Buying Pirarted Dvds/cds Is Stealing

[Plus]

Movie studios might tap into pirate market and offer cheap franchises to pirate producers. That way they'll collect at least some money from each pirate copy sold.

Instead they charge a few big companies obscene sums of money for the right to produce exactly the same products as pirates. Actually worse because you don't get all the extras on legal DVDs - no games, nor music, no production notes.

I mentioned it elsewhere - when music on cassettes cost only 119 Baht for the latest release there were no pirates at all.

[thai3]

I mentioned it elsewhere - when music on cassettes cost only 119 Baht for the latest release there were no pirates at all.

You could not have looked very hard then, markets were full of fake cassettes a few years back when the genuine price was 70-90 baht. At least a thai has some excuse when buying fakes as the real item can be a days wages. The well paid ex pat (by thai standards) and tourists have no excuse, other than greed, for buying fakes. However people try to justify themselves buying fakes is theft and suports criminal gangs. Why not support the artists you want to hear by putting money in their pockets, rather than that of the criminals?

[Diablo Bob]

I mentioned it elsewhere - when music on cassettes cost only 119 Baht for the latest release there were no pirates at all.

You could not have looked very hard then, markets were full of fake cassettes a few years back when the genuine price was 70-90 baht. At least a thai has some excuse when buying fakes as the real item can be a days wages. The well paid ex pat (by thai standards) and tourists have no excuse, other than greed, for buying fakes. However people try to justify themselves buying fakes is theft and suports criminal gangs. Why not support the artists you want to hear by putting money in their pockets, rather than that of the criminals?

If you have been reading the thread, nobody is denying that it is theft, but as Donz so eloquently put it, we are just buying stolen goods, not performing the actual theft ourselves.

With this in mind, I can surely sleep soundly tonight.

In addition, I am more concerned with keeping money in my pocket, than putting an outrageous amount in somebody else's pocket.

[chuchok]

I mentioned it elsewhere - when music on cassettes cost only 119 Baht for the latest release there were no pirates at all.

You could not have looked very hard then, markets were full of fake cassettes a few years back when the genuine price was 70-90 baht. At least a thai has some excuse when buying fakes as the real item can be a days wages. The well paid ex pat (by thai standards) and tourists have no excuse, other than greed, for buying fakes. However people try to justify themselves buying fakes is theft and suports criminal gangs. Why not support the artists you want to hear by putting money in their pockets, rather than that of the criminals?

How do you know how wealthy people are? What a wally! I'd rather support a Thai selling DVD's in the market, than support the rip off merchants. sorry old chum, but I will now go out and buy 4 gross of DVDs.

if they were not cheap, many Thais and farang like me would not buy them at all.Don't you realise that??

What do you think I should get? Any good new titles out there? Common, give us a hint will ya?

[mrbojangles]

I've not had time to read the full thread but my 2 satangs worth.

I don't give 2 hoots if the film industry think i'm stealing. In the UK it's about £15 or about 1,000 baht (prices may vary) for a DVD. Until they reduce the prices, i'll just carry on, with no guilt whatsoever, no way Hose.

Off topic slightly. It's the same for cigarrettes. I'll keep on buying smuggled one's until the government realise, all they do by putting up the taxes is FORCING people to buy from abroad. Make them cheap enough to buy here and no one will need to buy rip off's.

[OldAsiaHand]

It seems to me that what this thread adds up to is a terribly sad commentary on the state of the world.

The majority here clearly falls into the screw-the-bastards-they've-got-more-money-than-me-so-I'll-take-whatever-I-can-off-'em camp. I gather what I thought were rather basic concepts of right and wrong are subject to adjustment these days, depending on one's determination as to whether whoever you are stealing from has enough money already.

[bkkmadness]

The majority here clearly falls into the screw-the-bastards-they've-got-more-money-than-me-so-I'll-take-whatever-I-can-off-'em camp. I gather what I thought were rather basic concepts of right and wrong are subject to adjustment these days, depending on one's determination as to whether whoever you are stealing from has enough money already.

That just about sums me up.

Never used a counterfeit item at all OAH? Not a DVD? Not a t-shirt? Fair enough if you haven't of course, each to his own.

[Plus]

They aren't losing anything. People buying fake DVDs are not going to buy them for 700 baht - they aren't even losing any substantial revenue.

I knew only a few places where you could buy fake cassettes - Khao Sarn, maybe Patpong, the choice was superb, but cassettes themselves were of very low quality. Then they switched to CDs and fake cassettes disappeared altogether.

All music shops inside the malls were selling genuine stuff, and they still do, I believe.

Movie industry doesn't suffer from free downloads yet, like record companies.

Yes, it's unethical to buy pirated movies, but it's not the same as shoplifting.

[backflip]

"What about smoking dope - everyone does it but it is illegal."

Perhaps in your household that's true.

I buy pirated movies and I know that the theft of intellectual property is wrong. However, referring to some of the movies I've purchased as "intellectual" would be a mistake. In the fine city of Shanghai, you can buy "DVD 9" versions of virtually any movie (including an array of Thai products) for 9RMB, somewhat less than $1.25US. While in the US, I purchased several hundred legitimate movies...the purchase of bootleg movies is my version of the Columbia House promo: buy one @ regular price and get one (nearly) free.

[britmaveric]

Hmmm seen some MIB buy pirated dvds - wonder if they knew it was illegal?

[Tippaporn]

One DVD I was looking for this morning is here.

In case you missed the price for the box set of 5 episodes, it's 70.99 GBP.

I'll be giving UKNova/Isohunt a few scans before entering my credit card details.

But Insight, this £70.99 is advertised as the . I can hardly imagine finding a better deal . . .

[wolf5370]

First off, someone 700 pages back said...

Are you from the UK, did you have a dog, did you buy a license?

...but the UK hasn't had dog licenses since the 70's, so I doubt anyone has a dog license any more (any dog that did would be dead by now!). Now TV licenses thats a different matter.

I don't buy pirated DVD/VCDs. The quality is just to much of a gamble for my liking. I prefer to go see a movie at the cinema or wait until its onn the box (or hire it/borrow from a friend).

Software though, I have bought.

I have bought (OK downloaded) XP Pro for example. Why? Because it was pre-installed on my Laptop and the HDD failed. A new HDD and no OS. The Laptop company has gone bust, so I can't pay their £80 restore fee (rip off for a start). M$ don't give a flying fig because they authorise the software for pre-installation. I can't even use the S/N from the bottom of the machine because its OEM and it doesn't work with full versions (and OEM is legally only allowed to be sold with Hardware). So my option is to pay £250 for a new copy of XCP Pro - however, it all now comes with SP2 which will not work on the Laptop. So all I can do is use pirated XP Pro, illegal by M$ rules, but as I paid for XP Pro with my laptop, and I'm only using 1 license, why is it so? Tell me that's not a rip off (and keep a straight face!).

I also bought some graphics software that would have cost about £16,000!!!

It cost me £4 (lots of disks). Would I have bought the original - not so bloody likely. I understand that the Dev costs etc have cost the producer and, fine, they can set their own pricing. For companies that use the software for commercial use, the cost may not be prohibitive, but for a private user that just wants to play around with it, there's no way I would stretch to that. So I bought the Disks - at worse I am of little consequence as I cost them nothing, at best - I'll be a self trained expert that goes to work for a company that might need such software and it may be a lead in for new business for the vendor - or if the company already has it, then a reason to keep the software as experienced/knowledgeable resources are easier to find.

[Tippaporn]

It seems to me that what this thread adds up to is a terribly sad commentary on the state of the world.

The majority here clearly falls into the screw-the-bastards-they've-got-more-money-than-me-so-I'll-take-whatever-I-can-off-'em camp. I gather what I thought were rather basic concepts of right and wrong are subject to adjustment these days, depending on one's determination as to whether whoever you are stealing from has enough money already.

I don't feel as though most people here begrudge the DVD/CD/software industry from making money, nor adopting the attitude that they-have-more-than-me-so-it's-O.K.-if-I-steal-from-them. I believe the issue here is the fact that most posters feel that they are being unjustly overcharged in the first place. In other words, the current pricing practices amount to little more than legalized stealing by the industry.

The idea which I find interesting is that while the public may be fleeced legally these same industries use the morals of right and wrong to try and convince others that if they play the same game then morally they would be on the wrong side of the fence. I'm not so easily duped.

[Tippaporn]

First off, someone 700 pages back said...

Are you from the UK, did you have a dog, did you buy a license?

...but the UK hasn't had dog licenses since the 70's, so I doubt anyone has a dog license any more (any dog that did would be dead by now!). Now TV licenses thats a different matter.

I don't buy pirated DVD/VCDs. The quality is just to much of a gamble for my liking. I prefer to go see a movie at the cinema or wait until its onn the box (or hire it/borrow from a friend).

Software though, I have bought.

I have bought (OK downloaded) XP Pro for example. Why? Because it was pre-installed on my Laptop and the HDD failed. A new HDD and no OS. The Laptop company has gone bust, so I can't pay their £80 restore fee (rip off for a start). M$ don't give a flying fig because they authorise the software for pre-installation. I can't even use the S/N from the bottom of the machine because its OEM and it doesn't work with full versions (and OEM is legally only allowed to be sold with Hardware). So my option is to pay £250 for a new copy of XCP Pro - however, it all now comes with SP2 which will not work on the Laptop. So all I can do is use pirated XP Pro, illegal by M$ rules, but as I paid for XP Pro with my laptop, and I'm only using 1 license, why is it so? Tell me that's not a rip off (and keep a straight face!).

I also bought some graphics software that would have cost about £16,000!!!

It cost me £4 (lots of disks). Would I have bought the original - not so bloody likely. I understand that the Dev costs etc have cost the producer and, fine, they can set their own pricing. For companies that use the software for commercial use, the cost may not be prohibitive, but for a private user that just wants to play around with it, there's no way I would stretch to that. So I bought the Disks - at worse I am of little consequence as I cost them nothing, at best - I'll be a self trained expert that goes to work for a company that might need such software and it may be a lead in for new business for the vendor - or if the company already has it, then a reason to keep the software as experienced/knowledgeable resources are easier to find.

Quite excellent points, wolf5370. For M$ to adopt a policy which forces you to repurchase their software due to HD failure is a joke. Same as the practices used by other software companies which basically force you to upgrade each year whether or not you truly need to. Astral bring up the excellent point of movie industry practices of regional coding. You can buy their DVD in one location but may not use the product in another.

Pricing is a tricky issue to simply apply black and white standards of right and wrong. Black markets result especially when the overall general public feels that cost of a product is too high. Not only is it a way to level the playing field but it's also the only alternative consumers have to voice their opinions about pricing which is nigh on impossible to change otherwise.

At what point does one consider pricing to be the result of greed?

[britmaveric]

Cost point is too high - if most software/music/dvds were a reasonable price I think you'd see there would be no blackmarket.

[Tippaporn]

Exactly, Brit.

[OldAsiaHand]

Exactly, Brit.

Sorry, but no.

Every seller of a product has the right to determine his own price point. He does so, presumably, in order to maximize his revenue. If the price point is too high, you don't buy the product and he doesn't sell the product. But don't justify buying a stolen product with this nonsense about 'price too high.'

We're not talking necessities of life here, kiddies. These disks don't have anything on them but movies, music, games, and other software. You don't need this stuff to sustain your life and you have no moral right to it. It belong to someone else who has the right to sell it however and at whatever price he likes.

You don't like the price, don't buy. If enough people agree with you, the vendor won't sell much product and will eventually reduce his prices or stop selling. It's called the free market and that's the way it works.

All your lame rationalizations are ridiculous and, yes, sad.

Edited May 4, 2006 by OldAsiaHand

[The Dude]

The Dude feels that the selection of pirated CDs is lame so that the illegality point is moot for him. The Dude grabs his favorite dvds from amazon, who have some pretty diggable prices he might add

[Tippaporn]

Exactly, Brit.

Sorry, but no.

Every seller of a product has the right to determine his own price point. He does so, presumably, in order to maximize his revenue. If the price point is too high, you don't buy the product and he doesn't sell the product. But don't justify buying a stolen product with this nonsense about 'price too high.'

We're not talking necessities of life here, kiddies. These disks don't have anything on them but movies, music, games, and other software. You don't need this stuff to sustain your life and you have no moral right to it. It belong to someone else who has the right to sell it however and at whatever price he likes.

You don't like the price, don't buy. If enough people agree with you, the vendor won't sell much product and will eventually reduce his prices or stop selling. It's called the free market and that's the way it works.

All your lame rationalizations are ridiculous and, yes, sad.

If only the issue were that simplistic.

[Sing_Sling]

The Dude feels that the selection of pirated CDs is lame so that the illegality point is moot for him. The Dude grabs his favorite dvds from amazon, who have some pretty diggable prices he might add

Good point by The Dude. Of course it is illegal to buy pirated shoes, dvds, t-shirts and the rest. The original manufacturers - be they film companies, sports conglomerates or fashion brands - spend a fortune on marketing, advertising, salaries and the rest. To say that they are all making billion is a fallacy. It's not really up to us to say who is making too much profit, lest we live in glass houses. Do you deserve your incomes compared to guys that work on construction sites or other labour intensive jobs?

Did I spend years and years at University to finally get my MBA just to be told that someone, who had been earning an income for the ten years I'd spent studying and earning almost nothing, doesn't believe I deserve my income?

So, dvd's in the UK are more expensive than in Thailand or Belgium? Of course they are, but look at the taxman for the majority of the difference and the differential in the standard of living - does a pair of British made leather shoes not also cost much more than the stuff you find at Chatuchat?

Having said all that I also bought pirated stuff when I first arrived here 10-odd years ago, but now I'd rather have quality and the real thing than save a few (or more) dollars.

[Donz]

I buy copied games from thailand, at $90 a pop in Oz its rediculas.

Most of the games are boring anyway.

I see nothing wrong with it, coz im not the one coping it. He wants to offer me a cheap game i will take it if its good.

[Khutan]

Ok, there have been some interesting comments here. I would like to share my own view.

I am a person who has delivered to the market for most of my life Copyright Software. The Lisence fees pay for the developers, the QA, Testing, Making what you have a product and the Marketing. Think of the fact in a software house, you even have to pay for the Tea Lady, and everyone else. So the Team of 40 programmers will have maybe another 50 or so staff working around them. To put Software on the shelf costs milions of dollars. The software industry is under so much pressure from low cost countries adding to this the shrinking lisence fees, really makes a problem.

Add to this that most of the games you like are done with venture capital or Risk Capital, so just think of that when you buy a pirate game.

Maybe when you buy Pirate software you may want to think whose pocket you want to put the money in, is it the people who developed the softwate you like made it rugged and sexy or some guy who has just purchased a PC with a set of 5 CD Burners, who will sell you anything, and if he can't find it, then his cousin can.

Movies and Music is a similar issue. It costs a great deal of $$$ to make a half decent movie, Music Video, sound track etc. The profits from a good number of movies go straight into the next. Same with Music and TV. Don't fool yourself, you are hurting yourself by buying Pirate gear.

Piracy is theft.

I know a number of teams I have managed over the years, if we had better "Shrink Wrap" sales our R&D efforts would have been better and the next poduct would also have been better, therefore the consumer benefits.

The last big sting in this is, when a product is priced for the shelf, there is an element added for IP Theft. So the people who are buying real copies of software are paying fot the theft.

[Donz]

If i didnt buy the pirated games i probaly wouldnt buy the originals anyway.

With movies i like i buy the original but some movie i dont know anything about but looks good then i just buy a copy.

I would never buy a original move unless I heard it was good, i rather rent it for get a copy

[britmaveric]

Khutan - faire enough, so have you purchased/downloaded pirated goods before?

[jdinasia]

Ok ... it's been said over and over ... BKKMadness actually said something sane .... it IS thieving ..... so what?

OldHandLuke just had to jump in on the other side because ... well .... he's unhappy here!

The OP? well ... no telling what his story is ... but his vacation if it happened ... just wasn't long enough

Edited May 4, 2006 by jdinasia

[Khutan]

Khutan - faire enough, so have you purchased/downloaded pirated goods before?

I have downloaded trial versions, and the stuff I have liked, I paid for the full copy. The rest I have deleted of forgotten

[Donz]

i would never buy any copies of software though, last time i did my computer got a nasty virus and i had to reformat it.

I dont think Pirating isnt that much of a problem

[chuchok]

Khutan - faire enough, so have you purchased/downloaded pirated goods before?

I have downloaded trial versions, and the stuff I have liked, I paid for the full copy. The rest I have deleted of forgotten

Ever watched a pirated DVD?

[Khutan]

Khutan - faire enough, so have you purchased/downloaded pirated goods before?

I have downloaded trial versions, and the stuff I have liked, I paid for the full copy. The rest I have deleted of forgotten

Ever watched a pirated DVD?

I have watched a few, and they were mostly VHS tapes from a rental Shop.

As far as DVD's, I have not knowingly purchased one, but when I go to a friends house, I don't ask to see if they are genuine.

Ok ?

[britmaveric]

If someone wants to pirate or not so be it, its a personal decision. However most pirate dvds I have bought are master/studio copies. So the major film companies employees are obviously selling them to our friendly pirates.

I also buy studio/recording company copies of dvds and music. The rare bad quality (camcorder in theater) dvd pirated movie, I end up buying if its of any value to me.

As for software, unless its less than 20quid chances are against it.

Edited May 4, 2006 by britmaveric