Why be in Thailand?

[FiftyTwo]

But is it 25% of the cost anymore? If you consider comparable levels of living and luxury/materials, I don't think so. I wish it were and if you know how to do it, please tell me. Otherwise, I think Thailand does give you the option to live at 25% of the cost you would back home, if you accept some major standard of living compromises.

I agree regarding medical and dental treatment but that's one small part of COL. My apartment in Chiang Mai, would probably be 2x more to maybe 2.5x more in a comparable area in a comparable city in the States (not NYC, not a rural town). That's as big of a savings as I can see and it's the majority of my overhead monthly. And I'm still coming up short in some aspects of quality in my current place at that savings.

A lot of things--major expenses--are not only not as low as 25% of the cost or even merely less expensive in Thailand . . . a lot of our major expenses are actually more. The electricity is at least double based on similar usage and that's a big expense. Cars? Double. Alcohol, quadruple.

So aside from housing, what else is cheaper in Thailand and is as cheap as 25%? Produce? Maybe at the market, but not 25% of what it is back home in a comparable environment (grocery store to grocery store) because produce is pretty cheap there too.

One last thing though, I agree you can live here relatively comfortably for 25% of what you spend in the west, so long as you are willing to make material sacrifices. It is certainly possible to keep your overhead low. My disagreement is only where you said "same standard of living."

From the Countries in SE Asia I have visited, Thailand is the best.

Same Standard of Living as I had in the State at 25% of the cost,, no cold weather,

The Thai people I have met are nice, I respect them, they respect me, Lots of

Western food and products, interesting to learn more of the Thai Culture.

I avoid all the Drunks and nasty "know it all" farangs from the States, Europe,and Aust.

I did that in the States too......Life is good here in LOS.

OK, so you have to put up with the BIB....no big deal, play by the rules...........

If you should need medical treatment, excellent and inexpensive.

America is one of the cheapest places in the world for electronics and food.

If you didn't have to pay taxes and medical, it would be a great place to live.

Most of us aren't Americans so we can't live there anyway.

Australia and Europe, way more expensive for everything.

Thailand very cheap if you came from there.

Don't forget, living with a much younger woman is a big boost in our standard of living.

They aren't cheap in the USA or Europe, and have a tendency to get entitlement to half your property.

Edited November 2, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[thailiketoo]

I’ve always worked in big cities. I would have a town place and a country place not requiring me to own a car. So transportation in Thailand is much cheaper for me. Taxi and bus 500% and rent say Chicago to Chiang Mai is 500%. Dating is 500% less in Thailand. And dating more than one woman at a time 1000%. So for me I save 4 or 500% living in Thailand.

[JepSoDii]

But is it 25% of the cost anymore? If you consider comparable levels of living and luxury/materials, I don't think so. I wish it were and if you know how to do it, please tell me. Otherwise, I think Thailand does give you the option to live at 25% of the cost you would back home, if you accept some major standard of living compromises.

I don't get this. If you're standard of living was just so good back home and so affordable that you just can't bear to live without it in Thailand why even live here? Why move from that perfect life in the first place?

This is Thailand why not try and enjoy it for what it is rather than trying to recreate this 'perfect' lifestyle from back home.

Who said it was so good?

Who said it's so affordable?

Who said I can't bear to live without it?

Who said my life was perfect?

Can one provide commentary on costs without being accused of the above? Methinks you exaggerate.

I was making a dispassionate statement on costs. I enjoy being here. Does that mean I should ignore the reality of the costs? Does that mean I should pretend a "same standard of living" (as the person I quoted claims) lifestyle can be had here in Thailand at 25% of what it would cost back home, when the reality is otherwise?

Again, I agree I can live here at 25% of the cost of back home, but not at the same standard of living. I specifically cited "comparable levels of living and luxury/materials." That means you can't replace Egyptian cotton sheets, bought at $75 in the US and which would cost $150 in Thailand, and replacing them with the 500 baht sheet set you can have at Tesco and call it the "same standard" just because they are both sheets! They aren't the "same standard."

You overreact to me merely saying Thailand is not 25% of the cost of living compared to back home with the same standard of living. Please re-read what I said, and what it was in response to, and take it in the proper context.

I agree regarding medical and dental treatment but that's one small part of COL. My apartment in Chiang Mai, would probably be 2x more to maybe 2.5x more in a comparable area in a comparable city in the States (not NYC, not a rural town). That's as big of a savings as I can see and it's the majority of my overhead monthly. And I'm still coming up short in some aspects of quality in my current place at that savings.

A lot of things--major expenses--are not only not as low as 25% of the cost or even merely less expensive in Thailand . . . a lot of our major expenses are actually more. The electricity is at least double based on similar usage and that's a big expense. Cars? Double. Alcohol, quadruple.

Yes rent is a bargain here.

I live in a central (yet small studio apartment but I don't spend that much time in it) apartment in Bangkok with all mod cons with pool, gym, poolside bar & restuarant, 2 other restaurants, mini mart, massage place, hair salon, 2 laundry shops and more. 8 minutes walk to BTS.

8,000B per month. I certainly couldn't get an apartment for that price, in that sort of location with those sort of facilities close to the main public transport for anywhere near that price.

I pay 1-2,000B for bills (water and electricity as Wifi and cable is free). Another bargain.

However I don't understand how you spend so much more on alcohol. Alcohol is dirt cheap out here, how are you spending quadruple what you would back at home?

I should clarify that I was referring to imported alcohol, not SangSom or Seagrams and other similar level stuff. That the alcohol import tax is 250-400% exists is not debatable. Yes, Thai beer cost about 27-33 baht in the stores, but that's not cheaper then similar low-mid quality beer in the US. I can buy similar beer there for less actually.

I get that we can live somewhat comfortably for 8000 in BKK, and a similar place in Chiang Mai would be 6-7k. But while quality is relative to some, I know what 8000 buys in Chiang Mai and I bet it's a little more more than BKK. So, your 8000B apartment, when compared to the same building with the same materials and the same luxury level and quality back home in a similar type of city, it's not gonna be 32,000 baht. It might be 16-25k, but not 32k.

Again, my comments were based on whether Thailand is truly 25% at the "same standard." Not whether cheaper was attainable. While you may have a pool and gym and minimart, it doesn't tell the whole story. I refused a similarly equipped place for 5,500 in Chiang Mai. It was too Thai style and too spartan and basic. I also know I could rent a studio for 3000B in Thailand. It's not what I want. The quality isn't there. Not a value judgement here, but I am saying, for equivalent quality and same standard of living. 8000 can be a totally livable place, I agree, but I am not talking what's good enough. Take any level of residential comfort and luxury in the US and drop the exact same thing in Thailand, and you're not going be paying merely 25% of when that same place was in the west.

One last thing though, I agree you can live here relatively comfortably for 25% of what you spend in the west, so long as you are willing to make material sacrifices. It is certainly possible to keep your overhead low. My disagreement is only where you said "same standard of living."

I haven't had to make any material sacrifices personally because I didn't have much in the way of material belongings anyway.

I sold all my sh*t years ago. Never regretted it. Have clothes, a bag, laptop and phone...what else can a man need? Oh yes beer and women. Have plenty of those too.

What is it you feel needs to be sacrificed to live cheaper here than back home? No gadgets or 'things'? Better off without them mate.

Okay, well there you go. You never had any material possessions. Means you're not really debating the point I was making. You're talking about chocolate bars and I am talking about hard candy.

I agree it's good to sell all your stuff and let go. Good for you.

To answer your question once again about what I feel needs to be sacrificed, like I said before, it's level of luxury, materials, quality (applicable only to people able to discern quality from cheap), whatever it takes to get the Thai price down to 25%. Trust me, sacrifices are made. A cheap Thai style apartment does not equate to the "same standard of living" as a modestly well built middle-class dwelling in the US, Australia or England. Another example, a 600 baht Teflon pan in Thailand does not replace a 2400 baht multi clad stainless fry pan just so you can say Thailand is 25% of equivalent and it's equivalent because they are both pans. The Teflon pan is about the same in the US.

My whole message is about apples to apples. Not fruit to fruit.

Am I better off without them? I think I will be the judge of that, mate.

[thailiketoo]

I would agree except I can cook my apples in a 500 baht pan or a 2500 pan. The result is the same.

It costs me 500 baht to take out my Thai go go dancer for dinner and 2500 baht to take out my NYC go go dancer to dinner. May be worth it to you but not me.

I would compare the end and not the means.

[FiftyTwo]

I would agree except I can cook my apples in a 500 baht pan or a 2500 pan. The result is the same.

It costs me 500 baht to take out my Thai go go dancer for dinner and 2500 baht to take out my NYC go go dancer to dinner. May be worth it to you but not me.

I would compare the end and not the means.

Dinner in NYC with a hot chick for $80, surely not!

$200, maybe.

Edited November 2, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[thailiketoo]

I would agree except I can cook my apples in a 500 baht pan or a 2500 pan. The result is the same.

It costs me 500 baht to take out my Thai go go dancer for dinner and 2500 baht to take out my NYC go go dancer to dinner. May be worth it to you but not me.

I would compare the end and not the means.

Dinner in NYC with a hot chick for $80, surely not!

$200, maybe.

Late night dinner after her show we had pastrami sandwiches.

[razorramone]

ChrisB87, on 02 Nov 2013 - 19:03, said:ChrisB87, on 02 Nov 2013 - 19:03, said:

razorramone, on 02 Nov 2013 - 18:56, said:razorramone, on 02 Nov 2013 - 18:56, said:

I came here for work. Honestly I would probably have decided to go back home by now if it wasn't for one redeeming feature - how easy it is to bang girls.

Banging a with ease is nothing to feel proud about. Everyone can do it.

Free sex is much easier to find in the West.

I don't think so. I had to put in a lot more effort in the west vs here.... A much lower success rate for sure. That's coming from the UK.

Here its less effort for more, that cant be a bad thing. Spend a day chatting up shop assistants and girls in parks, and you've got enough to keep you busy for a long time. And yes anyone can do it, of course. Just look normal and be vaguely interesting/funny and you can be very successful in BKK. Girls here are friendly, to put it politely.

Although it sure will be depressing when we eventually go home and return to normal life.

That and the sudden leap in the cost of going to a restaurants.

Edited November 2, 2013 by razorramone

[HaleySabai]

Free sex is much easier to find in the West.

....not if you are over 40

[TheSpade]

Again, I agree I can live here at 25% of the cost of back home, but not at the same standard of living. I specifically cited "comparable levels of living and luxury/materials." That means you can't replace Egyptian cotton sheets, bought at $75 in the US and which would cost $150 in Thailand, and replacing them with the 500 baht sheet set you can have at Tesco and call it the "same standard" just because they are both sheets! They aren't the "same standard."

You overreact to me merely saying Thailand is not 25% of the cost of living compared to back home with the same standard of living. Please re-read what I said, and what it was in response to, and take it in the proper context.

But this is Thailand it isn't back home so why do you expect to find everything the same or be the same price?

Some things are cheaper here. Some are more expensive.

On the whole it's cheaper here to LIVE.

I should clarify that I was referring to imported alcohol, not SangSom or Seagrams and other similar level stuff. That the alcohol import tax is 250-400% exists is not debatable. Yes, Thai beer cost about 27-33 baht in the stores, but that's not cheaper then similar low-mid quality beer in the US. I can buy similar beer there for less actually.

Johnny Walker for example is cheaper here in Thailand than it is in the UK.

Thai beer in the UK is quite pricey compared to local stuff.

Tends to be the way for imported beer and alcohol.

I know in the UK you cannot get beer as cheap as you get it here in bars (supermarkets probably as there's often deals on).

It's cheap here when you go to bars.

I get that we can live somewhat comfortably for 8000 in BKK, and a similar place in Chiang Mai would be 6-7k. But while quality is relative to some, I know what 8000 buys in Chiang Mai and I bet it's a little more more than BKK. So, your 8000B apartment, when compared to the same building with the same materials and the same luxury level and quality back home in a similar type of city, it's not gonna be 32,000 baht. It might be 16-25k, but not 32k.

Doesn't really matter what you pay where I am from you'll not have a pool, gym or anything else on site.

So I'd say Bangkok wins in terms of value and facilities on offer.

Another example, a 600 baht Teflon pan in Thailand does not replace a 2400 baht multi clad stainless fry pan just so you can say Thailand is 25% of equivalent and it's equivalent because they are both pans. The Teflon pan is about the same in the US.

If frying pans are something that make a big difference to your life I think you need to get out more.

Something I'll never fret over.

Edited November 2, 2013 by TheSpade

[TheSpade]

Free sex is much easier to find in the West.

....not if you are over 40

Never paid for it anywhere but Thailand is so stupidly easy to get laid (for free) it's unreal.

All you have to do is turn up..

[SeabagsFull]

I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS

Non Aggressive gentle people?? Have you ever had a disagreement with a Thai person

Beautiful girls and better night life in many places. For tedium and lack of 'talent' try Mae Hong Son or Nakhon Si Thamaratat 19.00 on a Saturday night

Scenery and sunsets good I agree

Food pretty monotonous

Expensive nowadays..see other threads about this

Is a Police State. Remember Thaksin was a policeman and think about your relations with Immigration

Safe. No girl in their or their family's right mind goes walking after dark particularly in the provinces

Religion in your face and local government through loud speakers at 06.00

Have you tried living in a provincial city let alone in the countryside without a car?

Laolover88, you really surprised me with your post, especially "I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS." Why? You are the OP of the article, which BTW I found delightful. Your response to me, however, suggests you either only wanted responses from those as smart as you are (if so, you should have so stated) or you were looking for responses that would make you feel superior. "I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS" can only cause bad feelings & a fight or flight response in most.

Regarding your rebuts, I'm sorry that you seemingly are not enjoying your life here. I'll only mention a couple of the points since length of reply is inversely proportional to value.

I have indeed had disagreements with Thai folks, but it's mainly occurred due to my lack of appreciation of their culture (e.g., attacking someone's character as you did in your response to me has the goal of making someone lose face, a no-no in Thailand). Still, I'd rather deal with "disagreements" with Thai people any day compared to with folks from most other cultures. From the very first wais you see when entering Thailand to the non-aggressive manner in which Thai people deal with others (i.e., it goes against their culture to try to make you lose face), I'd rather be around the gentleness of Thai people than any other cultural types as a whole. If you don't see this, I'm guessing you have many enemies everywhere; IMO, Thais are absolutely the easiest people on earth to make friends with.

Girls, food, religion: all in the eye of the beholder, so I'll not comment.

Safe, perhaps the most debatable of my comments. I agree that their are some unsafe places, but they are few & nothing compared to living in other countries. E.g., if you get off the beaten track in the Philippines & are alone, you could possibly end up dead. Most of the violence I've witnessed in provincial cities occurs among young Thai men. I once walked into the middle of a very violent situation in Kamalasai (45' or so west of Kalasin in Isaan); all players were warm to me & did not involve me in their fight.

Police state. I could go on & on about this one. Thaksin's having been a police has nothing to do with anything. Ever come upon an accident scene in Thailand? Even when there's yellow tape, civilians walk among the police all over the crime scene; in the west, police act as though there's a dirty bomb present, shoving cameras & arresting people for the slightest perceived infractions. And how about driving? What happens when you noticie a police car nearby? Get nervous? Carefully watch your speed? Make sure your seat belt is fastened? Even coming upon a police officer by foot in the west, you tense up a bit. Never an issue in Thailand. Yes, there are bad cops, but even in the worse cases (most of the time), an apology & a little tea money & you're on your way.

Yes, I've lived in a provincial city; for a couple hundred baht, one of a couple of locals with a truck would drive me into town if I wanted to go there. Transportation has never been a problem for me anywhere; lived in Thailand for seven years without a car.

[JepSoDii]

I would agree except I can cook my apples in a 500 baht pan or a 2500 pan. The result is the same.

It costs me 500 baht to take out my Thai go go dancer for dinner and 2500 baht to take out my NYC go go dancer to dinner. May be worth it to you but not me.

I would compare the end and not the means.

This is why I said quality is relative to some people. Quite aside from the fact that Teflon is dangerous and harmful (it eventually gets digested), you're still making a sacrifice in quality to spend the same $20 on a frying pan. The result may look like the same duck and quack like the same duck, and you may think it's the same duck. But it's a duck of a different breed. And it's a different standard of living. Lower quality.

I'm just saying that while I agree it is very possible to live in Thailand for 25%, it requires quality and standards sacrifices. Those sacrifices may be easier for some than others, but comparable products are often cheaper at home.

[AYJAYDEE]

I would agree except I can cook my apples in a 500 baht pan or a 2500 pan. The result is the same.

It costs me 500 baht to take out my Thai go go dancer for dinner and 2500 baht to take out my NYC go go dancer to dinner. May be worth it to you but not me.

I would compare the end and not the means.

This is why I said quality is relative to some people. Quite aside from the fact that Teflon is dangerous and harmful (it eventually gets digested), you're still making a sacrifice in quality to spend the same $20 on a frying pan. The result may look like the same duck and quack like the same duck, and you may think it's the same duck. But it's a duck of a different breed. And it's a different standard of living. Lower quality.

I'm just saying that while I agree it is very possible to live in Thailand for 25%, it requires quality and standards sacrifices. Those sacrifices may be easier for some than others, but comparable products are often cheaper at home.

if those differences in standards are not seen as important or perhaps even seen as wasteful, then there IS no sacrifice. you judge everything thru wewstern eyes.

[The Usual Suspect]

Here, I have full medical coverage under my wife's government health insurance. Even if I didn't, heath care is very reasonable.

How is that possible.

I find health insurance the biggest obstacle, because once you get older the premiums skyrocket or they even kick you out at a certain age.

How is that possible?

Certain Gov. Depts. have a staff policy that enable spouse and children under 21 to be covered for full medical treatment and dental care. I'm not sure if the staff covered have to be of a certain rank but I do know that I'm covered under this policy as I had to register with the local Gov. hospital showing my marriage certificate and proof of residence. Age is immaterial.

Thanks Madgee, for clarifying the Gov insurance topic. I had a senior moment and totally missed the "how is that possible" in relation to the Gov. coverage. I recently registered with a Gov. hospital in Roi Et and got my "green card". My wife has been a teacher in government schools for 18 years. Her policy is a god send for me, otherwise I would be on a cash only basis.

[SeabagsFull]

Quality of life anywhere is a balance between the pros and the cons, right?

For me, the pendulum swings way to the pros side living in Thailand. Some of the most important ones are: 1. The attitude of Thai people towards life: generally easy going and appreciative of family, friends, simplicity and compassion for others. That makes Thai people great to be around and, for me at least, makes their priorities 'right'; 2. It is possible to live with reasonable outgoings in Thailand, so you can live the way you want to live and are not constantly worried about how the bills are going to get paid or struggling to find the cash for an unexpected outlay; 3. And despite all the farang claims to the contrary, the Thai 'system' makes it fairly easy to get things done (including in relation to running a business) both in terms of cost and the relatively few restrictive rules compared to other places. Sure, you have to do things 'by the book' sometimes, but if you think that is unique to Thailand, dream on, especially if you live in one of our many nanny states. On balance, Thailand is more like the wild west than the 'developed countries' we might call home, so if you need certainty and order in your life, Thailand is probably not the place for you.

I am convinced that our overall quality of life, anywhere, is more to do with our response to our surroundings than the environment itself

TimFrance, your post #78 was awesome, especially the last sentence I quoted above. On a practical level, I hated the extreme heat when I lived there, but the easy-going gentle nature of Thai people made my life there the most qualitative -- in terms of fun, excitement, peacefulness, personal growth -- seven years of my life. I am truly hoping that my Thai wife will decide she wants us to return before my 5-month-old girl is ready for school; Thai culture instills a sense of family & respect in children that's counter to the huge generational gap that's common in the west.

To The Usual Suspect #73: There is an indirect exception to the Medicare thing. If you happen to be both a U.S. military retiree AND age 65+, enrollment in Medicare A & B guarantees you Tricare for Life, which covers virtually every procedure, surgery, etc., in Thailand without going over "acceptable" rates. Yes, there are copays.

To JepSoDii #120 & #123, your posts tend heavily on quality comparisons (e.g., "higher quality [restaurant] chairs"). May I suggest that every country has its own unique "flavor." When you step into another country's reality, you want to experience it for all it's worth. If you're simply trying to import your worldly setup from your home country, then I'd ask (1) why come here at all, & (2) why respond to this post?

[A1Str8]

Many reasons:

The climate.

The women!

It is cheap. I know some posters will not agree. But I think it is cheap!

The smiles. 90% fake or for money, But I still enjoy it.

Easy the get permission to stay long time.

The food. Both the streetfood and all the good restaurants.

Thai politics!! You couldn't make it up. Super entertainment.

I became hansum without plastic surgery!

The very colourful everyday life.

 

Been here 10 years. My only regret is, that I didn't come earlier.

Agreed. I like your comments. I would add another reason to be here: when I get my drink in a plastic bag, they gimme a straw. I didn't get one while in Africa. I had to drink from the bag, so Thailand ain't so 3rd world.

[Kudel]

I came here for work. Honestly I would probably have decided to go back home by now if it wasn't for one redeeming feature - how easy it is to bang girls.

Banging a with ease is nothing to feel proud about. Everyone can do it.

Free sex is much easier to find in the West.

I agree ,just pay a joiners fee at a swingers club and you can bang everything with a heartbeat no need to travel to asia for all of that nonsense.

And coming from a country wich is well known for its cuisine i certainly do not need Americans,Brits telling me wat good food is.

Take away banging cheap woman most of you would not be in Thailand .

[Thai at Heart]

I fell in love with Thailand on my first trip here in 1978. There are so many things about the Land of Smiles that make it exciting, peaceful, & in some cases unique.

I submit, however, that your chances of having an enjoyable life in Thailand are probably better than anywhere else; that is, if you can let go of western judgmentalism at the border.

Agree with all the positives. Yes, Laem Promthep is indeed very nice with sunset.

1 can take the foreigner out if its country but cant take the country out of the foreigner. Everybody judges, thais too therefore. Things changed, at least for me, by having kids and later going to school.

Again agreeing with your positives, except............

And there's the rub. It's our own hangups, especially our inbred need to judge others based on standards we've applied to ourselves, that interferes with our ability to find true happiness.

Regarding Thais also being judgemental, we'll have to disagree on this. My impression of Thais is that they don't prejudge others on an automatic basis like we do in the west, except perhaps as related to cast. Yes, they do for "face" purposes (e.g., I knew a 19-yo Thai girl who told my wife & I that she had no problem sleeping with a 60-yo farang, but that she could never go out in public with him). But perhaps by virtue of their Buddhist beliefs, they don't come across as judgemental. I have seen exceptions to this, especially when a Thai has been around foreigners for a great deal of time. E.g., a Thai general I know spent time at Langley; at times, you almost can't tell he's Thai.

IMO you are wrong about Thais not prejudging. The difference between "them and us " is only that they keep it to themselves, innerthoughts, and/or only with fellow thais/trusted 1s. To think otherwise is naive. This especially concerning thais living abroad. Only my humble opinion though. Example; a month ago i spoke with fammember of wife, who lives in Scandinavia, about an American on a subject. She referred immediately, yes money was part of subject we were talking about, ahhhhh americans " cheap charly ".

The vast majority of ordinary Thais deal in very childish stereotypes. Half haven't left their locality let alone the country and look upon things in very simple ways.

[AYJAYDEE]

lol! as he stereotypes thais in simple ways!

[benalibina]

lol! as he stereotypes thais in simple ways!

But he is correct by stating VAST majority. Unfortunately can tell from own experience.

[AYJAYDEE]

lol! as he stereotypes thais in simple ways!

But he is correct by stating VAST majority. Unfortunately can tell from own experience.

yeah right, youve met the majority! lol

[benalibina]

lol! as he stereotypes thais in simple ways!

But he is correct by stating VAST majority. Unfortunately can tell from own experience.

yeah right, youve met the majority! lol

Yes, 55.000.000.

[AYJAYDEE]

lol! as he stereotypes thais in simple ways!

But he is correct by stating VAST majority. Unfortunately can tell from own experience.

yeah right, youve met the majority! lol

Yes, 55.000.000.

like most of your posts, bs

[JepSoDii]

"But this is Thailand it isn't back home so why do you expect to find everything the same or be the same price?"

Heh, this is amusing. Once again, I am surprised by your extrapolations and exaggerated replies (starting with you telling me that if I love the prices back home so much and I can't live without those things I should go home home). But since I made the mistake of replying to that logic in the first place, I guess I will continue to clarify one more time in the same vein: Who really said I should "expect" to find everything the same? I never did. That is an extrapolation you are making, your choice to misinterpret for the sake of argument, and not anything I said. I merely provided observation on price relative to quality. If you can't tell the difference between what I actually said and expecting everything to be the same at the same prices then I can not help you much. I honestly think you can (you don't seem to be unintelligent, but someone who likes to argue). Because you haven't actually cited examples disproving my specific, singular point by talking about comparable quality things (amenities are not the same quality). Otherwise, I agree with you: Thailand is a lot cheaper. Even 25% cheaper for overall living if we want it to be. But not 25% overall with the same quality/standard.

Your alcohol comments are well taken points, but you're now talking about whether Thailand is merely "cheaper," which I never talked about because I know it is. REMINDER: I was talking about whether it is 25% the cost on the same quality basis. Not whether it is "cheaper" or even 25% cheaper. The fact that Johnny Walker is cheaper or Singha back home is more expensive is immaterial; the question is whether it is 1/4 of the cost in Thailand vs in the UK/US/Aus, etc.

I should have known that you might not have read the pots and frying pans analogy as what it was actually intended to be (you read little else I said as it was intended), which is just an example I used. Like the sheets. I can come up with more examples, but that and the sheets were just the most recent that popped into my head. No surprise you elected to use a psuedo-insult and told me I need to get out more; you're the same guy who makes lifestyle value judgements for others he knows nothing about: telling me I don't need electronics when you know nothing about me.

What I do not dispute is that Thailand has some things that are more expensive (products which are not locally produced) and a lot of things that are less, (esp when there is a domestic alternative). If you want the domestic alternative, in the case of most consumer products, you do make a quality sacrifice. Durability, safety, materials quality, etc. No big deal to many of us; I was merely making an observation based on one claim to be able to live the "same standard of living" at 25% of the price, not finding acceptable domestic alternatives with lower quality.

And I'm not using equivalent brands as a comparable standard of living assessment, just equivalent quality; of course imported brands are more. I'm just looking for comparable quality (necessary for standard of living) or close. For people that think the 500 baht sheets at Tesco are the same quality as the $75 egyptian cotton 400 thread count sheets back home, or a 500-600B Teflon pan is the same as a 1400-2000B stainless pan back home, you will not be bothered by the drop in quality. But it is still a sacrifice in quality you are making, whether you recognize it or not, and whether you care or not. Like the guy who said the result (cooked food) is the same: He doesn't care (or care that ingesting the materials used to make Teflon, which happens over time, is cancer causing). He doesn't deny it's a drop in quality; he just doesn't mind. And as I have said before, living at 25% the cost of living in Thailand is easily possible when you make adjustments like this. But they are what they are.

I've happily made many of them too and still consider my Thailand quality of life better overall, mostly because of what I do with my time, and I do not mind making product quality sacrifices for most of the things I use (despite the fact I pointed out they exist). I do no consider quality of life and "standard of living" to be the same. The latter is more material oriented and was the basis of my initial comment. Take the apartment I have. It's considered western standard, not Thai style. But it's still not all that high quality (fake hardwood doesn't make it high quality, but the high quality stone and tile in the bathroom does). I know if you plop that same unit down in my area (suburbs of one of the top 10 US cities by population), it would be about 2.5x more. Perhaps slightly less because of substandard building materials, thin walls, etc. But the pool, the gym, the security guard, etc, about 2.5x more. Put it inside the city, maybe 3x. But not 4x unless you're from Central London, Manhattan, Honolulu, Hong Kong, etc. There you might be looking at 5x.

I will also point out my cell phone here is 25% of what it was in the US! One of the few things where it's really this much of a comparable savings. That was a pleasant surprise, because it's so much less than what I was used to, where everything else tends to be half or one third, but not 1/4. I don't mind it being 3G instead of LTE back home, even though one could make an argument that's a quality sacrifice.

Interestingly, the poster who initially said she could live the same standard of living in terms of standard of living (which I questioned), IM'd me and told me where she comes from: one of the world's 5 most expensive places. In her unique situation, yes, she's experiencing a huge drop and spends about 25% of what she did back home. But I'd spend 50% in my home area what she spends where she is from. So if you're from one of the world's most expensive areas, yes, Thailand is probably usually close to being 25% of the cost or close to it. But if you come from more moderate cost of living areas, it's very very difficult for me to see where I can spend only 25% of what I would for the same standard of living back home . . . except for cell phone service. Oh, and oysters!

Again, I agree I can live here at 25% of the cost of back home, but not at the same standard of living. I specifically cited "comparable levels of living and luxury/materials." That means you can't replace Egyptian cotton sheets, bought at $75 in the US and which would cost $150 in Thailand, and replacing them with the 500 baht sheet set you can have at Tesco and call it the "same standard" just because they are both sheets! They aren't the "same standard."

You overreact to me merely saying Thailand is not 25% of the cost of living compared to back home with the same standard of living. Please re-read what I said, and what it was in response to, and take it in the proper context.

But this is Thailand it isn't back home so why do you expect to find everything the same or be the same price?

Some things are cheaper here. Some are more expensive.

On the whole it's cheaper here to LIVE.

I should clarify that I was referring to imported alcohol, not SangSom or Seagrams and other similar level stuff. That the alcohol import tax is 250-400% exists is not debatable. Yes, Thai beer cost about 27-33 baht in the stores, but that's not cheaper then similar low-mid quality beer in the US. I can buy similar beer there for less actually.

Johnny Walker for example is cheaper here in Thailand than it is in the UK.

Thai beer in the UK is quite pricey compared to local stuff.

Tends to be the way for imported beer and alcohol.

I know in the UK you cannot get beer as cheap as you get it here in bars (supermarkets probably as there's often deals on).

It's cheap here when you go to bars.

I get that we can live somewhat comfortably for 8000 in BKK, and a similar place in Chiang Mai would be 6-7k. But while quality is relative to some, I know what 8000 buys in Chiang Mai and I bet it's a little more more than BKK. So, your 8000B apartment, when compared to the same building with the same materials and the same luxury level and quality back home in a similar type of city, it's not gonna be 32,000 baht. It might be 16-25k, but not 32k.

Doesn't really matter what you pay where I am from you'll not have a pool, gym or anything else on site.

So I'd say Bangkok wins in terms of value and facilities on offer.

Another example, a 600 baht Teflon pan in Thailand does not replace a 2400 baht multi clad stainless fry pan just so you can say Thailand is 25% of equivalent and it's equivalent because they are both pans. The Teflon pan is about the same in the US.

If frying pans are something that make a big difference to your life I think you need to get out more.

Something I'll never fret over.

[JepSoDii]

To JepSoDii #120 & #123, your posts tend heavily on quality comparisons (e.g., "higher quality [restaurant] chairs"). May I suggest that every country has its own unique "flavor." When you step into another country's reality, you want to experience it for all it's worth. If you're simply trying to import your worldly setup from your home country, then I'd ask (1) why come here at all, & (2) why respond to this post?

Yes, you certainly may suggest that. And I agree. I chose to reply to a specific post/claim with an "is it really so?" type question to someone who said she lives with the "same standard of living" at 25% of the cost. Why did I reply? I replied because I wondered how a statement that was already in this post could be true when my experience is the opposite. I responded to this post completely on topic.

May I suggest the following:

This does not mean I ignore the unique qualities of Thailand.

This does not mean I am not experiencing Thailand and its culture.

This does not mean I need to import my country's reality and its worldly setup.

You're merely making assumptions about what I am doing or trying to do based on my opinion on costs. That opinion is that in my experience, to make Thailand's cost of living 25% of what it is back home (for most of us), it is not possible with the same "standard of living" (quality of things is important to living standard; it is not to 'quality of life' per se.) To make observations on the market does not mean I am doing those things which you evidently think it means I am doing.

It only means I am questioning whether the same standard of living is really only 25%. I wasn't criticizing those who willingly make a sacrifice in quality to keep costs low. I do it too! And I have said so. But I know I am making a sacrifice in quality. I don't mind. But I also don't consider it the same standard of living. I happily give up those elements of standard of living in order to be here, because my quality of life, overall, is better.

The reason my post tends heavily on quality comparisons is because I engaged on someone else's post on quality comparisons (e.g., standard of living).

That's all I was saying.

[AYJAYDEE]

To JepSoDii #120 & #123, your posts tend heavily on quality comparisons (e.g., "higher quality [restaurant] chairs"). May I suggest that every country has its own unique "flavor." When you step into another country's reality, you want to experience it for all it's worth. If you're simply trying to import your worldly setup from your home country, then I'd ask (1) why come here at all, & (2) why respond to this post?

Yes, you certainly may suggest that. And I agree. I chose to reply to a specific post/claim with an "is it really so?" type question to someone who said she lives with the "same standard of living" at 25% of the cost. Why did I reply? I replied because I wondered how a statement that was already in this post could be true when my experience is the opposite. I responded to this post completely on topic.

May I suggest the following:

This does not mean I ignore the unique qualities of Thailand.

This does not mean I am not experiencing Thailand and its culture.

This does not mean I need to import my country's reality and its worldly setup.

You're merely making assumptions about what I am doing or trying to do based on my opinion on costs. That opinion is that in my experience, to make Thailand's cost of living 25% of what it is back home (for most of us), it is not possible with the same "standard of living" (quality of things is important to living standard; it is not to 'quality of life' per se.) To make observations on the market does not mean I am doing those things which you evidently think it means I am doing.

It only means I am questioning whether the same standard of living is really only 25%. I wasn't criticizing those who willingly make a sacrifice in quality to keep costs low. I do it too! And I have said so. But I know I am making a sacrifice in quality. I don't mind. But I also don't consider it the same standard of living. I happily give up those elements of standard of living in order to be here, because my quality of life, overall, is better.

The reason my post tends heavily on quality comparisons is because I engaged on someone else's post on quality comparisons (e.g., standard of living).

That's all I was saying.

news for ya, it isnt a sacrifice to everyone. these "things" that you demand have quality are completely unnecessary to many and even considered wasteful by some.

[SeabagsFull]

The reason my post tends heavily on quality comparisons is because I engaged on someone else's post on quality comparisons (e.g., standard of living).

That's all I was saying.

JepSoDii, thanks for your civil reply. I understand the reasons for your points. What I think you're missing, however, is that "quality" is a subjective term.

Have you ever heard the expression, "one person's thousand-dollar rose garden is worth 10 cents to her neighbor?"

When I built my house in Udon Thani, I installed central air conditioning. Just after the ducting was installed, I took a couple of Thai friends to see the progress. One, owner of much of the landscape kitty-corner to Central Plaza, told me that he didn't see the need for the central AC, that it was a waste of money. After living in that house for a few years, I came to share his perspective.

I could never enjoy eating in a bamboo-hut restaurant in the U.S. Too many preconceptions of why the hut is bamboo, e.g., not to mention being used to eating in better places the rest of the time. In Thailand, however, I am so relaxed & peaceful in such places. Case in point, there's a restaurant built to quality standards I think you'd enjoy near Nong Prajak; I ate there once & was miserable. Instead of "quality" I saw arrogance & wastefulness, & felt that there was something not right with the atmosphere.

Prices in Thailand can be high if you need to purchase imported things or stuff that's geared to a higher standard of living (e.g., buying paper towels, Kleenex, Smoked Cheddar Cheese, etc. at Tesco Lotus). But if you can live like most Thais do, even the modestly wealthier ones, then Thailand is extremely less expensive than living in the west. One big exception is imported cars, though if I remember correctly, Japanese auto tariffs are scheduled to cease in a few years.

[wellred]

3 words. Patong New Tiger.

[Bpuumike]

Why live anywhere when you can always go somewhere else ?

Indeed, if you weren't here you would only be some place else

[Sealbash]

After the first 6 months, financial reasons.

I would gladly move back to San Francisco if I could afford my previous lifestyle without downgrading.

 

I hope I can get over there for Christmas this year and spend some time with folks who have some morals.

You mean spend time with people who share e same morals as yourself? Morals are very subjective. Are your morals better than the Amish people? Better than Europeans? Better than Chinese? Where I come from, people frown on the morality of California.

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