Mother of slain paramedic calls for exemption of Abhisit, Suthep from amnesty

[Local Drunk]

what is her opinion in giving Thaksin blanket immunity?

The poor woman is so misguided she cannot see who was responsible for the whole disaster. The Abhisit government was far too soft in the crackdown, allowing a bunch of redshirt thugs to erect a fortress in downtown Bangkok, leaving the government absolutely no alternative to take. Accidents happen in any violent confrontation, and she has great reason to grieve, but it was obvious that the violence was instigated and maintained by the redshirt goons and inevitable that casualties would occur. Grief understood, lady, but you are blaming the wrong people.

Er........... Her daughter, an unarmed nurse, was shot by the RTA.

The RTA were acting under rules of engagement issued by the Government at the time.

Almost any country in the world would require an enquiry and accountability.

She is spot on correct in her wishes and intentions.

I certainly wouldn't question her grief but of course that's the reason that her proposal is so one sided and biased. It's also understandable but these decisions should be taken by other people who are able to take a more balanced view unclouded by the emotions that she must obviously feel.

You're certainly right regarding accountability and an enquiry although a court case is also a possibility. All the reports I've seen regarding these deaths so far suggest that whilst the RTA were under rules of engagement issued by the government at the time the actions they took, which resulted in the deaths appear to have been outside of those rules. That being the case the responsibility of the PM and his government would have been to take action against those in the military who were involved. As the members of the government and the PM have changed in the intervening years the burden of taking measures against the military personnel involved now rests with the current PM and her government.

The question now is does the government risk upsetting the military?

The military, has Generals to spare; thanks to the latest round of promotions by the current government.

[Chrisswe]

Agree, this crime including PAD,s blockade of Thai main Air-ports. Is 100 times worse than ever Khun Thaksin has done for Thailand !!!

[ratcatcher]

Agree, this crime including PAD,s blockade of Thai main Air-ports. Is 100 times worse than ever Khun Thaksin has done for Thailand !!!

Brain.........gear..........mouth.

[gemini81]

Agree, this crime including PAD,s blockade of Thai main Air-ports. Is 100 times worse than ever Khun Thaksin has done for Thailand !!!

Ignorant lie of the year award. The airport siege didn't result in the swindling, destitute poverty, theft, corruption and deaths on thousands unlike when square face was the dictator.

[fab4]

what is her opinion in giving Thaksin blanket immunity?

It is pretty obvious. She specifically named Abhist and Suthep.

Not a word About Thaksin. Obviously he has reached her some how as her original proposition did not exclude him.

When she first came out with her proposal I thought it was a good idea in that it would still leave the Primary perpetrator subject to prosecution if he ever got up enough nerve to step back into Thailand. Abhist and Suthep backed it also.

In my opinion she is just another red shirt willing to do any thing that Thaksin tells her to do. I don't give a dam that her doughter was killed as she is willing to let the man responsible for it go free and try to Punish the ones who ended the attempted Coup.

I wasn't aware that anyone other than Abhisit and Suthep had responsibility for ordering the Army on to the streets and to use live ammunition against their own people.

Until uncaring people like you and others like you who don't give a dam_n about the Army slaying civilians in Thailand, become less self centred and arrogant about these atrocities, this country will continue to be plagued by these low lifes who use the Army as a political prop.

And what about the Red Shirt rioters 'slaying' civilians, firing M16's and pipe bombs at people's houses in the dead of night ? That was fine was it ? So you think the government should have just sat back and let the Red Shirt rioters go on raiding hospitals, firing pipe bombs at people, burning down sity halls and stealing from closed businesses not to mention disrupting the economy and being generally aggressive and violent towards anyone who disagreed with them ? And of course we all know that half of them didn't even know why they were there, they just wanted the 500 baht per day they were being paid by the man in Dubai. If Uruphong was paying 500 baht per day no doubt they would have 100,000 people there right now ?! At least the people there know why they are there and they are protesting peacefully within the rule of law...

If or when evidence is found of red shirts slaying civilians I shall support the arrest and sentencing of those responsible - firing M16's and pipe bombs at peoples houses, I'm not aware of instances like that but again if found to be true and not a figment of your imagination, same thing.

Now the curious thing is 300 plus red shirt supporters were jailed (some unjustly) for up to and beyond 3 years so it appears to me that justice has been, and is still being, carried out for the offences they carried out. Compare and contrast with the those in the Army who have been found responsible for deaths of unarmed civilians and you find that no justice has been taken nor is it likely to be.

And to go over old facts the yellow shirt occupation of government house and the airports caused far more inconvenience but especially far more disruption to the economy than the UDD have ever caused and not one of those charged has seen the inside of a jail yet.

[Thait Spot]

what is her opinion in giving Thaksin blanket immunity?

It is pretty obvious. She specifically named Abhist and Suthep.

Not a word About Thaksin. Obviously he has reached her some how as her original proposition did not exclude him.

When she first came out with her proposal I thought it was a good idea in that it would still leave the Primary perpetrator subject to prosecution if he ever got up enough nerve to step back into Thailand. Abhist and Suthep backed it also.

In my opinion she is just another red shirt willing to do any thing that Thaksin tells her to do. I don't give a dam that her doughter was killed as she is willing to let the man responsible for it go free and try to Punish the ones who ended the attempted Coup.

I wasn't aware that anyone other than Abhisit and Suthep had responsibility for ordering the Army on to the streets and to use live ammunition against their own people.

Until uncaring people like you and others like you who don't give a dam_n about the Army slaying civilians in Thailand, become less self centred and arrogant about these atrocities, this country will continue to be plagued by these low lifes who use the Army as a political prop.

Go on then, amuse me.

WHAT was the "order" to the army?

[hellodolly]

what is her opinion in giving Thaksin blanket immunity?

The poor woman is so misguided she cannot see who was responsible for the whole disaster. The Abhisit government was far too soft in the crackdown, allowing a bunch of redshirt thugs to erect a fortress in downtown Bangkok, leaving the government absolutely no alternative to take. Accidents happen in any violent confrontation, and she has great reason to grieve, but it was obvious that the violence was instigated and maintained by the redshirt goons and inevitable that casualties would occur. Grief understood, lady, but you are blaming the wrong people.

Er........... Her daughter, an unarmed nurse, was shot by the RTA.

The RTA were acting under rules of engagement issued by the Government at the time.

Almost any country in the world would require an enquiry and accountability.

She is spot on correct in her wishes and intentions.

There has been an enquiry.

And accountability being thrown out the window with the blanket amnesty.

If she wants accountability she should be against the blanket amnesty as a whole, not just picking and choosing who she doesn't want to get it.

philw

Sorry but may I remind you again that she is not stupid and Thaksin has an army of red shirted goons willing to do his bidding.

What is the matter. It is plain for all to see.

She comes in with a good proposal and later when she finds out they want nothing to do with it because it does not cover Thaksin she changes her mind. Back she goes with I want Abhist and Suthep out of it. 2+2=4.

Now it dosen't take the brightest mind to stay out of a war zone. The daughter chose to enter it. Maybe she was as stupid as the red shirts and thought they had done nothing wrong and invading hospitals and firing rockets at transportation terminals was OK. Or maybe she thought she could have been of medical service. After all the red shirts were so stupid that they had a whole hospital to take care of there injured in but didn't even know how to put a band aid on so they abandoned it. We all know from your posts you think they were in the rite in all these actions. But you had enough sense to not go into the war zone. At least I think you did.

In closing how many Army personnel were in the civilian transportation center they fired rockets into? How many civilians were living there for the sole purpose of supporting the Army? How many soldiers were in the hospital they invaded? What illegal action started it all and who committed it and refused to back down from it and obey the rule of law?

When you can give some honest answers to those questions you may have some thing to say. As is every thing you say is just mimicking red shirt propaganda and Thaksin and his parade of mouth pieces.

I may be slow but I was for the red shirts until they made it obvious they had no intention of following the law. I then saw them for who and what they are. Not that I needed a clincher but when the Government agreed to and end to it all under the red shirts conditions and the red shirts backed out of it that was the nail that sealed the coffin forever.

Now that that is said you do have good posts on other subjects.

Edited October 25, 2013 by hellodolly

[rubl]

I wasn't aware that anyone other than Abhisit and Suthep had responsibility for ordering the Army on to the streets and to use live ammunition against their own people.

Until uncaring people like you and others like you who don't give a dam_n about the Army slaying civilians in Thailand, become less self centred and arrogant about these atrocities, this country will continue to be plagued by these low lifes who use the Army as a political prop.

And what about the Red Shirt rioters 'slaying' civilians, firing M16's and pipe bombs at people's houses in the dead of night ? That was fine was it ? So you think the government should have just sat back and let the Red Shirt rioters go on raiding hospitals, firing pipe bombs at people, burning down sity halls and stealing from closed businesses not to mention disrupting the economy and being generally aggressive and violent towards anyone who disagreed with them ? And of course we all know that half of them didn't even know why they were there, they just wanted the 500 baht per day they were being paid by the man in Dubai. If Uruphong was paying 500 baht per day no doubt they would have 100,000 people there right now ?! At least the people there know why they are there and they are protesting peacefully within the rule of law...

If or when evidence is found of red shirts slaying civilians I shall support the arrest and sentencing of those responsible - firing M16's and pipe bombs at peoples houses, I'm not aware of instances like that but again if found to be true and not a figment of your imagination, same thing.

Now the curious thing is 300 plus red shirt supporters were jailed (some unjustly) for up to and beyond 3 years so it appears to me that justice has been, and is still being, carried out for the offences they carried out. Compare and contrast with the those in the Army who have been found responsible for deaths of unarmed civilians and you find that no justice has been taken nor is it likely to be.

And to go over old facts the yellow shirt occupation of government house and the airports caused far more inconvenience but especially far more disruption to the economy than the UDD have ever caused and not one of those charged has seen the inside of a jail yet.

In the words of that renegade general Seh Daeng when asked about April 10th, 2010 "no one saw me".

In the mean time it's obvious that only the government was to blame, not those lovable, peaceful protesters who deaf, dumb and blind saw nothing, heard nothing, know nothing. Almost like some posters here.

Now back to the complaint of the mother of one of the casulties from those dreadfull days in 2010. Her grief may cause her to be somewhat biased in aiming at only those she sees as to blame for her daughters death. Others are more open minded, especially those who have been briefed by mr. T. who. and this must be said, doesn't need amnesty because obviously he didn't do anything wrong. He was just making fun when he said "first shot fired I return to stand directly behind you" and almost truthful saying he didn't know red-shirts. There's a wikileak from arond October 2009 where he warned his non-compatriots to build up forces first before confronting the government. Ms. Yingluck and Yaoworat are also mentioned. Pure coincidence that just before or directly after the court decision to confiscate 47 out of blocked 73 billion Baht. That's when the fun really started.

In the words of my dear, too early departed friend 'honest John' phiphidon, for balance it's necessary to show the other side of the medal sometimes.

Edited October 25, 2013 by rubl

[billd766]

Agree, this crime including PAD,s blockade of Thai main Air-ports. Is 100 times worse than ever Khun Thaksin has done for Thailand !!!

You really do talk rubbish at times.

100 times worse than over 2,500 "drug dealer" murders?

Worse than Tak Bai?

Worse than Krue Se?

Really?

And they happened when your "hero" Thaksin was in charge of the country.

How many people died at the airport?

How many people died during the coup?

Also Abhisit and Suthep have already saId that they won't accept amnesty and surprise, surprise they are both STILL in Thailand supposedly charged with murder.

Where is your hero Thaksin?

[Robby nz]

As I read the courts verdict on the inquest to the deaths in the temple it said that the victims were killed by military weapons.

It did not say those weapons were in the hands of military personal at the time.

We know for sure that army units were in a position where they could have fired into the temple.

However we also know from photos and videos that men in black were also in position where they could have fired into the temple.

We also know that military weapons were in the hands of other reds, they had no problem showing them off on their stage.

We also know that the court discounted the evidence of army personal, because it was reported, their evidence was not identical.

That leaves us with : Why would anyone do this?

To get some insight on this you need to use some common sense and logic and look into the mindset of those who could have done this.

The army had just won, they were soon to go home, no more getting shot at, risk to life and limb.

So what sort of state of mind would they be in? happy, relieved.

However the reds had just been ousted, beaten, that loss of face again.

What would their armed element be thinking? peed off at the very least, murderous even.

Easy to blame but not easy to prove.

We read almost daily of the loser in a fight in this country pulling a weapon and shooting someone, seems to be some sort of a mindset......Yes?

[siampolee]

Selective justice is not going to work.

It has to be all or none, indeed one does wonder what prompted the change of mind in the good lady who lost a fine daughter in circumstances that are not fully explained regarding as to who actually fired the fatal shot and in who's hands was the military ordinance, the military, the police the Men in Black or a Red Shirt ?

The truth will nor sadly can ever be known sad to say'' the whole situation has the clarity of a water buffalo's wallowing hole.''

The combat situation at the time like all similar scenarios is far from clear nor will it ever be.

i stand by the fact that all are guilty irrespective of their political position, thus as stated there must not be any exceptions as to who is accused and as to who is to stand trial.

Interesting to see that Tarit who was in command of C.R.E.S. at the time seems to have escaped from the taint of any criminal charges one must presume that Teflon overcoats have been issued to the leaders of the D.S.I. and assorted other interested parties no doubt concerning this particular matter

One is led to wonder how and where some of those who it seems live under bridges and thus are afraid of the Gruff family of goats glean their selective information and manage the cut and paste but never enter into open debate regarding this matter?

[Siripon]

Just 2 days ago Mrs Payao was railing against Thaksin and Pheua Thai, saying they had tricked the red shirts into fighting for Thaksin, and by offering the blanket amnesty, Pheua Thai were clearly showing they only cared about Thaksin and the red shirts were expendable, never mind you killed them.

Well done Mrs Payo, you were a little slow to understand the truth but you finally got there.

Now don't think Mrs Payao that Apisit can be excluded from the amnesty because as a Pheua Thai MP pointed out, there is a clause in the constitution preventing differential treatment of Thais.

[fab4]

As I read the courts verdict on the inquest to the deaths in the temple it said that the victims were killed by military weapons.

It did not say those weapons were in the hands of military personal at the time.

We know for sure that army units were in a position where they could have fired into the temple.

However we also know from photos and videos that men in black were also in position where they could have fired into the temple.

We also know that military weapons were in the hands of other reds, they had no problem showing them off on their stage.

We also know that the court discounted the evidence of army personal, because it was reported, their evidence was not identical.

That leaves us with : Why would anyone do this?

To get some insight on this you need to use some common sense and logic and look into the mindset of those who could have done this.

The army had just won, they were soon to go home, no more getting shot at, risk to life and limb.

So what sort of state of mind would they be in? happy, relieved.

However the reds had just been ousted, beaten, that loss of face again.

What would their armed element be thinking? peed off at the very least, murderous even.

Easy to blame but not easy to prove.

We read almost daily of the loser in a fight in this country pulling a weapon and shooting someone, seems to be some sort of a mindset......Yes?

Quite likely the biggest pile of dross it has been my misfortune to read.

[fab4]

Selective justice is not going to work.

It has to be all or none, indeed one does wonder what prompted the change of mind in the good lady who lost a fine daughter in circumstances that are not fully explained regarding as to who actually fired the fatal shot and in who's hands was the military ordinance, the military, the police the Men in Black or a Red Shirt ?

The truth will nor sadly can ever be known sad to say'' the whole situation has the clarity of a water buffalo's wallowing hole.''

The combat situation at the time like all similar scenarios is far from clear nor will it ever be.

i stand by the fact that all are guilty irrespective of their political position, thus as stated there must not be any exceptions as to who is accused and as to who is to stand trial.

Interesting to see that Tarit who was in command of C.R.E.S. at the time seems to have escaped from the taint of any criminal charges one must presume that Teflon overcoats have been issued to the leaders of the D.S.I. and assorted other interested parties no doubt concerning this particular matter

One is led to wonder how and where some of those who it seems live under bridges and thus are afraid of the Gruff family of goats glean their selective information and manage the cut and paste but never enter into open debate regarding this matter?

Tharit was never and has never been in charge of CRES.

"One is led to wonder how and where some of those who it seems live under bridges and thus are afraid of the Gruff family of goats glean their selective information and manage the cut and paste but never enter into open debate regarding this matter?"

*edited out* What does it mean?

[rubl]

As I read the courts verdict on the inquest to the deaths in the temple it said that the victims were killed by military weapons.

It did not say those weapons were in the hands of military personal at the time.

We know for sure that army units were in a position where they could have fired into the temple.

However we also know from photos and videos that men in black were also in position where they could have fired into the temple.

We also know that military weapons were in the hands of other reds, they had no problem showing them off on their stage.

We also know that the court discounted the evidence of army personal, because it was reported, their evidence was not identical.

That leaves us with : Why would anyone do this?

To get some insight on this you need to use some common sense and logic and look into the mindset of those who could have done this.

The army had just won, they were soon to go home, no more getting shot at, risk to life and limb.

So what sort of state of mind would they be in? happy, relieved.

However the reds had just been ousted, beaten, that loss of face again.

What would their armed element be thinking? peed off at the very least, murderous even.

Easy to blame but not easy to prove.

We read almost daily of the loser in a fight in this country pulling a weapon and shooting someone, seems to be some sort of a mindset......Yes?

Quite likely the biggest pile of dross it has been my misfortune to read.

Very nicely put, but somewhat brief. Could you please explain your opinion, dear fabby. Why would you like to qualify robby's remarks as dross, what does it make dross in your eyes?

[hellodolly]

Selective justice is not going to work.

It has to be all or none, indeed one does wonder what prompted the change of mind in the good lady who lost a fine daughter in circumstances that are not fully explained regarding as to who actually fired the fatal shot and in who's hands was the military ordinance, the military, the police the Men in Black or a Red Shirt ?

The truth will nor sadly can ever be known sad to say'' the whole situation has the clarity of a water buffalo's wallowing hole.''

The combat situation at the time like all similar scenarios is far from clear nor will it ever be.

i stand by the fact that all are guilty irrespective of their political position, thus as stated there must not be any exceptions as to who is accused and as to who is to stand trial.

Interesting to see that Tarit who was in command of C.R.E.S. at the time seems to have escaped from the taint of any criminal charges one must presume that Teflon overcoats have been issued to the leaders of the D.S.I. and assorted other interested parties no doubt concerning this particular matter

One is led to wonder how and where some of those who it seems live under bridges and thus are afraid of the Gruff family of goats glean their selective information and manage the cut and paste but never enter into open debate regarding this matter?

It has to be all or none, indeed one does wonder what prompted the change of mind in the good lady who lost a fine daughter

I know the red shirts delivered an ultimatum to her that she could not refuse.

[whybother]

Tharit was never and has never been in charge of CRES.

You don't think he took part in the decision making process?

[Robby nz]

fab4, on 25 Oct 2013 - 19:55, said:

Robby nz, on 25 Oct 2013 - 15:58, said:

As I read the courts verdict on the inquest to the deaths in the temple it said that the victims were killed by military weapons.

It did not say those weapons were in the hands of military personal at the time.

We know for sure that army units were in a position where they could have fired into the temple.

However we also know from photos and videos that men in black were also in position where they could have fired into the temple.

We also know that military weapons were in the hands of other reds, they had no problem showing them off on their stage.

We also know that the court discounted the evidence of army personal, because it was reported, their evidence was not identical.

That leaves us with : Why would anyone do this?

To get some insight on this you need to use some common sense and logic and look into the mindset of those who could have done this.

The army had just won, they were soon to go home, no more getting shot at, risk to life and limb.

So what sort of state of mind would they be in? happy, relieved.

However the reds had just been ousted, beaten, that loss of face again.

What would their armed element be thinking? peed off at the very least, murderous even.

Easy to blame but not easy to prove.

We read almost daily of the loser in a fight in this country pulling a weapon and shooting someone, seems to be some sort of a mindset......Yes?

Quite likely the biggest pile of dross it has been my misfortune to read.

Very nicely put, but somewhat brief. Could you please explain your opinion, dear fabby. Why would you like to qualify robby's remarks as dross, what does it make dross in your eyes?

Leave him alone Rubi it must be a tough job defending PT and the reds.

Could not have been a suitable quote from the red book and but the Dems doesn't fit.

So he had to make something up and prove the old saying 'open your mouth and remove all doubt.