Another tragic expat suicide

[Tmymaimee]

Wouldn't it be fair to say that some of those people who chose to end their life were the ultimate cause of their own depression based on the shortcuts, behavioural patterns and attitudes they exhibited in their normal life? For example, someone who is a constant freeloader or a chronic complainer will end up without any friends. Or someone choosing to take on the financial burden of an Issan woman and her Thai children while he chose to avoid an education and today has limited job prospects.

Yes, I would agree that its a tragedy when someone close to you dies unexpectedly but at the same time, people have to realize the consequences of their actions, even if those actions such as skipping grade school or disrespecting authority end up with very long term consequences that ultimately result in zero options and you choose to kill yourself.

[davidst01]

Wouldn't it be fair to say that some of those people who chose to end their life were the ultimate cause of their own depression based on the shortcuts, behavioural patterns and attitudes they exhibited in their normal life? For example, someone who is a constant freeloader or a chronic complainer will end up without any friends. Or someone choosing to take on the financial burden of an Issan woman and her Thai children while he chose to avoid an education and today has limited job prospects.

Yes, I would agree that its a tragedy when someone close to you dies unexpectedly but at the same time, people have to realize the consequences of their actions, even if those actions such as skipping grade school or disrespecting authority end up with very long term consequences that ultimately result in zero options and you choose to kill yourself.

What your saying might be true for 'some of these people...' However, in other circumstances, it might not be true. A lot of different things can trigger depression and suicide and thus its best not to generalise.

If someones mind is in a bad state its important for this person to seek help and remember the concept of impermanence. Nothing in life is permanent- not even suicidal thoughts which can be changed with help.

[kimbathewhitelion]

Wouldn't it be fair to say that some of those people who chose to end their life were the ultimate cause of their own depression based on the shortcuts, behavioural patterns and attitudes they exhibited in their normal life? For example, someone who is a constant freeloader or a chronic complainer will end up without any friends. Or someone choosing to take on the financial burden of an Issan woman and her Thai children while he chose to avoid an education and today has limited job prospects.

Yes, I would agree that its a tragedy when someone close to you dies unexpectedly but at the same time, people have to realize the consequences of their actions, even if those actions such as skipping grade school or disrespecting authority end up with very long term consequences that ultimately result in zero options and you choose to kill yourself.

What your saying might be true for 'some of these people...' However, in other circumstances, it might not be true. A lot of different things can trigger depression and suicide and thus its best not to generalise.

If someones mind is in a bad state its important for this person to seek help and remember the concept of impermanence. Nothing in life is permanent- not even suicidal thoughts which can be changed with help.

I do agree to a point but what would "help" associate as? A Shrink, a social worker, the word in itself is part of the corporate BS...and then depression.

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[ghworker2010]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715174-british-mans-suicide-at-pattaya-condominium/?utm_source=newsletter-20140331-0756&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

RIP british man. Please seek help if you are feeling down in the dumps. Thoughts are impermanent

[ABCer]

Not every suicide is tragic.

Not every suicide can or should be prevented.

Not every medication is a cure.

Not every trained mental health practitioner is right.

If/when people ask for help - help the best you can.

If/when people do not ask for help - leave them alone.

This is the best policy I know.

Time for the RIP squad - they will help the guy.

[baneko]

I would definately avoid Pattaya if suicidal. Having said that if you tell them in Thai that you know the score. They cant get away with the normal bs they give to first timers they wont give you the time of day.

RIP to the man involved.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Kitsune]

it's precisely when I go to the health forum that I want to kill myself, truly.

[Ulysses G.]

Not every suicide is tragic.

A fellow that I know killed himself after years of strokes and other major health problems. He could not walk or talk so that it could be understood. On top of that,he did not have enough money to take care of himself any more. I don't blame him. Unless one is religious, it seems like the best of some very bad choices for some people.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Kitsune]

Not every suicide is tragic.

A fellow that I know killed himself after years of strokes and other major health problems. He could not walk or talk so that it could be understood. On top of that,he did not have enough money to take care of himself any more. I don't blame him. Unless one is religious, it seems like the best of some very bad choices for some people.

The suicide started years ago,when he embraced his diet.

He made the choice day after days

[Water Buffalo]

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So sad that this topic has turned into what the therapeutic values of an issan Hooker is to depressed suicidal fellow human being. says a lot I guess.

I don't remember hearing the word 'Issan' mentioned.

[Thongkorn]

I agree with OP.

My 2 cents worth is that if I were to be contemplating such a thing I would want to be sure that the alternative (i.e. death) is going to be any better...

To anyone who might have suicidal thoughts my advice is to get on a bus to Pattaya. Go to a bar on beach road and sit at a table with a clear view to the ocean. Order a beer for yourself and your new bar girl (friend) and have her stroke your leg. If this doesn't raise your self esteem, I don't know what will.

Have you ever been there, when every thing seems to go against you, and every body hates you. You cannot see a way out of your depression. Wish it was so easy to do as you sagest. You cannot sleep, eat, you don't take care of yourself. its a slippery slope. I have sympathy for them i have been there. No amount of talking seems to help. All anyone can do for people with depression and the weight of the world on there shoulders is Just be there for them. Hope he has found peace now.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Thongkorn

[ABCer]

I agree with OP.

My 2 cents worth is that if I were to be contemplating such a thing I would want to be sure that the alternative (i.e. death) is going to be any better...

To anyone who might have suicidal thoughts my advice is to get on a bus to Pattaya. Go to a bar on beach road and sit at a table with a clear view to the ocean. Order a beer for yourself and your new bar girl (friend) and have her stroke your leg. If this doesn't raise your self esteem, I don't know what will.

Have you ever been there, when every thing seems to go against you, and every body hates you. You cannot see a way out of your depression. Wish it was so easy to do as you sagest. You cannot sleep, eat, you don't take care of yourself. its a slippery slope. I have sympathy for them i have been there. No amount of talking seems to help. All anyone can do for people with depression and the weight of the world on there shoulders is Just be there for them. Hope he has found peace now.

Thongkorn, you sound like a compassionate person. I like your post.

But you only focus on the outside influences. Been there, done that. All the factors you list are circumstantial. They come and go.

I am not an extravert. Have enough friends, but do not really need them. Like to talk and many find it entertaining, but I really do not need the audience. I am sort of 'self-sufficient'.

Had a bad heart attack. Now very limited in my capabilities compared to my younger years. Add on arthritis, extra weight etc.

But I still have as much fun as I can master including some sailing, travel, driving a car, reading, cooking etc. In short - no complaints yet.

And here is the crunch: one day (as late as possible) I'll put a bullet through my head.

Reason? - I decide when, where and how I die. I believe the quality of life is more important than longevity.

I am 73 now. Had a very interesting life. I am not suicidal. You may call me a control freak. Don't want to end up a burden in a chair.

Now tell me which Mental Health Practitioner or a friend can help me (in due time)?

Considering all above I do not need help. And I do not need RIP blessings either.

I write this only to stop some people to think I am a heartless cruel animal because of my previous post.

Cheers.

[wym]

Yes and we should be able to get help with executing this final decision when the time comes. Too few jurisdictions are OK with that.

[IMA_FARANG]

My father died at age 89.

he had been in a wheelchair for 5 years before that,

In the end he had lost control of his bladder ..... his wife had to take him to the bathroom and lift him off and on of his wheelchair.

He had a clock mechanism that rotated his medicine dispenser. Every half hour it rotated to whatever pills he had to take in that half hour,

He took about 15 pills a day .... some to counteract the effects of other pills he had to take.

When he finally was in the hospital for the last time he was totally paralyzed from a stroke, except for his left hand.

The doctor's said he was "confused" because he would use his left hand to remove the oxygen tube from his throat.

"Confused" ..... I don't think so.

His liver, kidneys, and heart gave out together just one day before his 90th birthday.

If I ever get to such a state, I hope I have the courage to be as "confused" as my father was then.

But until then .... life is still good.

[IMA_FARANG]

Deleted ..... double posted.

Edited April 1, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[Donnie Brasco]

I agree with OP.

My 2 cents worth is that if I were to be contemplating such a thing I would want to be sure that the alternative (i.e. death) is going to be any better...

To anyone who might have suicidal thoughts my advice is to get on a bus to Pattaya. Go to a bar on beach road and sit at a table with a clear view to the ocean. Order a beer for yourself and your new bar girl (friend) and have her stroke your leg. If this doesn't raise your self esteem, I don't know what will.

First the fleeting boost in self esteem that comes with a bar girl rubbing his leg and professing eternal love.

Then the deflation of self esteem that comes with her emptying his wallet and running off with the next customer.

Just what a vulnerable lonely man needs at that point of his life.

My advice is to get on a bus AWAY FROM Pattaya.

I kind of agree with this line of therapy.

It may actually work for some . . . . . . until the money runs out. And then, no more BG on thigh and no more BG on shoulders.

Here's another way.

Go to Patts if you must. Or any farang bar or any succession of foreigners and simply ask for help.

Some kind soul will eventually help.

No, you won't get your house back. (Her family would never approve) You won't get your tilac back. (You are no longer part of her life plan) You won't even get your kids back (They were gone from birth) So don't burden the sympathetic stranger with THAT beyond maybe getting it off your chest (with an apology for doing so because, and you know it, we've all heard it a million times before)

The farang guy in the bar or somebody else you meet in the street or under the bridge on the same day you decided to do this will show you your next step.

Why will this happen ? Kindheartedness, serendipity, schadenfreude, boredom, sympathy, schedule gap, nothing better to do etc.

He may suggest you go to a temple, a church, a mosque, an embassy, going to help someone even worse off, maybe another bar . . . . . where he knows a guy who . . . . . Etc.

Soon after that, if you haven't done it already, you need to stop drinking.

You need to stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Remember, you are thinking of ending your life so what have you got to lose ?

You don't really need to kill yourself unless you are sure that the only purpose left to your life must be to focus the majority of the expat community on no frills introspection and asking themselves what they are really doing here.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[Ulysses G.]

Not every suicide is tragic.

A fellow that I know killed himself after years of strokes and other major health problems. He could not walk or talk so that it could be understood. On top of that,he did not have enough money to take care of himself any more. I don't blame him. Unless one is religious, it seems like the best of some very bad choices for some people.

The suicide started years ago,when he embraced his diet.

He made the choice day after days

That means that everyone who smokes, drinks or takes drugs is committing suicide too. IMO, unless someone knows that they will die for sure from bad habits - and almost no one does - they are not committing suicide.

[Scarpolo]

So sad that this topic has turned into what the therapeutic values of an issan Hooker is to depressed suicidal fellow human being. says a lot I guess.

Since it seems to me that a lot of farang suicides here in Thailand are caused by failed " relationships" with Isan hookers, it would stand to reason that perhaps they could also be the solution to stopping these suicides... :-)

Thai girls don't have to be hookers, there's tons of failed relationships with so called 'normal girls' some with excellent jobs. Hookers might be street smart and know how to play foreigner's for all they're worth, but just like blood pressure there are nice, intelligent silent killers out there, just waiting for Mr. Right.

thats why I have to laugh everytime someone puts down a sex worker,

in many ways, they are self employed business people, and can live with themselves because they put in a days work,

cant help but respect them

[GinBoy2]

Sorry if I'm missing something here (I admit I skimmed through a lot of the detritus posts) but how did this kinda end up as a bar girl centered thread. As far as I could tell from the news report there was no mention of the possible reasons for this guy taking his own life, let alone failed/unrequited/miserable isaan bargirl relationship/sex. People commit suicide for multitudes of reasons, many of which if viewed from the outside seem unfathomable if not just plain crazy. Which is the point, suicide affects people who are at that moment in their lives tend to be mentally troubled. I remember some years back a reasonably successful radio host in San Francisco jumped off the GGB to his death. Created untold consternation in the local press as to 'Why'. I don't believe anyone can understand what these people are going through, and the advice of seeking help (I think a support org in BKK was mentioned) is key getting the mind back onto the straight and narrow. Thailand statistics for suicide in Thailand are pretty good, 7.8 per 100,000, vs the global leader Greenland at a whopping 83 per 100,000, so maybe life here isn't so bad, just recognize the signs and get help, or if you see it in a friend help them to get help.

OK, now y'all can get back to the bargirl discussion

[plachon]

For all those tempted to offer advice on this thread to those who are potentially suicidal or just depressed, my humble suggestion is to not offer advice at all to such persons, but just give them a bit of time and listen to them. For most people, having someone who will listen to them when they have a black period in their lives, whether writing online, telephone or in person, is infinitely more valuable than anyone's advice, however well meant.