Hazard For Brits Returning To UK

[chiang mai]

Folks want to live in a society that is 100% free and 100% safe, well you can't, you can have most of one and some of the other, I vote for mostly safe and that's the way it is today.

[NanLaew]

I am still confused about who did the faux seizure at the airport. Was it the UKBA or was it HMRC?

His letter of complaint is addressed to the "Chief Officer, UKBA, etc." but was a "female customs officer" that hauled him back, well after the Immigration desks no?

[uptheos]

I am still confused about who did the faux seizure at the airport. Was it the UKBA or was it HMRC?

His letter of complaint is addressed to the "Chief Officer, UKBA, etc." but was a "female customs officer" that hauled him back, well after the Immigration desks no?

Customs is part of the UKBA

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/customs-travel/customs/

[GarryUK]

What must you be told?

The customs officer must tell you what you are suspected of: for example, I have reasonable grounds to suspect that you are carrying illegal drugs. Although you should ask why you are suspected of a particular offence, the customs officer does not, in fact, have to tell you.

Huh? "The customs officer must tell you" but then "the customs officer does not, in fact, have to tell you". So they have to or not?

[Baerboxer]

How is this thread relevant to Thailand and ThaiVisa? A Pom gets hassled by British customs...so what? He could have come from anywhere in the world and experienced the same treatment.

So ....?

Anyone can be subjected to this, that's the way of the world.

God knows there are enough people whining about the treatment by Thai immigration and the 90 day reports etc.

Suck it up princess...when you go through customs you are just another piece of fresh meat for them to do with as they see fit.

By the way they do use profiling...rightly or wrongly maybe you were a "fit".

Read the post and see if you can guess which country the OP lives in ? Then think if there are some other people, who live in the country the OP lives in, who might be travelling to the UK and find this interesting.

If you don't think its relevant - don't read it !

[GarryUK]

How is this thread relevant to Thailand and ThaiVisa? A Pom gets hassled by British customs...so what? He could have come from anywhere in the world and experienced the same treatment.

So ....?

While technically you're right, it would be more relevant if this had happened to him at Suvarnabhumi, he was at least coming home from Thailand so his post is effectively a warning to others returning home (to the UK) from Thailand of what might happen to them.

[saab]

Well done

[saab]

Your calmness after such a long journey is a credit to you, I doubt I could have contained myself, good luck with the complaint and I look forward to another very well written post

[Docno]

Friend had a similar experience returning to Australia from either Thailand or Bali. In that case, they didn't seize his devices. They just went through his files (for a very long period) in his presence ... they seemed mostly interested in photos. Like you, he was traveling alone. Of course, they found nothing, but he did not receive any real apology after the prolonged hassle.

If you go to the 11 minute mark of this video, you'll see the same thing happens in Canada as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBXrh7dfHhw

And I'm sure it would therefore also happen in the US.

I'm glad I fly mostly into Singapore. It might be a police state to some, but this sort of thing never happens. I'm usually in a taxi within 20-30 minutes of hitting the runway, no questions asked. [When I once went to Oz with a former Singaporean girlfriend, we were pulled aside (in Perth immigration) and grilled about how we knew each other and why we had traveled to places like Cambodia and Laos, etc etc. ... ridiculous].

[ChoakMyDee]

I'm sorry but what you describe as a hazard is nothing more than a part of a travellers everyday life, if nothing to hide, no problems, get over it and get used to it.

Oh yes, just roll up your sleeve and bend over, won't hurt a bit. We're keeping you safe! Aren't we great!

I have found that when one submits to bullying, it emboldens the bully.

This crap is not normal, to be expected, can't do nothing about it, just a part of a traveler's every day life...if you got nothing to hide....That's why they get away with it, and why it will keep getting worse. It wasn't always this way, and should NOT be this way now. People have to speak up.

Reminds me of a quote by Ed Meese, Reagan's Attorney General:

U.S News: You criticize the Miranda ruling, which gives suspects the right to have a lawyer present before police questioning. Shouldn't people, who may be innocent, have such protection?

Meese: Suspects who are innocent of a crime should. But the thing is, you don't have many suspects who are innocent of a crime. That's contradictory. If a person is innocent of a crime, then he is not a suspect.

I already posted my recent nightmarish encounter with the thugs of US Customs & Border Protection, so won't drag that all up again.

Resist tyranny.

Can you provide a link to your "encounter with the thugs of US Customs & Border Protection"? I'd like to read your story. Thanks.

[TC1]

Again some great comments and some plain silly ones by what I call the BUB (Butch Up Brigade. I did not make the post to complain here, but merely to warn what is happening, Some people clearly appreciate the info. As with some other contributors, I am dismayed by the comments which suggest one must bite one's lip and accept abuse. Well, not this boy. Somebody stamps on my foot, whether or not I lose the following fight they are going to get at least bloody nose be it some goon or an abusive government dept. To lose my claim, the Border Agency must explain why they did not adhere to their own set down rules. When a government dept puts itself above the rules it is given, we at least then know where we stand. I am not one to mildly accept that position. 'Chiang Mai' (and a couple of others) would have been a real find for the Gestapo, as their personal philosophy appears to be "Yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir." Rejecting that is "spitting one's dummy out"? Please! I'm sorry to have to say that those who think like that make the idea of 'The Bulldog Breed' laughable.

Edited November 1, 2013 by TC1

[tomyumchai]

well, i was yet again pulled by some blonde at heathrow in august and as usual she had a face like a slapped a** and an attitude to match. so i knew where it was going and it started out like this;

"hello sir, where have you just travelled from?"

"bangkok"

" and what was the purpose of your trip?"

"F******g prostitutes......"

" RIGHT! can you follow me to this bench over here please?"

now a lot more predictable questions ensued but it was when she opened my bag that i had difficulty keeping it sensible.

"why do you have a crash helmet with no insides in here?"

"im allergic to the lining"....

"why do you have several motorcycle parts in here?"

"cos the whole bike wouldnt fit".....

"where is your laptop?"

"can you see a laptop?.... nope, me neither".....

"why is there no memory card in your camera?"

"there isnt?.....i must have left it in my laptop"

"and where is that laptop now?"

"it was in thailand when i left it, now would you like me to P** through a tea strainer so that i can go catch my coach?"

that didnt go down well and no doubt ill be magically 'randomly' selected on next years return as well.......oh hum.

Edited November 1, 2013 by tomyumchai

[sustento]

These ridiculous remarks about the Gestapo are a real insult to those who actually did suffer at their hands. You got stopped by a stroppy civil servant who took your laptop. No-one ripped your fingernails out with pliers. No-one attached a generator to your nuts and spun the handle. You ought to be ashamed of yourself making such absurd comparisons.

Edited November 1, 2013 by sustento

[TC1]

@Sustento - if you knew a little history of the Gestapo, you would know it was minor abuses leading to more serious abuses that culminated with ripping people's finger-nails out.

[Bpuumike]

Very interesting reading.... However, those who use "You tube" try logging onto UK or Australian Border Security, there are many uploads, and I tell you what, they make very interesting viewing. Watch carefully the customs officers on their approach, their attitudes etc. 99% of the time their suspicions are justified, and they apprehend.

They are not idiots nor Dummies, they are actually very clever, so if they have reasons to suspect, given the many red flags they observe, then that is professionalism, and Kudos to them!

Now, and this is not a barb, there are bad tempered and rude persons going through these check points, and I stand up and be counted as one of. About 25 years ago after a disastrous flight from HK to LHR, and I mean disastrous with a capital D, I queued up at LHR Immigration, to find myself at the front of the line about 40 minutes, only to be told by a turbaned Indian, with a not so British accent that I was in the wrong Immigration queue.

I am not proud to say that being exhausted I responded 'And you Sir Are In The Wrong Country. Cue ringing of alarm bells and a fast response by armed Police. Nightmare !!

Last time I arrived Sydney about 07:00 the Customs Officer was completely drunk. Ignored my declaration of some 1,000 cigarettes but passed us down the line to a colleague because the wife declared she had some chilis. All handled in a very civilised manner, unlike the UK.

[sustento]

@Sustento - if you knew a little history of the Gestapo, you would know it was minor abuses leading to more serious abuses that culminated with ripping people's finger-nails out.

So we can expect Border Agency staff to be issued with pliers and generators in the future?

[MAJIC]

Thanks for your response Charlie, but guessing that the officers 'reacted' to my disposition is irrelevant. Either behaviour is abusive, which may be countered by appropriate action, or it is not. The point here is that any officer may seize the personal possessions of any national re-entering the country on any pretext. An internal directive to 'check devices more thoroughly' is one thing, but to seize them for any amount of time is something else altogether and is directly opposed to the stated written policy. Basically, an officer who has an aversion to bald men, or long-haired men etc., etc., may exercise his prejudice against them. The point of my post is that YOU (or any reader) could be next.

You matched the description of a paedophile on their 'watch' list.

Best never to reveal anything personal when questioned by officials anywhere.

'loose lips sinks ships' as they used to say.

Correct! I often get stopped travelling alone from Bangkok. Once I had 4 copy watches,5 or 6 Copy DVDs, and 400 Cigarettes (instead of the 200 allowance)The Officer had no interest in my contraband. But he looked at every single photo,of about 150,I had developed in Thailand.Which I figured,he was looking for signs of a Pedophile.

Edited November 1, 2013 by MAJIC

[wooloomooloo]

There's a certain way to deal with officialdom to expedite the experience. Be calm, courteous, and answer questions in as few a words as possible.

I had the occasional run-in with the law when I was a teen and extricated myself from many a situation with light humour and civility. It's stood me in good stead over the years. I'm not going to get upset at a grilling from customs as I'm aware that it's not personal. If I am singled out for the personal touch then I'd invoke the cooperation mechanism. It works like a dream and I've no need to waste further time on complaints to Fanny [Theresa] May.

Continue with the bravado of the 'not this boy' spiel and see where it gets you. We all grow up eventually.

[JoeLing]

I always thought UK customs where one of the friendliest ones in the world.
No where else I travelled in the world customs would great you with a smile
and "Good morning, Sir. How was your trip" - "Where do you come from"
(off course they know that already) and "What's the purpose of your visit. "
How long do you intend to stay" stamp in passport and "Have a nice day, Sir"

Everywhere else it's usually just a stern look at you, look at passport, look
at you. Then the usual where do you come from, what's the purpose of
your visit, how long do you intend to stay.

Now sometimes a few years back, there was a directive for border personnel

"Not to smile to customers" and "look more severe" So the smiles disappeared

but it's still "Good morning Sir" and "Have a nice day, Sir"

I never have been pulled over when I walked through the green channel but
as somebody mentioned earlier, appearance and attitude will ultimately
decide how you are treated. Of course, if the customs officer just won the
lottery, he might be more lenient and if he had a bad night, he might not.
Now if that's right or wrong, who cares, that's just the way it is. If we like it

or not.

Now I'm sure if on a simple question of why did you go to ......... , the answer
would be along the line of, hmmm...., well...., let's say: " My mate Gary Glitter
recommended it. But he said to keep it quiet or else all the UK customs officers
will be nipping over there to escape from the man-women they have to work with."
then I'm pretty sure, the shit would hit the fan.

So, could it be you bought it on by yourself? No one else's fault but your own?
Attitude combined with appearance?

Maybe "Beware of bad attitude when returning To UK" would be a better title?

Just a thought.

[chiang mai]

well, i was yet again pulled by some blonde at heathrow in august and as usual she had a face like a slapped a** and an attitude to match. so i knew where it was going and it started out like this;

"hello sir, where have you just travelled from?"

"bangkok"

" and what was the purpose of your trip?"

"F******g prostitutes......"

" RIGHT! can you follow me to this bench over here please?"

now a lot more predictable questions ensued but it was when she opened my bag that i had difficulty keeping it sensible.

"why do you have a crash helmet with no insides in here?"

"im allergic to the lining"....

"why do you have several motorcycle parts in here?"

"cos the whole bike wouldnt fit".....

"where is your laptop?"

"can you see a laptop?.... nope, me neither".....

"why is there no memory card in your camera?"

"there isnt?.....i must have left it in my laptop"

"and where is that laptop now?"

"it was in thailand when i left it, now would you like me to P** through a tea strainer so that i can go catch my coach?"

that didnt go down well and no doubt ill be magically 'randomly' selected on next years return as well.......oh hum.

I reckon that if I were that customs officer and you spoke to me like that I'd do my level best to make sure we made your life as miserable as possible for as long as possible.

[jacko45k]

Something triggered this.

I have come in to Manchester from BKK via the Middle East so many times without a single stop.

Perhaps the hand baggage only, I come in with a near empty suitcase.

I did get it once coming in from Middle East via Amsterdam...... long time ago.

[MAJIC]

@uptheos. I have not yet got my stuff back. On the very day the Border Agency received my Notice of Prosecution, they called me about identifying my computer. It seems they have seized so many that they can't keep track of them, Why mention Thai? On any given news report about something negative about Thailand or its people, there is a type of expat or regular visitor who will charge in and stereotype all Thais to that bad example, as if the country they left is perfect. This syndrome is based on the person's need for a sense of national superiority to the one they have chosed to live in/marry into. But that's another subject.

Am gonna take issue with one small point, and take it slightly off your main topic.

I'm also from the UK, and although I am quick to point out the deficiencies of most things here in Thailand, I would in no way say that the UK is perfect. Indeed, if it was, I'd still be there.

I think what you'll find is that a lot of people who post negative comments about Thailand aren't doing so because of any nationalistic superiority, simply that they are (for the most part) able to see past the bullshit here and see things for how they are.

Hand in hand with the above, I'll go further and say that if there was a forum such as this in ANY country in the world, and I was residing in said country, I'd continue to do the same thing there as I do here. It's not to put Thailand down, it's not because of any sense of nationalistic pride (I have very little if any for the UK and it's citizens), it's not to make myself feel superior . . . it's simply a way to vent a few frustrations and as a reaction to the sense of disappointment that many feel when it "could" be so much better somewhere than it actually is.

And bear in mind also, as a Brit, we complain about anything and everything, no matter where we are. We're never happy and can always find something to complain about. If it wasn't the farcical attempt at Governing we see currently here, it would be something else, the weather, the food, the elephant that crapped outside my gate. Something, anything.

Peace.

EDIT: Going back to your original topic, I've also had issues with Customs/Immigration in the UK and found them all (to a man/woman) to be rude, ignorant, arrogant, racist, insensitive, idiotic, overly suspicious, abusive of power/authority and generally complete <deleted> that can't be reasoned with. I hope that settles the balance just a little with regards the negative comments about Thailand.

I wonder why,i've always had decent respectful treatment with UK Immigration?

[chiang mai]

Something triggered this.

I have come in to Manchester from BKK via the Middle East so many times without a single stop.

Perhaps the hand baggage only, I come in with a near empty suitcase.

I did get it once coming in from Middle East via Amsterdam...... long time ago.

I agree, no matter how much some of us may hate offiicaldom, UK Customs does not simply demand a persons laptop without some sort of explanation and without providing a reciept, if the story is true it is only partially so and there is important missing information.

[xen]

I'm sorry but what you describe as a hazard is nothing more than a part of a travellers everyday life, if nothing to hide, no problems, get over it and get used to it.

I disagree - my latest visit to the UK a few months ago was just for a week.

I work, bank, pretty much do everything on my computer - If it was confiscated I would have to buy another one and re-sync to my back up.

But, don't they confiscate hard drives too - that means my backup is also gone.

I'd be crippled....

There is no way this is a normal part of travelling - the confiscation of computers IMO is extreme and I to would object, complain, kick up a fuss and draw charges.

However, I have no issues against a search which lasts 30mins, they can even turn on my computer and glance through the files, but I find the confiscation without apparent reason huge issue.

We all run a risk of damage to our PC's, theft of them or loss of data by negotiating various electronic pathways, anywhere. Anyone who doesn't back up their data into the cloud or similar runs a risk hence it's a part of the cost of travelling/doing business - data backed up into the cloud, a tablet or 3G phone as backup for application execution (not a luxury these days) and who cares what the customs guys do, you may see things differently.

Scuse me if i am ignorant about backing up on the cloud but if there was anything electronic you wanted to get into another country with out the authorities knowing and taking a chance passing the customs section of the airport, could you just load into the cloud on another computer so your travel computer is clean and then on arrival just download from the cloud again ? This would mean getting hard drives confiscated just a waste of time and if this is possible then customs personnel ,not being dummies . would know this. Or am i missing something about the cloud and/or would this be illegal ? I have never used the cloud to back up, just portable hard drives for my photos , i tunes and maybe a few movies to watch and perhaps my Agoda Hotel vouchers. Or email yourself and not even use the cloud or hard-drive . It just sounds like a waste of time to confiscate a computer.

[impulse]

xen, I don't think you can do anything in the cloud without the authorities knowing.

Your suggestion sounds great if your information is required for you to function (like my hard drive data for my job), and for that I appreciate the OP's heads up.

That way, if a zealous customs inspector keeps my computer for an inspection, I can simply pony up a few hundred dollars and spend a day of my life getting a new computer up and running.

But that doesn't really seem fair, does it?

[chiang mai]

I frequently email myself with attached documents and then use another machine at my destination to reetrieve and use them, most email/cloud suppliers have a pilcy against certain types of content although whether it can be detected or not remains unclear.

[FiftyTwo]

Folks want to live in a society that is 100% free and 100% safe, well you can't, you can have most of one and some of the other, I vote for mostly safe and that's the way it is today.

You still haven't answered me!

How exactly do you think customs and immigration can keep you either free or safe?

[FiftyTwo]

Folks want to live in a society that is 100% free and 100% safe, well you can't, you can have most of one and some of the other, I vote for mostly safe and that's the way it is today.

He who gives up freedom for safety, deserves and will receive neither.

[Jip99]

@uptheos. I have not yet got my stuff back. On the very day the Border Agency received my Notice of Prosecution, they called me about identifying my computer. It seems they have seized so many that they can't keep track of them, Why mention Thai? On any given news report about something negative about Thailand or its people, there is a type of expat or regular visitor who will charge in and stereotype all Thais to that bad example, as if the country they left is perfect. This syndrome is based on the person's need for a sense of national superiority to the one they have chosed to live in/marry into. But that's another subject.

Am gonna take issue with one small point, and take it slightly off your main topic.

I'm also from the UK, and although I am quick to point out the deficiencies of most things here in Thailand, I would in no way say that the UK is perfect. Indeed, if it was, I'd still be there.

I think what you'll find is that a lot of people who post negative comments about Thailand aren't doing so because of any nationalistic superiority, simply that they are (for the most part) able to see past the bullshit here and see things for how they are.

Hand in hand with the above, I'll go further and say that if there was a forum such as this in ANY country in the world, and I was residing in said country, I'd continue to do the same thing there as I do here. It's not to put Thailand down, it's not because of any sense of nationalistic pride (I have very little if any for the UK and it's citizens), it's not to make myself feel superior . . . it's simply a way to vent a few frustrations and as a reaction to the sense of disappointment that many feel when it "could" be so much better somewhere than it actually is.

And bear in mind also, as a Brit, we complain about anything and everything, no matter where we are. We're never happy and can always find something to complain about. If it wasn't the farcical attempt at Governing we see currently here, it would be something else, the weather, the food, the elephant that crapped outside my gate. Something, anything.

Peace.

EDIT: Going back to your original topic, I've also had issues with Customs/Immigration in the UK and found them all (to a man/woman) to be rude, ignorant, arrogant, racist, insensitive, idiotic, overly suspicious, abusive of power/authority and generally complete <deleted> that can't be reasoned with. I hope that settles the balance just a little with regards the negative comments about Thailand.

I wonder why,i've always had decent respectful treatment with UK Immigration?

Me too.

The Old Git must be cringing at these posts.

[SantiSuk]

Reading threads like this ramps up a feeling of bad will towards immigration officials, which is likely to damage your interests next time you get asked anything by an immigration officer.

Repeat after me, and ten times before going through a border, immigration officials are normal people who are just doing their job; I must be sunny and polite; I must suspend my normal tendency to regard anyone in authority as a moron

OK ... up to you ... if you want to live life the hard way ....