The Good The Bad & The Ugly - What makes a photograph?

[watutsi]

Thank you Dancealot

I have noticed the remarkable improvement in your work over the past few months and it makes me feel good to feel peoples desire to get better

[villagefarang]

I'm quite sure that villagefarang would in that case have wisdom to put things in perspective. The farming for you would be a hobby, which gives you a real joy.

Is there a reason for an corporate farmer to put the person who is learning to garden his 4m2 field down? Is there a reason to do the same in photography?

For me your attitude towards others is what could be described as teenager thug coming to kindergarten to bully the younger kids. Someone trying to push others down and thinks that it would increase his or hers status. Boy or a girl who thinks he/she is on the top of the world, but still lack the wisdom of the life.

I have seen the same attitude in tech forums. Nerds who are laughing to the people who are just learning how to use new operating system. It saddens me every time. That behavior is kind of ok on the very higher levels, where the game is hard and people in general are on the same page, but it should never be visible on the user levels.

I appreciate your kind and understanding words and I am relieved to find that many of you have voted for the carrot over the stick when trying to encourage others to participate and share on this forum.

The stick has never worked on me and I am suspicious of those who think belittling the efforts of others with words like, chimpanzee, twee, cliche, banal, crap, supercilious blandness, fester, Instagram feed, trivia, and turds, will somehow encourage them to stick their necks out and share their photos.

A like, a kind word of encouragement and support, may not produce an award winning photo but it may just give someone the boost they need to keep on trying when they find themselves struggling.

Like the stragglers just trying to finish a marathon, not win it, they know where they are in the race and don’t need to be reminded of how far behind the leaders they are. They need a pat on the back and heartfelt cheers of encouragement, to meet their goal of finishing.

I am glad members are posting their pictures in greater numbers than in the past. I don’t believe we need to artificially elevate one kind of thread above another. Post what you like and let the members vote on what they want to follow, with their likes and comments.

Hopefully this will be the end of my banal, self-absorbed, holier than thou preaching on this topic.

[samuijimmy]

^ totally agree VF... I ran out of likes again already today... Let's all move on, to where this forum was... a fun place to be and go through each day ....

No more ..... mines better than yours!

or

[watutsi]

I'm quite sure that villagefarang would in that case have wisdom to put things in perspective. The farming for you would be a hobby, which gives you a real joy.

Is there a reason for an corporate farmer to put the person who is learning to garden his 4m2 field down? Is there a reason to do the same in photography?

For me your attitude towards others is what could be described as teenager thug coming to kindergarten to bully the younger kids. Someone trying to push others down and thinks that it would increase his or hers status. Boy or a girl who thinks he/she is on the top of the world, but still lack the wisdom of the life.

I have seen the same attitude in tech forums. Nerds who are laughing to the people who are just learning how to use new operating system. It saddens me every time. That behavior is kind of ok on the very higher levels, where the game is hard and people in general are on the same page, but it should never be visible on the user levels.

I appreciate your kind and understanding words and I am relieved to find that many of you have voted for the carrot over the stick when trying to encourage others to participate and share on this forum.

The stick has never worked on me and I am suspicious of those who think belittling the efforts of others with words like, chimpanzee, twee, cliche, banal, crap, supercilious blandness, fester, Instagram feed, trivia, and turds, will somehow encourage them to stick their necks out and share their photos.

A like, a kind word of encouragement and support, may not produce an award winning photo but it may just give someone the boost they need to keep on trying when they find themselves struggling.

Like the stragglers just trying to finish a marathon, not win it, they know where they are in the race and don’t need to be reminded of how far behind the leaders they are. They need a pat on the back and heartfelt cheers of encouragement, to meet their goal of finishing.

I am glad members are posting their pictures in greater numbers than in the past. I don’t believe we need to artificially elevate one kind of thread above another. Post what you like and let the members vote on what they want to follow, with their likes and comments.

Hopefully this will be the end of my banal, self-absorbed, holier than thou preaching on this topic.

enough of this crap,

thanks to all who had positive things to say

i have left the building

[Guest]

enough of this crap,

thanks to all who had positive things to say

i have left the building

You received constructive (as well unconstructive) criticism from me and various other forum members how people wish to see the future of the forum.

You can now either learn from the criticism, or simply ignore it. I don't think anyone wishes you to leave the building. Different opinions are always great thing to have around. Those give often an fast line to learning something completely new.

[MJP]

enough of this crap,

thanks to all who had positive things to say

i have left the building

You received constructive (as well unconstructive) criticism from me and various other forum members how people wish to see the future of the forum.

You can now either learn from the criticism, or simply ignore it. I don't think anyone wishes you to leave the building. Different opinions are always great thing to have around. Those give often an fast line to learning something completely new.

Exactly. There's to be no flouncing here! It's Flounce Free Zone or . . . . FFZ.

It does need t be both. If folks starting out with small point and shoots become interested in the bigger stuff . . . they can be nearing bankruptcy soon enough too!

[Dancealot]

enough of this crap,

thanks to all who had positive things to say

i have left the building

You received constructive (as well unconstructive) criticism from me and various other forum members how people wish to see the future of the forum.

You can now either learn from the criticism, or simply ignore it. I don't think anyone wishes you to leave the building. Different opinions are always great thing to have around. Those give often an fast line to learning something completely new.

He said he left already, Oilinky..His black&white way of thinking saddens me.

I still remain biologised with his work. Especially the shady, smokie chop shops in the dirty back streets, watutsi can photograph so well.

[Roger Lee]

enough of this crap,

thanks to all who had positive things to say

i have left the building

You received constructive (as well unconstructive) criticism from me and various other forum members how people wish to see the future of the forum.

You can now either learn from the criticism, or simply ignore it. I don't think anyone wishes you to leave the building. Different opinions are always great thing to have around. Those give often an fast line to learning something completely new.

He said he left already, Oilinky..His black&white way of thinking saddens me.

I still remain biologised with his work. Especially the shady, smokie chop shops in the dirty back streets, watutsi can photograph so well.

Would you be so kind as to point me where these photographs are?

Personally I found watutsi's dialog to be abusive.

Roger

[Dancealot]

Would you be so kind as to point me where these photographs are?

Personally I found watutsi's dialog to be abusive.

Roger

Personally, I found his (apparent) monologue was meant constructive. At that time he was upset because he cared about this place. All he did was expressing his feelings by using catchy metaphores, like Chimpansee for instance.

I want watutsi to stay. Sometimes he didn't post for a month or more and it was a feast and celebration everytime he did. There are not many members who can make a spark like that with me. We need members like him.

He made a statement by taking his art with him. There's your answer: Show of good charachter.

DAL

[MJP]

Would you be so kind as to point me where these photographs are?

Personally I found watutsi's dialog to be abusive.

Roger

Personally, I found his (apparent) monologue was meant constructive. At that time he was upset because he cared about this place. All he did was expressing his feelings by using catchy metaphores, like Chimpansee for instance.

I want watutsi to stay. Sometimes he didn't post for a month or more and it was a feast and celebration everytime he did. There are not many members who can make a spark like that with me. We need members like him.

He made a statement by taking his art with him. There's your answer: Show of good charachter.

DAL

What is all this nonsense about anyway?

Why have good photos, world class exposures in fact been removed, wholesale, from another thread?

Where have Fimgirl and Watutsi gone? Haven't seen them on the board for a few days now.

I am utterly confused. All this stuff goes straight over my head.

Anyway, here's a secret. It doesn't matter how bad you are at photography, with this combination it is impossible to produce a bad image. It comes with a big sack full of pixie dust!

Edited November 3, 2013 by MJP

[Goshawk]

Where have Fimgirl and Watutsi gone? Haven't seen them on the board for a few days now.

fought their corner......gained little support.....jumped ship.

gotta respect that.

[MJP]

Where have Fimgirl and Watutsi gone? Haven't seen them on the board for a few days now.

fought their corner......gained little support.....jumped ship.

gotta respect that.

What was this terrible fight all about?

I don't care actually, just get them back here!

[Goshawk]

Where have Fimgirl and Watutsi gone? Haven't seen them on the board for a few days now.

fought their corner......gained little support.....jumped ship.

gotta respect that.

What was this terrible fight all about?

...you have been following this thread right?

[MJP]

Where have Fimgirl and Watutsi gone? Haven't seen them on the board for a few days now.

fought their corner......gained little support.....jumped ship.

gotta respect that.

What was this terrible fight all about?

...you have been following this thread right?

Bruv, I don't know if it's a half past Shrove Tuesday and you expect me to follow a thread.

I just look at the pictures . . . I don't read many words.

[Goshawk]

Bruv, I don't know if it's a half past Shrove Tuesday and you expect me to follow a thread.

I just look at the pictures . . . I don't read many words.

could try a PM to both those members... possibly only they can tell you exactly why they left then.

lets leave the discussion of them right here. (unless they re-appear, which i too hope they do ..)

[MJP]

Bruv, I don't know if it's a half past Shrove Tuesday and you expect me to follow a thread.

I just look at the pictures . . . I don't read many words.

could try a PM to both those members... possibly only they can tell you exactly why they left then.

lets leave the discussion of them right here. (unless they re-appear, which i too hope they do ..)

I hope they do.

[Dancealot]

Bruv, I don't know if it's a half past Shrove Tuesday and you expect me to follow a thread.

I just look at the pictures . . . I don't read many words.

could try a PM to both those members... possibly only they can tell you exactly why they left then.

lets leave the discussion of them right here. (unless they re-appear, which i too hope they do ..)

Both? ..They?

[phuketrichard]

to me a photograph makes u see something you might have missed,

in 1/125th of a sec.

I personally like Ken Rockwell , http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/basics.htm

Edited November 4, 2013 by phuketrichard

[Roger Lee]

Would you be so kind as to point me where these photographs are?

Personally I found watutsi's dialog to be abusive.

Roger

Personally, I found his (apparent) monologue was meant constructive. At that time he was upset because he cared about this place. All he did was expressing his feelings by using catchy metaphores, like Chimpansee for instance.

I want watutsi to stay. Sometimes he didn't post for a month or more and it was a feast and celebration everytime he did. There are not many members who can make a spark like that with me. We need members like him.

He made a statement by taking his art with him. There's your answer: Show of good charachter.

DAL

Okay, that explains why there are no pictures from his profile, appreciate that.

Roger

[MJP]

to me a photograph makes u see something you might have missed,

in 1/125th of a sec.

I personally like Ken Rockwell , http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/basics.htm

Ta very muchly!

[phuketrichard]

Over the years of shooting and teaching i have learned alot and tell my ex students this

SHOOT alot, LOOK at as many photo books as you can, study them , ask yourself why are they in the book?

what makes them special? Don't bother with extra courses photo tours etc, there a waste of money

Don't worry about the latest camera but invest in the best lens you can

by the way did i say SHOOT alot

Gary Winogrand would shoot every day and not even bother developing them for weeks. They say he shot over 5 million in his life, Not only that, but at the time of his unfortunate early-death (at age 56) he left behind 2,500 rolls of undeveloped film, 6,500 rolls of developed but not proofed exposures (not made into contact sheets), and contact sheets made from about 3,000 rolls.

with digital your free to shoot even more as there is no additional cost BUT Digital has its faults. To many people take the shot than look at it, in that time u might miss the next GREAT shot

When i shoot i know when i press the shutter if i got it or not, than i shoot more from different angels and levels

I once did a 8 month trip thru India by bicycle, carried 40 rolls of Kodachrome 64 and 20 of Tri X at a time, then my mom had sent me more down the road

never saw the work till months later. i was amazed, Went into Nat geo an showed them my best (I had chosen 200 shots out of a total 100 rolls of the slides)

they loved my work ...... than told me i had to shoot 10 times what i shot an they would edit!!

As nike says just do it

[MJP]

Over the years of shooting and teaching i have learned alot and tell my ex students this

SHOOT alot, LOOK at as many photo books as you can, study them , ask yourself why are they in the book?

what makes them special? Don't bother with extra courses photo tours etc, there a waste of money

Don't worry about the latest camera but invest in the best lens you can

by the way did i say SHOOT alot

Gary Winogrand would shoot every day and not even bother developing them for weeks. They say he shot over 5 million in his life, Not only that, but at the time of his unfortunate early-death (at age 56) he left behind 2,500 rolls of undeveloped film, 6,500 rolls of developed but not proofed exposures (not made into contact sheets), and contact sheets made from about 3,000 rolls.

with digital your free to shoot even more as there is no additional cost BUT Digital has its faults. To many people take the shot than look at it, in that time u might miss the next GREAT shot

When i shoot i know when i press the shutter if i got it or not, than i shoot more from different angels and levels

I once did a 8 month trip thru India by bicycle, carried 40 rolls of Kodachrome 64 and 20 of Tri X at a time, then my mom had sent me more down the road

never saw the work till months later. i was amazed, Went into Nat geo an showed them my best (I had chosen 200 shots out of a total 100 rolls of the slides)

they loved my work ...... than told me i had to shoot 10 times what i shot an they would edit!!

As nike says just do it

Yup. I will take the first few then look at them just to check the settings are right for the available light then shoot away, occasionally checking the outputs.

Never been on a course. Only ever had the Good Mr. Fiddlesticks to help with post processing ways and means. I'm following Ming Thein and Jeff Krol on Flickr at the moment and looking at their EXIF data, that helps too.

EDIT: Yes, great glass is where it's at. I finally yielded for the Pentax FA Limited's 31mm and 77mm last year and have never regretted it.

Edited November 5, 2013 by MJP

[phuketrichard]

i never look to see if i got it right, i come from film and there was not that option. Guess in a wya i am lucky as i learned BD, ( before digital ) :-)

When i go out, i shoot one photo just to make sure the camera is working and the card is good, after that i don't look at the back till i am finished the shoot.

whats most important to me when I go to make a photography is to pre visualize what I want from the photo and where I want the center of attention to be focused.

Too many beginners try to fit to much in a shot.

[MJP]

i never look to see if i got it right, i come from film and there was not that option. Guess in a wya i am lucky as i learned BD, ( before digital ) :-)

When i go out, i shoot one photo just to make sure the camera is working and the card is good, after that i don't look at the back till i am finished the shoot.

whats most important to me when I go to make a photography is to pre visualize what I want from the photo and where I want the center of attention to be focused.

Too many beginners try to fit to much in a shot.

Yes. When you start out and eventually learn what a focal length actually is you tend towards the widest non-fisheye lenses and try to fit the entire world in. It looks awful.

I only tend to use UWA now for UW perspective shots of something rather than landscape. Landscape I prefer normal to short telephoto sharp lenses with something in the foreground, otherwise it's just bland.

[Fiddlesticks]

i never look to see if i got it right, i come from film and there was not that option. Guess in a wya i am lucky as i learned BD, ( before digital ) :-)

When i go out, i shoot one photo just to make sure the camera is working and the card is good, after that i don't look at the back till i am finished the shoot.

whats most important to me when I go to make a photography is to pre visualize what I want from the photo and where I want the center of attention to be focused.

Too many beginners try to fit to much in a shot.

Don't you look at the histogram to make sure that you got the exposure right?

[MJP]

i never look to see if i got it right, i come from film and there was not that option. Guess in a wya i am lucky as i learned BD, ( before digital ) :-)

When i go out, i shoot one photo just to make sure the camera is working and the card is good, after that i don't look at the back till i am finished the shoot.

whats most important to me when I go to make a photography is to pre visualize what I want from the photo and where I want the center of attention to be focused.

Too many beginners try to fit to much in a shot.

Don't you look at the histogram to make sure that you got the exposure right?

I still don't understand histograms.

[phuketrichard]

i never look to see if i got it right, i come from film and there was not that option. Guess in a wya i am lucky as i learned BD, ( before digital ) :-)

When i go out, i shoot one photo just to make sure the camera is working and the card is good, after that i don't look at the back till i am finished the shoot.

whats most important to me when I go to make a photography is to pre visualize what I want from the photo and where I want the center of attention to be focused.

Too many beginners try to fit to much in a shot.

Don't you look at the histogram to make sure that you got the exposure right?

Nope;

like i said i came from a film background and that has carried over to my digital age. I know i can "fix" the exposure same like i could do in the dark room.

Getting the shot is the important thing for me.

[Fiddlesticks]

i never look to see if i got it right, i come from film and there was not that option. Guess in a wya i am lucky as i learned BD, ( before digital ) :-)

When i go out, i shoot one photo just to make sure the camera is working and the card is good, after that i don't look at the back till i am finished the shoot.

whats most important to me when I go to make a photography is to pre visualize what I want from the photo and where I want the center of attention to be focused.

Too many beginners try to fit to much in a shot.

Don't you look at the histogram to make sure that you got the exposure right?

Nope;

like i said i came from a film background and that has carried over to my digital age. I know i can "fix" the exposure same like i could do in the dark room.

Getting the shot is the important thing for me.

As long as you are not clipping highlights or shadows. If they are clipped, you can not fix them. I look at the histograms to make sure that clipping does not occur unless it is intentional (almost never). It also tells me if I am beyond the dynamic range of the camera.

[phuketrichard]

i never look to see if i got it right, i come from film and there was not that option. Guess in a wya i am lucky as i learned BD, ( before digital ) :-)

When i go out, i shoot one photo just to make sure the camera is working and the card is good, after that i don't look at the back till i am finished the shoot.

whats most important to me when I go to make a photography is to pre visualize what I want from the photo and where I want the center of attention to be focused.

Too many beginners try to fit to much in a shot.

Don't you look at the histogram to make sure that you got the exposure right?

Nope;

like i said i came from a film background and that has carried over to my digital age. I know i can "fix" the exposure same like i could do in the dark room.

Getting the shot is the important thing for me.

As long as you are not clipping highlights or shadows. If they are clipped, you can not fix them. I look at the histograms to make sure that clipping does not occur unless it is intentional (almost never). It also tells me if I am beyond the dynamic range of the camera.

I understand histogram.

that's all well an fine if ur shooting landscapes and images that remain static

but shooting people on the street an scenes that change in 1/60th of a sec there is no time to check

if u get into the habit of checking ur going to miss the shot and as lighting changes as fast as the scene does, u need to understand light an shadows, depth of field, speed etc and make the necessary adjustments quickly.

Personally i play a lot with my iso to keep my f-stop an speeds where i want them,

[canuckamuck]

I suppose it depends on what you are shooting and how. I too come from film, but for me, especially with view cameras, I depended on the Polaroids. In many cases you would get the shot close and then have a discussion with the client over the Polaroids. It might take a few days to get what the client or art director was looking for. Because of this, I have a great appreciation for digital because it eliminated the massive cost of roids but still gives me that preview.

I understand that most people are looking to capture what they come across, and there isn't a lot of setup shots being done. So perhaps volume shooting is a safer way to go. I do it to sometimes too, especially when being journalistic.

But I look at my screen frequently, when the action allows. I can't understand why you wouldn't if the opportunity was available. i don't buy that amateurs are bad photographers because they look at their screens too often. that makes no sense at all; that preview screen should make everyone better. People are bad photographers because they haven't become good ones yet.