Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra's speech on the amnesty bill

[rubl]

Wasn't it you who complained people were focusing too much on a single person?

If you agree with him coming back but no access to politics it is already a very good start. At least you soften your stance and give a chance to reconciliation. Only thinking like this is opening the door to a solution. If such an idea is put on the table, constructive discussion can start. Without the usual negative rant that immediately jeopardizes any constructive thinking...
By not taking part in politics Thaksin would make an enormous compromise.
If you continue in that positive direction you should not refer to the money that was confiscated from him as stolen money. Because it is not a constructive way of addressing the issue. And it is not stolen money either.

My point is that it is useless to think that Thaksin can be left out of any plan.
Its just not possible.
Unfortunately some are just not ready yet to accept that obvious fact.
So, if the dems were ready to accept that too, and give a chance to reconciliation instead of being always against everything, it would be much more constructive.
Compromise cannot be reached if the parties do not sit together.
I don't think that I am wrong in saying that the dems, until now, never have been willing to sit at the reconciliation table.

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I don't think you're right

My point is that people should look beyond this annoying man who threatens the tranquility of Thailand and it's population. Had he indeed retreated from politics he would have been living in Thailand by now as respected senior adviser or the like. As it is now, a return may not be safe for him.

Compromise meaning a forced through amnesty for those who don't need it, rewarding corruption, and the like. Reconciliation table, with one arrm strapped to the back and the other shot off and a 'impartial' speaker switching offf microphone and so on and so forth?

Your point is that the people "should" look beyond Thaksin. However, the reality is that millions of Thais don't want to do what you recommend them to do. So, any solution should start by taking the reality into account. Not what one thinks people should do.
You are a good example of someone who is not ready to even consider a solution that does not completely fit your own personal ideas...

Edited November 6, 2013 by rubl

[gerry1011]

 

If your dear brother gave up politics, like he promised his wife, then all of this would not have happened. Who instigated the coup: your brother. Who financed the red shirts in 2010 and tried to overthrow the government: your brother. Who needs to walk away and stop meddling with Thailand's politics: your brother. Who keeps stirs it all up?

Very constructive...

Its not with people like you that a solution will ever be found, that's for sure.

A solution requires the people to start behaving like adults and come up with wiser comments.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

You still haven't offered a compromise yet from your side of the argument, you've just been avoiding it.  You're moaning about the dims and us not compromising, but nor are you - saying, that Thaksin HAS to be involved, that's not compromising, that's being childish and UNcompromising.

 

As I see this, there is NO compromise that will suit both sides and let's not forget there are many Red Shirts who are angry with Thaksin now and this bill.

 

Here's a question for you, if Thaksin was to remove himself from politics 100% truthfully and legally (I know this would never happen, but...) what would the Reds do then?  Would they fold?  Or would we see the country start to build bridges and work together and lose the focus on one man.

 

That is the solution.

 

It's him that is causing this divide, not the dems, not the people, him.  You seem to think he is more important than the country and its people, that's just wrong.

We were speaking about examples of compromise above.

Don't want to repeat the same.

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[whybother]

 

If your dear brother gave up politics, like he promised his wife, then all of this would not have happened. Who instigated the coup: your brother. Who financed the red shirts in 2010 and tried to overthrow the government: your brother. Who needs to walk away and stop meddling with Thailand's politics: your brother. Who keeps stirs it all up?

Very constructive...

Its not with people like you that a solution will ever be found, that's for sure.

A solution requires the people to start behaving like adults and come up with wiser comments.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

You still haven't offered a compromise yet from your side of the argument, you've just been avoiding it.  You're moaning about the dims and us not compromising, but nor are you - saying, that Thaksin HAS to be involved, that's not compromising, that's being childish and UNcompromising.

 

As I see this, there is NO compromise that will suit both sides and let's not forget there are many Red Shirts who are angry with Thaksin now and this bill.

 

Here's a question for you, if Thaksin was to remove himself from politics 100% truthfully and legally (I know this would never happen, but...) what would the Reds do then?  Would they fold?  Or would we see the country start to build bridges and work together and lose the focus on one man.

 

That is the solution.

 

It's him that is causing this divide, not the dems, not the people, him.  You seem to think he is more important than the country and its people, that's just wrong.

We were speaking about examples of compromise above.

Don't want to repeat the same.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Where? Letting Thaksin come back to where he left off is not a compromise. Nothing else has been offered / suggested.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[gerry1011]

 

If your dear brother gave up politics, like he promised his wife, then all of this would not have happened. Who instigated the coup: your brother. Who financed the red shirts in 2010 and tried to overthrow the government: your brother. Who needs to walk away and stop meddling with Thailand's politics: your brother. Who keeps stirs it all up?

Very constructive...

Its not with people like you that a solution will ever be found, that's for sure.

A solution requires the people to start behaving like adults and come up with wiser comments.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

What's wrong with just applying the law, to everyone ?

 

Why should law-breakers & fugitives be rewarded, for not plunging the country into dissension and civil-war, yet again ?

 

What's wrong with an amnesty for the low-level people, but excluding the leaders, as originally proposed ?

 

Apart from it not being, what Thaksin demands and instructs, from afar ?

 

 

Nothing is wrong in applying the law.

Then, at the same time, nobody should cry foul when Abhisit and Suthep are brought to court with murder charges. Its just fair game... If you want one side to have a hard time, how can you expect that side not to reciprocate?

But going on with years of court cases will not deliver any quick and much needed fix to the deadlock.

I am not in favor of seing Abhisit and Suthep be pardoned for the death of 90 people. However, I think that the amnesty is the best way out to stop fighting.

After years of fighting, street protests and mob rule, I am surprised that some people still did not come to their sense.

It is just anger that drives the present protests again. It has nothing to do with the future of the country.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[whybother]

 

If your dear brother gave up politics, like he promised his wife, then all of this would not have happened. Who instigated the coup: your brother. Who financed the red shirts in 2010 and tried to overthrow the government: your brother. Who needs to walk away and stop meddling with Thailand's politics: your brother. Who keeps stirs it all up?

Very constructive...

Its not with people like you that a solution will ever be found, that's for sure.

A solution requires the people to start behaving like adults and come up with wiser comments.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

What's wrong with just applying the law, to everyone ?

 

Why should law-breakers & fugitives be rewarded, for not plunging the country into dissension and civil-war, yet again ?

 

What's wrong with an amnesty for the low-level people, but excluding the leaders, as originally proposed ?

 

Apart from it not being, what Thaksin demands and instructs, from afar ?

 

 

Nothing is wrong in applying the law.

Then, at the same time, nobody should cry foul when Abhisit and Suthep are brought to court with murder charges. Its just fair game... If you want one side to have a hard time, how can you expect that side not to reciprocate?

But going on with years of court cases will not deliver any quick and much needed fix to the deadlock.

I am not in favor of seing Abhisit and Suthep be pardoned for the death of 90 people. However, I think that the amnesty is the best way out to stop fighting.

After years of fighting, street protests and mob rule, I am surprised that some people still did not come to their sense.

It is just anger that drives the present protests again. It has nothing to do with the future of the country.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It has everything to do with the future. The protesters don't want to see a repeat of the past

Why does Thaksin need to come back? Can't his supporters move forward without him?

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rubl]

So, let's apply the law. Who cares that it may takes years? Better than letting crooks and murderers and friendly politicians go without punishment. Speed up the legal process, limit all irrelevant requests for postponement, do it.

The amnesty seems the best way to ensure Thais are united in anti-government protests. Nicely done, Ms. Yingluck. Now what, did your caddy already tell you?

[gerry1011]

So, let's apply the law. Who cares that it may takes years? Better than letting crooks and murderers and friendly politicians go without punishment. Speed up the legal process, limit all irrelevant requests for postponement, do it.

 

The amnesty seems the best way to ensure Thais are united in anti-government protests. Nicely done, Ms. Yingluck. Now what, did your caddy already tell you?

Ok. In a way I agree with you.

My wish is to see Abhisit and Suthep rot in prison, so your "solution" can satisfy me too.

Even if I think that an amnesty is the "least bad solution" and a wise thing to do, I am also ok with putting everyone on trial.

It would be impossible to speed up the process of these trials, since everyone will use all possible delaying tactics (same as the Dems do in parliament), but it's ok.

The somber atmosphere that we know since years will continue for many more years, there will be many more protests for everything and anything, and from both sides, nothing will improve, you will still cry fool every time a yellow guy or a Dem is convicted of whatever, both sides will continue to make senseless accusations about one another, the judges will still be loved or hated depending on their rulings, the Dems will continue to spend their time at the constitution court following any decision made by the government, you will be able to continue to write "whatever" on this forum, the yellows and the Dems will still be enraged each time the PT is reelected, ...

All in all, the fight just goes on and on and on, with no end in sight.

Good plan.

Sent from my iPhone...

[Ricardo]

Nothing is wrong in applying the law.
Then, at the same time, nobody should cry foul when Abhisit and Suthep are brought to court with murder charges. Its just fair game... If you want one side to have a hard time, how can you expect that side not to reciprocate?
But going on with years of court cases will not deliver any quick and much needed fix to the deadlock.
I am not in favor of seing Abhisit and Suthep be pardoned for the death of 90 people. However, I think that the amnesty is the best way out to stop fighting.
After years of fighting, street protests and mob rule, I am surprised that some people still did not come to their sense.
It is just anger that drives the present protests again. It has nothing to do with the future of the country.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The suspicion is that Abhisit & Suthep are only being charged, in order to pressure them to go along with Thaksin's amnesty, that they actually want to clear themselves of the charges suggests to me that they think they have a good case. At least they haven't done a runner, either.

So it's not "fair game", it's blackmail of his opponents, by the Big Boss. Or 'fighting for justice', as the Red-Shirts used to claim. Pity that the amnesty is selling-out their dead & injured, eh ?

The way to avoid many years of court cases is to speed up the trials, for example Thaksin might (but won't) return, to enable all the other cases against him to proceed at last.

And if coming to their senses means accepting the S-clan dictatorship, I'm personally quite glad, that some people are still fighting against the amnesty.

[gerry1011]

Nothing is wrong in applying the law.

Then, at the same time, nobody should cry foul when Abhisit and Suthep are brought to court with murder charges. Its just fair game... If you want one side to have a hard time, how can you expect that side not to reciprocate?

But going on with years of court cases will not deliver any quick and much needed fix to the deadlock.

I am not in favor of seing Abhisit and Suthep be pardoned for the death of 90 people. However, I think that the amnesty is the best way out to stop fighting.

After years of fighting, street protests and mob rule, I am surprised that some people still did not come to their sense.

It is just anger that drives the present protests again. It has nothing to do with the future of the country.

 

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

The suspicion is that Abhisit & Suthep are only being charged, in order to pressure them to go along with Thaksin's amnesty, that they actually want to clear themselves of the charges suggests to me that they think they have a good case. At least they haven't done a runner, either.

 

So it's not "fair game", it's blackmail of his opponents, by the Big Boss. Or 'fighting for justice', as the Red-Shirts used to claim. Pity that the amnesty is selling-out their dead & injured, eh ?

 

The way to avoid many years of court cases is to speed up the trials, for example Thaksin might (but won't) return, to enable all the other cases against him to proceed at last.

 

And if coming to their senses means accepting the S-clan dictatorship, I'm personally quite glad, that some people are still fighting against the amnesty.

Thaksin convicted by his enemies.

Abhisit convicted by his enemies.

The game is fair

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[fab4]

The PTP aren't offering a compromise. All they have is to go back to the start. There is no point sitting at the table if that is all they have to "offer".

You keep going back to the anti-thaksin side not compromising, but have not offered any evidence of the Thaksin side wanting to compromise.

If Thaksin had stepped away from politics when he said he was going to in mid-2006, then there wouldn't have been a coup and there wouldn't need to be an amnesty.

The solution for the COUNTRY is for Thaksin to stay away. The problem is that Thaksin isn't looking for a solution for the country.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If Thaksin had stepped away in 2006? In effect he had. He was a caretaker PM (don't be pedantic over this, the important thing is, there was an election scheduled) keeping the seat warm as it were for the next general election which was due to be held on October 15th.

He had already said he would not contest the next Election but the Military held their coup anyway. There was a very high chance that Thaksins party would have won the election if it was allowed to happen and the military and their backers knew that. The coup had been in planning since february of that year so your theory of the coup and therefore amnesty not happening is extremely unlikely. There was no way a Thaksin party election win was going to be allowed to happen whether Thaksin was at the helm or not.

Facing yet another ban I'll be polite.

Please get your facts straight before attempting any further debate (and reading/buying into the "red" propaganda doesn't count).

Tell me where I'm wrong.

[dominique355]

More importantly, the bill is being portrayed as a whitewash of corruption, but this is beside the point.

That's exactly the point.

All this hogwash about reconciliation and forgiveness, all just smokescreen for her Big Brother to get back to Thailand and get his billions back.

In another post on TV, the ACC disclosed that with this amnesty bill over 25,000 cases of corruption would come to an end! 25,000!!!

And we are supposed to forgive and forget so they can continue and keep their ill gotten money? Never!

[Ricardo]

Nothing is wrong in applying the law.

Then, at the same time, nobody should cry foul when Abhisit and Suthep are brought to court with murder charges. Its just fair game... If you want one side to have a hard time, how can you expect that side not to reciprocate?

But going on with years of court cases will not deliver any quick and much needed fix to the deadlock.

I am not in favor of seing Abhisit and Suthep be pardoned for the death of 90 people. However, I think that the amnesty is the best way out to stop fighting.

After years of fighting, street protests and mob rule, I am surprised that some people still did not come to their sense.

It is just anger that drives the present protests again. It has nothing to do with the future of the country.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The suspicion is that Abhisit & Suthep are only being charged, in order to pressure them to go along with Thaksin's amnesty, that they actually want to clear themselves of the charges suggests to me that they think they have a good case. At least they haven't done a runner, either.

So it's not "fair game", it's blackmail of his opponents, by the Big Boss. Or 'fighting for justice', as the Red-Shirts used to claim. Pity that the amnesty is selling-out their dead & injured, eh ?

The way to avoid many years of court cases is to speed up the trials, for example Thaksin might (but won't) return, to enable all the other cases against him to proceed at last.

And if coming to their senses means accepting the S-clan dictatorship, I'm personally quite glad, that some people are still fighting against the amnesty.

Thaksin convicted by his enemies.

Abhisit convicted by his enemies.

The game is fair

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Except that Abhisit has not yet been convicted, as Thaksin was in 2008, in the first of several cases to be concluded.

[Thait Spot]

Nothing is wrong in applying the law.

Then, at the same time, nobody should cry foul when Abhisit and Suthep are brought to court with murder charges. Its just fair game... If you want one side to have a hard time, how can you expect that side not to reciprocate?

But going on with years of court cases will not deliver any quick and much needed fix to the deadlock.

I am not in favor of seing Abhisit and Suthep be pardoned for the death of 90 people. However, I think that the amnesty is the best way out to stop fighting.

After years of fighting, street protests and mob rule, I am surprised that some people still did not come to their sense.

It is just anger that drives the present protests again. It has nothing to do with the future of the country.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The suspicion is that Abhisit & Suthep are only being charged, in order to pressure them to go along with Thaksin's amnesty, that they actually want to clear themselves of the charges suggests to me that they think they have a good case. At least they haven't done a runner, either.

So it's not "fair game", it's blackmail of his opponents, by the Big Boss. Or 'fighting for justice', as the Red-Shirts used to claim. Pity that the amnesty is selling-out their dead & injured, eh ?

The way to avoid many years of court cases is to speed up the trials, for example Thaksin might (but won't) return, to enable all the other cases against him to proceed at last.

And if coming to their senses means accepting the S-clan dictatorship, I'm personally quite glad, that some people are still fighting against the amnesty.

Thaksin convicted by his enemies.

Abhisit convicted by his enemies.

The game is fair

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Except that Abhisit has not yet been convicted, as Thaksin was in 2008, in the first of several cases to be concluded.

and I would add to that that Abhisit has had the courage and moral high ground to stay in Thailand and not flee to other countries pulling monkey faces at democracy and shit-stirring the nation

[gemini81]

Nothing is wrong in applying the law.

Then, at the same time, nobody should cry foul when Abhisit and Suthep are brought to court with murder charges. Its just fair game... If you want one side to have a hard time, how can you expect that side not to reciprocate?

But going on with years of court cases will not deliver any quick and much needed fix to the deadlock.

I am not in favor of seing Abhisit and Suthep be pardoned for the death of 90 people. However, I think that the amnesty is the best way out to stop fighting.

After years of fighting, street protests and mob rule, I am surprised that some people still did not come to their sense.

It is just anger that drives the present protests again. It has nothing to do with the future of the country.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The suspicion is that Abhisit & Suthep are only being charged, in order to pressure them to go along with Thaksin's amnesty, that they actually want to clear themselves of the charges suggests to me that they think they have a good case. At least they haven't done a runner, either.

So it's not "fair game", it's blackmail of his opponents, by the Big Boss. Or 'fighting for justice', as the Red-Shirts used to claim. Pity that the amnesty is selling-out their dead & injured, eh ?

The way to avoid many years of court cases is to speed up the trials, for example Thaksin might (but won't) return, to enable all the other cases against him to proceed at last.

And if coming to their senses means accepting the S-clan dictatorship, I'm personally quite glad, that some people are still fighting against the amnesty.

Thaksin convicted by his enemies.

Abhisit convicted by his enemies.

The game is fair

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Except that Abhisit has not yet been convicted, as Thaksin was in 2008, in the first of several cases to be concluded.

He doesn't have 12 other charges that can be used against him, and doesn't lie constantly. The only thing they have on him, is uneducated fools thinking he himself authorized and approved for the army to shoot people. Can't even prove that. On the other hand, they dismissed tons of other things they could use against thaksin any day; not to mention all the violations by law of bribing red shirts, using black shirts, meddling with politics. His day is coming.

[gerry1011]

 

 

Nothing is wrong in applying the law.

Then, at the same time, nobody should cry foul when Abhisit and Suthep are brought to court with murder charges. Its just fair game... If you want one side to have a hard time, how can you expect that side not to reciprocate?

But going on with years of court cases will not deliver any quick and much needed fix to the deadlock.

I am not in favor of seing Abhisit and Suthep be pardoned for the death of 90 people. However, I think that the amnesty is the best way out to stop fighting.

After years of fighting, street protests and mob rule, I am surprised that some people still did not come to their sense.

It is just anger that drives the present protests again. It has nothing to do with the future of the country.

 

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

The suspicion is that Abhisit & Suthep are only being charged, in order to pressure them to go along with Thaksin's amnesty, that they actually want to clear themselves of the charges suggests to me that they think they have a good case. At least they haven't done a runner, either.

 

So it's not "fair game", it's blackmail of his opponents, by the Big Boss. Or 'fighting for justice', as the Red-Shirts used to claim. Pity that the amnesty is selling-out their dead & injured, eh ?

 

The way to avoid many years of court cases is to speed up the trials, for example Thaksin might (but won't) return, to enable all the other cases against him to proceed at last.

 

And if coming to their senses means accepting the S-clan dictatorship, I'm personally quite glad, that some people are still fighting against the amnesty.

 

Thaksin convicted by his enemies.

Abhisit convicted by his enemies.

The game is fair

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

Except that Abhisit has not yet been convicted, as Thaksin was in 2008, in the first of several cases to be concluded.

 

It's coming

Sent from my iPhone...

[rubl]

My dear gerry 0x07,

unlike you I think it very unlikely Abhisit/Suthep will rot in prison. Although charged it would seems unlikely the prosecution can make the charges stick and it might even be that the court will not accept the charges due to procedures not followed correctly.

As for the rest, the 'least best solution' as you call it, will be a disaster for Thailand. Corruption absolved because that's easier than prosecute it. All can start at it again, apart from keeping ill-gotten gains of course.

So, let's apply the law. Who cares that it may takes years? Better than letting crooks and murderers and friendly politicians go without punishment. Speed up the legal process, limit all irrelevant requests for postponement, do it.

The amnesty seems the best way to ensure Thais are united in anti-government protests. Nicely done, Ms. Yingluck. Now what, did your caddy already tell you?

Ok. In a way I agree with you.
My wish is to see Abhisit and Suthep rot in prison, so your "solution" can satisfy me too.
Even if I think that an amnesty is the "least bad solution" and a wise thing to do, I am also ok with putting everyone on trial.
It would be impossible to speed up the process of these trials, since everyone will use all possible delaying tactics (same as the Dems do in parliament), but it's ok.
The somber atmosphere that we know since years will continue for many more years, there will be many more protests for everything and anything, and from both sides, nothing will improve, you will still cry fool every time a yellow guy or a Dem is convicted of whatever, both sides will continue to make senseless accusations about one another, the judges will still be loved or hated depending on their rulings, the Dems will continue to spend their time at the constitution court following any decision made by the government, you will be able to continue to write "whatever" on this forum, the yellows and the Dems will still be enraged each time the PT is reelected, ...
All in all, the fight just goes on and on and on, with no end in sight.
Good plan.



Sent from my iPhone...

[Hawkman]

Nothing is wrong in applying the law.

Then, at the same time, nobody should cry foul when Abhisit and Suthep are brought to court with murder charges. Its just fair game... If you want one side to have a hard time, how can you expect that side not to reciprocate?

But going on with years of court cases will not deliver any quick and much needed fix to the deadlock.

I am not in favor of seing Abhisit and Suthep be pardoned for the death of 90 people. However, I think that the amnesty is the best way out to stop fighting.

After years of fighting, street protests and mob rule, I am surprised that some people still did not come to their sense.

It is just anger that drives the present protests again. It has nothing to do with the future of the country.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The suspicion is that Abhisit & Suthep are only being charged, in order to pressure them to go along with Thaksin's amnesty, that they actually want to clear themselves of the charges suggests to me that they think they have a good case. At least they haven't done a runner, either.

So it's not "fair game", it's blackmail of his opponents, by the Big Boss. Or 'fighting for justice', as the Red-Shirts used to claim. Pity that the amnesty is selling-out their dead & injured, eh ?

The way to avoid many years of court cases is to speed up the trials, for example Thaksin might (but won't) return, to enable all the other cases against him to proceed at last.

And if coming to their senses means accepting the S-clan dictatorship, I'm personally quite glad, that some people are still fighting against the amnesty.

Thaksin convicted by his enemies.

Abhisit convicted by his enemies.

The game is fair

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Except that Abhisit has not yet been convicted, as Thaksin was in 2008, in the first of several cases to be concluded.

It's coming

Sent from my iPhone...

I would welcome the dems facing trial in an International court away from any possible bribes. That's fair - also the same for Thaksin so he can face corruption charges and for the Drugs killings.

At least Abhisit hasn't fled like Thaksin has.

Ok how about this for a solution?

The Thai people themselves have a referendum on the amnesty. Then we'll see how much of a majority want Thaksin back.

Fair solution. Needs to be done quickly before votes could be bribed.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[gerry1011]

Nothing is wrong in applying the law.

Then, at the same time, nobody should cry foul when Abhisit and Suthep are brought to court with murder charges. Its just fair game... If you want one side to have a hard time, how can you expect that side not to reciprocate?

But going on with years of court cases will not deliver any quick and much needed fix to the deadlock.

I am not in favor of seing Abhisit and Suthep be pardoned for the death of 90 people. However, I think that the amnesty is the best way out to stop fighting.

After years of fighting, street protests and mob rule, I am surprised that some people still did not come to their sense.

It is just anger that drives the present protests again. It has nothing to do with the future of the country.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The suspicion is that Abhisit & Suthep are only being charged, in order to pressure them to go along with Thaksin's amnesty, that they actually want to clear themselves of the charges suggests to me that they think they have a good case. At least they haven't done a runner, either.

So it's not "fair game", it's blackmail of his opponents, by the Big Boss. Or 'fighting for justice', as the Red-Shirts used to claim. Pity that the amnesty is selling-out their dead & injured, eh ?

The way to avoid many years of court cases is to speed up the trials, for example Thaksin might (but won't) return, to enable all the other cases against him to proceed at last.

And if coming to their senses means accepting the S-clan dictatorship, I'm personally quite glad, that some people are still fighting against the amnesty.

Thaksin convicted by his enemies.

Abhisit convicted by his enemies.

The game is fair

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Except that Abhisit has not yet been convicted, as Thaksin was in 2008, in the first of several cases to be concluded.

It's coming

Sent from my iPhone...

I would welcome the dems facing trial in an International court away from any possible bribes. That's fair - also the same for Thaksin so he can face corruption charges and for the Drugs killings.

At least Abhisit hasn't fled like Thaksin has.

Ok how about this for a solution?

The Thai people themselves have a referendum on the amnesty. Then we'll see how much of a majority want Thaksin back.

Fair solution. Needs to be done quickly before votes could be bribed.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Thaksin was convicted by his enemies in a speedy trial. I think it's fair to let Suthep and Abhisit have a taste of it too

A referendum?

Why would you, and the side you support, want that?

A referendum would make you sweat a lot

There is a very high probability that the referendum does not turn in the favor of Thaksin enemies. No, you don't want that for sure.

All the anti-Thaksin would anyway only accept a result going their way. If not it will be the same rant again, blaming the PT, the "uneducated / poor / bought" voters, the corruption, the police, bla bla bla... All that has been already said thousands of times. And of course... it would be one more golden opportunity to go back to the streets for one more round of irrational protests, and why not seizing an airport or two.

Not going to bring reconciliation for sure

[whybother]

Thaksin was convicted by his enemies in a speedy trial. I think it's fair to let Suthep and Abhisit have a taste of it too

A referendum?

Why would you, and the side you support, want that?

A referendum would make you sweat a lot

There is a very high probability that the referendum does not turn in the favor of Thaksin enemies. No, you don't want that for sure.

All the anti-Thaksin would anyway only accept a result going their way. If not it will be the same rant again, blaming the PT, the "uneducated / poor / bought" voters, the corruption, the police, bla bla bla... All that has been already said thousands of times. And of course... it would be one more golden opportunity to go back to the streets for one more round of irrational protests, and why not seizing an airport or two.

Not going to bring reconciliation for sure

Actually, Thaksin was convicted when his brother in law was PM.

As far as a referendum on "amnesty for all" is concerned, there is no chance of it passing, with amnesty going to Abhisit, Suthep, AND Thaksin

[Thaddeus]

<a total mess of quotes snipped>

A referendum?

Why would you, and the side you support, want that?

Why do you and the side you support avoid it at all costs.

You would lose is why, I know it, you know it, Khun T knows it, Yingluck knows it, the entire PTP know it.... the Opposition know it and would seriously love it to get to that, but it never will, because even if Khun T maybe can't spell lose, he definitely can't admit it.

The sweat produced would cause a flood and there would be a small mushroom shaped cloud of anger from the direction of Dubai.

[Hawkman]

 

Thaksin was convicted by his enemies in a speedy trial. I think it's fair to let Suthep and Abhisit have a taste of it too

A referendum?
Why would you, and the side you support, want that?
A referendum would make you sweat a lot
There is a very high probability that the referendum does not turn in the favor of Thaksin enemies. No, you don't want that for sure.
All the anti-Thaksin would anyway only accept a result going their way. If not it will be the same rant again, blaming the PT, the "uneducated / poor / bought" voters, the corruption, the police, bla bla bla... All that has been already said thousands of times. And of course... it would be one more golden opportunity to go back to the streets for one more round of irrational protests, and why not seizing an airport or two.
Not going to bring reconciliation for sure

 

"All the anti-Thaksin would anyway only accept a result going their way."

555 and what about the Pro-Thaksin lot, will they gladly accept a result going the other way? If that was the case, they would have stopped trying to get Thaksin back years ago. They are the most bitter of the lot.

Have you not seen the polls? Majorities in the South and Bangkok are against the amnesty and so is Red Shirt heartland. Hence, why PT and Thaksin don't want a referendum.

Of course people are blaming corruption as the reason they don't want the Amnesty to go through. Over 25,000 cases Anti-Corruption want to clear will be wiped wiped from the Amnesty.

Do you support Corruption? You want corruption to win?

And you know as well as I do, that they have nothing on Abhisit And Suthep that won't stand in a proper court; hence why PT want the Amnesty to go through. Let them face a fair trial, I agree with you, then we will see.

And a Red Shirt supporter can't complain about Protests after what the Red Shirt mob did in 2011, ten times worse than what the yellows did, burning down businesses etc and 3 times as long.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Hawkman

[Ricardo]

Thaksin convicted by his enemies.

Abhisit convicted by his enemies.

The game is fair

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Except that Abhisit has not yet been convicted, as Thaksin was in 2008, in the first of several cases to be concluded.

It's coming

Sent from my iPhone...

Except that, with PTP's Amnesty-Bill, Abhisit won't get his day-in-court, to prove his innocence, so it isn't coming, after all.

I would actually be quite pleased, to see it shown in court, whether or not Abhisit & Suthep have a case to answer, as you believe.

But Thaksin puts his own absolution ahead of any such thing, and has the political-control to push it through, so it likely won't happen.

The game isn't fair, it's being rigged in his own favour, by a master-manipulator !