Marriage Visa Extension Denied - Even Tough I Met All Requirements

[PlastikbinLina]

The officer's dogmatic refusal is surprising. Clearly he is wrong. You can have money in the bank (400,000) or 40,000 monthly income or a combination of both. The man's supervisor is typically a Thai victim of not wanting to lose face or wanting her subordinate to lose face even if she knows he is wrong.

My suggestion is if it is at all possible to visit another immigration office and either ask for advice from a senior officer or possibly get your visa extension. The latter may be problamatic for you due to your home address being in another immigration office jurisdiction but you may get sympathy and helpful advice.

Finally if your income is 80,000 baht per month you could apply for a retirement visa within the last month of your current visa. You can do that because you have a current Non O Marriage Visa If that is refused apply for a non--immigrant visa (2000) which will give you 3 months and in the last month of the 3 months of that visa apply for a retirement visa.

[Mario2008]

You cannot use a combination of income and money in the bank if you extend based on marriage.

You cannot apply for a non-immigrant visa at immigration, only for a conversion to a non-immirgant visa. OP already has a non-immigrant visa and cannot convert to it.

[pmarlin]

An income statement from an embassy does not prove anything.

It only proves that you stated to the embassy personal that you have income (which you do not need to proof) and they make that statement official with some nicely designed piece of paper with a stamp on it. And then charge you money for it, of course.

The immigration officer is aware of this and sees this statement from the embassy as just a piece of paper confirming what you stated. Which could easily be a lie.

My personal strategy is to just do the 3 month visa runs until i am 50 (which is soon) and then apply for a retirement visa with 800k in the bank.

That should be the easiest as the requirements are simple.

If that fails, i am falling back to be a perpetual tourist, welcomed everywhere in the world.

It proves enough to get you a one year extension, Being doing it for awhile and never had a problem,. Also, never met any one who has. The only problems that I have read about was here about a year ago and that was not in Bangkok.

Edited November 1, 2013 by pmarlin

[pmarlin]

An income statement from an embassy does not prove anything.

It only proves that you stated to the embassy personal that you have income (which you do not need to proof) and they make that statement official with some nicely designed piece of paper with a stamp on it. And then charge you money for it, of course.

The immigration officer is aware of this and sees this statement from the embassy as just a piece of paper confirming what you stated. Which could easily be a lie.

My personal strategy is to just do the 3 month visa runs until i am 50 (which is soon) and then apply for a retirement visa with 800k in the bank.

That should be the easiest as the requirements are simple.

If that fails, i am falling back to be a perpetual tourist, welcomed everywhere in the world.

Yes if you have the 800,000 baht that works fine. If yiou don't such as the OP has posted it won't work.

the letter guarenting income from your Embassy works fi8ne I have yet to hear of it failing. That is provided you have the proof of income. The US is the only one I know of that does not require the proof which the OP has.

I am an American citizen and use the proof of income and they do not ask me to prove it and the Immigration does not ask me to prove it. All though I am prepared at both locations with the proof. It does how ever as you stated require a payment at my councilet here in Chiang Mai of $50 American or the equivalent in Baht.

I paid in Baht and got the best rate in town. Cheaper than making 90 day runs 4 times a year.

Australia and other countries use the same method as the US.

[sms747]

In my opinion the Immigration officer denied the visa extension because like me, considers the OP`s statements as rather vague and unclear, because all visa applications and extensions are issued solely at the officers discretion.

That's the problem and they seem unanswerable to anyone, they act above the law in some cases. I have been told a bank letter is no good as it can be a forgery, why ask for it then? Been told just to go away even with all the paperwork correct and even been told an office did not do extensions when it had a big sign outside in English advertising that they did and where they gave me the correct forms to fill in. In these cases looking back I am sure if money had been forthcoming it would have been ok all of a sudden, however I would rather go home than give into that kind of corruption.

Luckily it's only a small minority of awkward officers but that's no comfort if you get one on a bad day and customers should not have to put up with this kind of lottery. There should be a proper appeal system in place where another officer looks at your case and where they give reasons for refusal in writing. I'd like to know this officers name but I don't expect it would be allowed.

[Papadragon]

An income statement from an embassy does not prove anything.

It only proves that you stated to the embassy personal that you have income (which you do not need to proof) and they make that statement official with some nicely designed piece of paper with a stamp on it. And then charge you money for it, of course.

The immigration officer is aware of this and sees this statement from the embassy as just a piece of paper confirming what you stated. Which could easily be a lie.

My personal strategy is to just do the 3 month visa runs until i am 50 (which is soon) and then apply for a retirement visa with 800k in the bank.

That should be the easiest as the requirements are simple.

If that fails, i am falling back to be a perpetual tourist, welcomed everywhere in the world.

This post is INCORRECT - The British Embassy income letter is NOT a worthless peice of paper issued without evidence of income.

To get mine I had to prove income with a copy of my annual Pensions Office letter. the annual P60 from my private pension and 6 months UK bank statements showing the money arriving on the due dates before it was issued.

As stated in a previous post I never have more than TB50,000 in Thailand and would never pay TB400,000 or TB800,000 into a Thai bank.

Given the uncertain and irrationality of the Thai political scene etc. anyone that does so might just as well kiss their money goodbye - I keep my money in the UK

Edited November 1, 2013 by Papadragon

[JLCrab]

The Tillike & Gibbins translation on the Immigration website of Police Order 777/2551 makes a clear distinction that monthly income is earned under 2.18 (6) and that income is evidence(d) without using the word 'earn' on monthly income for purpose of retirement 2.22 (3).

Both the 305/2551 and 777/251 Headers use the word 'consideration' and 305 uses 'supporting' as in Supporting Documents for Consideration of an Alien’s Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

Neither document implies that these are the sum total of conditions for granting an extension of stay and that a competent (sic) officer cannot ask for additional items under his/her own interpretation of the regulations.

So either the IMM Officer in question is a total loose cannon or maybe in his determination the OP did not meet the requirements as suggested in 305/2551 2.18 (5). The net result however is clear: He denied the extension and apparently felt he had sufficient grounds for doing so.

Edited November 1, 2013 by JLCrab

[IsaanAndy]

A sorry tale indeed.

I agree that you should only submit documents based on one critera and no more, if they then ask for more then have copies to hand or you'll have to get them if you don't.

On the one occasion I've missed something I was allowed to fax a copy the next day for a small consideration and thereby saved another 200 km trip.

Helps when you deal with the same people every time but suspect that obviously you can't expect that in BKK.

The British embassy letter to do with income only confirms who you are, pasport nbr and that you are a British citizen.

It then uses words like, Mr X has 'stated he lives at', stated 'he recieves a monthly income of X' and has shown us documents to that effect.

It then finishes with, 'would be grateful for any assistance you can provide'.

[IsaanAndy]

An income statement from an embassy does not prove anything.

It only proves that you stated to the embassy personal that you have income (which you do not need to proof) and they make that statement official with some nicely designed piece of paper with a stamp on it. And then charge you money for it, of course.

The immigration officer is aware of this and sees this statement from the embassy as just a piece of paper confirming what you stated. Which could easily be a lie.

My personal strategy is to just do the 3 month visa runs until i am 50 (which is soon) and then apply for a retirement visa with 800k in the bank.

That should be the easiest as the requirements are simple.

If that fails, i am falling back to be a perpetual tourist, welcomed everywhere in the world.

This post is INCORRECT - The British Embassy income letter is NOT a worthless peice of paper issued without evidence of income.

To get mine I had to prove income with a copy of my annual Pensions Office letter. the annual P60 from my private pension and 6 months UK bank statements showing the money arriving on the due dates before it was issued.

As stated in a previous post I never have more than TB50,000 in Thailand and would never pay TB400,000 or TB800,000 into a Thai bank.

Given the uncertain and irrationality of the Thai political scene etc. anyone that does so might just as well kiss their money goodbye - I keep my money in the UK

Yes if a British citizen you must provide income, like a company pension statement, documents that the embassy can verify before you get any letter to support your extn, that's why it takes 24 hours to get a letter.

I keep the bulk of my money in the UK too and not in a Thai bank save for a few thousand Baht.

[XINLOI]

One thing I "Always" do , is to try and get the same person or officer to help me with my endeavors. I changed one time in the past and completely had to start over again, with a different visa. I feel for you brother, I hope it all comes out in the end.

[RichardtenBrinke]

I would say take the whole story and your paper work to your Embassy and ask them what to do. also make contact with the head Immigration office in Bangkok about this. I know the rules change constantly in this but maybe they can help out.

Good luck in getting your visa.

[PJcm]

I not sure what I would have done, but I do know that the police can not hold your passport unless you are under arrest and if you a granted bail they must return it to you. But I wasn't there and your options were poor at best, I have had 37 extensions of stay based on the criteria you presented and never a

problem. Maybe he coveted your wife, who knows what an ignorant man thinks.

Hope you get it next time.

[Fatshark]

First of all, so inappropiate to say that your wife should go find another husband.
2nd: Never heard about 40,000 baht income, always 400,000 baht locked for 3 months.

Solution: Get a Non O visa, every 3 months border run and apply next year for a marriage visa...
And for Buddha's sake try to save up at least 400,000 baht for your marriage visa application next year.

Normally you'll also need a financial requirement of 400,000baht for your NON O visa, if yes
get a loan, 200,000 and put car or house as guarantee...

P.S. let us know how the story continues

[ubonjoe]

First of all, so inappropiate to say that your wife should go find another husband.

2nd: Never heard about 40,000 baht income, always 400,000 baht locked for 3 months.

 

Solution: Get a Non O visa, every 3 months border run and apply next year for a marriage visa...

And for Buddha's sake try to save up at least 400,000 baht for your marriage visa application next year.

Normally you'll also need a financial requirement of 400,000baht for your NON O visa, if yes

get a loan, 200,000 and put car or house as guarantee...

P.S. let us know how the story continues

The income of 40kbaht option has been available for many many years.

The 400k baht only has to be in the bank for 60 days not 90.

Just go back a few posts and you can read the rules.

Why should he get a multiple entry visa?

He needs to fight the wrongly made decision that contradicts the rules by way of an appeal.

[thaiexpat21]

First of all, so inappropiate to say that your wife should go find another husband.

2nd: Never heard about 40,000 baht income, always 400,000 baht locked for 3 months.

Solution: Get a Non O visa, every 3 months border run and apply next year for a marriage visa...

And for Buddha's sake try to save up at least 400,000 baht for your marriage visa application next year.

Normally you'll also need a financial requirement of 400,000baht for your NON O visa, if yes

get a loan, 200,000 and put car or house as guarantee...

P.S. let us know how the story continues

The income of 40kbaht option has been available for many many years.

The 400k baht only has to be in the bank for 60 days not 90.

Just go back a few posts and you can read the rules.

Why should he get a multiple entry visa?

He needs to fight the wrongly made decision that contradicts the rules by way of an appeal.

As I observed earlier in this thread something is "odd"

An appeal would clearly succeed based on what the OP claims

[ubonjoe]

 

First of all, so inappropiate to say that your wife should go find another husband.

2nd: Never heard about 40,000 baht income, always 400,000 baht locked for 3 months.

 

Solution: Get a Non O visa, every 3 months border run and apply next year for a marriage visa...

And for Buddha's sake try to save up at least 400,000 baht for your marriage visa application next year.

Normally you'll also need a financial requirement of 400,000baht for your NON O visa, if yes

get a loan, 200,000 and put car or house as guarantee...

P.S. let us know how the story continues

The income of 40kbaht option has been available for many many years.

The 400k baht only has to be in the bank for 60 days not 90.

Just go back a few posts and you can read the rules.

Why should he get a multiple entry visa?

He needs to fight the wrongly made decision that contradicts the rules by way of an appeal.

 

As I observed earlier in this thread something is "odd" 

An appeal would clearly succeed based on what the OP claims

I have no choice but to believe the OP.

Especially the part about getting the 4 extensions previously with income proof.

[JLCrab]

The OP can either appeal the recent decision if time-frame allows or re-submit a new application based upon income and launch an appeal if that is also declined. However, saying that an appeal would 'clearly' be successful given the information provided is a stretch as the OP gent himself has said that he really doesn't know the exact reason his extension was denied.

For the appeal to be granted and the denial overturned, persons in the Immigration Police at the Inspector level or higher would have to make the determination that the IMM officer involved on the front-lines at Immigration Police HQ C-W has either misinterpreted the regulations or is in need of psychological counseling or maybe both.

Edited November 1, 2013 by JLCrab

[likethemthin]

You seem well situated financially. Why not just get your 400,000 baht into the bank account and apply on that basis to the same officer??

[Fatshark]

Why appeal? They told him that he already got an extension 4 times based on wrong, misleading information.
TIT rules change every day/ every minute.
Just remember you're being a guest in Thailand.
Don't take the risk to lose the opportunity to stay in Thailand.
Maybe there will be some kind of law that if you appeal and you stayed for 4 consecutive years that you'll be blacklisted and may never return.
Don't play with fire and just get 400,000 baht on your account just like every other farang under 50 years does.

Good luck!

[vahack]

I only asked to speak to his supervisor AFTER he said that he could not extend my visa. It was the very last option I had, not the first thing I said after I sat down.

yea i think that's where you went wrong. if not before. in my first couple of years getting extensions i learned that when the immigration officer is wrong, don't argue and don't look upset. they will just fortify their position.

one year (my 3rd extension) i had to go back and forth to Amnat 9 times to get all the paperwork right - a 2.5 hour drive each way. some of the mistakes were theirs, some were mine. it was a humbling experience and i learned that its better to work with them rather than against them. you cannot win - EVER - by challenging or arguing with immigration. the front-desk officers have too much power and the supervisors are way too busy to care about one farang.

if u know u are right and they insist that you are wrong, just say, "sorry i must have made a mistake in understanding", then wai and leave. you can regroup and come back another day. maybe he will be having a better day on your next visit.

it sounds to me like he was having a bad day and you were tired from the 3 hour wait. otherwise an immigration visit wouldn't escalate like that. your wife should have chewed him out him tho for the insult (mine would have). there's no way he ranks high enough to insult another Thai. my wife would have called the PM lol

[expat888]

Slip the officer a little tea money or a bottle of his favorite drink.

I think that is the problem. This has grown beyond a little tea money or a drink. They are looking for larger sums now. 10K plus.

In the past, the attorneys have been paying 5K for a hassle-free process and now I think the amount is going up. Now it's becoming pure extortion to buy your extensions now.

Going by the OP, it appears they are getting quite arrogant about it where before it was more covert. I hope the OP's experience is an exception versus a new rule.

luckily the immigration officers i work with in Amnat have so far been friendly and a great help. it doesn't hurt that i donate to their tip box every 90 days.

i get stressed and nervous every year when i go through this process of getting permission to stay in the house i built and live with my wife and kid. its pretty crazy.

one thing to remember - Thais are always right! in the stores, on the streets, in the offices, everywhere. if you get into an argument, you have to bribe or tip. and always smile and wai.

this isn't our country and they don't want us here.

Agree with your advice. When I go to immigration I let the wife do all the talking and I shut up.

[transam]

And Nooooooooooooooo flip flops eh.......................

[vahack]

Why appeal? They told him that he already got an extension 4 times based on wrong, misleading information.

TIT rules change every day/ every minute.

Just remember you're being a guest in Thailand.

Don't take the risk to lose the opportunity to stay in Thailand.

Maybe there will be some kind of law that if you appeal and you stayed for 4 consecutive years that you'll be blacklisted and may never return.

Don't play with fire and just get 400,000 baht on your account just like every other farang under 50 years does.

Good luck!

no offense man but your immigration knowledge is years out of date (if it was ever accurate?). 400,000 is not required and every other farang under 50 doesn't meet the income requirement that way. a majority just prove the 40k a month.

i've never once been told by immigration that 400k in the bank was a requirement. my first year i was told to get a bank account set up and show 40k or more in foreign wire transfers over 3 months. the 2nd year i was told the bank account had to be in my own name (it was a joint account with my wife). and in the 3rd year i learned about the notarized embassy paper. i've been showing that every year since without any issues.

you won't get blacklisted for following the law..

[Tywais]

Why appeal? They told him that he already got an extension 4 times based on wrong, misleading information.

TIT rules change every day/ every minute.

Just remember you're being a guest in Thailand.

Don't take the risk to lose the opportunity to stay in Thailand.

Maybe there will be some kind of law that if you appeal and you stayed for 4 consecutive years that you'll be blacklisted and may never return.

Don't play with fire and just get 400,000 baht on your account just like every other farang under 50 years does.

Good luck!

What nonsense and misleading along with just wrong information.

[ubonjoe]

Why appeal? They told him that he already got an extension 4 times based on wrong, misleading information.

TIT rules change every day/ every minute.

Just remember you're being a guest in Thailand.

Don't take the risk to lose the opportunity to stay in Thailand.

Maybe there will be some kind of law that if you appeal and you stayed for 4 consecutive years that you'll be blacklisted and may never return.

Don't play with fire and just get 400,000 baht on your account just like every other farang under 50 years does.

Good luck!

So you still think the 40k income option does not exist.

I have already gotten 6 extension of stay using the 40k baht option.

There is no 4 year rule. You have no clue about what it requires for a person to be blacklisted apparently.

What does being under 50 have to do with it.

There many that are under 50 doing extensions with 40k income.

Edited November 1, 2013 by ubonjoe

[a99az]

Just one of the many reasons why we left Thailand. Corruption & ignorance rule and you never know when someone will move the goalposts or pull a fast one. Very sad as I love the place and would of loved to end my days there.

[transam]

Just one of the many reasons why we left Thailand. Corruption & ignorance rule and you never know when someone will move the goalposts or pull a fast one. Very sad as I love the place and would of loved to end my days there.

I agree, and if on the other foot, farangland takes care of Thai folk with perhaps a problem.

[yoshiwara]

I must admit now on reading the contributions and reviewing the arguments I wouldn't go to the barricades on an interpretation of law if the immigration officer has given me a clear way out namely providing evidence of 400k baht savings. One goes to appeal if all other avenues are closed.

Edited November 1, 2013 by yoshiwara

[Papadragon]

luckily the immigration officers i work with in Amnat have so far been friendly and a great help. it doesn't hurt that i donate to their tip box every 90 days.

i get stressed and nervous every year when i go through this process of getting permission to stay in the house i built and live with my wife and kid. its pretty crazy.

one thing to remember - Thais are always right! in the stores, on the streets, in the o

ffices, everywhere. if you get into an argument, you have to bribe or tip. and always smile and wai.

this isn't our country and they don't want us here.

Agree with your advice. When I go to immigration I let the wife do all the talking and I shut up.

Couldn't agree more Expat

Leave it to the wife after all it's her ATM she's protecting and want's to keep close by

Last Monday I was granted a one year extension by virtue of our 15+ year UK marriage

My Non-Immigrant O single entry 90 day visa issued in London in July expired on 3rd October.

My passport has been stamped now to 3rd October 2014.

I made 3 trips to the nearest Immigration office 60 miles away with my wife.

After that I left it entirely in my wife's capable hands.

She made two more trips ALONE, I wasn't required - our non family guarantor was required twice

She also went ALONE to the local Amphur twice

She also went ALONE to Bangkok to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs twice and to the British Embassy once for affirmation of our UK Marriage Certificate.

I had already applied and received the British Embassy Income letter by post.

We are a mature couple 73 and 52, we married, lived and worked in the UK for four years before returning to our home in Thailand

My Thai wife is more than capable of handling the petty officialdom in her own country, she speaks their language for a start.

I have no idea what was said and frankly I don't want to - she even got the Immigration officer to agree that I don't have to report in person every 90 days - all she has to do is bring in the necessary form duly signed.

[MichaelJohn]

yes, I'd go with; he's having a bad day, decided he didn't like you or didn't want to admit his mistake and lose face.

Was the lady really the supervisor or just another officer he pulled in?

My suggestion would be;

Try again another day, another officer ........

If you're over 50 go for retirement instead - easier ......

Pay an agency to do it who will of course resort to some additional funds to ensure things are approved.

Or lastly, quick trip out the country to buy yourself time?

None the less, a ridiculous experience - but, sorry to say, not surprising :-(