'Red Sunday' Coordinator Urges Redshirts To Form Party

[Lite Beer]

'Red Sunday' Coordinator Urges Redshirts To Form Party

BANGKOK: -- The coordinator of the more progressive faction of the Redshirts has called on the movements to establish their own political party and be independent from what he called the exploitative nature of the Pheu Thai Party.

Mr. Sombat Boon-ngarmanong, who prefers to be referred to as ′horizontal leader′ (แกนนอน) rather than a vertical one (แกนนำ), was speaking as a panelist at the event hosted by Foreign Correspondent Club of Thailand (FCCT) in Bangkok.

He was slated to speak alongside two other prominent Redshirts leaders: Ms. Thida Tojirakarn, chairwoman of the National United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), and Mr. Jatupon Prompan, who had also served as an MP of Pheu Thai Party.

However, Ms. Thida and Mr. Jatupon cancelled their appearance in the last minute, citing security concerns, as thousands of anti-government protesters were converging just few metres away from the building where FCCT is housed to voice their anger against the government′s ′blanket amnesty′ bill.

The panel came at a time when the Redshrits are believed to be experiencing a deep rift with Pheu Thai Party following the party′s push for the ′blanket amnesty′ deal that would let those responsible for authorising the bloody crackdown on Redshirts protests in 2010 to be absolved of any legal accountability.

The panel was also co-chaired by Mr. Yukti Mukdawijitra, an academic who has studied extensively on the Redshirts movements.

Mr. Sombat told the audience via an interpreter that the division between Pheu Thai Party and its longtime ally the Redshirts is very "serious", and that is very interesting.

"In my estimates, 80% of Redshirts are angry at Pheu Thai," said Mr. Sombat, "Their anger suggests that Redshirts are finally feeling their own power. They feel they own these politicians,"

That anger can translate into real political consequence, according to Mr. Sombat, as it means Pheu Thai would lose substantial votes among its supporters in the next election. He cited his own experience. "I have a problem now. I am not sure who to vote for anymore. I′m sure many Redshirts are confused, too".

While some Redshirts are bound to defend the current government from the attempts by anti-government factions to overthrow it ("because they feel they built this government"), and while Pheu Thai might try to reconcile the Redshirts into its fold, the UDD and Pheu Thai cannot coexist anymore because the Redshirts now feel they had been betrayed by their allied party, Mr. Sombat said.

According to the activist, how Pheu Thai Party tramples on the rule of laws in its pursuit of ′amnesty for all′ also help prove the Yellowshirts right that politicians are evil.

If the ongoing political turmoil ever leads to dissolution of the Parliament, Mr. Sombat warned, Pheu Thai Party might not emerge from a new election as ruling party because it has alienated so many votes from the Redshirts and the swing voters, while even the 17 million Thais who had refused to vote in previous elections might simply decide to go to ballots this time just to punish Pheu Thai Party.

As the rift between the UDD and Pheu Thai Party is in full view, the Red Sunday activist urged the Redshirts to form their own political party to push their own agenda, independent of Pheu Thai politicians′ attempt to subvert the movements.

He also shared his analysis of the factors that had led to the current conflict between the Redshirts and Pheu Thai, noting that "those pushing for democracy uses election to achieve it, while those pushing for electoral victory uses democracy as the rhetoric to achieve it," hence dividing the movements into democratic activists and electoral politicians.

"We want to see politicians who are also believers of democracy. We like to say we are believers of democracy and that the other is not," Mr. Sombat said, "But it isn′t true. There are people who exploit democracy in both sides."

He continued, "Look at the anti-amnesty protesters. They have legitimacy to oppose the government. It is good when people examine their government. They feel like they have power in this nation. But what I feel bad about Yellowshirts is that they are obsessed with the issues of personality the institution when they talk about democracy. But that made them look backward".

Both Yellowshirts and Redshirts, in Mr. Sombat′s belief, can compliment each other in Thailand′s quest toward democracy, as the Yellowshirts focus on shaping the personality of who should be allowed to rule Thailand, while the Redshirts focus on building institutions that would keep check and balance on those politicians. "All sides should do their jobs", Mr. Sombat added.

Yet, the conflict between the two colours arises, and Mr. Sombat believes it is due to the each side′s attachment to personalities.

"Maybe we Thais don′t like to talk about principles," Mr. Sombat lamented.

Source: http://www.khaosod.co.th/en/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRNNE16a3lOVE0yTlE9PQ==&subcatid=

--KHAOSOD English 2013-11-08

[Slip]

while the Redshirts focus on building institutions that would keep check and balance on those politicians.

Make a refreshing change from burning them down I suppose.

[jdinasia]

Strangely, He (Sombat) did a decent job at the FCCT.

[Kerryd]

They could call it the "Amnesty for Thaksin and No One Else party" ! But they'd have to be really careful, as they wouldn't be protected by the same amnesty bill that they (seemingly) want to only apply to Thaksin.

And you wonder (not really) just how long it would be before they were all being accused of the same crimes and corruption as everyone in every other party seems to be ? Maybe that's the point of starting their own party. Worried that the Thaksin ATM machine is being shut off, and not wanting to go back to working for a living, what alternatives are there ?

I know, start a political party and line up at the taxpayer trough for your hand-outs !

[Roadman]

Strangely, He (Sombat) did a decent job at the FCCT.

He is a decent guy who cares about his fellow people and has the conviction as shown here where the rats like Thida and Jatupon ran. Aside from his Red Shirt activities he is involved in humanitarian areas. I hope he stays on his soap box and keeps peddling that scenario to the Red shirts. They do have a genuine bitch but they need to find people among them like Khun Sombat himself who are prepared to serve their people and not themselves and who understand if you want democracy then there is a fellow person who comes with it by the name of law. Hopefully enough of them have now learnt from the last 12 years that scum like Thaksin and the rest of his Shinawatra clan have utter contempt for the law and that election wins do not put you above the law or make you the law maker.

[Roadman]

Strangely, He (Sombat) did a decent job at the FCCT.

He is a decent guy who cares about his fellow people and has the conviction as shown here where the rats like Thida and Jatupon ran. Aside from his Red Shirt activities he is involved in humanitarian areas. I hope he stays on his soap box and keeps peddling that scenario to the Red shirts. They do have a genuine bitch but they need to find people among them like Khun Sombat himself who are prepared to serve their people and not themselves and who understand if you want democracy then there is a fellowship who comes with it by the name of law. Hopefully enough of them have now learnt from the last 12 years that scum like Thaksin and the rest of his Shinawatra clan have utter contempt for the law and that election wins do not put you above the law or make you the law maker.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Roadman

[rametindallas]

The Red Shirts need to be for the Red Shirts and not a paid subsidiary or Thaksin Inc.. The sooner they break from the paymaster the sooner they become a truly democratic organization worthy of respect. The Democrats should be reaching out with offers to help them organize and break away. Surely, there is common ground between them they can stand on together. Take away Dr. Thaksin's Red base and he becomes a non-issue and Thailand may then be able to move forward. I see Thailand being a regional leader if they can get past the Thaksin era. One can dream.

[chainarong]

Just another nail in the coffin for Thailand if this continues to an out come, perhaps the only way to attack this subject would be to grant their wish for horizontal leaders, all in the mortuary.

[Robby nz]

The Red Shirts need to be for the Red Shirts and not a paid subsidiary or Thaksin Inc.. The sooner they break from the paymaster the sooner they become a truly democratic organization worthy of respect. The Democrats should be reaching out with offers to help them organize and break away. Surely, there is common ground between them they can stand on together. Take away Dr. Thaksin's Red base and he becomes a non-issue and Thailand may then be able to move forward. I see Thailand being a regional leader if they can get past the Thaksin era. One can dream.

Yes Rametindallas his comments show that he thinks and not just takes orders from overseas.

It also shows that there is hope, but he does have the red stigma attached and going by the name of his group he does not want to leave that behind.

As you say the Dems should be encouraging dialog with people like him for there would appear to be common ground.

However I think that after the protests are over the Dems need to reaffirm just where they stand by doing something like coming out with a completely new manifesto and continueing the momentum these protests have started.

As the man said there are 17 million Thais who did not vote on the last general election, I wonder how many of then this amnesty bill would prompt to vote next time?

[Emptyset]

Strangely, He (Sombat) did a decent job at the FCCT.

He is a decent guy who cares about his fellow people and has the conviction as shown here where the rats like Thida and Jatupon ran. Aside from his Red Shirt activities he is involved in humanitarian areas. I hope he stays on his soap box and keeps peddling that scenario to the Red shirts. They do have a genuine bitch but they need to find people among them like Khun Sombat himself who are prepared to serve their people and not themselves and who understand if you want democracy then there is a fellow person who comes with it by the name of law. Hopefully enough of them have now learnt from the last 12 years that scum like Thaksin and the rest of his Shinawatra clan have utter contempt for the law and that election wins do not put you above the law or make you the law maker.

Just wanted to say I fully agree with your clearsighted appraisal of Sombat. I know you've expressed strong feelings regards the red shirts in past posts, but it's refreshing that people can, occasionally at least, suspend partisan sentiment and recognize someone of worth, even if they appear to be on the opposing side. Of course, as both you and Sombat seem to recognize, sometimes you're actually on the same side as someone you believe you oppose, but are simply unable to see this due to 'attachment to personalities' or similar illusions. I wish more people were able to see past personality politics and focus in on what they believe they're really fighting for.

As I've said before, if we could seperate the ideals that both yellow and red purport to represent from how they've behaved in practice, there are elements of both worth recognizing: commitment to democratic process and recognition of the worth of ordinary rural people (red) combined with respect for the rule of law and minority rights (yellow). If there were more people like Sombat, I'd like to think a coalition based around recognition of these ideals was possible. A movement that transcends the increasingly depressing quotidian colour coded sectarianism and cynical party political maneuvering; but at the moment he appears to be an almost singular figure. And the puppet show goes on...

Edited November 9, 2013 by Emptyset

[JRSoul]

".........the Redshirts focus on building institutions that would keep check and balance on those politicians. "

And those would be? Sombat's criticism of the yellows' focus on personality is a thin excuse for his own pragmatic acceptance of Thaksin's corruption and criminality in return for funding of his movement.

[Bluespunk]

"Their anger suggests that Redshirts are finally feeling their own power. They feel they own these politicians,"

The politics of street violence raises its ugly head again. The reds think their thuggery and bully boy harassment of any who disagree with them means they own the elected politicians and these MPs should do their bidding. Doesn't work that way boys, in a proper democratic system MPs do what is best for the country not just one faction of it. Now don't get me wrong PT does not do what is best for Thailand, they are narrow minded incompetents with personal wealth agendas. That said, the reds view of politicians role is a divisive, anti-democratic and factional one. We did your dirty work now you give is what we want. They have no respect for other views, an independent judiciary or the democratic process. Mind you the same is true of the yellows, PT and other rabid elements that form part of the political scene at present. The political landscape at present is not a promising one.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Bluespunk

[JRSoul]

"They feel they own these politicians,"

A classic example of failing to understand reality; that their MPs have sold themselves to Thaksin. Understandable though, it is the function of the Judas goat to be seen as part of the herd as they lead the sheep to slaughter.

[Sharp]

Sounds promising

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[winstonc]

"Their anger suggests that Redshirts are finally feeling their own power. They feel they own these politicians,"

The politics of street violence raises its ugly head again. The reds think their thuggery and bully boy harassment of any who disagree with them means they own the elected politicians and these MPs should do their bidding. Doesn't work that way boys, in a proper democratic system MPs do what is best for the country not just one faction of it. Now don't get me wrong PT does not do what is best for Thailand, they are narrow minded incompetents with personal wealth agendas. That said, the reds view of politicians role is a divisive, anti-democratic and factional one. We did your dirty work now you give is what we want. They have no respect for other views, an independent judiciary or the democratic process. Mind you the same is true of the yellows, PT and other rabid elements that form part of the political scene at present. The political landscape at present is not a promising one.

please forgive me for being a bit picky bluespunk..but the yellows as you are aware were a few groups under one umbrella..a few of them are very democratic ...it was always the abuse of power and discusting corruption that bought them together as one ...but saying that many over here have their own version of democracy it seems..much respect sir..regards winston-c

[chrisrazz]

Representative democracy is failing the world over as the those elected to represent the electorate rarely in fact do so. The case here is one in which Oligarchs openly abuse the democratic process for self enrichment and con the people to fight their battles for them. One solution is Direct Democracy (no this does not mean protesting on the streets), how or whether it can be workable is anyone's guess, but the idea of horizontal leadership (perhaps a contradiction in itself) is a start. I believe the Danes and Swiss have adopted Direct Democracy models of some sort. Iceland's constitution was redrafted with direct input from the people.

[Siripon]

I remember in 2010 when Sombat was criticized by fellow red shirt leaders for talking too much about democracy on stage and not about Thaksin.

His heart is in the right place and he has the education and intelligence. Unfortunately the second 2 factor separates him from 80% of the red shirts.

He has an uphill task.

[longway]

At least he has finally said out loud how much of this is a charade and nothing to do with democracy. Good luck to him.

[longway]

Representative democracy is failing the world over as the those elected to represent the electorate rarely in fact do so. The case here is one in which Oligarchs openly abuse the democratic process for self enrichment and con the people to fight their battles for them. One solution is Direct Democracy (no this does not mean protesting on the streets), how or whether it can be workable is anyone's guess, but the idea of horizontal leadership (perhaps a contradiction in itself) is a start. I believe the Danes and Swiss have adopted Direct Democracy models of some sort. Iceland's constitution was redrafted with direct input from the people.

I love this idea that is being formed in the uk, that in a true democracy we should not merely have the right to choose between politicians we should have the right to reject all of them outright and have new elections with new candidates.

That would really force politicians to engage with the disillusioned majority and stop their cynical games.

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/inclusion-of-an-official-none-of-the-above-option-for-all-uk-elections-2

Every country should adopt this option on all ballots IMO it's the missing link will prevent money and special interest groups from subverting the democratic system.

Edited November 9, 2013 by longway

[Valentine]

I remember in 2010 when Sombat was criticized by fellow red shirt leaders for talking too much about democracy on stage and not about Thaksin.

His heart is in the right place and he has the education and intelligence. Unfortunately the second 2 factor separates him from 80% of the red shirts.

He has an uphill task.

He does seem to be a voice of reason & certainly more consistent in his views than other red shirt leaders who flip flopped within a couple of days this past week. I hope his voice is heard a lot louder & taken heed of.

[Ricardo]

One can only wish Khun Sombat well, starting a proper independent Red-Shirt party would be an increase in democratic choice, whereas continuing to support a party that was always Thaksinist & is totally in-liege to him, means that his supporters will continue to see their interests sold-out.

Of course they wouldn't win a majority in an election, and would have to work with others in-coalition, but so what ? That's how things work here !

They might succeed in raising the interests of the poor to a higher level than before, that would be progress, and I suspect many farangs & TV-posters would welcome this, for what little that's worth !

[khunken]

One can only wish Khun Sombat well, starting a proper independent Red-Shirt party would be an increase in democratic choice, whereas continuing to support a party that was always Thaksinist & is totally in-liege to him, means that his supporters will continue to see their interests sold-out.

Of course they wouldn't win a majority in an election, and would have to work with others in-coalition, but so what ? That's how things work here !

They might succeed in raising the interests of the poor to a higher level than before, that would be progress, and I suspect many farangs & TV-posters would welcome this, for what little that's worth !

Totally agree. The country badly needs some new blood injected into the political process. Far too many dinasaurs & dynasties controlling the allocation of large sums of money that can be raked off.

I'd love to see a party with a real ideology take off and incorporate some of the better politicians from the major parties. Good luck Khun Sombat.

[boomerangutang]

I think it's a good impulse, and surprised it didn't come forth months ago. The Reds have thus far wielded power with T's money and brutish tactics. By becoming a political party, they'll have to be more responsible for their statements and actions. They'll be less likely to be shouting 'Burn Bangkok Down' into microphones from stages. Who knows, they may even come up with one or two ideas which could help downtrodden Thai folks, instead of just the Shinawatres. A guy can fantasize, can't he? Still off the political radar: hill tribers, the environment, alternative power, libraries, parks.

....and who understand if you want democracy then there is a fellow person who comes with it by the name of law.

Is that person; Jude Law? That would be interesting for the Thai political theater.

[h90]

I think it's a good impulse, and surprised it didn't come forth months ago. The Reds have thus far wielded power with T's money and brutish tactics. By becoming a political party, they'll have to be more responsible for their statements and actions. They'll be less likely to be shouting 'Burn Bangkok Down' into microphones from stages. Who knows, they may even come up with one or two ideas which could help downtrodden Thai folks, instead of just the Shinawatres. A guy can fantasize, can't he? Still off the political radar: hill tribers, the environment, alternative power, libraries, parks.

....and who understand if you want democracy then there is a fellow person who comes with it by the name of law.

Is that person; Jude Law? That would be interesting for the Thai political theater.

But they will be cut from all funds and immediately the man in Dubai will find some replacements for them. In the worst case form a new group, that hands out money.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Strangely, He (Sombat) did a decent job at the FCCT.

He is a decent guy who cares about his fellow people and has the conviction as shown here where the rats like Thida and Jatupon ran. Aside from his Red Shirt activities he is involved in humanitarian areas. I hope he stays on his soap box and keeps peddling that scenario to the Red shirts. They do have a genuine bitch but they need to find people among them like Khun Sombat himself who are prepared to serve their people and not themselves and who understand if you want democracy then there is a fellow person who comes with it by the name of law. Hopefully enough of them have now learnt from the last 12 years that scum like Thaksin and the rest of his Shinawatra clan have utter contempt for the law and that election wins do not put you above the law or make you the law maker.

If they did manage to form a party based on the principles outlined by him then I would have no trouble supporting them in their quest to govern with honesty and legitimacy.

Since moving to Thailand I have often wondered why, back in England, I was a staunch supporter of the labour party and since moving to Thailand I am an equally ardent follower of the Democrats (Thai's equivalent to the Tory scum party) .........and then Thaksinism springs into my mind and I realise why this is so!!