Keep Electrocuting Myself

[girlx]

i paid a guy 4 times to come set up my hot water system in my house. finally he got it working, but there is a problem. the water comes from the waterfall nearby. in order to get it to my house i have to use a pump. he installed an electrical outlet inside my bathroom and i plug in the pump there; it in turn activates the hot water unit and shower. but the floor drain doesn't work so well so there is always an inch or so of water on the floor. i am worried about plugging in/unplugging the pump in those circumstances. a couple of times already the plug was just hanging, the end of it just inside a bucket on the floor with a small bit of water in it and my bathing suit. i reached in to get the bathing suit and was shocked pretty badly. why does this happen when the plug is not in the socket? is there still some electrical current active in it? i have asked them to make this more safe but they don't seem to care, what can i do?

[LaoPo]

i paid a guy 4 times to come set up my hot water system in my house. finally he got it working, but there is a problem. the water comes from the waterfall nearby. in order to get it to my house i have to use a pump. he installed an electrical outlet inside my bathroom and i plug in the pump there; it in turn activates the hot water unit and shower. but the floor drain doesn't work so well so there is always an inch or so of water on the floor. i am worried about plugging in/unplugging the pump in those circumstances. a couple of times already the plug was just hanging, the end of it just inside a bucket on the floor with a small bit of water in it and my bathing suit. i reached in to get the bathing suit and was shocked pretty badly. why does this happen when the plug is not in the socket? is there still some electrical current active in it? i have asked them to make this more safe but they don't seem to care, what can i do?

A plug...hanging in the bathroom...? Better phone/get another electrician NOW!!!...or have yourself killed

LaoPo

[girlx]

...i know! doesn't thailand seem like the stupidest place on earth sometimes?!?!

[lampard10]

You should not really be able to write if you have been electrcuted. That means to kill with electricity. As for the electric shocks you have been getting. Now that is something different. A socket in the bathroom. Something different as well. Light switches are not even meant to be in bathrooms. Hence the hanging chord to switch lights on and off. You obviously do not realise that the mist that surrounds you when having a hot shower is water vapour. If it surrounds an open socket. Poof. It happens quite a lot in Thailand. DO NOT USE THE SHOWER UNTIL A PROFFESIONAL LOOKS INTO IT.

[Pink Mist]

thats the trouble with these electrical threads a lot of advice some good some not so good.

I am a registered electrical proffesional here in Oz and am aware of the conditions in LOS.

you can have electrical devices in bathrooms if they comply to ISO standards, the average person wouldnt be aware of these.

having said that your description of the fault is impossible to analyse on the internet.

YOU MUST GET A COMPETENT ELECTRICIAN TO GO OVER THE INSTALLATION

how you get one could be difficult but I suggest you ask around rellies friends shop owners someone will know a competent one.

IN THE MEAN TIME YOU CANT USE THE SHOWER OR YOU WILL BE ELECTROCUTED AND THAT ONLY HAPPENS ONCE

[thailand_property_search]

Get the electrician to move the sockett outside and buy the plug and socket yourself (weatherproof of course, they are quite common in hardware shops).

Most water pumps work on a demand basis so only use electricity when required so you should be able to leave it plugged in all the time.

Also, while he's at it, move the control for the shower to outside the bathroom (electricians here tend to be not too smart, but have no problems knocking holes in things). It is better to have them spearate and I doubt very much if he's thought about loading on the switch, but more about the convenience for him.

If he had seriously thought about it (unlikely) then he should have constructed a header or storage tank that the pump would fill from the waterfall. This is far more efficient since it will only run the pump when the header tank needs filling, not everytime you use water.

Edited May 2, 2006 by thailand_property_search

[Pink Mist]

good thoughts TPS and very sound advice, I would have a header tank, automatically controlled , heater installed correctly with RCD. but lets get back to basics she needs someone to sort this situation out for her.

[girlx]

oops sorry i forgot to mention i was coming back to life every time.

...no seriously i have been using this shower for about 8 months.

i guess i will go back to buckets- is there still vapor with them???

i can not get these people to move the outlet (it is a wall plug). so can i just get something to plug into it to keep me safe for now? can i put a plastic box around it?

thanks for all the (scary) advice!

[Pink Mist]

oops sorry i forgot to mention i was coming back to life every time.

...no seriously i have been using this shower for about 8 months.

i guess i will go back to buckets- is there still vapor with them???

i can not get these people to move the outlet (it is a wall plug). so can i just get something to plug into it to keep me safe for now? can i put a plastic box around it?

thanks for all the (scary) advice!

absolutely not stay with the bucket and find the electrician, where are you by the way?

[girlx]

i am in koh phangan.

[girlx]

p.s. does anyone know how to say "this is dangerous i need you to call an electrician to fix it" in thai? thanks!!!!

[Master Chief]

fun fun fun until you die is a good rule here in thailand, land of smiles, until you die of course, not so funny then.

Thai electricians smile all the time until they kill someone and have to leave to the county for the next one

[Pink Mist]

allright people does any one know a competent sparkie in that area

[thailand_property_search]

good thoughts TPS and very sound advice, I would have a header tank, automatically controlled , heater installed correctly with RCD. but lets get back to basics she needs someone to sort this situation out for her.

Koh Pangnan is a bit far for me to travel to do it

oops sorry i forgot to mention i was coming back to life every time.

...no seriously i have been using this shower for about 8 months.

i guess i will go back to buckets- is there still vapor with them???

i can not get these people to move the outlet (it is a wall plug). so can i just get something to plug into it to keep me safe for now? can i put a plastic box around it?

thanks for all the (scary) advice!

I don't see why he cant put it on the oustside (if the socket is on an outside wall it just means knocking it through and putting it on the other side). But it sounds like he just used an existing socket and run the plug to it. If they cannot move it..then they are not electricians....don't use them.

You could replace the current plug and socket with a weatherproof one, but I know that this would not be a temporary (for now) solution once you have done it and stronly advise you to fix the problem not the symptom.

Moving a socket isn't rocket science and I'm sure if you have a chat with your local farang someone will offer as most farang can do a modicum of DIY.

[girlx]

good idea, i'll ask andy.

[lopburi3]

My guess is that you are using a basic irrigation/tank filling type pump with no pressure controls and that you plug it in and water flows until you unplug it?

It needs to be outside the shower area if the area is a lake and should be a switch (normal light switch is too small) but you should be able to find a circuit breaker as used for air conditioners that can be used there on the island. I would also place a board or plastic/rubber mat below it for added protection. Turn on as you enter to take shower and off when you leave. If outside of shower is not rainproof you will have to make something to cover it.

The reason you got zapped by the plug is probably because the motor used for the pump has a starting capacitor with a stored charge to help it start. Like getting hit with a stun gun - hurts like h... but should not kill you (if you don't have heart failure).

And make sure that there is a ground wire running from your hot water heater (if electric) to a ground stake. That is the most important thing in the bath.

[Master Chief]

Who is Andy?

Is he a good electrician or a modicum?

[thailand_property_search]

I agree with most of what Lopburi3 says except the mat.

Inside the shower the mat is likely to get very wet (and they say there is often an inch of water). This will give no protection whatsoever. But it will mean you won't slip when you get a shock

[lopburi3]

I said the switch should be outside the shower and the mat placed below it. You really can't protect enough if standing in water so it has to be relocated.

[thailand_property_search]

Apologies.

I read the post as the pump was to be located outside since this was the topic of the previous paragraph.

[lopburi3]

Glad you pointed it out and don't want any confusion. I assumed the pump was outside so thought "it" would be the plug but see now that it was not clear. Get that plug out of the shower.

[thailand_property_search]

And they say that the Thai language is difficult

[girlx]

Who is Andy?

Andy is the village farang.

My guess is that you are using a basic irrigation/tank filling type pump with no pressure controls and that you plug it in and water flows until you unplug it?

yep that's it- i have a big holding tank in the bathroom.

this is behind the door inside my bathroom. see the pump plug, i put it into that outlet... water and bucket below.

closeup of the outlet... this is what is dangerous? i can just move the pump plug out into the kitchen to another outlet, but are you saying i need to have them move this outlet out of the bathroom too or i die?

there is by the way a breaker switch on the other side of the wall from the shower.

Edited May 2, 2006 by girlx

[lopburi3]

It would be best to remove the wires and outlet from that bathroom as they do present a danger there and are not needed. The breaker on the wall is probably attached to water heater if electric so you should obtain a second breaker to use as your water pump switch and place next to it or as close as you can to the other breaker. Run that to the outlet you removed and place near it where you will not touch and keep it plugged in and use the new breaker to turn the pump on and off.

You should really have a 3 wire electric system and RCB like a Safe-T-Cut but that may be beyond the ability of the local farang unless he has electric experience. If you can find an electrician the work is not that hard to do and parts do not cost much. Tell them you want three wire electric outlets and everything grounded. That pump should also have 3 wires or an added ground attached to it. If you have electric heater make sure that it has a ground. And put a Safe-T-Cut or another version of RCD before all the bath electric circuits if you can afford the couple of thousand baht a small unit will cost.

[lingling]

A GFCI for the shower heater, bathroom lighting etc is worth the B2500 or so. Any idiot with a screwdriver can install it. ...and don't forget to ground both the pump and the heater...

[thailand_property_search]

A GFCI for the shower heater, bathroom lighting etc is worth the B2500 or so. Any idiot with a screwdriver can install it. ...and don't forget to ground both the pump and the heater...

GFCI = Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter

[lopburi3]

A GFCI for the shower heater, bathroom lighting etc is worth the B2500 or so. Any idiot with a screwdriver can install it. ...and don't forget to ground both the pump and the heater...

I would not advise any "idiot" to work on electric without a basic knowledge of what they are doing and enough coordination to do it safely. It is all too easy for a screwdriver to slip and the holder to light up.

[Totster]

girlx...

There is a mod on this forum who lives on Koh Phangan called SBK

Maybe she would be able to recommend a competent electrician ?

totster

[elkangorito]

A GFCI for the shower heater, bathroom lighting etc is worth the B2500 or so. Any idiot with a screwdriver can install it. ...and don't forget to ground both the pump and the heater...

I would not advise any "idiot" to work on electric without a basic knowledge of what they are doing and enough coordination to do it safely. It is all too easy for a screwdriver to slip and the holder to light up.

Couldn't agree more Lop.

Obviously, if this is a sample of the electrical installation, what is the rest of it like?

Also, Earthing may help but if this is an island & if the electricity is produced by a generator, there may not be a 'star point' earth, which means that a Main Earth may not be super effective. Nonetheless, earthing under these circumstances will be better than nothing.

Also, further agreeing with you Lop, the installation of an Earth Leakage protection device is CRUCIAL in this type of faulty installation!!!!

[elkangorito]

For more info, see http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=67644&hl=

or

http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/