Thai govt drops amnesty bills

[JAG]

Now that the government has 'turned tail' and is on the run, the protests will not stop until this government steps down. Bangkok people do not like this government. If Parliament was located in Isaan, there would be less pressure on this government but the reality is they are surrounded by people who want them gone. After the video clip that Suthep showed the crowds of a PT MP telling a group of Red Shirts that what they were doing was a ploy to buy time, no one in the current protest will believe anything this government says. This is not over by a long shot; this has just begun.

And there perhaps lies the root of Thailands political problem. Every time there is an election the voters in Isaan and the North elect a Thaksin Government. Elements in Bangkok don't like it and so they move to frustrate or oust it.

Many on this forum bang on about the degradation or removal of checks and balances, and there is much in what they say, But, and it is a very big but, if those checks and balances are used by the opposition ( and I don't mean just the parliamentary opposition) to frustrate the settled wish of the electorate, as expressed through the ballot box, then that is as great an abuse of the democratic process as any. The fundamental of any democratic process is the expression of the peoples wish through their vote. Disregard this, or overturn it through any other process, judicial rulings, privy council decisions, street protests or military coup, and you are destroying democracy.

Contrary to many opinions expressed on this forum, the people of Isaan and the North are not stupid. They have repeatedly elected a Thaksin Government, and then they watch the losers of those elections, Democrats, Bangkok people, PAD, Yellow Shirts, the elite, (it doesn't really matter what label you put on them) , effectively prevent that government from functioning. Until "the opposition", parliamentary or otherwise, really accept the results of an election, and accept that the winners of the election have a mandate, then the political dysfunction will continue.

This post was written in the UK, after the consumption of a reasonable quantity of Cider!

Edited November 7, 2013 by JAG

[Beetlejuice]

Thank goodness for that.

The storm was petered out before it turned into a full scale hurricane.

I think Yingluck has done her reputation irreplicable damage and lost a lot of her credibility as Prime Minister.

Can you lose something you never had?

-Mel

Yes, I have to 100% agree with you on this one.

I was being too polite.

[Thait Spot]

Thank goodness for that.

 

The storm was petered out before it turned into a full scale hurricane.

 

I think Yingluck has done her reputation irreplicable damage and lost a lot of her credibility as Prime Minister.

 

Really, well she does not yet have the blood of her own people on her hands in order to remain in government, in fact it would appear the government is making attempt to avoid such a dismal scenario.

What a marvellous set of values.

Nobody died so she's doing a great job!

I don't think that works for me

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[chainarong]

These mob of spiffs could see the writing on the wall, pity though, would have been good to see them squirm, well done people of Thailand.

[LuckyLew]

This is good news indeed!

Perhaps now my wife will come home from protesting and cook a nice dinner for me.

or perhaps you can now stop posting on TV and clean the house

so the house us nice and clean for her when she returns ,,

[whybother]

Now that the government has 'turned tail' and is on the run, the protests will not stop until this government steps down. Bangkok people do not like this government. If Parliament was located in Isaan, there would be less pressure on this government but the reality is they are surrounded by people who want them gone. After the video clip that Suthep showed the crowds of a PT MP telling a group of Red Shirts that what they were doing was a ploy to buy time, no one in the current protest will believe anything this government says. This is not over by a long shot; this has just begun.

Once the final amnesty bill is fully withdrawn, the protests will die down. The hard cores will stay out, but most protestors don't want the government *forced* out, as much as they don't want them in power. They just want the amnesty bills killed.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[petedk]

Does this include the bill that is currently in the Senate?

Good question I don't think they can withdraw it now that they have passed it. But they will surely be putting pressure on the Senate to turn it down.

I think behind the false bravado they are really concerned about staying in power. They know they have been a government of buffoons but they thought nobody noticed. They got a rude awakening.

If all those bills have been withdrawn are they still going to send out people to explain the amnesty to the people who know a white wash when they see one.

I still don't trust this government.

Ok so they have withdrawn the bills but the amnesty bill still lies in the senate waiting for deliberation.

The meeting has been called forward to today supposedly to ease tensions but why bring it forward when a large number of those who are opposed to the bill be will be absent? Smells a bit fishy to me.

Maybe we'll see the bill passed by a narrow majority and then the government will put the blame on the senate.

[whybother]

What will forcing the government to step down / dissolve parliament achieve? There will be elections, and PTP will most likely form government again. I doubt they will win the majority of seats as they did in the last election, but I still expect them to be able to form a coalition government.

Being forced out will only give them more support. They need to be allowed to stay in power until the next scheduled elections or to step down by their own choosing. Yes, they are ruining the country, but forcing them out will do more damage.

[Stradavarius37]

What will forcing the government to step down / dissolve parliament achieve? There will be elections, and PTP will most likely form government again. I doubt they will win the majority of seats as they did in the last election, but I still expect them to be able to form a coalition government.

Being forced out will only give them more support. They need to be allowed to stay in power until the next scheduled elections or to step down by their own choosing. Yes, they are ruining the country, but forcing them out will do more damage.

"Ruining the country" is just rampant hyperbole (the hallmark of ThaiVisa posters). GDP continues its growth, tourism grows, investment grows - everything is growing, unabated.

[Ricardo]

The Amnesty Bill was a light the blue touch paper and withdraw situation, why they could not see that is amazing. Perhaps all they saw was a certain "hero" returning home adored by the masses and all the country's problems solved, only the world is not like that.

Some of the people have woken up and see a bigger picture and the "hero" does not have a part in unifying Thailand, he would just make the situation worse, very much worse.

The Bill should never have brought to Parliament, it shows poor judgment and makes you wonder who controls the government, well we know the answer to that one I think but where do they go from here it begins to look like they are losing the support of the country as well.

Disagree slightly that "The Bill should never have been brought to Parliament".

An amnesty for those foot-soldiers remaining in prison, a few years after the violent long-running 'peaceful protest', might indeed have helped towards reconciliation, as faux-PM-Yingluck hoped, while distancing herself noticeably from the bill itself.

The poor judgement was rather, that Thaksin thought he could then ramp-it-up after the first reading in the lower-house, then ram it through the 2nd & 3rd readings in 24-hours, with Opposition MPs being denied the right to propose further amendments or even to speak against it, on pain of being ejected forcibly from the House. This proved to be simply too undemocratic, even for here.

That he also expected the UDD to lie down, and accept the sacrifice of an amnesty for people they are told are murderers of their own people, in order to secure his own return, was also a rather big 'ask'.

Thaksin has made other serious errors-of-judgement in the past, and overplayed his (fairly strong) hand. This is just one more instance, the usual statements blaming his political-aides will no doubt follow, as there's no way he will ever admit that he makes mistakes himself, that might undermine the faith of the worshippers of his cult.

The fall-back options are, either to call an election to try to renew his mandate (the faux-PM denies that this will happen, but so what, she doesn't call the decision, and Big-Sister is waiting in-the-wings) or to try to hang onto power for the next 20 months, and continue with his disastrous-but-lucrative rice-scheme and push through the 2.2-trillion-baht infrastructure-scam as well. Loads-a-Money for all his gang supporters, which will strengthen his hand, at election-time in 2015.

[whybother]

What will forcing the government to step down / dissolve parliament achieve? There will be elections, and PTP will most likely form government again. I doubt they will win the majority of seats as they did in the last election, but I still expect them to be able to form a coalition government.

Being forced out will only give them more support. They need to be allowed to stay in power until the next scheduled elections or to step down by their own choosing. Yes, they are ruining the country, but forcing them out will do more damage.

"Ruining the country" is just rampant hyperbole (the hallmark of ThaiVisa posters). GDP continues its growth, tourism grows, investment grows - everything is growing, unabated.

We'll see about that when the full losses from the rice scheme are realised, and when the 350 billion baht and 2.2 trillion baht is wasted.

[Hawkman]

What will forcing the government to step down / dissolve parliament achieve? There will be elections, and PTP will most likely form government again. I doubt they will win the majority of seats as they did in the last election, but I still expect them to be able to form a coalition government.

Being forced out will only give them more support. They need to be allowed to stay in power until the next scheduled elections or to step down by their own choosing. Yes, they are ruining the country, but forcing them out will do more damage.

I may sound like a groupie constantly agreeing with your posts 555. But I'm completely on the same page here; a coup would inflame the situation and would only garner sympathy for PT.

Reputation is everything in public life and this bill has really tarnished the government. They have scored a dramatic own goal and probably lost a lot of their core support. They wont get the same support again and they have pushed people from the middle to become reluctant dems voters.

Saying the bill is all about forgiveness and saying its not about a whitewash has made the people of this country think they are being talked down to and are a bunch of bufallos who would swallow anything. Yingluck's statements are just making things worse.

This bill was obviously brought in thinking there would be some resistance but not on this scale. It has surprised them and got them rocked. They know they have a fight to win over the trust of the people now and cling onto power.

So the voter will remember this week and when the polls come around again we will see if this week's move was a disaster for them or not. The Government if removed should be done in a fair and democratic way. (Unless what others fear, that Thaksin does come back and change the voting system to make himself ruler for entirety! Or something)

Really proud of the Thai people this week. Seeing friends who are fans of PT turn in such a way and fight for what they believe is right gives me and the country hope.

Let's hope Thailand wins.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Ricardo]

"Ruining the country" is just rampant hyperbole (the hallmark of ThaiVisa posters). GDP continues its growth, tourism grows, investment grows - everything is growing, unabated.

"GDP continues its growth"

I thought we had just had two consecutive quarters of 'negative-growth', or a recession as many call it, so is it still true to say that GDP is still growing ?

I don't think so ... especially when the current government inherited a strongly-growing (circa 5% ?) situation just two years ago.

PTP/faux-PM-Yingluck's economic record is not as good as they would like to suggest, IMO.

[Jasun]

Great news.

[GeorgeO]

Not sure what really happened but in my opinion, it was either to do the 180 degree turn or face a coup.

Noting the way in which Mr T and the Army Chief had engaged in discussions over recent months, and the very clear signal that the General recently gave that he would have to direct his troops to step in if violence erupted, I think Mr T had to accept the inevitable, to withdraw that piece of sh1t bill or face the downfall of his government ... which, by the way, would still seem to be inevitable...!

[jdinasia]

"Ruining the country" is just rampant hyperbole (the hallmark of ThaiVisa posters). GDP continues its growth, tourism grows, investment grows - everything is growing, unabated.

"GDP continues its growth"

I thought we had just had two consecutive quarters of 'negative-growth', or a recession as many call it, so is it still true to say that GDP is still growing ?

I don't think so ... especially when the current government inherited a strongly-growing (circa 5% ?) situation just two years ago.

PTP/faux-PM-Yingluck's economic record is not as good as they would like to suggest, IMO.

That is about to be straight quarters after an amazing Y on Y end last year..

Good to see you are still posting ! I got worn down by the trolls and took a break You might want to check out Strad's recent topic starts and consider things

[HerbalEd]

The people have spoken. Even a lot of the red shirts opposed the amnesty bill.

[PeterSmiles]

But, but the amnesty bills are withdrawn said Yingluck on Thursday November 7.

Posted Today, 05:31

Senate meeting on amnesty bill moved up to Nov 8

BANGKOK, 8 November 2013 (NNT) - The Senate will meet this Friday instead of November 11 as previously scheduled to deliberate on the blanket amnesty bill. The Senate Speaker’s decision to move up the meeting has caused resentment among a group of appointed senators.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/680229-thailand-live-friday-8-nov-2013/?p=7013128

Edited November 8, 2013 by PeterSmiles

[ballpoint]

"Ruining the country" is just rampant hyperbole (the hallmark of ThaiVisa posters). GDP continues its growth, tourism grows, investment grows - everything is growing, unabated.

"GDP continues its growth"

I thought we had just had two consecutive quarters of 'negative-growth', or a recession as many call it, so is it still true to say that GDP is still growing ?

I don't think so ... especially when the current government inherited a strongly-growing (circa 5% ?) situation just two years ago.

PTP/faux-PM-Yingluck's economic record is not as good as they would like to suggest, IMO.

No, he means corruption is growing. Censorship is growing. Nepotism is growing. Discontent is growing... Unabated.

[rixalex]

Really proud of the Thai people this week. Seeing friends who are fans of PT turn in such a way and fight for what they believe is right gives me and the country hope.

I'm not so sure about those PT fans. Would they have turned and fought had the amnesty bill included Thaksin but excluded Abhisit and Suthep? I have my doubts. I think they are still happy to see the Shinawatras ride roughshod over laws, they just didn't want the other side being a part of it. I might be wrong. Hope i am.

[johnlandy]

WOW !!!! well well well. I wonder why ????

Because the square faced man (should be the two faced man when, you think about it) has so ordered it

[roger rederer]

Nice to see Thaksin face in combination with the amnesty bills. The reason that the people are not on Sanam Luang but on the public roads preventing school children from going to school and working people from going to work is of course that Suthep and Abhisit were also main beneficiaries of the amnesty and they need to get the government out because otherwise they will go to jail.

If there is so much resentment against amnesties why no cancelling all those amnesty bills that have been passed under the Democrat governments either, preventing democracy rapists in the army of facing the full force of the law.

Now now tragickingdom don't confuse these democracy deniers on here. As evidenced above; they're not sure whether to laugh or cry at this decision. I think P.M. Yingluck has shown political nous in light of the potential return to the thuggery that we suffered at the hands of the PAD terrorists who closed down Thailand (not just Bangkok) in 2008. With the high tourist season here and the coming of ASEAN this was the right decision at the time. However, the fact remains that Thailand is still subject to a constitution cobbled together by the generals and pliant judiciary in 2007 and to not amend this would be tantamount to the abandonment of democracy. More amendments will be proposed and some will be rejected but ultimately the current constitution must be redrawn.

[whybother]

Nice to see Thaksin face in combination with the amnesty bills. The reason that the people are not on Sanam Luang but on the public roads preventing school children from going to school and working people from going to work is of course that Suthep and Abhisit were also main beneficiaries of the amnesty and they need to get the government out because otherwise they will go to jail.

If there is so much resentment against amnesties why no cancelling all those amnesty bills that have been passed under the Democrat governments either, preventing democracy rapists in the army of facing the full force of the law.

Now now tragickingdom don't confuse these democracy deniers on here. As evidenced above; they're not sure whether to laugh or cry at this decision. I think P.M. Yingluck has shown political nous in light of the potential return to the thuggery that we suffered at the hands of the PAD terrorists who closed down Thailand (not just Bangkok) in 2008. With the high tourist season here and the coming of ASEAN this was the right decision at the time. However, the fact remains that Thailand is still subject to a constitution cobbled together by the generals and pliant judiciary in 2007 and to not amend this would be tantamount to the abandonment of democracy. More amendments will be proposed and some will be rejected but ultimately the current constitution must be redrawn.

Political nous?? If she had shown any political nous, she wouldn't have even accepted the changed bill.

The "cobbled together" 2007 constitution is nearly exactly the same as the 1997 "peoples constitution". One thing needs changing and that's the appointment of senators. The coup amnesty clause is irrelevant, and the dissolving of political parties for electoral fraud would be just fine if political parties didn't continue to commit electoral fraud.

[hellodolly]

Thailand has just demonstrated true democracy. Despite Thailand's shortcomings (of which there are many), the voice of the people has been heard and obeyed (for now).

I would not call giving in to demonstrations of opposition for a bill true democracy. In true democracy there would be a referendum voted by the people. While surely this bill for a blanket amnesty was motived for other than reasons of reconciliation, backing down because of demonstrations of a few is not democracy. While I am happy that they did back down in this instance, governing by who brings out the largest crowd and makes the most noise is not democracy. One must always be wary of those who can rally a crowd for their own political agenda. It does not always mean the majority are in favor of that agenda and if the government acquiesces to the mob then it is just the rule of bullying by the few. With that being said I too am glad the government has pulled back from this ill advised bill obviously done for selfish reasons. Whether Red, Yellow, or whatever, people should be punished for crimes. That is the rule of law.

A vote of 310 to 0 is not democracy when the 310 are ordered to by their superiors. In a Democracy they would be allowed to vote there own mind.

In a Democracy there might be some anti PTP vote for the bill. Also some PTP vote against it. What we have here is a dictatorship dressed up under a barrage of verbal diarrhea to look like democracy.

48% of the population telling 52% of the population is not democracy. Especaly when the 48% are told what to do by 1 man.

[Nickymaster]

Great news.

If it were true yes.

[robertson468]

Don't get the champagne out yet folks! I very much doubt that "The Man" has finished his drive to return to LOS and will watch with interest what his next ploy is to be

[rubl]

As I just wrote in a related topic, with one amnesty bill passed to the Senate, dropping all others is simply administrative cleanup, nothing this benevolent government should use as argument to show they're prepared to listen to the people

[backtonormal]

Not sure what really happened but in my opinion, it was either to do the 180 degree turn or face a coup.

Noting the way in which Mr T and the Army Chief had engaged in discussions over recent months, and the very clear signal that the General recently gave that he would have to direct his troops to step in if violence erupted, I think Mr T had to accept the inevitable, to withdraw that piece of sh1t bill or face the downfall of his government ... which, by the way, would still seem to be inevitable...!

There is no way the army can intervene in this process and be seen helping to remove this government.... and they know it. Removing another democratically elected government will have repercussions (ask Abhisit..no government did any business with him) and bloodshed on a scale we could not comprehend.

[rubl]

No government did any business with the Thai government from December 2008 to June 2011? Amazing!

The rest i'll ignore, mixed up facts to stress a non-existing point.

BTW indirectly the army is interfering. The 2007 coup leader and current Pheu Thai government coalition partner MP general Sonthi voted for the 'blanket amnesty' bill his Pheu Thai coalition partners had somehow modified

Not sure what really happened but in my opinion, it was either to do the 180 degree turn or face a coup.

Noting the way in which Mr T and the Army Chief had engaged in discussions over recent months, and the very clear signal that the General recently gave that he would have to direct his troops to step in if violence erupted, I think Mr T had to accept the inevitable, to withdraw that piece of sh1t bill or face the downfall of his government ... which, by the way, would still seem to be inevitable...!

There is no way the army can intervene in this process and be seen helping to remove this government.... and they know it. Removing another democratically elected government will have repercussions (ask Abhisit..no government did any business with him) and bloodshed on a scale we could not comprehend.

Edited November 8, 2013 by rubl

[bigbamboo]

Not sure what really happened but in my opinion, it was either to do the 180 degree turn or face a coup.

Noting the way in which Mr T and the Army Chief had engaged in discussions over recent months, and the very clear signal that the General recently gave that he would have to direct his troops to step in if violence erupted, I think Mr T had to accept the inevitable, to withdraw that piece of sh1t bill or face the downfall of his government ... which, by the way, would still seem to be inevitable...!

There is no way the army can intervene in this process and be seen helping to remove this government.... and they know it. Removing another democratically elected government will have repercussions (ask Abhisit..no government did any business with him) and bloodshed on a scale we could not comprehend.

No government did any business with Abhisit?

Korn was and still is regarded as Thailand's most respected Finance Minister for his performance during Abhisit's period as PM.

Edited November 8, 2013 by bigbamboo