress, as Sustento intimated, will be when someone's gender, sexual preference and ethnic background are irrelevant and their individual merits are the only criteria.

[LeCharivari]

Fair point Lec.

I'd like to add the Tory's are currently in power and PM Harper is very right wing, all of the Ministers are hand picked by him and the Defence Minister is also extremely right wing, he asked the Governor General to start to wear the military uniform at more public engagements. This Goverment also put the "Royal" back in all departments of the military.

My point is they are old school and I reckon the General may have been chosen for his qualifications over his sexual orientation. The other political parties are to the left and I could definately see them pulling that type of political stunt.

It was interesting the media didn't pounce on this as most just reported a new chaplain from the east coast and not his sexuality.

As I said from the start I have very mixed feelings about this appointment, and not only from a gay perspective - although that is obviously my main interest in this forum.

There are a number of issues over his appointment, and particularly over his "qualifications".

Most obviously he is another Anglican, like his predecessor. Up until the mid 90's Canada had two Chaplains General (one Catholic and one Protestant); since then the one Chaplain General has represented all faiths (the Chaplain Branch march was changed from Onward Christian Soldiers to Ode to Joy as a consequence) and Canadian Chaplains General have previously reflected that, being both Catholics and Protestants. Anglicans now predominate, however, although Anglicans only make up some 6% of the population while Catholics make up nearly half.

Rather than being the "ideal" person for the post he was the best qualified as a staff officer, having been on the Chaplain General's staff for the past decade. His operational experience, however, can only be described at best as "limited" - not crucial for a non-combatant, but in the case of a chaplain whose role is not only to give spiritual guidance but increasingly to give and co-ordinate support to those suffering from combat stress it is difficult to see how someone who hasn't "been there" but who wears the uniform can be accepted by those who have. The vast majority of the Canadian military have served in Croatia, Bosnia and Afghanistan, while Brigadier Fletcher's only "operational" service has been in Cyprus with UNFICYP, as chaplain with the PPCLI over twenty years ago - hardly something which will inspire confidence and trust.

As the editor of Esprit de Corps, Canada's unofficial but approved military magazine, wrote recently: "most Canadian service members resent the “politically correct” policies of an out of touch headquarters staff....It’s so removed from what the guys are facing over in Afghanistan..."

[ToddWeston]

Fair point Lec.

I'd like to add the Tory's are currently in power and PM Harper is very right wing, all of the Ministers are hand picked by him and the Defence Minister is also extremely right wing, he asked the Governor General to start to wear the military uniform at more public engagements. This Goverment also put the "Royal" back in all departments of the military.

My point is they are old school and I reckon the General may have been chosen for his qualifications over his sexual orientation. The other political parties are to the left and I could definately see them pulling that type of political stunt.

It was interesting the media didn't pounce on this as most just reported a new chaplain from the east coast and not his sexuality.

As I said from the start I have very mixed feelings about this appointment, and not only from a gay perspective - although that is obviously my main interest in this forum.

There are a number of issues over his appointment, and particularly over his "qualifications".

Most obviously he is another Anglican, like his predecessor. Up until the mid 90's Canada had two Chaplains General (one Catholic and one Protestant); since then the one Chaplain General has represented all faiths (the Chaplain Branch march was changed from Onward Christian Soldiers to Ode to Joy as a consequence) and Canadian Chaplains General have previously reflected that, being both Catholics and Protestants. Anglicans now predominate, however, although Anglicans only make up some 6% of the population while Catholics make up nearly half.

Rather than being the "ideal" person for the post he was the best qualified as a staff officer, having been on the Chaplain General's staff for the past decade. His operational experience, however, can only be described at best as "limited" - not crucial for a non-combatant, but in the case of a chaplain whose role is not only to give spiritual guidance but increasingly to give and co-ordinate support to those suffering from combat stress it is difficult to see how someone who hasn't "been there" but who wears the uniform can be accepted by those who have. The vast majority of the Canadian military have served in Croatia, Bosnia and Afghanistan, while Brigadier Fletcher's only "operational" service has been in Cyprus with UNFICYP, as chaplain with the PPCLI over twenty years ago - hardly something which will inspire confidence and trust.

As the editor of Esprit de Corps, Canada's unofficial but approved military magazine, wrote recently: "most Canadian service members resent the politically correct policies of an out of touch headquarters staff....Its so removed from what the guys are facing over in Afghanistan..."

Thank you, as you know our military is small and the last major operation was probably WWII the rest have been much smaller forces deployed, but I'm with you that his front line service should have been more.

Small point - The Anglican Church numbers may seem small but they are still very strong in certain parts of Canada especially to use a very old term Upper Canada and the East Coast, also a large proportion of the members of the United Church are Anglican - I have many family who were born Anglican but attend the United Church but they still refer to themselves Anglican and refer to the other as Anglican Light.

Not to get into domestic policy for fear of offending - but Toronto WASP's still control a huge amount of power - the old boys network is alive and well so he must have networked very well to get the position.