China court rejects Bo Xilai appeal, upholds life sentence

[LawrenceChee]

I believe all you are describing above is what the moderates deem as the slow and moderate opening of the justice system in China

They are clapping their hands lightly in hope of seeing more improvements in a communist country and also in respect of a leadership that is brave enough to change from its doctrine ways into listening more to the people on the ground.

Certainly a marked improvement from some western states these days where bi-partisan political parties continue to put their party agenda before the country ones

You didn't make mention that the Chinese police had a hard time finding the escorts for Bo as he is significantly taller than most Chinese ? I found that an amusing tidbit to the trial

I am also having a hard time explaining to the local commissioner of police here why police brutality like this actually justifies compensation. The communists find this perplexing as well on what basis of justice systems would allow that ...I have to admit I was equally befuddled ....

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/23/21105239-university-of-california-cop-who-pepper-sprayed-student-protesters-awarded-38000

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[Publicus]

Once the CCP arrests you, you are guilty. That remains fact and it is an ingrained precept of the CCP's judicial system which everyone in the CCP-PRC expects and accepts.

The fact is that in the CCP-PRC, once you are arrested, you are a goner. Your trial is only a pro forma proceeding, the public presentation of your guilt, why you are guilty, what you did against the People and, worse, against the State, and how horrible what you did was. It's your responsibility to agree completely and to everything, and to accept your punishment. This is ingrained in the culture of the CCP-PRC judicial system and isn't going to change anytime soon, if ever.

Because of Bo's pre-arrest membership of the Politburo, and due to his political and business connections, Bo was given a five day trial during which he was allowed a defense.

Bo's wife got a one day trial and a commuted death penalty and their co-conspirator Wan Ji Lin, Bo's former police chief who fell out from the Bo family and broke the case, also got a one day trial. Each admitted to all charges and quietly went off to prison after the court in each instance said that their cooperation in pleading guilty reduced their sentences in their severity and duration.

Bo's clout got him a five day trail during which he unprecedentedly contested every charge. Being guilty before the trial began, however, the judge said Bo got a harsher sentence than he would have received had he admitted to his guilt in a one day "trial".

So the new development Bo enjoyed in his trial, of being able to present a defense over a period of days, only made him more guilty. If that's a reform or an improvement, then I'm Chinese and Bo is an Eskimo.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

Once the CCP arrests you, you are guilty. That remains fact and it is an ingrained precept of the CCP's judicial system which everyone in the CCP-PRC expects and accepts. 

 

The fact is that in the CCP-PRC, once you are arrested, you are a goner. Your trial is only a pro forma proceeding, the public presentation of your guilt, why you are guilty, what you did against the People and, worse, against the State, and how horrible what you did was. 

 

Because of Bo's pre-arrest membership of the Politboro and due to his political and business connections, Bo was given a five day trial during which he was allowed a defense. His wife got a one day trial and a commuted death penalty and their coconspirator Wan Ji Lin, Bo's former police chief who fell out from the Bo family and broke the case, also got a one day trial. Each admitted to all charges and quietly went off to prison after the court in each instance that their cooperation in pleading guilty reduced their sentences in their severity and duration.

 

Bo's clout got him a five day trail during which he contested every charge. Being guilty before the trial began, the judge said Bo got a harsher sentence than he would have received had he admitted to his guilt.

 

So the new development Bo enjoyed in his trial, of being able to present a defense over a period of days, only made him more guilty. If that's a reform or an improvement, then I'm Chinese and Bo is an Eskimo.

 

 

Missing the point ....it's a communist country and in the days prior to a trial, they just shoot you.

So while it may miss it by a big mile in others standards, by the communist mantra it is an improvement and we can only hope it goes in that vein

Didn't see China proclaiming they are adopting the most expensive lawyer mouthpiece of the west yet...where you still have a skinny chance of getting scott free if you can score on a jury technicality with all your body language experts in picking the perfect jury

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[Publicus]

Due process of law and proper judicial procedures, to include the prosecuting of the case and the presentation of a best defense, are considered more important than the outcome

That's why there are appeals courts that examine only the legal processes and judicial procedures of the trial itself and rule on those bases only. That's why trial courts are sometimes reversed in either their judgements or their verdicts, and retrials are ordered.

The CCP-PRC is a 21st century fascist dictatorship - it began to leave communism behind 30 years ago. It instead has taken the remarkable path of going full circle from communism to fascism, and in a record time.

There is no possible or conceivable merit to a judicial system that is the creation of a fascist dictatorship that still thinks it's a communist one.

Assigning to one's self the task of defending the indefensible is not the course of action of a wise man.

[LawrenceChee]

Moving from communist to facist ?

I wonder why still there is a huge influx of foreigners wanting to go there to work / do business or study Mandarin. They must know something positive about China

Just in today's meeting we had 5 Chinese and 25 foreign expats from various nationalities discussing a project together...I swore I didn't see any swastika or facist agenda on the table.

Just a whole bunch of international experts discussing how to do our small part in business to prevent the next "crash bubble" u keep talking about and of course make our capital buck that some have aversion for.

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[Publicus]

Moving from communist to facist ?

I wonder why still there is a huge influx of foreigners wanting to go there to work / do business or study Mandarin. They must know something positive about China

Just in today's meeting we had 5 Chinese and 25 foreign expats from various nationalities discussing a project together...I swore I didn't see any swastika or facist agenda on the table.

Just a whole bunch of international experts discussing how to do our small part in business to prevent the next "crash bubble" u keep talking about and of course make our capital buck that some have aversion for.

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The CCP-PRC has a market of 500,000 so I myself went there, for four years as it turned out, to make a buck. It will never have a market of 1,300,000,000 people. Half the population, 700,000,000 live on less than $5 a day. China's population is a curse, not an asset.

It was during my time there I learned a lot about the CCP and the PRC, the Chinese, China, dictatorship, censorship, indoctrination, single-party government, endemic corruption on a massive scale, the fascist fenqing, ghost cities, the property market bubble, the bank credit bubble, the shadow banking system, the massive debt of local government throughout the country, employment contracts that specify no discussion of politics or religion, and so much more.

Something of great importance people outside the CCP-PRC don't talk about is a big subject on the Mainland, which is crime. Crime long has been a very serious and persistent problem in the CCP-PRC. Every PRChinese cautioned me about crime. A PRChinese cleaning woman we'd hired made her own barricade of the back door because it was at ground level. Each apartment building looks like the county jail it has so many bars on the windows and doors. There are private security guards at every gate or entrance, walls everywhere. No one wants to talk about that.

You anyway don't need a swastika to be a fascist. The CCP says Nazi Germany failed because it was too small and took on too many opponents at the same time - and just wasn't the superior race.

My world view is not predicated on an ethnic superiority.

[boomerangutang]

I too, am curious about; how many farang are eager to go to China to work. Some personal friends among them. I think the main reason is availability of decent paying jobs, particularly for farang who are willing to teach English or facilitate biz arrangements.

a true story: An American friend of mine in Thailand had tried to score a teaching job in China for nearly a year, doing it online. He was mid-50s but acting/looking like mid-70s in age. He found an opening, passed the required physical exam, which he sent along to the hiring college. However, a week before leaving Thailand, he had a motorbike accident, so he arrived in China on crutches, and acting/looking closer to 90 years old. Last I heard, he had the job, but was miserable from the cold and lack of girls interested in him on a romantic level.

[LawrenceChee]

Ah I think the moderates understand better now the basis of some of the bitter views ...there are some dreams not fulfilled by whatever product or service you thought will be the next big thing in China

I am truly sorry to hear that but this is capitalism learnt from the west....no guaranteed dollar is there for everyone.

Crime is everywhere ...1.3 billion people with no crime is a piped dream ..any hard action taken against criminals is oppression or lack of justice system for some in their books ...again like I mentioned in my earlier posting

China needs to do what they feel is the best for their people ...everyone can have an opinion and voice it out but does not mean the CCP have to take every bit of advice.

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[LawrenceChee]

The other thing I have been wondering for a long time ...I am hoping you will get a good spell soon in life ...and this is meant in a sincere way

You do seem to meet more negative side of society than most folks ...in Thailand or China and wherever else you traveled

Chok Dee Pi

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[Publicus]

I too, am curious about; how many farang are eager to go to China to work. Some personal friends among them. I think the main reason is availability of decent paying jobs, particularly for farang who are willing to teach English or facilitate biz arrangements.

a true story: An American friend of mine in Thailand had tried to score a teaching job in China for nearly a year, doing it online. He was mid-50s but acting/looking like mid-70s in age. He found an opening, passed the required physical exam, which he sent along to the hiring college. However, a week before leaving Thailand, he had a motorbike accident, so he arrived in China on crutches, and acting/looking closer to 90 years old. Last I heard, he had the job, but was miserable from the cold and lack of girls interested in him on a romantic level.

With rare exception, PRChinese college age women are strict and forbidding, otherwise Chinese women are easy as this link to The Beijinger magazine discusses in the most interesting of terms..

Why are Chinese girls so easy to...*you know*

http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2009/08/25/why-are-chinese-girls-so-easy-toyou-know

And yes, you don't want to be in the North of the CCP-PRC during winter because there's so little heating in the buildings. Harbin Municipality last week turned on its city-wide heating system, controlled by the government, and the whole area suddenly got so polluted the city had to shut down all week - schools, offices, businesses, all transportation systems, the works. ha ha you can freeze in a city with little or no heating systems or choke to death in a city that has a killer heating system.

Catch this link:

LATEST UPDATE: 22/10/2013

- CHINA - ENVIRONMENT - HEALTH - POLLUTION - WEATHER

Thick smog brings Chinese city of Harbin to a halt

© afp

Thick smog blanketed the northeastern Chinese city of Harbin for a third day on Tuesday, closing schools and a regional airport, and forcing ground transport to a halt as visibility was reduced to less than 50 metres in some areas.

http://www.france24.com/en/20131022-thick-smog-pollution-chinese-city-halt-harbin-schools-airport-shut

I anyway spent my time in southernmost Mainland CCP-PRC where winters are short and mild, summers are long, hot, steamy - essentially the same climate as Florida, typhoons included.

Ah I think the moderates understand better now the basis of some of the bitter views ...there are some dreams not fulfilled by whatever product or service you thought will be the next big thing in China

I am truly sorry to hear that but this is capitalism learnt from the west....no guaranteed dollar is there for everyone.

Crime is everywhere ...1.3 billion people with no crime is a piped dream ..any hard action taken against criminals is oppression or lack of justice system for some in their books ...again like I mentioned in my earlier posting

China needs to do what they feel is the best for their people ...everyone can have an opinion and voice it out but does not mean the CCP have to take every bit of advice.

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Moderates??

You keep using the word "moderates" to describe a censoring, punishing dictatorship that tortures its people and which massacred its youth in Tiananmen Square in 1989, along with so much else - a one party state that indoctrinates its sheeple along only one line of one dimensional thought and belief.

There's nothing "moderate" about the extremists of the CCP that have created the Fen Qing, which are worse than the KKK.

Dictatorship by its very nature is extreme.

And OMG, anyone who thinks or believes sex drive and romance necessarily have any exclusive or direct relationship to capitalism per se is engaged in a syllogism, and that analysis includes only one aspect of that flawed and erroneous thinking or belief.

You state the obvious when you reference every society has crime. Crime in the CCP-PRC however is a severe and persisting problem of its society. I'd said so many apartment buildings have bars and cages on all the doors and windows it looks like a prison compound instead of the apartment complex it in fact is. Private security guards at every gate and entrance and on so many street corners all night. Whew!

Edited October 29, 2013 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

Again I can only wish you better luck ...I'm really unsure which streets in Guangzhou u thread in to face so much crime and padlocked apartments

The ones where most of my hotel employees stay in seems to complain more of noisy corridor gatherings of eating together and karaoke than everyone shuffling home to shut all their 6 dead bolts on the doors to feel safe

Perhaps u have been reading too much into NSA big brother and wondering if they tap the mobile phone users here in Thailand as well ?

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[Publicus]

Again I can only wish you better luck ...I'm really unsure which streets in Guangzhou u thread in to face so much crime and padlocked apartments

The ones where most of my hotel employees stay in seems to complain more of noisy corridor gatherings of eating together and karaoke than everyone shuffling home to shut all their 6 dead bolts on the doors to feel safe

Perhaps u have been reading too much into NSA big brother and wondering if they tap the mobile phone users here in Thailand as well ?

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Denial is no surprise.

[LawrenceChee]

Again I can only wish you better luck ...I'm really unsure which streets in Guangzhou u thread in to face so much crime and padlocked apartments

The ones where most of my hotel employees stay in seems to complain more of noisy corridor gatherings of eating together and karaoke than everyone shuffling home to shut all their 6 dead bolts on the doors to feel safe

Perhaps u have been reading too much into NSA big brother and wondering if they tap the mobile phone users here in Thailand as well ?

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Denial is no surprise.

U mean Obama ? Poor chap ...he is getting a lot of flak ..damn if he knows ...damn if he does not ...he is probably looking at his magic cube and wonder what to say ?

There is crime in China ...everyone knows that and no one is in denial. I'm unsure what's the point really ...you mean the crime rate is so high that people are feeling oppressed again ? You probably have not witnessed them beating up as a group a pickpocket in the neighborhood

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[Scott]

This thread seems to have passed it's Use-by date.

//Closed//