Tensions raise spectre of 'war' between protesters

[ginjag]

A few posts have been removed from view. This is Thailand, so please, nothing seriously derogatory towards senior politicians.

its about time moderators did not fear the speaking of the truth...regardless of this being Thailand. Naming and shaming politician crooks should be in. Let us take our chances.

We can always leave here you know.

Sent from my RM-892_apac_laos_thailand_219 using Tapatalk

It's not just us we are trying to protect. But thank you for your concern.

Name and shame is a huge deal here, and we either have to live with it, or leave. You are always free to stay or leave. Up to you.

marcusd, it may be easy for you to up sticks and move along to the next sandy beach, but many here, including myself, have families and responsibilities and are well accepted by our Thai neighbors.

We can enjoy the friendly banter on TVF but let the Thais get down to the nitty gritty mud slinging.

All we, as resident expats, can do is watch with interest as this chapter in the Thai story unfolds.

No Thai politician can sue you for laughing at him, but making accusations about them, as a farang would be a dangerous and inadvisable activity.

Thanks Craig, I will now bow out of all Political replies. From now on I will use for enjoy the interaction on safe topics only. Ginjag.

[hellodolly]

Thais live in a total vacuum of denial. No one ever speaks about the true situation and they code around it. Thais understand the code but occasionally one of the belligerents doesn't sign properly or their sign gets misread. This looks like a case where the Thai secret coding is getting scrambled and they will blunder in to another confrontation.

I don't think blunder is the correct word. I firmly believe that is the red shirt intention. Armed confrontation is all they know. When Bullying fails break out the guns.

Either PTP, collectivelly, didn´t know that unrest would erupt by the move, or they knew and pushed on anyway. So either they are morons or they put their own agendas above the well being of the country; in both cases that makes them unfit to govern and should step down.

On the other hand and for the long term good of the country it may be better for them to stay the full term, so that the disastrous results of their policies occur while they are at the helm and blame would be placed squarely on them. for example let the Rice Scheme collapse under their watch and see them having to stop the payments to the farmers and deal with a bank going under and whatever consequences for the financial sector.

It would be bad for Thailand, but it will help people see them for the inept crooks that they are and ruin (hopefully) their chances of being voted in again.

I hate to agree with you but what you say is true. They have had enough rope to hang them selves with and a little more will insure their death.

I can just see one of there phoney popular promises in the next election. We will go around and make sure that all the pads in schools that we delivered will work rather than just 5% of them. Also we will make sure that all students have one like we promised the last election but were to busy white washing are leader of his and are crimes. Also we will continue to attempt to white wash are leader's

not being in favour of coups... In this case I can see no,other way as both sides have no clue for a way forward for this country... Only a stampede to their stolen money from the Thai people.

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Well we may not be in favor of coups but some times we are faced with the decision of coup or destruction of the nation.

As a previous poster has said maybe the nation needs to see the depth of depravity the nation is being led into so in the future generations they will be better prepared to forestall such people. the size and variety of anti amnesty protestors for once is showing the government that the people care about Thailand not the private agenda of a few people.

[tominbkk]

Have any people turned up at Muang Thong yet?

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100,000?

I saw some reds getting their piccies taken at Ratchprasong earlier...what were they doing there?

[Thait Spot]

Have any people turned up at Muang Thong yet?

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100,000?

 

I saw some reds getting their piccies taken at Ratchprasong earlier...what were they doing there?

Are they for the amnesty bill this week or against?

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[hellodolly]

'REALLY hard times ahead for the average person in Isan'

Funny that. Do you think the lives of a people who've survived on subsistence farming for generations are really going to change for the worse anytime soon. Everything they have is through hard labour that is set against a background of poor education, poor healthcare, limited rights, (due to social non status, though, one rung up from us falangs) and exploitation. The only thing I see that'll make things harder is climate change, when you have nothing to eat, that's when it gets really hard.

I could go on about how the current political awakening that has occurred is more related to historical ignorance of the ruling classes, their ignorance of the need for development and inclusion, rather than self interest.

The vacuum was filled by the opportunist Taksin. As opponents to Taksin, they have thus far failed miserably to tackle the issues in the region.

If you look at it. They have had plenty of time and opportunity. A coup, because he was corrupt, yet the conviction they finally landed is chicken feed when you consider the sum of accusations. Why didn't they get him on something really big to finally put his influence out of the picture? All that did is garner more support. The events of 2010, well, that hardly swung the Isaan view that things were changing. Perhaps now, realisation that they are just pawns in someone else's game is beginning to sink in, but you can't blame them for wanting a better life and something in which to believe.

So many good posts here today I don't want to waste them.

Besides I think yours is a great post.

With the current unrest being backed by people from all different walks of life I see no way where future governments can continue to ignore the education system. Also the needs of the agriculture industry. there will always be poor people but it would be nice to see where it was just the ones to lazy to work rather than the hard working ones being kept poor by a corrupt system.

[Robby nz]

On a personal note : The lady has just walked out the door to meet with some friends who are organizing an anti amnesty, anti corruption rally this afternoon (no you don't need to know where)

It would seem they are getting a lot of support but at the same time there are a lot who are scared to come out and openly protest because of the red shirts who have shown in the past that they are not averse to violence.

People are also scared of the police for they have shown that they are openly pro government and are quite likely to let the reds do what ever they like and the fear is that if there is any trouble they would arrest the protesters rather than whoever was causing trouble.

No idea how many will be there or what will happen but I will be there with the camera, standing well back, and if there are any problems I will have plenty of photos to show just what went down.

[joeyswags]

Have any people turned up at Muang Thong yet?

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I had to go to Language Media Center Book Store on Muang Thong Thani this morning, and yes, quite a few red shirts. Most notable was the group of 10 motorcycles all carrying primitive looking red flags attached to 2x4's.

On the way back home along Klong Prapa saw more groups headed that way at the bus stops in front of Dhurakij Pundit University.

[bigbamboo]

I think Thai politicians are simply amazing.

[Sunisalom]

I think Thai politicians are simply amazing.

When you consider the sizes of their houses being inversely proportional to their salaries, they are more than amazing.

The are pure magic!

-mel.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Sunisalom

[tezzainoz]

"Chalerm Yoobamrung .... claimed that the protests against the amnesty bill were being financed by business groups that are enemies of the politicians in power."

Chalerm certainly has experience of this occurring. Not that it makes it true of the current situation.

Must add that the current protesters are much more accurately informed than the red shirts of 2010, and much less prone to violence.

My Thai wife and friends have been scammed

They are out there protesting and have not been paid for there time

In fact they did not even know they should have been

But if someone wants to give them money for what they happy to do free for the country, can Chalerm Yoobamrung please tell them where they can go to get there money

[Ulic]

I thought the amnesty was well thought out out. Red shirts get off, Yellow shirts get off, Army brass gets off. A nice sweetener

for all politicians on both sides who have been feeding at the trough, get off. The funny thing is each side wants there cake

and to eat it to. They want there side to get off as they are innocent and the other side fully prosecuted.

Quite interesting, I really thought the politicians would pass this in a heartbeat as they are off the hook on any corruption charges

but it seems the will of the people is being listened to. For now at least.

[mrtoad]

"Chalerm Yoobamrung .... claimed that the protests against the amnesty bill were being financed by business groups that are enemies of the politicians in power."

Chalerm certainly has experience of this occurring. Not that it makes it true of the current situation.

Must add that the current protesters are much more accurately informed than the red shirts of 2010, and much less prone to violence.

My Thai wife and friends have been scammed

They are out there protesting and have not been paid for there time

In fact they did not even know they should have been

But if someone wants to give them money for what they happy to do free for the country, can Chalerm Yoobamrung please tell them where they can go to get there money

Interesting, as I have a number of friends that are out protesting, and they are certainly not being paid and dont need to. Ms Toad who used to be a Thaksin fan, was not particularly polite about him and his puppet either. In fact a number of other peop,e who I know that would certainly normally be considered to be PTP core support are less than complimentary about the whole circus, and seem to have finally seen the sham for what it is. Come the election though, and when cold hard cash is banded about in Isan then it might be different.

[tezzainoz]

I thought the amnesty was well thought out out. Red shirts get off, Yellow shirts get off, Army brass gets off. A nice sweetener

for all politicians on both sides who have been feeding at the trough, get off. The funny thing is each side wants there cake

and to eat it to. They want there side to get off as they are innocent and the other side fully prosecuted.

Quite interesting, I really thought the politicians would pass this in a heartbeat as they are off the hook on any corruption charges

but it seems the will of the people is being listened to. For now at least.

But what if you did nothing wrong and you are prepared to stand up to your accusers

Why would you need to accept this bill

[Thai at Heart]

So protesting corruption is now officially, bad.

[MaxLee]

Have any people turned up at Muang Thong yet?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I had to go to Language Media Center Book Store on Muang Thong Thani this morning, and yes, quite a few red shirts. Most notable was the group of 10 motorcycles all carrying primitive looking red flags attached to 2x4's.

On the way back home along Klong Prapa saw more groups headed that way at the bus stops in front of Dhurakij Pundit University.

Durakij Pundit University??? That's my university and it's graduation ceremony as well for our Bachelor students, times perfect timing...

[Chrisswe]

And the main provoker , former CREST Director Suthep.T. already charged for responsibility of last publick crack down and killing 91 people's. So we really hope that 29 Milj Red Skirts can stop this Mainjack Suthep T.And safe Thailand from this disaster !!!!

[siampolee]

And the main provoker , former CREST Director Suthep.T. already charged for responsibility of last publick crack down and killing 91 people's. So we really hope that 29 Milj Red Skirts can stop this Mainjack Suthep T.And safe Thailand from this disaster !!!!

A wonderful comment from a well informed ''Rocky Mountain Canary.''

Edited November 10, 2013 by siampolee

[FangFerang]

He (Pheu Thai's Labour Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung) claimed that the protests against the amnesty bill were being financed by business groups that are enemies of the politicians in power.

Here's some financing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izNHIDiBTT8

I have always loved that classic vote buying clip by the red shirts !!! Makes the denial of vote

buying by PTP look pretty silly. On a side note, I was buying some auto parts from a large

parts business clearly owned by a wealthy Thai-Chinese family. A few of the older members were

intently watching televised footage of the protests. As I ordered the parts, he said he was not

sure if they would come on time from Bangkok due to fighting breaking out. I asked

him why he thought there would be fighting, as it just looked like protests to me. He smiled,

and said there would be fighting for sure. Either way it was an odd statement by him. Almost like

all this was planned, and those on the inside know what is coming.....

I am being told the same thing from three provinces....

[uptheos]

The governments of Canada, Brazil, Israel, Japan, the United Kingdom, France, Austria, Sweden and Taiwan have all issued warnings advising people to stay away from parts of Thailand while protests are expected to take place.

http://www.chiangmaicitynews.com/index.php

[Hobiecat]

You think the Philippines just took a beating.......................Hang on!

[FangFerang]

Everyone knows this showdown was coming, but we all hoped it would be ...some other time. If anyone needs help, message me. I am safely in the provinces. Don't expect cash, but I make a great breakfast.

[Sunderland]

They don't half talk some <deleted> those red shirts. Watching them on Asia Update TV. Some stupid nonsense about Suthep being jealous of Thaksin buying Manchester City. Hmmmmmm ... and that worked out well too!!

Heard one announcement that the reds are planning to stay at least 2-3 days there at Muangthong, which of course is the usual opposite of what they said yesterday. I'm not saying that the other side are any better or any more honest, but the red shirt leaders really do come across as buffoons of the highest order and their excuses for everything are those an 8 year old kid would up come with.

One side steps back soon, or this is going to get nasty later this week.

[FangFerang]

There are geniuses here in Thailand, people with very high IQs. This whole thing was timed and orchestrated, I think.

Stock up on rice and canned goods. 2010 is going to look like a picnic.

Everything depends on the backstory--will the shadow government and the Thaksin contingent reach an agreement?

I am not laying odds that will happen.....I really wish I was wrong, I truly and deeply wish that I did not feel this way.

I am afraid I am correct.

[hellodolly]

I thought the amnesty was well thought out out. Red shirts get off, Yellow shirts get off, Army brass gets off. A nice sweetener

for all politicians on both sides who have been feeding at the trough, get off. The funny thing is each side wants there cake

and to eat it to. They want there side to get off as they are innocent and the other side fully prosecuted.

Quite interesting, I really thought the politicians would pass this in a heartbeat as they are off the hook on any corruption charges

but it seems the will of the people is being listened to. For now at least.

Bull <deleted>

The Democrats are opposing it and Abhist and Suthep say they are willing to face the charges.

Does the nonsense from the PTPredshirt party owned by a man in another country ever stop. He continually finds stooges to lie for him.

I wish I had money to throw away like that.

[Benmart]

Thais live in a total vacuum of denial. No one ever speaks about the true situation and they code around it. Thais understand the code but occasionally one of the belligerents doesn't sign properly or their sign gets misread. This looks like a case where the Thai secret coding is getting scrambled and they will blunder in to another confrontation.

Hard to claim "all" Thais act/feel/believe in a certain way unless one has talked or observed all 66+ Million of them. On the other hand, if one were to say something like " The Thais that I have had personal contact with...", might lend a bit of credibility to the post.

[hellodolly]

Thai at heart

So protesting corruption is now officially, bad.

Not officially bad but more like un Thai like.

The PTP are so wrapped up in their money scamming schemes they never noticed that there were some Thais waking up to what is going on.

Unrelated when I hit my spell check for one scaming (scamming) one of the options was shaming. I was tempted there for a minute but just decided to post it this way and see if others agree.

chrisswe

And the main provoker , former CREST Director Suthep.T. already charged for responsibility of last publick crack down and killing 91 people's. So we really hope that 29 Milj Red Skirts can stop this Mainjack Suthep T.And safe Thailand from this disaster !!!!

Stop for a minute and explain to us why the man you claim is the main provoker is fighting so hard to have a bill that would take away all the charges against him. Why is he willing to face murder charges if the bill fails?

Can any one clear this up for me? Are the old guard of Thaksin lovers (possibly) on his payroll now changing avatars?

Just curious.

Edited November 10, 2013 by hellodolly

[JoeThePoster]

Just drove by Impact Arena. The place is teeming with Reds and more arriving by the bus load. Counted at least 30 big buses already there and several more tail backed on the highway.

[EyesWideOpen]

'REALLY hard times ahead for the average person in Isan'

Funny that. Do you think the lives of a people who've survived on subsistence farming for generations are really going to change for the worse anytime soon. Everything they have is through hard labour that is set against a background of poor education, poor healthcare, limited rights, (due to social non status, though, one rung up from us falangs) and exploitation. The only thing I see that'll make things harder is climate change, when you have nothing to eat, that's when it gets really hard.

I could go on about how the current political awakening that has occurred is more related to historical ignorance of the ruling classes, their ignorance of the need for development and inclusion, rather than self interest.

The vacuum was filled by the opportunist Taksin. As opponents to Taksin, they have thus far failed miserably to tackle the issues in the region.

If you look at it. They have had plenty of time and opportunity. A coup, because he was corrupt, yet the conviction they finally landed is chicken feed when you consider the sum of accusations. Why didn't they get him on something really big to finally put his influence out of the picture? All that did is garner more support. The events of 2010, well, that hardly swung the Isaan view that things were changing. Perhaps now, realisation that they are just pawns in someone else's game is beginning to sink in, but you can't blame them for wanting a better life and something in which to believe.

Guess you are referring to my post about upcoming hard times for Isan people. Yes you are correct, before foreign money came, it was subsistence living. With owning the land, sometime things were good, and sometimes bad. But now things have changed due to the personal debt bubble being created right now. So when the farmer's land is lost due to debt, that is when hard times start. Just ask anyone who lived through the Great Depression in America.

Thailand, being led by a pack of morons, focused intently on massive government spending to fill up the corruption trough, is headed down the debt bubble road, and yes it will end in a trail of tears.....

Here is some interesting reading from Forbes magazine on this subject. There are some frightening graphs in the article.....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2013/11/04/thailands-bubble-economy-is-heading-for-a-1997-style-crash/

[Local Drunk]

I got a bad feeling about this one Bob...

[Robby nz]

Just got back from the local protest against amnesty, corruption and PT in general.

Peaceful but certainly not quiet, by my estimation (rough count) there were about 400 there.

They did their thing for a while then all walked to the Governors house with a stop at the police station to explain to those who work there that they should do their job without favor.

No one home at the Governors house as he has a big house in BKK where he prefers to spend his weekends.

Then back to the starting point with a stop at a police post where they did the flag lowering bit with the appropriate singing.

All in all a distance of about 2km, sure some of them haven't walked that far in many a year if ever.

There was no free food but water was given out, everyone bought their own flags and whistles and no one was paid anything to attend.

There were no reds in sight to cause trouble, seems they have all been bussed off to BKK.

I haven't had time to go through the photos I took but if anyone doesn't believe me I will be happy to post some tomorrow.

As an aside ; the lady has been asked several times by people who did not attend how much everyone was getting paid to be there.

It seems there are some who find it hard to comprehend that anyone would do a thing like that for free.

I wonder where they get that notion from ?

Oh yes and the police did a good job directing traffic.