Thai Deputy PM warns of third party involvement in protest

[Emptyset]

What happened to the big speech from Suthep? Was supposed to be at 6pm, where he was going to make his big announce.

Aim from The Nation tweeted the measures he announced: https://twitter.com/Aim_NT - including gathering signatures for impeachment of PT MPs, boycotting Shinawatra companies, social sanction against MPs and further protests.

Suthep: "This is only once that we will eradicate Thaksin Regime from the country. Dn't be afraid. Stop being afraid". "(Once) the number of protesters reaches 1 million, we will use ultimate measure" - well, Suthep, I'm not sure what the 'ultimate measure' is, but since the number will never reach anywhere near 1 million, I guess we'll never find out.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Emptyset

[Robby nz]

What if Yingluck negotiated with the current protesters - and the government wants to negotiate with Suthep, but he isn't interested - and offered early elections in 9 months? Should the protesters accept it?

Every party in the coalition has pledged not to revive the bill (didn't they sign something or other)? But I agree the PM should do more. It should at least be made as explicit as possible the bill won't be revived, not using equivocal language like 'suspended' which could mean it's been ditched, or it could mean the process has been halted for now, but we'll see about that in 180 days. An apology would also be nice, but you know, that involves loss of face so I can't see that happening.

I'm not convinced any of those moves would stop the protesters though, at least the hardcore. The minimum they'll settle for is an election, imo, but there are those who want far more than that.

First off emptyset I apologise for cutting out the first paragraph of your post, however I only want to address the second 2.

I very much doubt that Suthep and Co would accept the offer of an election in 9 months time for that would still give PT time to pass the 2.2 trillion bill and to revive the amnesty bill after what is now 175 days.

As you say Yingluck has used the term 'suspended' in regard to the amnesty bill which I am sure has been taken as an indication by her opponents that a revival is more than likely. Given Thaksins push for amnesty it would seem almost inevitable.

It must also be remembered that the bill would give amnesty to all those who have committed corruption and to the red leaders and to Abhisit and Suthep who, incidentally have said they don't want amnesty.

If I understand correctly the coalition partners singed an agreement to withdraw the 6 bills that had not been put before the house and that Yingluck said she would abide by the senate decision, which brings us back to "Suspended"

I am not familiar with all the laws involved but I am sure that there must be a way the amnesty bill that has been returned could be completely withdrawn and scrapped by another vote in the house.

For it is said that they can not reactivate it for the 180 days but I have never seen it said anywhere that it could not be dumped completely.

However even if they did that there is still the option of introducing another completely new amnesty bill.

As for stopping the protest ; PT have, all by themselves, destroyed trust in what the say so it is unlikely that whatever they said would be believed.

So what at this point would end the protests I don't know.

[Sunderland]

What happened to the big speech from Suthep? Was supposed to be at 6pm, where he was going to make his big announce.

Aim from The Nation tweeted the measures he announced: https://twitter.com/Aim_NT - including gathering signatures for impeachment of PT MPs, boycotting Shinawatra companies, social sanction against MPs and further protests.

Suthep: "This is only once that we will eradicate Thaksin Regime from the country. Dn't be afraid. Stop being afraid". "(Once) the number of protesters reaches 1 million, we will use ultimate measure" - well, Suthep, I'm not sure what the 'ultimate measure' is, but since the number will never reach anywhere near 1 million, I guess we'll never find out.

I don't think the dems and friends will get a million on the streets, but there are a lot of politicians (and financial backers) on both sides of the political fence who are nervous about losing out, and with the rhetoric being stepped up a notch in coming days before the constitution ruling, it is quite possible that it could kick off somewhere and that might lead to bigger problems, especially if the police can't/don't control the problems without bias.

[Slip]

What if Yingluck negotiated with the current protesters - and the government wants to negotiate with Suthep, but he isn't interested - and offered early elections in 9 months? Should the protesters accept it?

Every party in the coalition has pledged not to revive the bill (didn't they sign something or other)? But I agree the PM should do more. It should at least be made as explicit as possible the bill won't be revived, not using equivocal language like 'suspended' which could mean it's been ditched, or it could mean the process has been halted for now, but we'll see about that in 180 days. An apology would also be nice, but you know, that involves loss of face so I can't see that happening.

I'm not convinced any of those moves would stop the protesters though, at least the hardcore. The minimum they'll settle for is an election, imo, but there are those who want far more than that.

First off emptyset I apologise for cutting out the first paragraph of your post, however I only want to address the second 2.

I very much doubt that Suthep and Co would accept the offer of an election in 9 months time for that would still give PT time to pass the 2.2 trillion bill and to revive the amnesty bill after what is now 175 days.

As you say Yingluck has used the term 'suspended' in regard to the amnesty bill which I am sure has been taken as an indication by her opponents that a revival is more than likely. Given Thaksins push for amnesty it would seem almost inevitable.

It must also be remembered that the bill would give amnesty to all those who have committed corruption and to the red leaders and to Abhisit and Suthep who, incidentally have said they don't want amnesty.

If I understand correctly the coalition partners singed an agreement to withdraw the 6 bills that had not been put before the house and that Yingluck said she would abide by the senate decision, which brings us back to "Suspended"

I am not familiar with all the laws involved but I am sure that there must be a way the amnesty bill that has been returned could be completely withdrawn and scrapped by another vote in the house.

For it is said that they can not reactivate it for the 180 days but I have never seen it said anywhere that it could not be dumped completely.

However even if they did that there is still the option of introducing another completely new amnesty bill.

As for stopping the protest ; PT have, all by themselves, destroyed trust in what the say so it is unlikely that whatever they said would be believed.

So what at this point would end the protests I don't know.

I may have misunderstood. Is it not the case that owing to the legal framework of the country, there is only one person at this moment in time who can withdraw this bill- the man who proposed it?

Does anyone know if he has commented on the matter?

EDIT: For the avoidance of doubt, I'm referring to the fact that this bill was proposed by a PTP MP, not the Higher Institution

Edited November 15, 2013 by Slip

[Halion]

"Including road blocking which is strongly inappropriate" This guy is dumb, is he not aware that the Bangkok roads have been blocked for years owing to ineffectual and poorly enforced traffic laws and the inability of government to provide structured public transport and road systems which reduce traffic density not simply move it from one place to another via a toll road. In my opinion there should be no tolls on any of the rods in B

[Pi Sek]

So, Isaan Rambo, one of Seh Daeng's "hawks", is saying there will be trouble at the anti-govt protests. Is this a warning or a threat?

It is quite possible, especially as many Red Shirts from Korat are planning counter-rallies next week... and he is the UDD's Korat warlord, so he is possibly in a very good position to make this prediction.

As for his claim of weapons at the protest site - denied very quickly by the organisers and, given the lack of any violent behaviour (apart from whistle-blowing "assaults"), a claim that can only be considered baseless without evidence - I can't think why he hasn't already been hit by a defamation suit.

[Artisi]

No need for outside agitators. The other paper is reporting that Constitutional Court judges have secretly met with Suthep in a manner which was quoted As being similar to the events that lead to the dissolution of the Samak government. Perhaps the velvet-gloved hand is guiding events again. Against the wishes of the electorate. Odd the Nation and this website is not carrying this major story. On second thoughts, not odd at all. I guess the country is not big enough for two women.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I would be nice to develop the discussion on the "velvet -gloved hand", but that could well lead into very dangerous territory.

[makecoldplayhistory]

The police must have had someone undercover at the drug addicts' and unemployeds' planning conference.

[dru2]

The clutching at straws by this current administration to discredit the demonstrations against the administration itself and its whitewashing bills is indeed beyond belief.

Perhaps this administration is myopic, thus they haven't noticed that to date there have been no arson attacks, no shots fired no looting of premises, no invasion of hospitals etc unlike the Thaksin sponsored Red Shirt fun away days at 500 baht per diem events of 2010.

It must really be exasperating to see that both anti Amnesty bill and anti government demonstrations are being conducted without violence from the protesters ( the public at large) as opposed to a paid bunch of agitators as we all witnessed before in 2010 under a Thaksin dictatorship directorship

And maybe the most important omission to explain the peaceful situation today. No Army.

Was there honestly NO RED violence before the Army were involved. I think there were numerous occasions. Also the Army were called in as a last resort when the police didn't do an effective job. But more importantly after the Bangkok Based RED leaders reneged on an agreement at the last moment. So Abhisit and his government did everything within their power to end the protest in a peaceful manner. They even warned the protesters that the army would engage.. They the protesters had EVERY opportunity to leave. But CHOSE to stay (although some did say that they could not leave as the RED guards had kept their ID cards)

But anyway.. Let's stick with the OP.. How did the deputy PM allegedly know that there are/were military weapons on site?

And if it is TRUE why aren't the POLICE at this moment going in to retrieve them?

It's frankly pointless to mention honesty and Fab4 in the same post.

[hellodolly]

They can't be for real.

BANGKOK, Nov 15 – Deputy Prime Minister Pracha Promnok today warned of stern action against protesters at the Democracy Monument if they go overboard in their anti-government demonstration.

Is he saying they should not use the same tactics as many of the ministers did in 2010

He admitted concern about possible infiltration by a third party to instigate violence in light of the demonstrators’ announcement to strengthen and spread out their movement in the capital later today.

Of course it would have to be third party individuals. No way could the government policies and mismanagement have any thing to do with it

They have the right to rally as long as they do not infringe on other people’s right including road blocking which is strongly inappropriate, he said.

Do as I say not as I do

Pol Gen Pracha quoted an intelligence report as saying that other people, especially drug addicts and the unemployed, will enter Bangkok to create unrest.

Not likely to happen. Those are the ones who work for Thaksin and he had shipped in March of 2010

He said the government would be ready to hold talks if Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva and former Democrat MP Suthep Thaugsuban seek negotiations to end the political deadlock.

Now they are willing to talk. What a change from when they were passing the bill in Parliament

“Please show your intention if you’re ready for negotiations. The government is willing to talk. Mr Abhisit was on the rally stage almost every night, he should talk with us. If he can’t wait for the general elections in the next two years, he is considered impatient,” said Gen Pracha. (MCOT online news)

Funny that is not what they said when they did not allow open debate. Not that it matters Thaksin had all ready given the orders to obey him and like the good little sheeple they obeyed him 310 to 0 How much talk will it take to get an honest vote from them?

In my opinion not enough time in the world to get those phoney wannabe's to honestly discuss things.

Why all of a sudden are they trying to include the Democrats in the Government while at the same time trying to disband them (failed) and charge them with phoney trumped up charges charges. [ If the government stays out of it charges bound to fail ]

[hellodolly]

"Pol Gen Pracha quoted an intelligence report as saying that other people, especially drug addicts and the unemployed, will enter Bangkok to create unrest."

There are days when I think I've heard just about everything and then lunchtime arrives along with this statement!!!

Another example of how this mob think the people are stupid. Actually insulting to the Thai population at large

Well you have to admit they have been shipping in bus loads of red shirts. He is color blind as well as not playing with a full deck.

[hellodolly]

Pol Gen Pracha quoted an intelligence report as saying that other people, especially drug addicts and the unemployed, will enter Bangkok to create unrest.

I worked in drug therapy before and can assure this moron, mass rallies with hundreds of cops around, extended cctv surveillance, blazing sun and heat or pouring rain are the least things a junkie is looking for. Why are guys making stupid statements like this not working as gardeners anymore.

Btw according to the official unemployment rate of the country (0.89% by July 2013) the one and a half unemployed people gathering the protest would hardly create any havoc.

Well what you say about druggies is true. How ever Thaksin has close ties with interests in Burma and Cambodia that would allow druggies to reconsider there willingness. In fact beg for the opportunity.

[Emptyset]

First off emptyset I apologise for cutting out the first paragraph of your post, however I only want to address the second 2.

I very much doubt that Suthep and Co would accept the offer of an election in 9 months time for that would still give PT time to pass the 2.2 trillion bill and to revive the amnesty bill after what is now 175 days.

As you say Yingluck has used the term 'suspended' in regard to the amnesty bill which I am sure has been taken as an indication by her opponents that a revival is more than likely. Given Thaksins push for amnesty it would seem almost inevitable.

It must also be remembered that the bill would give amnesty to all those who have committed corruption and to the red leaders and to Abhisit and Suthep who, incidentally have said they don't want amnesty.

If I understand correctly the coalition partners singed an agreement to withdraw the 6 bills that had not been put before the house and that Yingluck said she would abide by the senate decision, which brings us back to "Suspended"

I am not familiar with all the laws involved but I am sure that there must be a way the amnesty bill that has been returned could be completely withdrawn and scrapped by another vote in the house.

For it is said that they can not reactivate it for the 180 days but I have never seen it said anywhere that it could not be dumped completely.

However even if they did that there is still the option of introducing another completely new amnesty bill.

As for stopping the protest ; PT have, all by themselves, destroyed trust in what the say so it is unlikely that whatever they said would be believed.

So what at this point would end the protests I don't know.

I think the coalition partners signed an agreement not to revive the amnesty full stop. But as Khunken wrote, that doesn't really mean too much, at least not in the eyes of those who count (i.e. the people protesting against the government). I don't know if there's anyway they could pull the bill completely so it's definitely off the table with no chance of it being revived after 175 days either. You'd think if there were, and they were sincere, they'd already have done this. It's something I'd be interested in finding out.

Regards ending the protests: agree, as I said in a previous post, I think it's unlikely the protesters would call it a day at this point even if there were a way to ensure the bill were completely dead. The Democrats see this as their best opportunity since this government took office. I think it is, but the way I see it, things are still in the government's favour. Like Sunderland said though, if things were to kick off, that might change.

[skills32]

What I want to know is what colour shirts this new mob is going to wear.

[LuckyLew]

"Pol Gen Pracha quoted an intelligence report as saying that other people, especially drug addicts and the unemployed, will enter Bangkok to create unrest."

There are days when I think I've heard just about everything and then lunchtime arrives along with this statement!!!

And this is coming from a Pol Gen .. of the confidence it must build in the people her serves 555

[tingtongteesood]

He admitted concern about possible infiltration by a third party to instigate violence

The crooked crooks in power desperately want there to be violence so they can hold it against their opponents. Don't let it happen !!. If there is any make sure it is comitted by Red Shirts only and make sure you get evidence of it. Show the world the true face of the red lunatic thugs.

[WhizBang]

Deputy PM warns of third party involvement in protest

Translation: The PTP have dispatched undercover reds into the protest to stir things up.

[Skywalker69]

Isn't that the guy who was known as "Issan Rambo"? A "true model of a peaceful leader" at the red shirt rallies in 2010?

[gabruce]

UPDATE:

Thai ruling party warns of unrest risk at anti-govt rally

BANGKOK, November 15, 2013 (AFP) - Thailand's ruling party on Friday warned that anti-government protests in the capital could descend into violence, accusing a key opposition leader of stashing "weapons" at the rally site.

Demonstrators angry at an amnesty proposal that may have allowed the return of self-exiled former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, have remained on Bangkok's streets despite the parliamentary defeat of the controversial bill.

"There are war weapons being kept in the middle of the protest. I want to tell people who might want to go to the rally today to stay home," Suporn Atthawong, deputy secretary to Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, told reporters.

Suporn, a key member of the pro-Thaksin "Red Shirts", did not elaborate on what type of arms he believed were at the rally site in the historical centre of the capital. His claims were swiftly rejected by protest organisers.

The rallies, which drew some 2,000 people by midday Friday, are the latest in a long and sometimes bloody series of political rallies in turbulent Thailand in recent years.

"I can confirm that their goal is now to overthrow government," said Suporn, who is widely known by the nickname "Rambo Isaan", referring to a region in northeast Thailand considered as Thaksin's heartland.

He accused rally leader and former deputy premier Suthep Thaugsuban of plotting unrest.

Protest spokesman Akanat Promphan said there was "not a single weapon" at the site.

"No one believes this story and you can see that by the high attendance," he said.

Experts say the opposition Democrat Party, which Suthep resigned from to head the protests, has benefited from anger over the amnesty.

Up to 50,000 people gathered in Bangkok on Monday evening to voice their discontent, blowing whistles, chanting and waving Thai flags.

But a senate vote that night rejected the bill and appeared to draw the sting from the proposal, with protest numbers reduced to their hundreds in recent days and little discernable take up of a Democrat call for a Wednesday to Friday general strike.

Thailand has been rocked by several rounds of opposing protests since Thaksin's government was deposed in an army coup in 2006 that have periodically brought chaos to the kingdom.

Thaksin is a hugely polarising figure in Thailand, drawing great support from the rural poor but hatred from many of the Bangkok middle and upper classes.

About 90 people died and nearly 1,900 were wounded in a series of street clashes in 2010 between mostly unarmed Red Shirt demonstrators and security forces firing live rounds in central Bangkok.

Polls in 2011 brought Thaksin's Red Shirt-backed Puea Thai party to power with his sister Yingluck Shinawatra now prime minister.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-11-15

So, if the protestors don't know about the weapons, maybe the government or red-shirts have a weapons cache there - it might even be an old one from their 2010 occupation of Bangkok. Also, I would doubt that the protestors would be hiring drug-addicts to disrupt their own protest, so who else would do that? Too funny for words.

[mikemac]

Deputy Prime Minister Pracha Promnok today warned of stern action against protesters at the Democracy Monument if they go overboard in their anti-government demonstration.

Does going overboard include blockading the city, burning stacks of tires, attacking government forces with weapons which they supposedly did not have, taking over hospitals and causing millions of baht damage to a shopping center by setting fire to it etc etc etc ?

[rubl]

""Of course, I think Abhisit should've resigned when it was clear people were being killed, just as I think this government should call an election before resorting to an armed response to the protesters (even if it is in response to people on the protesters side using weapons).""

So does that mean rather than negotiating with the UDD and proposing to setup elections in four or five months, Abhisit should have given in and step down immediately? Does that mean you think the current PM should be 'more' thoughtful and step down before things escalate (even though there is no indication of violence) ?

Well the original proposal was to dissolve the house in 9 months wasn't it? I think he should've stepped down after April 10th when it was clear that it was very likely more people would be killed. It would've been an act of self-sacrifice, no doubt about that. Anyway, yes, more to point: I don't think YL should step down now, but I certainly think that should be a card she's willing to play without much hesitation should things escalate into people getting killed. Of course, she has a huge advantage that Abhisit didn't have in that she's still likely to win the next election (unless banned by the court, of course) and she's more likely to preserve that advantage, imo, by stepping down than by persevering when people are being killed. Such a move would, of course, also allow her to maintain her claim to democratic principles, especially important w/r/t international perceptions.

I disagree with parts.

After the April 10th retreat of the army it should be clear that a legitimate government cannot just step down. That would be like agreeing with terrorism.

As for Ms. Yingluck's options, I fear those are big brother thaksin's options. As it is he may be less likely to 'win' the next elections in the sense that his party probably may get much less seats. The zigzag position on red-shirts seems to turn back on him. Of course, as all know, our dear golf caddy is only an advising criminal fugitive to whom no one needs to listen.

The 'maintain her calm' seems a bit hilarious, at least to me. All her 'I don't know, ask my cabinet, please wait, give it time, etc., etc.' doesn't really indicate she is on the right level to be either calm or panicky.

All IMHO of course

[Ricardo]

Could the DPM have been referring to armed undercover policemen, caught inside the protest, as the third-party trying to wind tension up ?

Surely not.

[hammered]

Thailand has a history of the involvement of third forces in protest times. It is also interesting to read what Sondhi was saying just before he got a bullet in the head.