Dynamic Range improvement

[skippybangkok]

Current low end Nikon 3100 has lower dynamic range, I believe about 11 EV @ ISO 100. I love photography and hate the blow outs in digital photography, and thinking hard about D800 which has 14.

Anyone know if it will be a substantial improvement or marginal ( if its a log scale, 11 to 14 would be significant, if linear, maybe not ? )

Thx

[sunshine51]

You may be surprised at the D800's cost but if you have the $$$...go for it.

You will also need "proper" glass (lenses) to attach to the body so you get

full advantage of what the D800 will do. Remember the 800 is a full frame

camera vice DX format (APS-C). On the other hand you may want to look

at the D7000/7100...both in DX format and very good cameras at "reasonable"

prices. Either way the 800, 7000/7100 has what you're looking for in dyn

range. Forget the D600 has problems & the D610, which has been launched

to solve the D600's problems is way too dam_n expensive for what it is.

You may also want to have a look at the DPReview website for the cameras

I've listed and do some comparisons before you buy.

Hope this helps you in your quest. Good luck.

[MJP]

You may be surprised at the D800's cost but if you have the $$$...go for it.

You will also need "proper" glass (lenses) to attach to the body so you get

full advantage of what the D800 will do. Remember the 800 is a full frame

camera vice DX format (APS-C). On the other hand you may want to look

at the D7000/7100...both in DX format and very good cameras at "reasonable"

prices. Either way the 800, 7000/7100 has what you're looking for in dyn

range. Forget the D600 has problems & the D610, which has been launched

to solve the D600's problems is way too dam_n expensive for what it is.

You may also want to have a look at the DPReview website for the cameras

I've listed and do some comparisons before you buy.

Hope this helps you in your quest. Good luck.

Oh yes, can get very expensive. I priced up a Nikon D800e kit with the Nikkor Trinity a 50mm and the 85mm f1.4 plus a few bits and pieces and it rolls in at around £9000.

In Thailand it is cheaper, but I've been warned off buying here, grey market, used sold as new, warranty issues etc.

I'm sticking with Pentax because I am a poor man. Just wish Ricoh would finally make a full frame, I'd buy that in an instant.

Although saying that . . . http://www.pentaxforums.com/news/sony-a7-first-affordable-pentax-full-frame.html

Just think there may be other full frame options out there.

Edited October 17, 2013 by MJP

[sunshine51]

Here's a wonderful link on "full frame" vs all other "frames"!

I mean...what is full frame in 35mm compared to full frame

in 2-1/4? or full frame in 6x7? Hah...we've been had! But

it's been a nice...albeit expensive way...to have been had.

http://www.rocktheshotforum.com/2012/04/20/full-frames-dirty-little-secret/

[MJP]

Here's a wonderful link on "full frame" vs all other "frames"!

I mean...what is full frame in 35mm compared to full frame

in 2-1/4? or full frame in 6x7? Hah...we've been had! But

it's been a nice...albeit expensive way...to have been had.

http://www.rocktheshotforum.com/2012/04/20/full-frames-dirty-little-secret/

The MF Pentax 645D MkII should be out soon. Along with my bankruptcy proceedings.

I think the DSLR market is going the way of full frame. I just wish Pentax would keep up. I mean if Sony can stick a FF sensor in the RX1, surely Pentax could chuck one in the K-3?

Give me, get me, I want!

[sunshine51]

I can see it now...it's gonna be like that old pens size thing...

My sensor's bigger than your sensor...Oh Yeah! Prove it!

But you're right MJP...it's all gonna go FX in the near future

I too believe. Sad though...but a great marketing scam for

the manufacturers.

40 MP...can't really justify sticking the camera in your pocket

& go walkabout though. I have an H4D-50...that's 50MP...

not that heavy but heavy nonetheless. And Hassie sent me

an email stating that if I wanted to 'upgrade" to their new H5D

they'd give me 3.5K Euro in trade in. <deleted>.

Mind you...I reckon we've deviated from skippybangkok's

OP...He was just asking for help in cameras with better

dynamic range than his current D3100...hope he doesn't

mind our digressions.

[MJP]

I can see it now...it's gonna be like that old pens size thing...

My sensor's bigger than your sensor...Oh Yeah! Prove it!

But you're right MJP...it's all gonna go FX in the near future

I too believe. Sad though...but a great marketing scam for

the manufacturers.

40 MP...can't really justify sticking the camera in your pocket

& go walkabout though. I have an H4D-50...that's 50MP...

not that heavy but heavy nonetheless. And Hassie sent me

an email stating that if I wanted to 'upgrade" to their new H5D

they'd give me 3.5K Euro in trade in. <deleted>.

Mind you...I reckon we've deviated from skippybangkok's

OP...He was just asking for help in cameras with better

dynamic range than his current D3100...hope he doesn't

mind our digressions.

I'm sure he won't!

Perhaps I can convert him to being a Pentaxian.

[sunshine51]

^ Have at it MJP...have at it! Pentax do make a fine camera

I must admit. That link on the Sony A7 is good info too;

especially the A7r.

[fimgirl]

The Sony A7r grabs my attention. I've been gagging for a FF digital body for my M mount and general legacy lenses without going to the cost and trauma's of Leica M bodies. If the real time tests stack up I'll be in.

[MJP]

The Sony A7r grabs my attention. I've been gagging for a FF digital body for my M mount and general legacy lenses without going to the cost and trauma's of Leica M bodies. If the real time tests stack up I'll be in.

Gonna be around £1600 apparently! Doesn't need optical correction for K-mount adapter either. Winner!

Yes, FF sensor for legacy glass is where I'm coming from too.

[sunshine51]

The Sony A7r grabs my attention. I've been gagging for a FF digital body for my M mount and general legacy lenses without going to the cost and trauma's of Leica M bodies. If the real time tests stack up I'll be in.

Hi Fimgirl...

With Leica it's not only the $$$ for the body...it's the $$$$$$$$ for the lenses.

If you want the electronic viewfinder on the "M"...that's more $$$$ and I suspect

you will? Mind you...that A7r has caught my attention also...Cheers!

[skippybangkok]

I mind the digression

Thx guys. I looked at dxomark. com which has a very analytical.

I looked at canon D5, build not same as Nikon and the above web, it's performance was worse. Will sell my old camera, so incrementally should not be too painful. Anyone want a 3100 with a good lens ?

Still same question - improving dynamic range from 11 to 14, will that be significant ?

I used to shoot film (velvia), and going digital had its benefits, but image quality and dynamic range was bit one of them ( digital is better for macro )

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Edited October 18, 2013 by skippybangkok

[MJP]

Skip, dunno really, go and try a couple out if you're changing brand. You can get the Pentax K-5 IIs for cheap cheap now (DR of 14.1 EVS), I highly recommend this DSLR. Good range of prime lenses and can use the legacy K-mount and M42 glass (I've got lenses from the 1950's USSR!) Nikon D5200 also worth a look.

If you're in the Roi-Et area you're welcome to come round and try out my Pentax kit anytime.

[skippybangkok]

Skip, dunno really, go and try a couple out if you're changing brand. You can get the Pentax K-5 IIs for cheap cheap now (DR of 14.1 EVS), I highly recommend this DSLR. Good range of prime lenses and can use the legacy K-mount and M42 glass (I've got lenses from the 1950's USSR!) Nikon D5200 also worth a look.

If you're in the Roi-Et area you're welcome to come round and try out my Pentax kit anytime.

Thanks MJP... Will take a look at it. Yes can move to any brand as it's a whole change. Did not like cannon d5, and tests on dxomark were low for D5.

I don't care for more pixels, do care for more dynamic range, more the better

Not in Roi et, but hope we catch up one day. I am in BKK

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited October 18, 2013 by skippybangkok

[MJP]

Skip, dunno really, go and try a couple out if you're changing brand. You can get the Pentax K-5 IIs for cheap cheap now (DR of 14.1 EVS), I highly recommend this DSLR. Good range of prime lenses and can use the legacy K-mount and M42 glass (I've got lenses from the 1950's USSR!) Nikon D5200 also worth a look.

If you're in the Roi-Et area you're welcome to come round and try out my Pentax kit anytime.

Thanks MJP... Will take a look at it. Yes can move to any brand as it's a whole change. Did not like cannon d5, and tests on dxomark were low for D5.

I don't care for more pixels, do care for more dynamic range, more the better

Not in Roi et, but hope we catch up one day. I am in BKK

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

K-5 IIs is ideal for you. 14.1 Evs and 16MP on APS-C.

Go round to Zoomcamera, they have them there for 32,000 Baht. http://www.zoomcamera.net/Digital-Camera/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A5%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%88%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A5-Pentax/Pentax-K-5-Iis-body.html

http://www.zoomcamera.net/

Edited October 18, 2013 by MJP

[Fiddlesticks]

Hi skippybangkok - I think throwing $$$ at the problem of blown highlights and shadows is not the best approach. Even with the very good dynamic range of the 800, you are still going to run into many situations where the dynamic range is going to be outside of your cameras ability. Perhaps you should practice using techniques such as blending images or using neutral density filters to deal with the dynamic range. I use a Canon 5DMK2 which has a very good dynamic range and I still need to use blending and filters to adapt to the dynamic range of scenes I run across all the time.

[skippybangkok]

Hi skippybangkok - I think throwing $$$ at the problem of blown highlights and shadows is not the best approach. Even with the very good dynamic range of the 800, you are still going to run into many situations where the dynamic range is going to be outside of your cameras ability. Perhaps you should practice using techniques such as blending images or using neutral density filters to deal with the dynamic range. I use a Canon 5DMK2 which has a very good dynamic range and I still need to use blending and filters to adapt to the dynamic range of scenes I run across all the time.

Yeh - wiping egg off face your right in terms of filters , just read on Ken Rockwell site too. Really need to re think this

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[skippybangkok]

Recon going for D610....

same performance as D800, 30% cheaper. Forgot i have strobes and some other nikon paraphernalia, which i would have to ditch if use Pentax. Seems Pentax has great DR, but similar low light performance to D7100 ( i like night shots too ).

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/915%7C0/(brand)/Nikon/(appareil2)/865%7C0/(brand2)/Nikon/(appareil3)/830%7C0/(brand3)/Pentax

[MJP]

Recon going for D610....

same performance as D800, 30% cheaper. Forgot i have strobes and some other nikon paraphernalia, which i would have to ditch if use Pentax. Seems Pentax has great DR, but similar low light performance to D7100 ( i like night shots too ).

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/915%7C0/(brand)/Nikon/(appareil2)/865%7C0/(brand2)/Nikon/(appareil3)/830%7C0/(brand3)/Pentax

Go for it!

Not because of the 610, but the Nikon FX mount.

Once you start spending big on lenses you're stuck with that mount and I wish I could go to Nikon FX simply for the Nikkor Holy Trinity of 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 and the Nikkor 85mm f/1.4.

Good choice. When you get it, make sure they've sorted the dirty sensor problem reported in the D600.

Have a look at National Geographic photographer James Balog's work (he uses Nikon, the 14-24mm f/2.8 a lot). Also try and find a documentary called Chasing Ice. It's great stuff!

Edited October 20, 2013 by MJP

[skippybangkok]

Recon going for D610....

same performance as D800, 30% cheaper. Forgot i have strobes and some other nikon paraphernalia, which i would have to ditch if use Pentax. Seems Pentax has great DR, but similar low light performance to D7100 ( i like night shots too ).

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/915%7C0/(brand)/Nikon/(appareil2)/865%7C0/(brand2)/Nikon/(appareil3)/830%7C0/(brand3)/Pentax

Go for it!

Not because of the 610, but the Nikon FX mount.

Once you start spending big on lenses you're stuck with that mount and I wish I could go to Nikon FX simply for the Nikkor Holy Trinity of 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 and the Nikkor 85mm f/1.4.

Good choice. When you get it, make sure they've sorted the dirty sensor problem reported in the D600.

Have a look at National Geographic photographer James Balog's work (he uses Nikon, the 14-24mm f/2.8 a lot). Also try and find a documentary called Chasing Ice. It's great stuff!

Cheers and thanks for all your help. Yes, the Large format has an advantage with low light SNR, otherwise DX is fine too.

I have kinda settled on the 24-70 and maybe a good 50mm prime. Lens swapping is not my favourite past time, especially when traveling. Aparently the dust issue is now settled in the D610

hope to catch up one day, drop me a line when your un BKK ( i have never been to Roi-et : ) )

Edited October 21, 2013 by skippybangkok

[MJP]

Recon going for D610....

same performance as D800, 30% cheaper. Forgot i have strobes and some other nikon paraphernalia, which i would have to ditch if use Pentax. Seems Pentax has great DR, but similar low light performance to D7100 ( i like night shots too ).

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/915%7C0/(brand)/Nikon/(appareil2)/865%7C0/(brand2)/Nikon/(appareil3)/830%7C0/(brand3)/Pentax

Go for it!

Not because of the 610, but the Nikon FX mount.

Once you start spending big on lenses you're stuck with that mount and I wish I could go to Nikon FX simply for the Nikkor Holy Trinity of 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 and the Nikkor 85mm f/1.4.

Good choice. When you get it, make sure they've sorted the dirty sensor problem reported in the D600.

Have a look at National Geographic photographer James Balog's work (he uses Nikon, the 14-24mm f/2.8 a lot). Also try and find a documentary called Chasing Ice. It's great stuff!

Cheers and thanks for all your help. Yes, the Large format has an advantage with low light SNR, otherwise DX is fine too.

I have kinda settled on the 24-70 and maybe a good 50mm prime. Lens swapping is not my favourite past time, especially when traveling. Aparently the dust issue is now settled in the D610

hope to catch up one day, drop me a line when your un BKK ( i have never been to Roi-et : ) )

Enjoy high ISO shooting, you lucky devil.

Will do!

[sunshine51]

Recon going for D610....

same performance as D800, 30% cheaper. Forgot i have strobes and some other nikon paraphernalia, which i would have to ditch if use Pentax. Seems Pentax has great DR, but similar low light performance to D7100 ( i like night shots too ).

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/915%7C0/(brand)/Nikon/(appareil2)/865%7C0/(brand2)/Nikon/(appareil3)/830%7C0/(brand3)/Pentax

Go for it!

Not because of the 610, but the Nikon FX mount.

Once you start spending big on lenses you're stuck with that mount and I wish I could go to Nikon FX simply for the Nikkor Holy Trinity of 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 and the Nikkor 85mm f/1.4.

Good choice. When you get it, make sure they've sorted the dirty sensor problem reported in the D600.

Have a look at National Geographic photographer James Balog's work (he uses Nikon, the 14-24mm f/2.8 a lot). Also try and find a documentary called Chasing Ice. It's great stuff!

Passing info here...the D610 was a result of the dust & oil spot problem

of the D600. Nikon says the 610 solves that problem for good. However

owners of the "old" 600 are a bit chuffed because Nikon seems to be

stagnating on fixing the 600 for reasons only Nikon knows and 600 owners

suspect....read $$$$.

The 600/610 series works just like a D7K / D7K1 save for being FX...and

if you've ever used the D7K you're many steps ahead already.

[skippybangkok]

Enjoy high ISO shooting, you lucky devil.

Will do!

Will try . Not even sure can find D610 in Thailand yet ???

High ISO, according to DxoMark, up to ISO 900, not much difference, but beyond that the SNR / DR starts getting worse on DX format. I do like night shots.... look forward to it.