Abhisit, Suthep to be indicted Dec 12 as scheduled

[angsta]

Couldn't happen to a nicer pair

You mean nice as in the hands-off attitude displayed for the majority of time the fugitive criminal caddy backed red-shirted thugs tried to over-run the country. I think they should be answering to the people of Thailand what took them so long is resolving the problem. The red-shirt thugs should have been wacked much sooner and harder taking them completely out of the picture along with the scum-bags egging them on from the comfort of their lounge room / rat-hole.

Of course all the red-shirt lovers will side with you supporting your red-haze view of the world.

So you are saying from your bar stool that public citizens should be shot for protesting against a party that has not won an election in how many years? Which part or North Korea sorry I mean Southern America are you from exactly?

[jdinasia]

I must say that I am quite happy these two brave and incorruptible men fought against the amnesty, and that they are willing to stand trial. They should also make an ultimatum to have their trial started next Monday and get over it quickly

A few years in jail for these two can only be to the benefit of the country.

I get that you do not understand how things work here. Thailand is a complicated place and the legal system just makes it more complicated.

Maybe you missed the fact that the charges brought against them are as individuals and not as office holders which both were at the time of the events in the indictment.

They will be acquitted in the same way that Thaksin's wife was, due to the charges being brought in front of the wrong court.

Sadly, I expect the next government to be a non-elected unity government, otherwise I would be pulling for Abhisit to be PM again himself.

[Artisi]

This is marvellous, these two aren't in the slightest bit worried because they well know the charge simply cannot stick otherwise Yingluck's position will be equally imperilled. But every step of the way, rather than be humiliated, they will man up to it and every single time they appear in court everyone will ask 'And where is Thaksin the fugitive'.

And where is the fugitive, covering his ar_se o/seas petrified to return despite all the verbal rubbish he spews out constantly. The longer he stays away the better for Thailand and its people and as every day passes he becomes more of a joke and less of an influence, why even his beloved followers are starting to see through the BS and blatant lies he has been feeding people for years.

[tingtongteesood]

I wish they would put edited highlights of the trial on tv with English subtitles. Would be hugely entertaining to hear their evidence against the Red Shirts. I will look forward to reading the news reports about the Reds getting egg all over their collective stupid faces ! 55555

[Artisi]

Couldn't happen to a nicer pair

You mean nice as in the hands-off attitude displayed for the majority of time the fugitive criminal caddy backed red-shirted thugs tried to over-run the country. I think they should be answering to the people of Thailand what took them so long is resolving the problem. The red-shirt thugs should have been wacked much sooner and harder taking them completely out of the picture along with the scum-bags egging them on from the comfort of their lounge room / rat-hole.

Of course all the red-shirt lovers will side with you supporting your red-haze view of the world.

So you are saying from your bar stool that public citizens should be shot for protesting against a party that has not won an election in how many years? Which part or North Korea sorry I mean Southern America are you from exactly?

First up, I don't need a bar stool to make comment, and secondly I have never advocated that people shouldn't protest as vigorously as they wish. However what is blatantly clear is that you do not understand the difference between peaceful demonstration and demonstration by paid thugs directed to cause as much havoc and disruption as possible on the whim of others funded by a fugitive criminal who doesn't did a sh1t about anything other than his own self-interests. But guess you couldn't expect much more from a red sympathiser.

[whybother]

So you are saying from your bar stool that public citizens should be shot for protesting against a party that has not won an election in how many years? Which part or North Korea sorry I mean Southern America are you from exactly?

They weren't shot for protesting. They were shot for hanging around an armed militia.

[Emptyset]

Too bad Sae Daeng was whacked by (allegedly) Thaksin's orders. He's the one person who could have convincingly incriminated Thaksin. The Red/establishment tensions were essentially over when SD got whacked, so it should be no surprise who wanted him off the map. Just prior, T and SD were reported to be hassling with each other. If SD were around to testify in such a kangaroo trial (of Abhisit and Suthep), it would be most interesting.

I very much doubt he was 'whacked by Thaksin's orders'. In fact all the evidence I've seen and informed rumours I've heard say that it was the military. But if it was Thaksin, surely no one here could criticize him, after all, there's been a dramatic reduction in grenade attacks.

[thaicbr]

So you are saying from your bar stool that public citizens should be shot for protesting against a party that has not won an election in how many years? Which part or North Korea sorry I mean Southern America are you from exactly? 

 

 

They weren't shot for protesting.  They were shot for hanging around an armed militia.

After being warned as well.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

[h90]

so you have one so-called fugitive sentenced for 2 years for exercising his power for land purchase. Amazing!! What a crime!! Hundreds of other politicians (on the opposition side) may have been involved in similar type scenarios - only have not been caught. Then you have sons and daughters of the elite killing people on the roads here and there - and then escaping with suspended sentences or fleeing to Singapore. This double-standard is rampant in this society whoever be in power - reds or yellows or others. Suddenly, one side thinks it is 'ethical' to ban an amnesty bill. Totally agreed to that because everyone who is convicted must pay for their crime. However, does this solve anything? Does it solve the double-standards in society? Does it bring everyone to justice? What about the other guys who shut down the airports for 11 days? These so-called riots may appear to be of a legitimate purpose but they are nothing more than just a thirst for 'power'. And both sides are just playing a political game and we are all stuck in between.

No one seems to know that Khun Suthep took 12 plots of land in the south which had been put aside for poorer Thai farmers, and gave 9 of them to rich Thai families. Also the govermnent land that his son is said to have annexed and added to his private development on Koh Samui. At the same time Thaksin has been hounded by the army coup appointed court because he signed off on government land bought by his wife which incidentially, she bought through a fair and open tender process by offering more than the other 4 bidders.

Ok then where is your proof of these allegations against Suthep.. Court cases etc?

Ps. i agree Suthep is old school Thai politician, nasty.

agree!

and even if it would be true, what we find next, 1995 he drove his car 90 in the 80 speed limit?

The Shinawatra clan is taking half Thailand and give the rest to their cronies and there are hundreds of cases at court which can't proceed.

And we have some rumor about Suthep (these rumors aren't from the political enemy, or?) which 15 years no court could find something.

For me it sounds like the childish "but he did it also....." from the PTP caught in corruption.

[whybother]

Too bad Sae Daeng was whacked by (allegedly) Thaksin's orders. He's the one person who could have convincingly incriminated Thaksin. The Red/establishment tensions were essentially over when SD got whacked, so it should be no surprise who wanted him off the map. Just prior, T and SD were reported to be hassling with each other. If SD were around to testify in such a kangaroo trial (of Abhisit and Suthep), it would be most interesting.

I very much doubt he was 'whacked by Thaksin's orders'. In fact all the evidence I've seen and informed rumours I've heard say that it was the military. But if it was Thaksin, surely no one here could criticize him, after all, there's been a dramatic reduction in grenade attacks.

Didn't Chalerm say it was the police?

[Emptyset]

'Ordered the dispersal'? Wouldn't say that was the strongest of arguments.

Yet there was clear video footage of a men in black coming up behing a soldier on Rama 4 and shooting him from behind, and yet nothing was ever made of it.

Link please. There were so many videos cited on here of MIB or Red Shirts killing civilians/military I get confused which one this is you refer to?

you have been around long enough under a different name to know exactly which video's are being discussed. Let your fingers do the walking and you will find a lot more than one video But then you will have done that before.

If you have any problems with my membership please discuss your reasons with admin. If not , you know what to do.

If you haven't got a link to this specific video that shows "men in black coming up behing a soldier on Rama 4 and shooting him from behind" You're really not worth my time.

I doubt he has a link because there is no such video. The only incident in question that I can think of that remotely fits the bill is this one: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Soldier-killed-by-friendly-fire-court-concludes-30205117.html - it was on Vibhavadi though, not Rama 4. I recall some of the initial videos of this incident also featured a video of one of the MiB firing from a gas station, as if to indicate the soldier was shot by him. But they turned out to be unrelated incidents and I think the MiB video was clearly at night, whereas the soldier was shot in the daytime. Anyway, I can't remember it that well so my description might be slightly off, though there's no doubt according to the court and to Nick Nostitz who was there (see his comments here: ) that it was a friendly fire video, and in any case, the video certainly doesn't show men in black 'coming up behind a soldier and shooting him from behind'.

As I've said before, the best footage of the men in black operating after April 10th was filmed by the BBC on May 19 and featured in their 'Red Rage' documentary. But even they didn't get anything as outrageous as Katipo suggests. Previously I've been assured similar videos existed, in fact a Thai woman who joined the multicolours told me that she'd seen footage of the men in black throwing a grenade, killing several people and then dragging the bodies away, but I never got to see that video either. The courts would no doubt be interested if anything as sensational as that does turn up though.

[Emptyset]

Too bad Sae Daeng was whacked by (allegedly) Thaksin's orders. He's the one person who could have convincingly incriminated Thaksin. The Red/establishment tensions were essentially over when SD got whacked, so it should be no surprise who wanted him off the map. Just prior, T and SD were reported to be hassling with each other. If SD were around to testify in such a kangaroo trial (of Abhisit and Suthep), it would be most interesting.

I very much doubt he was 'whacked by Thaksin's orders'. In fact all the evidence I've seen and informed rumours I've heard say that it was the military. But if it was Thaksin, surely no one here could criticize him, after all, there's been a dramatic reduction in grenade attacks.

Didn't Chalerm say it was the police?

You're trusting Chalerm all of a sudden? lol. Not sure his word counts even as an 'informed rumour', more likely to be a deliberate red herring. I'm sure he has his reasons for saying that, though I also think there's no way he could've blamed the military without massive fallout. Anyway, I doubt we'll even know for sure, but as there's no solid evidence either way, I think it best to think the simplest explanation most likely. The army knew they'd have much more chance of a succesful operation with Seh Daeng out of the way, and it can't be any coincidence that operations were stepped up during the days that followed. Many also wanted revenge for what they perceived to be his involvement with the Romklao killing although I doubt that was the reason for the killing, just a further incentive, main reason was operational.

Also, why would Thaksin have him killed at that point if he were going to do so? Not only was he going to be a scourge to the military, but I actually think Seh Daeng was proving a useful decoy, distraction attention away from the generals who were really directing the men in black. Still, as I say, we'll never know for sure. He was such a loose cannon that you could see reasons for both sides to want to put him out of action.

[Mampara]

Couldn't happen to a nicer pair

Like a true gentleman and leader he would never dream of running away from his responsibilities.

[thaicbr]

Empty set.

I do remember a video of an Army truck that wandered into a red area by mistake. The soldiers were being very calm. Asking to just go on their way. They had guns but were not dressed in flack jackets etc. The Red shirts pulled them out of the truck. The soldier in the back started to panic. Shouting at the Reds just to let them go. Then about 8 or so Reds jumped in the back and threw the soldier out. He was standing in the crowd being shouted at when a Red picked up the rifle and shot him. All hell broke lose. People shouting.. but unfortunately I cannot find it on YouTube now... possibly because it's been taken off by the uploader. Who would have been one of the crowd.

You see most people don't want to implicate themselves.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

[jdinasia]

Empty set.

I do remember a video of an Army truck that wandered into a red area by mistake. The soldiers were being very calm. Asking to just go on their way. They had guns but were not dressed in flack jackets etc. The Red shirts pulled them out of the truck. The soldier in the back started to panic. Shouting at the Reds just to let them go. Then about 8 or so Reds jumped in the back and threw the soldier out. He was standing in the crowd being shouted at when a Red picked up the rifle and shot him. All hell broke lose. People shouting.. but unfortunately I cannot find it on YouTube now... possibly because it's been taken off by the uploader. Who would have been one of the crowd.

You see most people don't want to implicate themselves.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy

That is as I remember it. I'll let others dig for it though.

[Pi Sek]

This is an absolute joke, and Tarit is a fool for pursuing this along with the AG.

If they were serious we'd have Nattahwat, Weng, Thida, Arisman, Jatuporn, Thaksin, that knob from Udon (Kwanchai) all up on similar charges.

I think your comment is unreasonable. Thida didn't order or condone any violence as far as I'm aware.

[Pi Sek]

Empty set.

I do remember a video of an Army truck that wandered into a red area by mistake. The soldiers were being very calm. Asking to just go on their way. They had guns but were not dressed in flack jackets etc. The Red shirts pulled them out of the truck. The soldier in the back started to panic. Shouting at the Reds just to let them go. Then about 8 or so Reds jumped in the back and threw the soldier out. He was standing in the crowd being shouted at when a Red picked up the rifle and shot him. All hell broke lose. People shouting.. but unfortunately I cannot find it on YouTube now... possibly because it's been taken off by the uploader. Who would have been one of the crowd.

You see most people don't want to implicate themselves.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy

That is as I remember it. I'll let others dig for it though.

I also remember that footage, but I don't think they were combat soldiers and they weren't armed. They were in military uniforms.

The Red Shirt mob stopped the truck, the driver was forced out and was wai'ing for his life, then the cameraman went over to the passenger side door to film the person sitting there being yanked out, and then was a "bang". The cameraman went towards the back of the truck and one of the military personnel in the back had been shot (dead, I think). Some Reds in the mob were screaming in horror.

However, I don't think the shooter was caught on film so there's no proof that it was a Red Shirt, nor that the poor guy didn't commit suicide or something.

Are we talking about the same incident?

[Emptyset]

Empty set.

I do remember a video of an Army truck that wandered into a red area by mistake. The soldiers were being very calm. Asking to just go on their way. They had guns but were not dressed in flack jackets etc. The Red shirts pulled them out of the truck. The soldier in the back started to panic. Shouting at the Reds just to let them go. Then about 8 or so Reds jumped in the back and threw the soldier out. He was standing in the crowd being shouted at when a Red picked up the rifle and shot him. All hell broke lose. People shouting.. but unfortunately I cannot find it on YouTube now... possibly because it's been taken off by the uploader. Who would have been one of the crowd.

You see most people don't want to implicate themselves.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

Yes, I do remember that. It'd be interesting to see that again, the reason I didn't associate the original comment with that clip is because as far as I can remember it was unclear who'd actually done the shooting. I don't remember any 'men in black', they all looked like ordinary protesters to me and everyone seemed surprised when the gun went off. Anyway, unfortunately I can't find it on youtube either.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Emptyset

[Emptyset]

Empty set.

I do remember a video of an Army truck that wandered into a red area by mistake. The soldiers were being very calm. Asking to just go on their way. They had guns but were not dressed in flack jackets etc. The Red shirts pulled them out of the truck. The soldier in the back started to panic. Shouting at the Reds just to let them go. Then about 8 or so Reds jumped in the back and threw the soldier out. He was standing in the crowd being shouted at when a Red picked up the rifle and shot him. All hell broke lose. People shouting.. but unfortunately I cannot find it on YouTube now... possibly because it's been taken off by the uploader. Who would have been one of the crowd.

You see most people don't want to implicate themselves.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy

That is as I remember it. I'll let others dig for it though.

I also remember that footage, but I don't think they were combat soldiers and they weren't armed. They were in military uniforms.

The Red Shirt mob stopped the truck, the driver was forced out and was wai'ing for his life, then the cameraman went over to the passenger side door to film the person sitting there being yanked out, and then was a "bang". The cameraman went towards the back of the truck and one of the military personnel in the back had been shot (dead, I think). Some Reds in the mob were screaming in horror.

However, I don't think the shooter was caught on film so there's no proof that it was a Red Shirt, nor that the poor guy didn't commit suicide or something.

Are we talking about the same incident?

Sorry, hadn't seen your post before I wrote my own reply. Yep, pretty much as I remember it too.

[MrSlatersParrot]

Empty set.

I do remember a video of an Army truck that wandered into a red area by mistake. The soldiers were being very calm. Asking to just go on their way. They had guns but were not dressed in flack jackets etc. The Red shirts pulled them out of the truck. The soldier in the back started to panic. Shouting at the Reds just to let them go. Then about 8 or so Reds jumped in the back and threw the soldier out. He was standing in the crowd being shouted at when a Red picked up the rifle and shot him. All hell broke lose. People shouting.. but unfortunately I cannot find it on YouTube now... possibly because it's been taken off by the uploader. Who would have been one of the crowd.

You see most people don't want to implicate themselves.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

That's possibly because of course it never happened.

They were released just like the soldiers found in the APC on the night of April 20th 2010 by the red shirts. Some wanted to do them physical harm but the red shirt guards shielded the soldiers and released them.

FACT.

You shot all your credibility when you started quoting from Landdestroyer.

Looney world conquest protocols.

Have you heard of the Protocols of Zion? The world jewish conspiracy made up by the czar's secret police.

Many in the arab world and further afield still believe they were authentique

[fab4]

This is marvellous, these two aren't in the slightest bit worried because they well know the charge simply cannot stick otherwise Yingluck's position will be equally imperilled. But every step of the way, rather than be humiliated, they will man up to it and every single time they appear in court everyone will ask 'And where is Thaksin the fugitive'.

OK I'll fall for it - what is your logical linking between the indictment of abhit and suthep and Yinglucks "position" being "equally imperilled".

Looking forward to this one.

Edited November 13, 2013 by fab4

[Thaddeus]

This is marvellous, these two aren't in the slightest bit worried because they well know the charge simply cannot stick otherwise Yingluck's position will be equally imperilled. But every step of the way, rather than be humiliated, they will man up to it and every single time they appear in court everyone will ask 'And where is Thaksin the fugitive'.

OK I'll fall for it - what is your logical linking between the indictment of abhit and suthep and Yinglucks "position" being "equally imperilled".

Looking forward to this one.

This time you are absolutely right.

She hasn't done anything wrong, but only because she hasn't done anything at all.

[Emptyset]

I also remember that footage, but I don't think they were combat soldiers and they weren't armed. They were in military uniforms.

The Red Shirt mob stopped the truck, the driver was forced out and was wai'ing for his life, then the cameraman went over to the passenger side door to film the person sitting there being yanked out, and then was a "bang". The cameraman went towards the back of the truck and one of the military personnel in the back had been shot (dead, I think). Some Reds in the mob were screaming in horror.

However, I don't think the shooter was caught on film so there's no proof that it was a Red Shirt, nor that the poor guy didn't commit suicide or something.

Are we talking about the same incident?

I can't edit my other post now, unfortunately, but I wanted to add that I'm not sure that the soldier in question died. Certainly he wasn't dead by the time the clip ended, because it showed the red shirts bundling him into an ambulance IIRC. Also didn't seem to be very clear exactly where he'd been shot. There was a full list of deaths with description of the circumstances of their death - where known - published in June/July 2010, which I've just looked for but unfortunately can't find again now (would've been useful to save a copy). Anyway, I don't recall seeing that incident mentioned on the list of deaths. Although some did die after that period due to wounds, which is the reason the death toll figures have increased, so we can't rule that out. I know that after April 10th, three soldiers died. One in the grenade incident which Chandler Vandergrift was involved in, one in the friendly fire incident previously mentioned on this thread, so who was the other one? I don't know and it's certainly not impossible that it was this soldier - depends where he was shot I guess as it seemed likely to have been at point blank range. He did receive immediate medical attention though, so that would've improved his chances.

[Thaddeus]

I also remember that footage, but I don't think they were combat soldiers and they weren't armed. They were in military uniforms.

The Red Shirt mob stopped the truck, the driver was forced out and was wai'ing for his life, then the cameraman went over to the passenger side door to film the person sitting there being yanked out, and then was a "bang". The cameraman went towards the back of the truck and one of the military personnel in the back had been shot (dead, I think). Some Reds in the mob were screaming in horror.

However, I don't think the shooter was caught on film so there's no proof that it was a Red Shirt, nor that the poor guy didn't commit suicide or something.

Are we talking about the same incident?

I can't edit my other post now, unfortunately, but I wanted to add that I'm not sure that the soldier in question died.

One word.

Intent.

That is plainly shown.

[473geo]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

i think the topic is kinda about the events in 2010.. NO?

They've already been covered over and over and over again in previous topics over the past couple of years, but go ahead.

Oh they will..... ad nauseum...... trapped in their own tragic loop.......soon to forget all about the charges laid against Abhisit and Suthep

And if the charges don't stack up the topic is not really worthy of comment...I'll just wait and watch the game

Edited November 13, 2013 by 473geo

[whybother]

The video!

Edited November 14, 2013 by whybother

[whybother]

Empty set.

I do remember a video of an Army truck that wandered into a red area by mistake. The soldiers were being very calm. Asking to just go on their way. They had guns but were not dressed in flack jackets etc. The Red shirts pulled them out of the truck. The soldier in the back started to panic. Shouting at the Reds just to let them go. Then about 8 or so Reds jumped in the back and threw the soldier out. He was standing in the crowd being shouted at when a Red picked up the rifle and shot him. All hell broke lose. People shouting.. but unfortunately I cannot find it on YouTube now... possibly because it's been taken off by the uploader. Who would have been one of the crowd.

You see most people don't want to implicate themselves.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

That's possibly because of course it never happened.

They were released just like the soldiers found in the APC on the night of April 20th 2010 by the red shirts. Some wanted to do them physical harm but the red shirt guards shielded the soldiers and released them.

FACT.

You shot all your credibility when you started quoting from Landdestroyer.

Looney world conquest protocols.

Have you heard of the Protocols of Zion? The world jewish conspiracy made up by the czar's secret police.

Many in the arab world and further afield still believe they were authentique

It happened. Lucky you don't have any credibility to lose.

[Ricardo]

You're trusting Chalerm all of a sudden? lol. Not sure his word counts even as an 'informed rumour', more likely to be a deliberate red herring. I'm sure he has his reasons for saying that, though I also think there's no way he could've blamed the military without massive fallout. Anyway, I doubt we'll even know for sure, but as there's no solid evidence either way, I think it best to think the simplest explanation most likely. The army knew they'd have much more chance of a succesful operation with Seh Daeng out of the way, and it can't be any coincidence that operations were stepped up during the days that followed. Many also wanted revenge for what they perceived to be his involvement with the Romklao killing although I doubt that was the reason for the killing, just a further incentive, main reason was operational.

Also, why would Thaksin have him killed at that point if he were going to do so? Not only was he going to be a scourge to the military, but I actually think Seh Daeng was proving a useful decoy, distraction attention away from the generals who were really directing the men in black. Still, as I say, we'll never know for sure. He was such a loose cannon that you could see reasons for both sides to want to put him out of action.

"why would Thaksin have him killed"

Because he was saying that he was now in charge of the revolt, on the orders of the Big Boss, and the other Red-leaders should take their instructions from him, also that he was linked to the MiBs. This was embarrassing to Mr T, he didn't want this stuff coming out into the open, unlike the military who were delighted at someone openly saying who was directing the whole mess.

That person has yet to have any related-charges laid against him, but no doubt a general-amnesty would be comforting to have, just in case.

And Chalerm should name names, if only to help his boss's little-helper at the DSI, unless of course that trail too does not lead to the government but to those trying to overthrow them on-the-streets. But I wouldn't take any bets, that he ever will speak up. So much for "fighting for justice" !

[Emptyset]

The video!

Thanks for finding it, Whybother. Yes, pretty much as I remembered. Impossible to tell if he died or exactly where he was shot, but obviously he didn't look in a good way.

[jdinasia]

The video!

Thanks for finding it, Whybother. Yes, pretty much as I remembered. Impossible to tell if he died or exactly where he was shot, but obviously he didn't look in a good way.

and obviously it wasn't suicide, I remember the reports that day saying he died. Were there men in black there? yes.. were they Seh Daeng's "ronin"? can't say. They didn't, after all, run around in daylight hours sporting AR's AK's etc. If you watch a few more of the videos in that set you will see MiB firing towards the military and from behind redshirts. Yet again making the laying of all civilian deaths at the feet of the military a blatantly wrong assumption.