Amnesty bill change slammed

[Lite Beer]

Amnesty bill change slammed
The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- Critics and red shirts unhappy with plan to absolve all post-coup offenders

The proposed law to give a blanket amnesty to law offenders involved in the political conflict has been opposed by both the government's critics and its red-shirt supporters, albeit for different reasons.

Democrat MP Nipit Intarasombat said yesterday that MPs from the main opposition party would lead an anti-government rally once the government-sponsored amnesty bill is passed by Parliament.

Nipit said the draft approved by the Pheu Thai-dominated vetting committee on Friday would whitewash people convicted by court in many cases, including fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra in the Ratchadaphisek land deal and abuse of power case that led to Bt46 billion of his assets being seized. It would also absolve fugitive former interior minister Pracha Maleenont, convicted in the fire boats and trucks graft case.

Nipit is a legal expert. He has shown up many times at the anti-government rallies, including the one by the People's Army to Overthrow Thaksin Regime at Lumpini Park.

The House ad hoc committee vetting the amnesty bill on Friday voted to rewrite a clause to include as beneficiaries people facing legal action in cases stemming from post-coup investigations.

The 35-member vetting panel, dominated by MPs from the ruling coalition, voted to support a proposal by the panel's deputy chairman, Prayuth Siripanich, a Maha Sarakham MP and former deputy leader of the ruling Pheu Thai Party. He proposed that Article 3 of the bill should be rewritten so that the amnesty covers people accused of wrongdoing by a group or an organisation set up after the coup in September 2006.

Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva told members of his Democrat Party yesterday to make the public aware of how vicious the government was in trying to pass the amnesty law. He was speaking at a seminar to enhance the potential of the party's branches.

Abhisit called the proposal historic in its scope to offer amnesty to people who had committed crimes, including killing, shooting, burning and cheating. "Next week, I intend to work on exposing the corruption issue, to tell [Thai] society how dangerous it is and what are the impacts. The government should not say again that it will eradicate corruption because today the government has managed to issue a law to whitewash people who are corrupt," Abhisit said.

"The Democrats will definitely oppose this and we believe a lot of people are opposing this. We have announced our intention to work both inside and outside Parliament, but remain within the law," he said.

As per the proposal, in the Bt46 billion assets seizure case, fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra would be absolved and Thaksin could petition the court to return of money plus interest. Thais would have to pay Bt50 billion in total back to the person who cheated them, he alleged.

In February 2010, the court seized Bt46 billion of Thaksin's assets believed to have been earned from abuses of power.

The pro-government red-shirt leader, Thida Thavornseth, said the group disagreed with the draft and opposed giving amnesty to Abhisit, the prime minister in 2010, and his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban.

Pheu Thai MP Worachai Hema who proposed the original bill draft, said he would defend his version.

Pheu Thai MP Udomdej Rattanasatien, an adviser to the government whip, said the vetting committee must clarify to the public that all political conflicts were the consequences of the coup in 2006 and this law was aimed at restoring justice.

Nicha Hiranburana Thuvatham, the widow of General Romklao who was killed during the political riots in 2010, condemned the draft amnesty bill as an insult to those who had lost their lives in the political turmoil.

"If the government wants to give amnesty, it must ask the relatives of the victims first. The law passing process must be transparent and acceptable to all parties involved. Knowing the truth is the priority to getting over it. The most important thing is to know the truth first before we can see if we can allow amnesty," she said as she went to the Students' and People's Network for Thailand Reform's rally at the Urupong intersection yesterday.

Rally leader Uthai Yodmanee said while the group disagreed with the draft law it would not step up the rally yet. However, the group would continue its campaign and he expected more people to join the protest.

Suriyasai Katasila, said his network - the People's Assembly Reforming Thailand 2013 - would meet today to discuss the network's stance and movements towards the issue.

-- The Nation 2013-10-20

[NongKhaiKid]

" Another fine mess..." and it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people but for the fact it could seriously affect the whole country.

In an effort to get Thaksin and his money back PTP are prepared to grant amnesty to all which doesn't sit well with their red shirt supporters who want their version of justice over 2010 but forget they rioted and tried to burn Bkk to the ground.

Just how far will PTP be prepared to push this ? Thaksin's only priority is himself but what if a serious rift with the reds results and they turn on their political masters ? Will they swallow the approach " if you really love Mr. T and will do anything to get him back you'll accept this " ?

I'd love to see this government in a real bind having to deal with serious red protests against them but unfortunately this could have major consequences for the whole nation and of course how long would the army standby ?

[whybother]

He proposed that Article 3 of the bill should be rewritten so that the amnesty covers people accused of wrongdoing by a group or an organisation set up after the coup in September 2006.

Was the DSI set up post coup?

[Neilly]

Pheu Thai MP Udomdej Rattanasatien, an adviser to the government whip, said the vetting committee must clarify to the public that all political conflicts were the consequences of the coup in 2006 and this law was aimed at restoring justice.

How in hell can Mr T's dodgy land deal be considered "consequences of the coup in 2006"...what a load of utter BS

[ratcatcher]

Pheu Thai MP Udomdej Rattanasatien, an adviser to the government whip, said the vetting committee must clarify to the public that all political conflicts were the consequences of the coup in 2006 and this law was aimed at restoring justice.

How in hell can Mr T's dodgy land deal be considered "consequences of the coup in 2006"...what a load of utter BS

Always consider the source of the comment. Just another PT lapdog yapping.

[gl555]

You're in trouble when your enemies disagree with you.

You're f$#ked when your enemies AND your allies are against you.

Thaksin is such a cowardly piece of crap. He directs his cronies to whitewash his crimes while his idiot sister sits there like Prime Minister Barbie. You may love or hate Abhisit but at least this guy, who is facing murder charges, is going up against the very law that will free him. I have special contempt for the uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime. Morons.

[Tatsujin]

If this is indeed true, it's absolutely disgusting. I hope people are taking note but unfortunately they seem to be either blind to what is going on around them, or too dumb to care and to see the consequences.

[GeorgeO]

If this is indeed true, it's absolutely disgusting. I hope people are taking note but unfortunately they seem to be either blind to what is going on around them, or too dumb to care and to see the consequences.

As I have said on many occasions before, this stance by the PTP puppet government is extremely dangerous.

If this bill is pushed through with this unscrupulous change having been made at oversight committee level, then this country is going to move ever closer to civil war...!

[Siripon]

As predicted by the Democrats, the bill's contents were changed in the second reading to benefit red shirt leaders and Thaksin.

Will the red shirts protest against an amnesty to the army? Only those who lost relatives in the red riots.

Can the anti Thaksin forces muster enough numbers to halt the bill? Are the educated classes prepared to march on the streets and suffer a little discomfort? Probably not, the Maewong dam protest was their annual outing. But I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

The Democrats, their supporters and all those who oppose the authoritarian,inept and corrupt capitalists in this terrible government must take to the streets.

[realenglish1]

It is in the interest of all Thais Red and Yellow shirts to just forgive and forget. In so much as yellows are allowing red shirts in general amnesty then reds should allow yellows full amnesty as well.

In the scheme of things one man should not hold the country to a different standard

If you are going to forgive one then forgive all without exception Not for the red shirts not for the yellow shirts but for the good of the country as a who.

It is now 7 years that the fabric of society in Thailand has been ripped apart . It is time for all Thais to come together give each other a hug and move on

Otherwise this is becoming the war of the roses and a very sad state

[Baerboxer]

He proposed that Article 3 of the bill should be rewritten so that the amnesty covers people accused of wrongdoing by a group or an organisation set up after the coup in September 2006.

Was the DSI set up post coup?

Well spotted - and correct. The wording is very precise now, and the PTP guys will put emphasis on this. Thaksin was accused by an organization set up after the removal of Thaksin. So even though his crimes were criminal rather than political, and he's been convicted in one case, and has more serious criminal charges outstanding against him, and then all can be whitewashed under an amnesty in the name of reconciliation. The illegally issued passport and fugitive from justice issues will simply vanish too.

However, Abhisit and his mate have been charged by the prosecutor following an investigation and recommendation from the DSI - an organization in existence before the 2006 action to oust Thaksin from illegally holding on to power. So that won't be covered and they can be prosecuted as per the wishes of the people's government. Of course the DSI boss, who was part of the CRES executive will use the Nuremburg defense - "just following orders" which is exactly what he still does.

Very cunning attempt at whitewashing their bosses criminal activities whilst keeping their armed militia happy at the expense of political opponents.

[hellodolly]

Well after much searching I have found where this bill belongs along with the PTPredshirts. all though in this case it is funny because the red shirts are opposing it because it gives the government the right to set a precedent to stopping their illegal activities there by pulling there teeth.What is desperately needed in this country given the choices in existence today is a Government under Abhist with the same amount of power as the PTP enjoy now. Never begore has Thailand had such a wide split in government when one party had complete control with out any other party's support. With this much power one would think Thailand would be leaping ahead in leaps and bounds. But alas it has turned out to be at the command of a would be dictator. Finally I am a fan of Abhist because he is the best person for the job. I dislike some of his decisions. But his stance against terrorism is the mark of a great leader.

Edited October 20, 2013 by hellodolly

[Baerboxer]

It is in the interest of all Thais Red and Yellow shirts to just forgive and forget. In so much as yellows are allowing red shirts in general amnesty then reds should allow yellows full amnesty as well.

In the scheme of things one man should not hold the country to a different standard

If you are going to forgive one then forgive all without exception Not for the red shirts not for the yellow shirts but for the good of the country as a who.

It is now 7 years that the fabric of society in Thailand has been ripped apart . It is time for all Thais to come together give each other a hug and move on

Otherwise this is becoming the war of the roses and a very sad state

Yes it's sad. But reconciliation is very difficult when one man wants to run everything, as his own personal fiefdom, with no accountability and for an indefinite period. That man has a history of telling lies and enriching his own clan whilst delivering very little in return. How can reconciliation happen when someone like this is involved?

PTP have continually denied that amnesty and reconciliation was about Thaksin, and now as the Democrats predicted, they are changing the bill to benefit him. He's invested a considerable amount of money, time and effort into getting this government and certain people in position to do just that. Now he wants his ROI.

[Siripon]

He proposed that Article 3 of the bill should be rewritten so that the amnesty covers people accused of wrongdoing by a group or an organisation set up after the coup in September 2006.

Was the DSI set up post coup?

Well spotted - and correct. The wording is very precise now, and the PTP guys will put emphasis on this. Thaksin was accused by an organization set up after the removal of Thaksin. So even though his crimes were criminal rather than political, and he's been convicted in one case, and has more serious criminal charges outstanding against him, and then all can be whitewashed under an amnesty in the name of reconciliation. The illegally issued passport and fugitive from justice issues will simply vanish too.

However, Abhisit and his mate have been charged by the prosecutor following an investigation and recommendation from the DSI - an organization in existence before the 2006 action to oust Thaksin from illegally holding on to power. So that won't be covered and they can be prosecuted as per the wishes of the people's government. Of course the DSI boss, who was part of the CRES executive will use the Nuremburg defense - "just following orders" which is exactly what he still does.

Very cunning attempt at whitewashing their bosses criminal activities whilst keeping their armed militia happy at the expense of political opponents.

The 3 most serious charges Thaksin faces - the loan to Krisda Mahanakhon company, the Exim bank loan to Burma and policy corruption charges-changing to laws to benefit his own business, all happened prior the coup. The Phua Thai argue that because the evidence gathered came from investigations by the AEC, a committee set up post coup, therefore all its findings are invalid, are ludicrous.

All the cases proceed through the standard processes of law- ir the evidence presented by the AEC is flimsy, it will fail in court.

The attempt to isolate the Democrats and appease the army has been going on for some time- only last month Yingluk, in her capacity as Defence Minister appointed a record number of new generals.

I don't see too many red shirts protesting this obvious and wasteful act of toadying.

[Tatsujin]

If this is indeed true, it's absolutely disgusting. I hope people are taking note but unfortunately they seem to be either blind to what is going on around them, or too dumb to care and to see the consequences.

As I have said on many occasions before, this stance by the PTP puppet government is extremely dangerous.

If this bill is pushed through with this unscrupulous change having been made at oversight committee level, then this country is going to move ever closer to civil war...!

Yes, exactly, the divisions/differences are too great, and this country will never take one step forward until this is resolved once and for all. It'll be a mess when it happens. Won't be long now.

[FarangTalk]

I have special contempt for the uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime. Morons.

That says a lot about you.

The Democrats, their supporters and all those who oppose the authoritarian,inept and corrupt capitalists in this terrible government must take to the streets.

It's their only option, to try and force another coup, because they will never win a general election.

The Thai people are not as politically naive as the posters here, the fully understand what a vote for the Democrat party represents.

[Siripon]

As Tirayuth put it so aptly, Thaksin has resulted in Thailand suffering 7 years of severe constipation.

Time for invasive surgery.

[bigbamboo]

So nobody wants this amnesty law apart from those were actually guilty?

Some common sense at last!

[whybother]

I have special contempt for the uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime. Morons.

That says a lot about you.

The Democrats, their supporters and all those who oppose the authoritarian,inept and corrupt capitalists in this terrible government must take to the streets.

It's their only option, to try and force another coup, because they will never win a general election.

The Thai people are not as politically naive as the posters here, the fully understand what a vote for the Democrat party represents.

What does a vote for the Democrat party represent?

[FarangTalk]

I have special contempt for the uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime. Morons.

That says a lot about you.

The Democrats, their supporters and all those who oppose the authoritarian,inept and corrupt capitalists in this terrible government must take to the streets.

It's their only option, to try and force another coup, because they will never win a general election.

The Thai people are not as politically naive as the posters here, the fully understand what a vote for the Democrat party represents.

What does a vote for the Democrat party represent?

You really don't know?

[whybother]

The Thai people are not as politically naive as the posters here, the fully understand what a vote for the Democrat party represents.

What does a vote for the Democrat party represent?

You really don't know?

I don't know what you're implying that it means. Please tell me.

[indyuk]

In my view an Amnesty is part of the proposed Truth and Reconciliation Process (T&RP).

An 'Amnesty' is the essence of the T&RP which cannot succeed if the amnesty drafters pick and choose which of the lawbreakers are to be included or excluded from an amnesty.

The 'only' options for the drafting an amnesty are the words that frame the intent thereof and fix the date from which an amnesty will come into effect.

Therefore the start date of an amnesty is the only variable that can be negotiated with the intent of excluding some lawbreakers. That is why the current proposal for the Amnesty to take effect is 'after the coup' to avoid the incorporation the coup leaders in the Amnesty.

[Sunderland]

Everyone, or nobody, must face the consequences of the law. If the intention is to also give amnesty to arsonists and terrorists, then just open the jails now and let everybody out. Perhaps they can fight in the civil war too.

I thought the idea portrayed in this year's movie 'The Purge' was obscene, but Thailand could be headed for something very similar, but the purge will last more than 12 hours.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Sunderland

[whybother]

In my view an Amnesty is part of the proposed Truth and Reconciliation Process (T&RP).

An 'Amnesty' is the essence of the T&RP which cannot succeed if the amnesty drafters pick and choose which of the lawbreakers are to be included or excluded from an amnesty.

The 'only' options for the drafting an amnesty are the words that frame the intent thereof and fix the date from which an amnesty will come into effect.

Therefore the start date of an amnesty is the only variable that can be negotiated with the intent of excluding some lawbreakers. That is why the current proposal for the Amnesty to take effect is 'after the coup' to avoid the incorporation the coup leaders in the Amnesty.

Just as they can pick and choose which date to apply the amnesty from, they can also pick and choose the level of crimes/charges that amnesty can be applied to.

[siampolee]

This Thaksin sponsored group of ''new age elitists'' are indeed showing false benevolence in their implementation of populist policies along with this current amnesty bill too.

Thaksins puppets seem to think in fact actually believe that they themselves are above the law and are proceeding to manipulate the system to their own ends as a weapon to crush any opposition to their single minded crusade to whitewash a convicted bail jumping felon, his family and their brown nosing acolytes and of course to ensure ill gotten financial gains are returned him and them. The prospect of unlimited power has indeed inebriated these puppets to the level of total mental incapability

Do these puppets really think that the average Thai is going to accept this concept of non accountability without any reaction at all? If they do they are indeed going to receive a rude awakening.

Thaksin and his ilk need to be reminded to remember that it only takes one or two superiors in his own camp with somewhat different aims and agenda's to follow their own aims and agenda's and join forces with others who oppose this bill.

By that action alone the existing puppet leadership would be displaced and no doubt [replaced with little or no hope of survival politically the puppet masters marionette troupe will be destroyed.

whether or not the country and its peoples will benefit from such a move of course remains to be seen.The resultant outcome will be dictated by whatever or whoever is the catalyst for the change.

Beware Thaksin you have dissenters in your camp as the O.P so clearly shows us and if you have your eyes open or are not blinded by the radiance you seem to think you emit upon the Thai people and of course the P.T.P. puppets you might just see and come to understand the folly of your current political actions.

Many a regime has been destroyed politically from the inside out as opposed to a full frontal political assault, combine the two strategies and the result is a foregone conclusion

Et Tu Brute

[bigbamboo]

I have special contempt for the uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime. Morons.

That says a lot about you.

The Democrats, their supporters and all those who oppose the authoritarian,inept and corrupt capitalists in this terrible government must take to the streets.

It's their only option, to try and force another coup, because they will never win a general election.

The Thai people are not as politically naive as the posters here, the fully understand what a vote for the Democrat party represents.

You could be right about the Dems not winning another general election but then nobody thought they'd win the Bangkok election either.

[whybother]

What does a vote for the Democrat party represent?

You really don't know?

I don't know what you're implying that it means. Please tell me.

You don't know either??

[Muhendis]

You're in trouble when your enemies disagree with you.

You're f$#ked when your enemies AND your allies are against you.

Thaksin is such a cowardly piece of crap. He directs his cronies to whitewash his crimes while his idiot sister sits there like Prime Minister Barbie. You may love or hate Abhisit but at least this guy, who is facing murder charges, is going up against the very law that will free him. I have special contempt for

The uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime are quite happy to get 1000 Bht every time there is an election. They care not a fig who wins but it is important who pays.

[Robby nz]

You could be right about the Dems not winning another general election but then nobody thought they'd win the Bangkok election either.

Nor the Don Muang by election where there was a swing away from PT of around 12%.

Nor the previous by election where PT were sure they would win and said they only lost because of a higher than expected voter turnout, that's right, more people turned out to vote...against them.

If I remember correctly there was a by election before that where PT came second.

Then there was the safe seat where the PM's sister won by a reduced majority, couldn't even get as many votes as her driver got in the general election.

So we will have to wait and see what happens at the next general election which shouldn't be any time soon as the PT chief whip has said that 'Thaksin will not dissolve parliament' .

[BuddyPinkham]

They are just asking for another coop! Time to lock down my place and wait it out!