Domestic Electrical Wiring

[Crossy]

I'm well passed that level of knowledge, I'm 3 subjects away from completing my trade certificate in electrical (1080 hours of study). But thanks anyway.

Good luck getting your certs mate

All you have to remember is that most of it won't apply in sunny Thailand, the land of damp string grounds, twisted and taped connections and fried 'electricians'

[gcad]

I think the 'voltage drop' that gcad is speaking of, relates to specific types of cables installed in various ways.

I will create a 'simplified' paper about these voltage drops in a week or so. It will help a 'home builder' in Thailand to varify that the type, size & installation methods of cables are correct & appropriate. Ya can't trust Thai electricians all the time.

BTW, I've just noticed some 'typographical' errors in the Maximum Demand paper. They are not a huge problem & I'll fix it later.

Crossy...you getting this?

If you get AS/NZS3008 1.1, make sure you don't make the error that I keep making in that the tables for voltage drop are all in reference to 3 phase voltage drop. So if you are going to replicate, I assume, table 42 (multicore cables with circular copper conductors), multiply the mV/A.m values by 1.155 for single phase because I doubt there are many 3 phase houses in Thailand!

Maybe that's when they call the real electricians in, when it hits 3 phase.

[gcad]

I'm well passed that level of knowledge, I'm 3 subjects away from completing my trade certificate in electrical (1080 hours of study). But thanks anyway.

Good luck getting your certs mate

All you have to remember is that most of it won't apply in sunny Thailand, the land of damp string grounds, twisted and taped connections and fried 'electricians'

My theory on that is:

Work in Australia, Play in Thailand.

[chownah]

Gcad,

What 3 subjects are you still working on?

Chownah

[Swelters]

This site is a great resource for those with construction projects in progress (as I have.) Are any of the experienced contributors available for a little Bangkok consultation?

Thanks to all.

Swelters

[Swelters]

By the way, having had my wife's 2 burner portable hot plate blow up the other am due to a short, I did some sourcing at the local dept store. Surprise! Couldn't find any, Thai or german made, with 3 pronged plug. Steel case with no ground. Doesn't this violate all the rules that have been discussed here?

Edited June 17, 2006 by Swelters

[Crossy]

By the way, having had my wife's 2 burner portable hot plate blow up the other am due to a short, I did some sourcing at the local dept store. Surprise! Couldn't find any, Thai or german made, with 3 pronged plug. Steel case with no ground. Doesn't this violate all the rules that have been discussed here?

It does indeed

Did the German one have a Schuko type plug like this:-

in which case it is actually a grounded plug but needs an adapter to be safe here.

Don't forget to vist http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring for all sorts of useful information relating to wiring in Thailand.

[gcad]

Gcad,

What 3 subjects are you still working on?

Chownah

My current subject is 80 hours of classroom theory on Alternating Current Machines. It's a ballbreaker! Not sure what the last two subjects are at this stage.

Edited June 17, 2006 by gcad

[Crossy]

Gcad,

What 3 subjects are you still working on?

Chownah

My current subject is 80 hours of classroom theory on Alternating Current Machines. It's a ballbreaker! Not sure what the last two subjects are at this stage.

Arrrgghhh, I hated AC Machines, agreed about your description

Do they still teach you about Schrage motors? An interesting beastie with a commutator at one end and slip rings at the other. It's actually a variable speed induction motor, from the times before variable frequency AC drives. Used to be found in escalator drives. A good one to throw at your instructor

[gcad]

Gcad,

What 3 subjects are you still working on?

Chownah

My current subject is 80 hours of classroom theory on Alternating Current Machines. It's a ballbreaker! Not sure what the last two subjects are at this stage.

Arrrgghhh, I hated AC Machines, agreed about your description

Do they still teach you about Schrage motors? An interesting beastie with a commutator at one end and slip rings at the other. It's actually a variable speed induction motor, from the times before variable frequency AC drives. Used to be found in escalator drives. A good one to throw at your instructor

Argh! Leave my brain alone.

Can't say that I've ever seen any motors that have opposing shafts.

[chownah]

Gcad,

So....are you getting hysterical over hysteresis yet?

Chownah

Edited June 21, 2006 by chownah

[gcad]

Hysterical? No I'm down to earth.

Bad joke.

[elkangorito]

Gcad,

What 3 subjects are you still working on?

Chownah

My current subject is 80 hours of classroom theory on Alternating Current Machines. It's a ballbreaker! Not sure what the last two subjects are at this stage.

Arrrgghhh, I hated AC Machines, agreed about your description

Do they still teach you about Schrage motors? An interesting beastie with a commutator at one end and slip rings at the other. It's actually a variable speed induction motor, from the times before variable frequency AC drives. Used to be found in escalator drives. A good one to throw at your instructor

Well, I liked AC/DC machines (no jokes please )...I actually did very well in this subject. Thank god that it was not repeated in the Associate Diploma.

Also, good luck gcad...as you may be well aware, you are not actually a 'Tradesman' until you've 'done some time' on your own. It took me a good 4 years AFTER attaining my 'Craftsmans Certificate of Proficiency' in 'Electrical Fitting/Mechanics' before I thought I was a 'competent tradesman'. I must have got a million kicks up the arse along the way...but I think that the punishment served me well.

In the meantime, Thailand will need competent people. Don't forget about this. It could easily be the means to another end.

Anyway bud, head down & bum up...pass those bloody tests. See you in Thailand soon.

Rob.

Ps Sorry I've been a bit remiss on postings but since I have resigned, the company has gone into a 'spin' & my workload has increased significantly. The good thing is that this will end on my last working day (12 July), afterwhich I will hop on a plane to Thailand on 20 July. END OF SLAVERY

Edited June 22, 2006 by elkangorito

[gcad]

Kanga, my immediate supervisor keeps telling me the same as you, he says I'll start learning once I've done my 4 years and have all the responsibility on my shoulders. It's a tough trade to pickup, that's for sure. What options does a competent farang electrician have in Thailand anyway?

Edit: Lucky you for getting out of "jail"!

Edited June 23, 2006 by gcad

[robint]

Kanga, my immediate supervisor keeps telling me the same as you, he says I'll start learning once I've done my 4 years and have all the responsibility on my shoulders. It's a tough trade to pickup, that's for sure. What options does a competent farang electrician have in Thailand anyway?

To the best of my knowledge a flang is not permitted to work as an electrician in the LOS (even though his skills are a 1000 times better than any of the monkeys here.

In fact you cant even be an Engineer. You have to be a Supervisor/manager (no hands on)

Well at least thats the official line, what you get away with in practice is another matter, but you will most likely run up against the Thai male inflated Ego thing which will make it hard to train them or work with them.

The only guys ive ever worked with who have been worth more than a twopenny ###### have been those that have worked in Saudi in the old days - these guys would be in their 40's now and a pleasure to work with and anxious to learn. I have a first rate heavy machine mechanic working for me now who is solid gold - <deleted> cant there be more like him.

[chownah]

What options does a competent farang electrician have in Thailand anyway?

You could teach English.

[Crossy]

What options does a competent farang electrician have in Thailand anyway?

Apart from teaching English (thanks Chownah:)) you could certainly be an 'engineering consultant'.

Electrical work is not specifically mentioned in the list of prohibited employment http://www.thaivisa.com/391.0.html but there are a couple of rather broad categories which could include it.

[lopburi3]

Below is an example of hungry rats and a non RCD trip of a 20 amp circuit breaker. And as bare as it is the short was intermittent and only between the wires (so no RCD trip).

[elkangorito]

Below is an example of hungry rats and a non RCD trip of a 20 amp circuit breaker. And as bare as it is the short was intermittent and only between the wires (so no RCD trip).

Hi Lop,

Exactly where in the building did this happen? Roof, wall etc?

[lopburi3]

Extension roof area between sub panel in main house and maids room. Have had previous problems with rats eating the imported wires in a Borsch Dish Washer but this is first time have seen them hungry enough to eat domestic wires. The positive spin is that they now have 4 mm wire with ground available so replaced with that (about 52 baht per meter).

[elkangorito]

Extension roof area between sub panel in main house and maids room. Have had previous problems with rats eating the imported wires in a Borsch Dish Washer but this is first time have seen them hungry enough to eat domestic wires. The positive spin is that they now have 4 mm wire with ground available so replaced with that (about 52 baht per meter).

Thanks Lop. If ever I build a house in the LOS, I think I will be running all 'external' cables/wiring in conduit. Maybe the rats will get tired of chewing through this stuff

[gcad]

I think pyro would be more effective.

[Crossy]

Definately going to run all my wiring in conduit (when we finally get the house above swamp level). Not decided whether we'll use PVC or galvanised steel (possibly a combination of the two).

Meanwhile here's one for the gallery. I cut the Schuko off the end of this commercial power lead with the intention of attaching a local 3 pole plug.

Spot anything interesting??

Scary.....

[lopburi3]

Looks like they got the worlds color codes covered. Did you meter them? Hope the devise was very low wattage. Bet it was marked with all kinds of approvals.

[Crossy]

Looks like they got the worlds color codes covered. Did you meter them? Hope the devise was very low wattage. Bet it was marked with all kinds of approvals.

Came with a used PC, but I can't blame the PC supplier (Prathum), they just bought a job lot of mains cables.

It's connected with 2 wires per pole, the cable looks suspiciously like an industrial RS-485 data cable, no external markings / ratings. We use similar stuff on the rail system where the insulation is rated at 250V, marginal for mains use.

Both plugs have been cut off and the cable is in the 'useful cable' box. An identical looking cable from the same source had its Schuko removed to reveal Euro standard Brown, Blue, Green/Yellow cores, that one is still in use for the intended purpose.

Edited June 27, 2006 by Crossy

[elkangorito]

When I was last at the Thai Electrical Wholesalers, I spotted some "3 core flex" as well as some re-wirable plugs & sockets. I think I'll be manufacturing all of my extension leads when I am back in Thailand. After seeing the nasty thing that Crossy posted, I'll even be happy to "solder & tape" some 3 core flex to an IEC plug/socket.

Thanks Crossy...you've alerted me to something that I had no idea existed.

[gcad]

elkangorito, where does one go to find an electrical wholesaler in Thailand?

[elkangorito]

elkangorito, where does one go to find an electrical wholesaler in Thailand?

Well, I didn't "find" one...my UK mate already knew it existed before I knew. This was in Ampur Klaeng (Rayong Province...200 kms East of BKK).

The wholesaler had everything from the most illegal products to 2c+E TPS cable.

As a matter of fact, I would recommend to all that if electrical products are required, speak to your Thai electrician & ask him where the nearest electrical wholesaler is located. I would not buy electrical anything from a supermarket in Thailand.

[Swelters]

Can anyone explain just how the MEN provides improved safety? I've tried to think through the scenario of what can happen if there is no MEN, which, if I'm not mistaken, basically re-grounds (earths) the neutral just before it enters the main board. I certainly don't quarrel with its usefulness but just don't understand what it does.

Thanks for the great advice in this thread.

[Swelters]

Anyone care to comment on outside wiring for lighting? The standard appears to be buried black rubber-encased 2 wire and flood/spot lighting receptacles with a rubber seal. Put it in yellow PVC tubes for areas of likley disturbance. My guy says he does not want to splice such outside cable which sounds like good practice. I've seen heavy plastic 4-pronged connectors, maybe these are ok for above ground outside use? I assume that any ground-level light receptacle that could get flooded would be a hazard.

Thanks again.