Bangkok's "Starbung" coffee vendor defies multinational

[rametindallas]

MUSLIM.

Strange how one small word can change peoples perception of right and wrong.

On the original thread, where Mr Damrongs religion was not mentioned, 99% of the posters supported him against the multinational giant.

On this thread however, where the OP mentions him as a muslim from the south, a clear majority of the posters are in favour of Starbucks!

Wonder why??

Every report mentions he is a Muslim. Same posters' names for and against. The only thing different is participation rate. Find another excuse why you are losing the argument.

[rametindallas]

Starbucks is experiencing a PR storm in China as well after state television did a 20-minute piece on how they're ripping off the Chinese consumer. Same deal in Thailand -- the Starbucks coffee I've had here is watery and smells burnt, and it's considerably more expensive than in the US. There are so many good, comfortable coffee shops and cafes throughout the kingdom that sell quality northern Thai coffee for no more than 40 or 50 baht. Why anyone goes to Starbucks is beyond me.

STARBUNG FOREVER.

How is it ripping off when the prices are clearly posted. Did you buy a Maserati and say they ripped you off because they charged more than a Mazda? I doubt Starbucks sells even 1% of he coffee in the capitol; you have to search it out and pass a hundred other coffee outlets to get 'ripped off'.

[Baloo22]

Of course Starbucks grew into a multi-billion dollar company with over 19,000 stores in 62 countries by selling poor products that nobody wanted to buy.

All the evidence points to the obvious fact that they know much more about quality coffee and much more about delivering quality products to customers than you. I'm fairly certain of one thing that Starbucks did NOT do that helped them to grow into such a successful company;

They didn't take advice from you!

Are you claiming that the coffee and food are quality?? Shame on you. Now go and wash your mouth out with soap before you say anything else as ridiculous as that!

You are simply demonstrating that you are one more person who knows much less about coffee and customer service than the company with over 19,000 stores in 62 countries. You are the one pegging the ThaiVisa "Ridiculous" meter!

Ok now you have lost me. Customer service? Starbucks? What planet are you on bro, seriously.

Clearly you know nothing about coffee. Your suggesting that warmed diluted buffallo dung in a glass/cup/mug is coffee? Perhaps only to the ample simpletons in this world that should know better. Notice how well Starbucks seem to do in countries with absolutley no coffee culture?

You were lost long before you ran into me! Clearly the people who run Starbucks, the company with over 19,000 stores in 62 countries, know much more about coffee and customer service than you. Or does Bikkii Coffee have more stores in more countries?

And when you start talking about simpletons, it's obvious that you were looking in a mirror.

[rametindallas]

Rather a nice story. Starbucks is totally in the right legally but Starbungs is winning public sympathy by standing up to the wealthy foreign aggressor and risking going to jail.

If Starbucks had any sense they would have ignored him. Now they are in it they should turn it around by buying him out or paying a designer to make him a really nice logo that doesn't look like theirs.

Wow! That would create a new cottage industry in Thailand. I can see it now: open up a copy of a trademarked brand and then get them to buy you out or pay a designer to create a new logo for them. Brilliant! But how would the generous corporation benefit from buying out all these newly created shops; you know they must justify this with the stockholders. Would the newspapers devote as much space to their good actions as they do to their supposed bad actions? How much good PR would they get from supporting this new industry

[cup-O-coffee]

Amazing how that Thai flag flying in the wind could appear to be a portion of the Pepsi logo.

Something ought to be done about that as well; now that we are nitpicking.

[rametindallas]

If a few people give him a review on tripadvisor, he will become one of BKK's major attractions

If he doesn't back down, they have to visit him in prison.

[DogNo1]

That song by Jay Hawkins was top-rate! Very entertaining.

[Equalizer]

I have to say that the lack of legislation in the realms of fair trading in this country needs addressing. If you wanted to open a fish and chip shop in the UK you would need to be a certain distance from an established fish and chip shop before you could even apply, and rightly so. What is fair about spending years building up a successful concern for someone to do the same next door. Here you could come up with a great product to sell, invest your savings and BOOM you have 5 shops opening up on your doorstep. The place is just a disorganized jumble sale as it stands.

[Thai at Heart]

I have to say that the lack of legislation in the realms of fair trading in this country needs addressing. If you wanted to open a fish and chip shop in the UK you would need to be a certain distance from an established fish and chip shop before you could even apply, and rightly so. What is fair about spending years building up a successful concern for someone to do the same next door. Here you could come up with a great product to sell, invest your savings and BOOM you have 5 shops opening up on your doorstep. The place is just a disorganized jumble sale as it stands.

Hence why a huge percentage of the value if a business in Thailand is in the bricks and mortar.

[Carl64]

Most commenters on various news sites fail to understand the fundamental differences between "copyright" and "trademark". The laws regarding the two are not the same.

In this case Starbucks is protecting a trademark. If they do not, and let everyone copy them, then eventually they may lose the right to protect it, as a court might say something like "well, you guys have let everyone copy your logo for the last 20 years. If you cared about your logo, you should have done something earlier, now it is too late - you lose".

Starbucks is obviously not concerned about Starbung, but they are concerned about their logo, and later it may not be a small street stall, but a proper chain of coffee shops opening up with a similar logo who can actually compete with Starbucks.

So in short, this case may or may not be good for Starbucks' reputation, personally I do not think it matters whatsoever, and obviously neither does Starbucks. However, Starbucks is not fighting this case to protect their reputation or to avoid competition from Starbung, they are protecting their trademark - and that is worth alot to most multinationals.

I agree they have no other option but to make a stand. Especially in a country where cheap copies are everywhere. I am not a fan of Starbucks, but they have to do this. It may also slow down the copyright and piracy theft that is all to common in Thailand and many other Asian countries.

[Thai at Heart]

Let's see how far he gets when he tries to defy a court with a multinational and it's associated law firm and other agencies behind them.

If he just changed the color and added a hyphen they probably let it go.

[Prbkk]

....only obliquely related to "justice", my concern relates to public health . There is a reasonable discussion emerging on the safety of the food chain but these companies flogging products that are made to be dangerous and unhealthy are unregulated in most developing countries. I would require them to post warnings on their menus , similar to those on cigarette packets, identifying the health consequences of consuming the products. The Thai health system is going to be overwhelmed by emergence of epidemics of avoidable diseases caused by the over consumption of fast food, largely American in origin.

I wish more people would boycott these evil American corporations....Denny's. Wendy's, Krispy Kreme, MacDonald''s, Burger King, KFC, Coke, Dunkin Donut etc etc. All consumed on the basis of a cultural cringe that anything American is trendy and good when the sad reality is that it is all vile, unheathy, in some ways dangerous ( 900 calories in some Starbucks drinks). Profiteering from the export of misery and a path to coronary artery disease, diabetes, obesity. Then American big-pharma arrives to flog the treatments/medications at vastly inflated prices.. This is already a huge problem in China and well on the way in Thailand. At least Au Bon Pain voluntarily lists the calories by item ( but I doubt many people read it. It's sad to see Thai kids eating so much of this crap

Sure, put all the people who work for 'evil' corporations on the street. Serve them right for trying to feed their families while offending your sense of justice.

[ShannonT]

Starbucks is absolutely correct here. They're not beating up the little guy, but protecting their brand. I know a bit (though not much) about trademark rights and I believe there's a law that says you need to go after every violator to protect your mark. If you go after one (who may be much bigger) but not the little one, you may lose the other fight too. The trademark is only strong if you enforce it. Once you stop enforcing it, you start losing your rights.

This small coffee vendor has nobody but himself to blame. He's too dumb or lazy to come up with his own logo and clearly stole Starbucks' logo and just modified it a little. And he didn't just stole the logo, he even used a similar name. Both together make a very clear case here in any court of law. He's just a little pirate, nothing else.

He should design his own logo and move on. Problem solved.

Anyone calling for a boycott on Starbucks is clearly living in dream world.

Edited October 23, 2013 by ShannonT

[jacko45k]

Perhaps an aside but there would be no change to keep at a real outlet!

[redutedog1]

well it is simply he will lose, he has no money to fight this company.

and if other countries come and looked they would see many brands that are Thai copy

so what, so when a Thai goes overseas, he or she will know that brand and buy it

[canuckamuck]

Companies like Starbucks are all about branding. A successful brand can stick their logo on anything and get people to buy it; the product is often secondary, which is obvious in the case of Starbucks. Not going after trademark infringement would be completely irresponsible. It is not like they haven't try to warn the guy.

[Bkungbank]

I don't agreed a big giant sits on ant but rules are rules, We must follow rules or else face the consequences .

Edited October 24, 2013 by Bkungbank

[rjcampbe]

next there gonna clamp down on the starf$%ks for free tee shirts

I don't think so. That kind of joke t-shirt is considered satire, and is usually protected speech. (in a way, the fact that your brand is well known enough to be lampooned is usually a good sign.)

This guy is using a look alike logo and sound alike name to run a business, and the same kind of business as the company who's trademarks he is infringing on.

He is clearly and willfully violating their trademark and they should defend their brand just like any other business should.

[shaurene]

We all love the little fellas but he is wrong and all you guys with any sense or know large knows this.

I have a company in New Zealand and my brand name for my Dehumidifiers and air conditioners that we supply to big retail groups in New Zealand and Australia for the last 22 years was built up with hard work and money, I would do the same. My brand name is "SUKI" and we have it registered in quite a number of countries.

So stop blowing the whistle for this guy he is trying to screw the big guy.

[rjcampbe]

It may seem that way but pray tell, do you know of any multinational company that will allow someone to use a counterfeit copy of their corporate logo like that if they could help it? And it's not as if they didn't give the fella a chance to remove the logo with no penalties. This guy is just stubborn and now is going to get sued for it. I have no pity for this person. He had a chance to get out of this situation without any problem but decided to fight a battle he just can't win.

Starbucks needs to take a look at themselves. This guy is hardly stealing their market at the moment. They [ starbucks ] are actling like the playground bully.

I agree with what you're saying but it is just one store isn't it ? Why would starbucks bother with it ? If he opened up a chain then sure but this just seems like overkill to me.

You clearly don't understand the law when it comes to copyrights and trademarks.

By not vigilantly defending your ownership of these assets you weaken your position to defend them at a later date. If you wait until the infringing company has multiple locations and has been using the name for years and THEN try to assert your rights you will have a much more difficult time.

This guy KNEW what he was doing. This isn't an accident. It was a premeditated decision that he intentionally took. He is infringing on the Starbucks name and logo to operate a business that is in direct competition with Starbucks main business.

He had to know he was going to get a letter from Starbucks eventually... And if he didn't know, he is a fool.

There have been some corporate bashers making comments about big business crushing the little guy... but this cuts both ways...

Have any of you ever been to a Burger King in Aus? I didn't think so, because they are called Hungry Jacks. Why? Because a local business already had the trademark on Burger King when BK tried to enter the market in Aus. They supposedly tried to buy the name from him but he wouldn't sell, so they created a new name for the Aus market.

That's the way the game is played. (At least when you have a legal system that respects the rule of law.)

[Lysdexic]

Arrogant bastards. I recall Disney filing suit against an elementary school because someone had drawn Disney characters in a kids bathroom.

Them there was an excellent chili sauce here in chiang mai that Tabasco sued out of existence. I loved Thaibasco

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanhalligan/368594979/

Why didn't they just change the name?

I wish I knew. I only found it at Duke's near the Night Market, I suspect they were behind it. Wish they would bring it back, best chili sauce I've ever tasted.

[skippy]

Typical thai mentality ............ this is thailand , we thai peepon , u folena ............ this is thailand , we thai peepon , u folena ............ this is thailand , we thai peepon , u folena etc etc etc etc

[Benmart]

Just amazing the coincidence of how these two logos are the same size - color - shape - lettering....don't drink coffee so don't have a dog in this fight but if I had to sit on a jury the defiant Muslim would have to do a lot better than that.....

I'm not a Starbucks supporter either. However, I think if I were on a jury, I would consider the colors, shape, similar wording, graphics and the vendors intent when arriving at conclusion. The defendants religion would play no part in my thinking and if he decided to use that as a supporting factor, I would most likely decide against his position.

Thailand seems to have weak enforcement in the trademark laws and is a co-signer to various international agreements protecting the same. One could argue that it's the giant vs the common man, but that defense could also be applied to vendors that sell knock off handbags, watches, shoes, etc. If a trademark is not defended, then it runs the risk of loosing it due to non-defense.

[Prbkk]

Yes, Burger King, hungry jacks....whatever the name, still merchants of death and disease, flogging fat-laden, sugar overload rubbish. 1200 calories in a burger...and so heavily promoted through slick and sly gimmicks aimed at children. They must be required by law to state that their food is dangerous and will, if consumed in significant quantity, lead to a much higher likelihood of disease and premature death. Starbucks has 2 drinks on the name and shame list of the most unhealthy drinks in the USA ( mega calories, sugar equivalent to 8 scoops of full fat icecream). These companies are now under much greater scrutiny in the developed world but continue to export the misery with impunity. Marketing dangerous food to children is unethical

It may seem that way but pray tell, do you know of any multinational company that will allow someone to use a counterfeit copy of their corporate logo like that if they could help it? And it's not as if they didn't give the fella a chance to remove the logo with no penalties. This guy is just stubborn and now is going to get sued for it. I have no pity for this person. He had a chance to get out of this situation without any problem but decided to fight a battle he just can't win.

Starbucks needs to take a look at themselves. This guy is hardly stealing their market at the moment. They [ starbucks ] are actling like the playground bully.

I agree with what you're saying but it is just one store isn't it ? Why would starbucks bother with it ? If he opened up a chain then sure but this just seems like overkill to me.

You clearly don't understand the law when it comes to copyrights and trademarks.

By not vigilantly defending your ownership of these assets you weaken your position to defend them at a later date. If you wait until the infringing company has multiple locations and has been using the name for years and THEN try to assert your rights you will have a much more difficult time.

This guy KNEW what he was doing. This isn't an accident. It was a premeditated decision that he intentionally took. He is infringing on the Starbucks name and logo to operate a business that is in direct competition with Starbucks main business.

He had to know he was going to get a letter from Starbucks eventually... And if he didn't know, he is a fool.

There have been some corporate bashers making comments about big business crushing the little guy... but this cuts both ways...

Have any of you ever been to a Burger King in Aus? I didn't think so, because they are called Hungry Jacks. Why? Because a local business already had the trademark on Burger King when BK tried to enter the market in Aus. They supposedly tried to buy the name from him but he wouldn't sell, so they created a new name for the Aus market.

That's the way the game is played. (At least when you have a legal system that respects the rule of law.)

[yooper2001]

common folks we all know this guy is copying Starbucks and Breaking any law is wrong and if they let him get away with this will only mean others can do the same to other franchises. KFC McDonalds then how about copying medicine or other products. If you allow the small infractions then they will turn into Big infractions. Right is Right and wrong is wrong and this guy is wrong and anybody that encourages him is also wrong

[Benmart]

Starbucks CEO salary 2012....$117,500,000 US Corporate tax paid by the company in the UK over the past 15 years, under 10,000,000 total. something very wrong in that equation. Greed beyond belief

Two different issues here. How much should they pay.? Who decides that? Should they close shop in the UK? Jobs, lost revenue, vendors out of work? Yes it appears to be greed, but then where is there not?

The only thing I can do, is not patronize them and forget the whole thing.

[pizzachang]

Just because the logo appears similar is not a reason to sue. The Starbung logo is not a copy, it is different in many points. Copying something (to me) is where it is hard to tell the differences - not the case here. No one has confused the 2 logos, or the coffee. No one has come forward and complained that they were 'deceived' into buying 'fake' Starbucks coffee. I hope a Thai jury decides that no "infringement" exists.

[Benmart]

Wow, so many Starbuck's haters....I have always enjoyed the coffee at Starbucks. OK, some people

think the coffee is a little overpriced, However I have always been a "black " coffee drinker, not so

expensive. I can sit for an hour or so; read THEIR newspaper in a SPOTLESS environment and

use my computer to catch up on my emails. all AIR CONDITIONED all this for the price of a

cup of coffee......OR I could go to 7/11, get a cup of instant rot gut coffee for 14 B and sit on

the sidewalk in the heat and car exhaust.............I'll choose Starbucks............

Many folks in Khonkaen pop into the S&P store next door at the Tukom Center for a steaming cup where they can pay with plastic if desired, then step into Starbucks and enjoy all those things you mentioned.

And they would be called ............freeloaders.

Well now, how can you say that when the Star staff are reported to never have cared? Your moral imperative is a first world virtue that doesn't seem to have legs in a land where everybody eats off of one plate, patrons schlep their own whisky to restaurants and pubs, and people routinely carry in their own food and grog to golf courses.

Things are a changing, even in the LOS.

[Benmart]

Just started a boycott Starbucks page on Facebook. Go to Facebook and look for: notostarbucks (one word) I hope this is ok with the admins here. Otherwise please remove

Why?

Indeed, why?

Why not start a Facebook page that will have a real impact on many people, such as the non-existence of a comprehensive, emergency medical system (ambulance/paramedic) country-wide here in the LOS or a Facebook page to expose police corruption and non-enforcement of public safety laws here?

Your Facebook page may have merit, but it is a battle ill chosen IMO. Let these two parties have their day in court and perhaps direct your energy towards something that has benefits for the greater good.

[p_brownstone]

Starbucks is making a PR mistake here.

Agreed. Certainly, this could have been negotiated with baht. Depending on the devoutness and connectedness of the coffee pirate, this may be his martyr role and form of jihad and could result in a fatwah with Starbucks stores starting to explode worldwide.

By "negotiated with Baht" I presume you are suggesting Starbucks should have paid him to close his Stall or change the name?

Nonsense idea frankly.

Once word got out that the first chap had been paid XXXX Baht there would be a dozen Starbung Stalls opened the next day all expecting to be paid off.

Patrick