'Those accountable for 2010 should face court'

[indyuk]

The person who should be held accountable for 2010 lives in Dubai and carries a Montenegro passport. 2010 was a slow-motion coup attempt.

It was not a coup attempt. The coup occurred, the government than was overthrown, by street violence,.murder, arson and intimidation, brought about by large sums of money from a foreign entity. Now the government has been bought and paid for, Big Brother will control the present by changing history. Zero hour will happen and all actions the occurred from 2000 - 2006 will be white washed.

Just exactly which planet do you come. The two of these politicians are pieces of sh-te out of the same system. Both of them are so consumed with their own image that they are loathsome. However from the point of view of getting things done and an understanding of what both the Thai people and their country needs at this time, Thaksin smells slightly sweeter. Ask the World Bank. Edited November 3, 2013 by indyuk

[Tatsujin]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Oh, fab4, you really are deaf, dumb and blind. Were you even here at that time? Did you walk the streets? Have your life and business interrupted? Did you not read or see ANYTHING that went on? Or are you yet another foreigner blind to what is going on around them (assuming you are even here)?

[fab4]

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

You have proof of this? You could be an important witness. Have you presented this "evidence" to the DSI ?

If you don't have proof, we must assume you rather than Abhisit are not telling the truth.

He doesn't have a shit, he is just trolling.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually my apologies, suthep signed the order as Director of CRES, abhisit obviously knew nothing about it, of course.

There's this from the Khao Sod newspaper. The original is in Thai. This is the only english language link I could find. Apparently there is a link on the Asian Correspondent site but I haven't found that yet. There was also a seperate corroborating report on the TAN Network but once that went down all stories on the web published by them disappeared.

Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:00 AM

Finally, former deputy prime minister for security and one-time head of the Center for the Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) Suthep Thaugsuban has admitted that a leaked document showing that the center had ordered security officers to use live rounds during last year’s protests is in fact authentic. This is important as it may be the first time the usually tenacious politician has conceded to such a controversial revelation. The acceptance also highlights another defining characteristic of Suthep.

Ahead of his final submission, the outgoing secretary-general of the Democrat party lashed out at the press for ‘distorting’ the documents to paint the nation’s security authorities in a negative light. He pointed out that the documents disseminated by the press omitted the dates they were drafted in an effort to imply that they were premature. This is demonstrably untrue. In the spread found in Khao Sod Newspaper, the three pages of the CRES order clearly are dated April 10 and 13. The print even bares a caption indicating that the pages are dated. Even if the display was ‘distorted’, it was not done in the way the former deputy premier so angrily claimed. http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/suthep-and-the-use-of-live-rounds-against-red-shirts/

Suthep had originally insisted that he signed the order on the 13th but as usual he was lying and eventually admitted he signed it on the 10th April which is pretty obvious now because those 25 people didn't die of rubber bullet disease. Anything more to add, Skywalker69?

[Tatsujin]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Just in case you were not here at the time and in case you don't read anything other than the red lies/propaganda, let me point out a few things to you:

- The protests started at the beginning of March so has been ongoing already for nearly 4 weeks by April 10th, causing untold disruption, money lost, businesses affected, travel restricted, the list goes on.

- It was during this time (March to April) that the majority of the grenade attacks occurred, but of course the peaceloving, friendly, non-armed reds had absolutely nothing to do with this

- The SoE was implemented on 8th April, banning political assemblies of more than five people . . . the protestors were warned repeatedly what would happen if they remained, they chose to ignore the warning

- Yes, live ammunition was used from 10th April onwards, just as the protestors had been warned would happen, there were no lies, a warning was given out and ignored

- After 4 weeks of chaos up to April 10th, what would you call a last resort? What would have been a better resolution to the terrorism exhibited during that period of time by the reds in your tiny little mind?

The list goes on . . . you might want to research what actually happened . . .

[Skywalker69]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Every so often a new red apologist comes on line spouting the junk they peddle to the red troops. It just comes out of thin air. You wonder where our old friends from the boiler room are these days.

Their problem is whether to support Thaksin's deal or be an unhappy red. Trying to reconcile what has been up to now unconditional support for Thaksin with the reds being played as disposable soldiers must be quite galling. Since, however, the reds are ultimately bought and paid for, their future lies four-squarely in being Thaksin's reserve army. For now though, just lump it lads.

I think the only thing thats new is the nic.

[fab4]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Every so often a new red apologist comes on line spouting the junk they peddle to the red troops. It just comes out of thin air. You wonder where our old friends from the boiler room are these days.

Their problem is whether to support Thaksin's deal or be an unhappy red. Trying to reconcile what has been up to now unconditional support for Thaksin with the reds being played as disposable soldiers must be quite galling. Since, however, the reds are ultimately bought and paid for, their future lies four-squarely in being Thaksin's reserve army. For now though, just lump it lads.

I just like to let the facts outshine the hyperbole and lies. Surely you can't argue with that. Do you believe that the truth was that abhisit authorised the use of live ammunition as the last resort? Honestly, do you?

The facts are that suthep as director of CRES authorised the use of live ammunition on the 10th April. Thats it, nothing to argue about. But, for pointing that out, I'm a red apologist? I think the amnesty bill is a stupid idea but that is not the statement that I was correcting, was it?

[Gandtee]

What was the leader of the country, whose job iwa to protect its citizens from anarchy, being led by loose cannon military men, supposed to do? Stand back and do nothing as the country dissolved into civil war, incited by a convicted ex Prime Minister?? Of course not. Lethal weapons were used by the protesters and turned so called peaceful protests into something threatening a major upheaval and a threat to Thailand's stability. The person who should be facing the courts, Thai or International, is the man who gave the go ahead for the deaths of nearly 3000 Thai citizens, guilty or otherwise, in the purge on drugs, and the Tak Bai massacre.

[billd766]

The person who should be held accountable for 2010 lives in Dubai and carries a Montenegro passport. 2010 was a slow-motion coup attempt.

It was not a coup attempt. The coup occurred, the government than was overthrown, by street violence,.murder, arson and intimidation, brought about by large sums of money from a foreign entity. Now the government has been bought and paid for, Big Brother will control the present by changing history. Zero hour will happen and all actions the occurred from 2000 - 2006 will be white washed.

Just exactly which planet do you come. The two of these politicians are pieces of sh-te out of the same system. Both of them are so consumed with their own image that they are loathsome. However from the point of view of getting things done and an understanding of what both the Thai people and their country needs at this time, Thaksin smells slightly sweeter. Ask the World Bank.

Please explain to me and the TVF in general what you mean by,

(your words): Thaksin smells slightly sweeter. Ask the World Bank.

Edited November 3, 2013 by billd766

[473geo]

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
'Those accountable for 2010 should face court'

You guys better get on to the Nation..........oops......too late

[Robby nz]

Please explain to me and the TVF in general what you mean by,

(your words): Thaksin smells slightly sweeter. Ask the World Bank.

I suppose it depends what you are used to smelling.

If it is PT and red BS then Thaksin could smell sweeter, but that is debatable.

[ggold]

The person who should be held accountable for 2010 lives in Dubai and carries a Montenegro passport. 2010 was a slow-motion coup attempt.

Actually he carries a Thai Passport! Dear sister gave it to him soon after he gained power!

[Rich teacher]

Oh his integrity...his honesty...his patience...OMG!! How gullible can people be? This man lies & deceives more than a whore drops her drawers. Why doesn't he tell us the one about being the democratically elected PM while Anupong had a gun stuck up everyone else's arse.

[fab4]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Oh, fab4, you really are deaf, dumb and blind. Were you even here at that time? Did you walk the streets? Have your life and business interrupted? Did you not read or see ANYTHING that went on? Or are you yet another foreigner blind to what is going on around them (assuming you are even here)?

I find it almost universal now that any reply to me is prefixed by a litany of insults. This usually reveals that the poster hasn't read or taken in anything I have posted, not to mention a mind not used to civilised discussion.

Yes I was here at the time. Did I walk the streets, No. My life or business interupted, No. Which means that I am in a great position to point things out that someone blinded by emotion perhaps has not seen , but in reality refuses to see because of their bias.

I stand by my post and if you can get beyond insults and actually discuss where I am wrong please feel free to do so.

[JAG]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Do you have ANY PROOF at all or are you just spouting your usual crap?

In other words prove it yourself or just shut up.

If you CAN personally prove it then why have you waited until now to say so?

If you CANNOT then stop spouting lies and crap.

Do tell, do you define any view or expression of a view which does not agree with your interpretation of what happened as lies and crap?

Do you bellow at everyone who dares express a view which differs from yours until they "shut up"?

Must be fun being around you!

[Robby nz]

Oh his integrity...his honesty...his patience...OMG!! How gullible can people be? This man lies & deceives more than a whore drops her drawers. Why doesn't he tell us the one about being the democratically elected PM while Anupong had a gun stuck up everyone else's arse.

Your first sentence is obviously about Thaksin as it describes him perfectly.

If the second is supposed to be about Abhisit then you must try reading up on the correct history of him coming to power. not just the twisted red version.

[Pi Sek]

Oh his integrity...his honesty...his patience...OMG!! How gullible can people be? This man lies & deceives more than a whore drops her drawers. Why doesn't he tell us the one about being the democratically elected PM while Anupong had a gun stuck up everyone else's arse.

Your first sentence is obviously about Thaksin as it describes him perfectly.

If the second is supposed to be about Abhisit then you must try reading up on the correct history of him coming to power. not just the twisted red version.

Admittedly Abhisit has withheld the full truth on occasions, but that just makes him good at politics - as far as I am aware, he has not lied. I would like to hear from those purporting that he lies all the time as to what exactly he has lied about.

Thaksin, on the other hand, lies all the time. I could list examples, but do we really need them? They're well documented already.

[fab4]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Do you have ANY PROOF at all or are you just spouting your usual crap?

In other words prove it yourself or just shut up.

If you CAN personally prove it then why have you waited until now to say so?

If you CANNOT then stop spouting lies and crap.

Do tell, do you define any view or expression of a view which does not agree with your interpretation of what happened as lies and crap?

Do you bellow at everyone who dares express a view which differs from yours until they "shut up"?

Must be fun being around you!

Thank you Jag, as I was saying every reply I get these days is prefixed with insults. Maybe the truth is beginning to hurt.I missed that rant from bild.

Bild766 if you care to look here, my post #37 may have something you were shouting about

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/679039-those-accountable-for-2010-should-face-court/page-2#entry6996137

[boomerangutang]

Got to love his integrity. Abhisit and Suthep are both willing to stand trial and possibly face life in prison or even worse, the death penalty rather than adopt this stupid blanket amnesty bill all for the sake of clearing one man.

This is the sort of person Thailand needs. Not the cowardly and unethical scoundrel they have running it now.

It still leaves the question though that I have still not had answered.

The actual amnesty is only for 'politically motivated offenses' dating from Sept 2006 to Aug 2013

So Thaksin still has charges for breech of bail, absconding from court and the land deal, which to me, are not 'politically motivated offenses'.

At least 2 of these offenses should still be hanging over him. He was actually convicted in his absence. That makes him a convicted felon. Even if he is pardoned under the amnesty, he is still a convicted felon, and under the constitution, he can not stand as an MP which means, he can never be a prime minister.

You speak sensibly, but making sense has nothing to do with how PT policies are formulated, and sense has nothing to do with how things will transpire. PT is to logic and sense, what bats are to making ice cream.

PT is seeing cracks in its selfish money-grubbing armor, and is frantically aiming to accomplish the two things it cares about most: whitewashing Thaksin, and grabbing as much money for themselves as possible, before they're swept out the back door like the dustballs they are.

[rubl]

Thank you Jag, as I was saying every reply I get these days is prefixed with insults. Maybe the truth is beginning to hurt.I missed that rant from bild.

Bild766 if you care to look here, my post #37 may have something you were shouting about

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/679039-those-accountable-for-2010-should-face-court/page-2#entry6996137

My dear fabby, I'm disappointed and somewhat hurt. Some of my replies to you even start with "you're absolutely correct".

Now back to the topic with "blanket amnesty" good for all (who need it). That somehow seems to exclude the duo Abhsit/Suthep, but include UDD leaders, and most likely our Thaksin the Innocent, who seems to have known there would be violence as he was probably briefed by the renegade general Seh Daeng, grenades had dropped already and he said "the first shot fired I'll go back to Thailand to stand right behind you". Now pray tell, who do they want to charge with 'premeditated murder' and as private persons rather than officials?

Edited November 3, 2013 by rubl

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[fab4]

Admittedly Abhisit has withheld the full truth on occasions, but that just makes him good at politics - as far as I am aware, he has not lied. I would like to hear from those purporting that he lies all the time as to what exactly he has lied about.

Thaksin, on the other hand, lies all the time. I could list examples, but do we really need them? They're well documented already.

"Admittedly Abhisit has withheld the full truth on occasions, but that just makes him good at politics - as far as I am aware, he has not lied."

Let's try this just for a starter :

The 17-month- old Abhisit administration has set its sights on help from Interpol to have Thaksin, a holder of multiple passports and citizenship in Nicaragua and Montenegro, arrested and extradited to Bangkok.

“We will be providing documents to Interpol,” the premier confirmed during a Saturday afternoon press conference with foreign correspondents. “It is a two-step process: you need to issue an arrest warrant before extradition.”

This, however, is not the first time that the Abhisit administration has sought help from the Lyon-based international police organisation to nab Thaksin, the former telecom mogul who has been traversing the globe to escape a two-year jail term for corruption. But such efforts since April last year proved to no avail, because Interpol did not issue its well known Red Notice for the arrest of a wanted person for extradition based on a warrant or court ruling.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2010/05/thailand-govrsquot-tightens-noose-on-thaksin-with-terrorism-charge/

The Reality :

Interpol says no call received to arrest Thaksin

Cross-border police agency Interpol said Friday it had received no request to track fugitive Thai ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra and that it would not arrest him on purely "political" grounds.

Thailand said Thursday it would request Interpol's co-operation after it issued an arrest warrant on terrorism charges for Thaksin, whom it accuses of funding protests that led to deadly clashes in Bangkok in recent months.

http://www.zimbio.com/Abhisit+Vejjajiva/articles/yo7klAy2nB4/Interpol+says+no+call+received+arrest+Thaksin

How many more examples do you need , the army service that wasn't, the fact that he wasn't on holiday in the Maldives during the worst floods known and then he was on holiday but spent the time discussing flood control with the PM of the Maldives , the soldiers didn't kill anybody at the Wat, he wasn't a British Citizen and then he renounced his Citizenship and when caught out on that he admitted he had dual nationality. It goes on and on.

[joeydeacon]

I'd like to see the person who orchestrated the violence in 2009 and 2010 bought to justice, but given that he has paid for the current government it's unlikely.

[icare999]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Just in case you were not here at the time and in case you don't read anything other than the red lies/propaganda, let me point out a few things to you:

- The protests started at the beginning of March so has been ongoing already for nearly 4 weeks by April 10th, causing untold disruption, money lost, businesses affected, travel restricted, the list goes on.

- It was during this time (March to April) that the majority of the grenade attacks occurred, but of course the peaceloving, friendly, non-armed reds had absolutely nothing to do with this

- The SoE was implemented on 8th April, banning political assemblies of more than five people . . . the protestors were warned repeatedly what would happen if they remained, they chose to ignore the warning

- Yes, live ammunition was used from 10th April onwards, just as the protestors had been warned would happen, there were no lies, a warning was given out and ignored

- After 4 weeks of chaos up to April 10th, what would you call a last resort? What would have been a better resolution to the terrorism exhibited during that period of time by the reds in your tiny little mind?

The list goes on . . . you might want to research what actually happened . . .

your wasting your time trying to use fact and logic with someone like him or her. He sees no evil hears no evil as far as his hero is concerned He is the sort who would even if Bangkok had been totally destroyed and thousands killed by the red thugs would argue they were provoked and innocent. It would be very fitting if he lived here and found he and his family confronted by a ribid baying horde of red shirt thugs. People like that are the first to cower and beg forces or order do something. All I can assume is hes a paid misleader of Taksin and his lot since surely no one can be that stupid to utter such crap.

[Pi Sek]

Admittedly Abhisit has withheld the full truth on occasions, but that just makes him good at politics - as far as I am aware, he has not lied. I would like to hear from those purporting that he lies all the time as to what exactly he has lied about.

Thaksin, on the other hand, lies all the time. I could list examples, but do we really need them? They're well documented already.

"Admittedly Abhisit has withheld the full truth on occasions, but that just makes him good at politics - as far as I am aware, he has not lied."

Let's try this just for a starter :

The 17-month- old Abhisit administration has set its sights on help from Interpol to have Thaksin, a holder of multiple passports and citizenship in Nicaragua and Montenegro, arrested and extradited to Bangkok.

“We will be providing documents to Interpol,” the premier confirmed during a Saturday afternoon press conference with foreign correspondents. “It is a two-step process: you need to issue an arrest warrant before extradition.”

This, however, is not the first time that the Abhisit administration has sought help from the Lyon-based international police organisation to nab Thaksin, the former telecom mogul who has been traversing the globe to escape a two-year jail term for corruption. But such efforts since April last year proved to no avail, because Interpol did not issue its well known Red Notice for the arrest of a wanted person for extradition based on a warrant or court ruling.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2010/05/thailand-govrsquot-tightens-noose-on-thaksin-with-terrorism-charge/

The Reality :

Interpol says no call received to arrest Thaksin

Cross-border police agency Interpol said Friday it had received no request to track fugitive Thai ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra and that it would not arrest him on purely "political" grounds.

Thailand said Thursday it would request Interpol's co-operation after it issued an arrest warrant on terrorism charges for Thaksin, whom it accuses of funding protests that led to deadly clashes in Bangkok in recent months.

http://www.zimbio.com/Abhisit+Vejjajiva/articles/yo7klAy2nB4/Interpol+says+no+call+received+arrest+Thaksin

How many more examples do you need , the army service that wasn't, the fact that he wasn't on holiday in the Maldives during the worst floods known and then he was on holiday but spent the time discussing flood control with the PM of the Maldives , the soldiers didn't kill anybody at the Wat, he wasn't a British Citizen and then he renounced his Citizenship and when caught out on that he admitted he had dual nationality. It goes on and on.

1) The Interpol issue. As far as I'm aware, the Foreign Ministry at the time was planning to submit documents to Interpol. But they couldn't get the translation sorted out. This may be a lame excuse in your eyes - it was in mine - but Kasit's incompetence to do what Abhisit instructed doesn't make Abhisit a liar.

2) The army service that wasn't. Sorry, you'll have to elaborate, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

3) Abhisit's Maldives trip. Did Abhisit actually say he wasn't on holiday in the Maldives? I thought the Democrat spokesman was the one with his wires crossed, Abhisit never denied it?

4) Wat Pathumwanaram. The Democrats (in particular Suthep) and Anupong always said that soldiers were not stationed on the BTS tracks, although photographic evidence suggests otherwise - but Abhisit said from day one that an investigative panel, perhaps even with foreign advisors/observers, would be set up to find the truth. As it turns out, the court judgement stated that the bullets were fired from military weapons from a particular unit (although the army still denies any wrongdoing in this case). But when did Abhisit state outright that the Wat Pathumwanaram deaths were definitely not caused by soldiers?

5) Abhisit being a British or Thai citizen. He never took up British citizenship nor used it. He had dual nationality as a default, with no input or application from himself. He was asked whether he was Thai or British, and he said he was Thai... so where's the lie?

Unless I have my facts wrong (if I do, please let me know), I'm sorry but I can't see where Abhisit has told lied. It looks like I may need some other examples.

[Thaddeus]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Every so often a new red apologist comes on line spouting the junk they peddle to the red troops. It just comes out of thin air. You wonder where our old friends from the boiler room are these days.

Their problem is whether to support Thaksin's deal or be an unhappy red. Trying to reconcile what has been up to now unconditional support for Thaksin with the reds being played as disposable soldiers must be quite galling. Since, however, the reds are ultimately bought and paid for, their future lies four-squarely in being Thaksin's reserve army. For now though, just lump it lads.

I just like to let the facts outshine the hyperbole and lies. Surely you can't argue with that. Do you believe that the truth was that abhisit authorised the use of live ammunition as the last resort? Honestly, do you?

The facts are that suthep as director of CRES authorised the use of live ammunition on the 10th April. Thats it, nothing to argue about. But, for pointing that out, I'm a red apologist? I think the amnesty bill is a stupid idea but that is not the statement that I was correcting, was it?

And the protests by the ever so friendly and fluffy, wouldn't even hurt a mosquito types started when? on what date did they start to endanger the lives of others?

[MrSlatersParrot]

1) The Interpol issue. As far as I'm aware, the Foreign Ministry at the time was planning to submit documents to Interpol. But they couldn't get the translation sorted out. This may be a lame excuse in your eyes - it was in mine - but Kasit's incompetence to do what Abhisit instructed doesn't make Abhisit a liar.

2) The army service that wasn't. Sorry, you'll have to elaborate, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

3) Abhisit's Maldives trip. Did Abhisit actually say he wasn't on holiday in the Maldives? I thought the Democrat spokesman was the one with his wires crossed, Abhisit never denied it?

4) Wat Pathumwanaram. The Democrats (in particular Suthep) and Anupong always said that soldiers were not stationed on the BTS tracks, although photographic evidence suggests otherwise - but Abhisit said from day one that an investigative panel, perhaps even with foreign advisors/observers, would be set up to find the truth. As it turns out, the court judgement stated that the bullets were fired from military weapons from a particular unit (although the army still denies any wrongdoing in this case). But when did Abhisit state outright that the Wat Pathumwanaram deaths were definitely not caused by soldiers?

5) Abhisit being a British or Thai citizen. He never took up British citizenship nor used it. He had dual nationality as a default, with no input or application from himself. He was asked whether he was Thai or British, and he said he was Thai... so where's the lie?

Unless I have my facts wrong (if I do, please let me know), I'm sorry but I can't see where Abhisit has told lied. It looks like I may need some other examples.

1) The Interpol issue

We were repeatedly told that an arrest warrant had been issued and assured that it was only a matter of time before his arrest and repatriation. Absolute b**ls

4) Wat Pathumwanaram

Abhisit initially denied troops were on the BTS track and claimed that the forensic analysis at the site showed that the bullet trajectories had all been horizontal and so had been fired on teh ground and not necessarily by soldiers but could have been his men in black.

Later it was proven beyond all doubt they had been fired downward. Kao Sod newspaper took its journalists onto the track opposite the temple where shell casings and empty water bottles were found, photographed and published.

His appointee head for the thai human rights association ( a childhood friend) and whose report has been universally rubbished for its factual inaccuracies and blatant distortions she claimed that no-one was killed within the temple but that the bodies were taken into the temple from elsewhere!

They say what they like. After all what can happen to them. It's a bit rich the dems talking about justice now because they are above the law such as it is.

[MAJIC]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

He was too patient.

At least 10 weeks too patient.

[billd766]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Do you have ANY PROOF at all or are you just spouting your usual crap?

In other words prove it yourself or just shut up.

If you CAN personally prove it then why have you waited until now to say so?

If you CANNOT then stop spouting lies and crap.

Do tell, do you define any view or expression of a view which does not agree with your interpretation of what happened as lies and crap?

Do you bellow at everyone who dares express a view which differs from yours until they "shut up"?

Must be fun being around you!

Actually I don't bellow at everybody who "dares" have a different view.

Have you read what he wrote?

What I asked for was a simple answer. Does fab4 have any proof of what he is saying or not.

If he has proof then produce it, if he has no proof whay say what he said which leads into the realm of conjecture, guesswork, hope or lies.

If I offer an opinion on the forum without proof and anybody calls me on it and I cannot back up what I said then I will apologise and admit my mistake. If I can then I will stand by my statement.

I cannot remember any post of fab4s which does not have any semblance of the facts or truth in it. However I am not going to look back at every single post he has made to check. Mostly I ignore what he says but sometimes I cannot.

[billd766]

fab4 @post #47

Please accept my apologies for posting this way but when I tried there were too many qoutes already.

Your words

Thank you Jag, as I was saying every reply I get these days is prefixed with insults. Maybe the truth is beginning to hurt.I missed that rant from bild.

Bild766 if you care to look here, my post #37 may have something you were shouting about

http://www.thaivisa....-2#entry6996137

I did look at that thank you and you said that it was Suthep issuing the order but not Abhisit..

My problem with you is that you make a statement such as

quote "Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010."

Abhisit who alledgedly (according to you) said that and you say the opposite.

You offer no proof at all of what you say other than your word.

I, like you have the choice of who I believe.

You, who have offered NO proof other than your words and were not there or Abhisit, who certainly was there and is currently charged with offences which if proven may result in him going to jail for a long time, possibly the death penalty. You on the other hand are not involved in court cases and probably never will be.

On the balance I would believe Abhisit every time over you because you amke statements without backing them up whereas Abhisit doesn't seem to.

[fab4]

1) The Interpol issue. As far as I'm aware, the Foreign Ministry at the time was planning to submit documents to Interpol. But they couldn't get the translation sorted out. This may be a lame excuse in your eyes - it was in mine - but Kasit's incompetence to do what Abhisit instructed doesn't make Abhisit a liar.

2) The army service that wasn't. Sorry, you'll have to elaborate, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

3) Abhisit's Maldives trip. Did Abhisit actually say he wasn't on holiday in the Maldives? I thought the Democrat spokesman was the one with his wires crossed, Abhisit never denied it?

4) Wat Pathumwanaram. The Democrats (in particular Suthep) and Anupong always said that soldiers were not stationed on the BTS tracks, although photographic evidence suggests otherwise - but Abhisit said from day one that an investigative panel, perhaps even with foreign advisors/observers, would be set up to find the truth. As it turns out, the court judgement stated that the bullets were fired from military weapons from a particular unit (although the army still denies any wrongdoing in this case). But when did Abhisit state outright that the Wat Pathumwanaram deaths were definitely not caused by soldiers?

5) Abhisit being a British or Thai citizen. He never took up British citizenship nor used it. He had dual nationality as a default, with no input or application from himself. He was asked whether he was Thai or British, and he said he was Thai... so where's the lie?

Unless I have my facts wrong (if I do, please let me know), I'm sorry but I can't see where Abhisit has told lied. It looks like I may need some other examples.

1) Remember when Kasit was sent scurrying all over the place on abhisits orders to hunt Thaksin down and abhisit told the world this was going on.

You selectively don't of course.

The Truth About Interpol Warrant for Thaksin

"Now the truth that had been kept secret during the two and a half years when the Democrat-led government was in power has finally come to light when new Foreign Minister Surapong Towijakchaikul revealed that ousted former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was never on the wanted list of International Police, or Interpol, from the start." http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/491513-the-truth-about-interpol-warrant-for-thaksin/#entry4633522

But you're right of course, abhisit didn't lie to the Nation, it was the democrat government who lied, abhisit was only it's head.

2) Fake Document got Abhisit his military job, Defence Ministry says

BANGKOK: -- The Defence Ministry has found that a falsified military document was used when opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva applied to serve as a lecturer at the Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Fake-document-got-Abhisit-his-military-job-Defence-30186684.html

This came about as part of defamation charge that abhisit was filing on Jatuporn who amongst other things called abhisit a draft dodger. Funningly enough the Court found Jatuporn guilty of defamation on the others things he said but NOT the draft dodger comment.

"The suit also stated that on January 29, 2010, Jatuporn had alleged that Abhisit must be disqualified as prime minister because he used falsified documents to apply as a lecturer to the Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy. The suit said the accusation had misled the public into believing that Abhisit had no credibility or grace to continue as prime minister since he had evaded military conscription.

The court said that although Abhisit testified that he was a student under the supervision of the Civil Service Commission and received a Sor Dor 41, which is an exemption for military draft, he could not produce the document in court.

Although Abhisit argued that he once showed the Sor Dor 20, the list of people exempted from military draft, with his name as the third on the list, to Parliament, the Sor Dor 20 cannot be used as an official draft exemption. Only the Sor Dor 41, which is countersigned by the Interior Ministry, is the legitimate document.

Abhisit also could not back his claim with solid evidence that he never used fake documents in applying to the academy."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Jatuporn-handed-suspended-jail-term-for-defaming-A-30191262.html

But you're right, of course, abhisit didn't lie about falsifying documents to dodge the draft, he just didn't have the documents to prove it, available right now, even though he said he did.

3) Andrew Spooner used the Maldives incident in his talk on "Social Media vs Old Media"

“Fact-free ‘rumor’, driven by those who have ‘social capital’, drives out fact-checked ‘accuracy’. Group-think and conformity within ‘social’ media spaces replaces the practised distance and evaluation of “old” media,” he said, citing late 20th Century French philosopher Jean Baudrillard who once said “We live in a world where there is more and more information, and less and less meaning.”

He said the case study for his talk will draw on the reaction by English language Thai social media to my story on former Thai PM and present leader of the main Thai opposition Democrat Party Abhisit Vejjajiva’s luxury holiday to the Maldives that he took “slap-bang in the middle of the worst natural disaster to have hit Thailand in decades”.

“In short, en masse, the English language social media community driven by personal antipathy towards myself dismissed the story as complete and unfounded garbage.

...........two prominent Thai daily newspapers, Khao Sod and Matichon “fact-checked” his story and put questions to Abhisit and the Thai Democrat Party leadership.

“The result? Yes, Abhisit DID travel to the Maldives during the flood crisis.”

http://www.malaysiandigest.com/features/39862-malaysian-social-media-week-highlight-andrew-spooner-aka-asia-provocateur.html

Amongst this backtracking is when we get this

"The line now being put out by the Democrats, according to a report in the Matichon newspaper, is that Abhisit did actually travel to the Maldives but went there to visit the Maldives’ President in some kind of official capacity based on an invitation said president sent Mark several months ago.

Yet a quick look on the Maldives Presidents' website and at the list of official engagements and it is plain to see it makes no mention of Abhisit’s visit. It does mention an Under 25s Cricket Tournament and various messages the President has sent to diplomats etc. but nothing about Khun Mark’s important visit to the Maldives to discuss how to combat the floods."

http://archive.is/rAt1a

But you're right of course, abhisit didn't lie to the Nation, it was the democrat government who lied, abhisit was only it's head.

4. PM Abhisit said during the parliamentary censure debate that four of the six bodies found inside Pathum Wanaram Temple died from bullets shot from a shallow angle, not the Skytrain.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/06/03/national/Riot-victims-ask-Pheu-Thai-to-investigate-30130773.html

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva vowed to get the bottom of the matter in order to ensure justice. He also noted that the victims appeared to have been shot at from various angles at the ground level but not from a high position such as the elevated train tracks passing in front of the temple as suggested by the opposition MPs.

Police forensic reports on the six bodies said multiple gunshots from high-power weapons were the cause of death. There was no mention about the firing angle.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/06/03/politics/Soldiers-not-killing-6-at-temple-Anupong-30130789.html

I trust you're not going to lower yourself to defend that deliberate lie

5.) The subject of citizenship became a hot potato when Amsterdam was talking of taking abhisit to the ICC. As Thailand was not a signatory in theory this couldn't happen until it came about that abhisit had dual citizenship with the UK which was. Cue much shuffling of stories about there being laws against dual citizenship through laws he apparently made up on the spot

“You ask have I ever formally renounced my British citizenship, I admit I have not renounced my British citizenship because it is understood legally that if the nationality laws are conflicting, the Thai law must be used”. But if you ask me if this is regarded as a dual citizenship issue, that’s a legal matter. If you want me to renounce it, I can, but all of what you’ve done today about my British citizenship, it’s not that you’re concerned about Thailand’s interest. You only want one thing: how Robert Amsterdam can drag the issue to the international court. That’s it. It’s not my side that has a problem in protecting Thailand’s interest.”

http://asiancorrespondent.com/49047/thai-pm-admits-he-is-a-british-citizen/

There's about 3 linked stories to that you can read if you want some background to your version.

But of course you're right he didn't deliberately lie, he's just economical with the truth.