Why does Buddhism in Thailand have such greed for money?

[fabianfred]

Here in the North of Thailand there are several 'big' festivals in the calendar each year where virtually everyone in the village come with offerings to the temple. Kathin, Makha Puja, Start and end of Pansaa, Salaakaphat, Poy Luang...are the main ones. At these you see everyone with 'money trees' showing off many banknotes in a display. At other times in the year temples get involved in distributing envelopes asking for donations for various reasons. It now seems to be popular for temples to build a chedi on the temple grounds, a bit like 'keeping up with the Jones's'....that temple has one so we had better build one too. Just another excuse to bring funds into the temple.

Considering that monks are not really supposed to have any interest or involvement in money, it all seems rather strange. The monks do not own the temples, but merely reside there. The temples are built by the locals with funds provided by them or outsourced. Maintenance should be their affair too and not the concern of the monks. Monks are not supposed to be used for manual labour, but you often see them getting involved in the actual building work. The village owns the temple and are responsible for its upkeep.

There still seems to be quite a lot of building of new temples, but there are hundreds, if not thousands of temples without any monks in residence.

What is all this money for and where does it end up? In the bank accounts of monks who shouldn't be keeping it, or passing through the hands of lay committees... how much sticks to those hands?

Although the lay people are told to make merit, mainly by giving, to get a better rebirth, that is not the true teaching of the Buddha. It is just the first of ten ways to make merit, and earns the least amount, but since other ways require more personal effort, it is the most popular. Some monks never even teach the lay people about the other ways. When lay people are practicing wrongly the monks rarely tell them, because they do not want to annoy them and cause them to take their offerings elsewhere.

All this building of temples and chedis etc. doesn't seem to increase the lay people's faith and understanding in the Dhamma.

The Kathina ceremony was originally to provide robes to monks after their three month rains-retreat, but actually most temples are overflowing with robes which get donated at every funeral, so most monks have far too many sets of robes and the temples have cupboards full of them. So how does all the money come into the Kathina...that was never a part of it. It seems that every opportunity to get money from the lay people is created, and the poor people blindly follow the custom.

Money corrupts, and the more money coming through the hands of monks is a very corrupting influence, and also on the lay committee. If the lay people see the monks lusting after more and more money, they will naturally think it OK to get a share too.

[uptheos]

Works for the Thai's.....why not just leave it there and chill out?

[Thaddeus]

Thainess.

[bdw]

Buddhism in Thailand is SO far from what the Tibetans call Buddhism.
Buddha taught about enlightenment, not greed.

Thais pray for personal gain, and wear Buddha amulets to protect them from harm.

It's a great big laughing stock to real Buddhists.

Thais are very hypocritical, but that's because they see Buddhism as a religion instead of a philosophy of life, which is what it was intended to be.

It's the same as preachers bangin' on the congregation about whoring and then he's in a brothel on Sunday afternoon.

Edited November 17, 2013 by bdw

[Jip99]

Buddhism in Thailand is SO far from what the Tibetans call Buddhism.

Buddha taught about enlightenment, not greed.

Thais pray for personal gain, and wear Buddha amulets to protect them from harm.

It's a great big laughing stock to real Buddhists.

Thais are very hypocritical, but that's because they see Buddhism as a religion instead of a philosophy of life, which is what it was intended to be.

It's the same as preachers bangin' on the congregation about whoring and then he's in a brothel on Sunday afternoon.

preachers bangin' on the congregation

This is one phrase I never expected to read in the Buddhism forum.

It is clear that just wearing a saffron robe does not make you a man of God.

[willyumiii]

I often tell the wife..

"if we need money, I can just put on a saffron robe, shave my head and pass out empty envelopes to the poor people. They feel guilty if they don't stuff them with cash and return them."

I agree that Thai Buddhism is way off the mark.

The monks should be educating the people in the teachings of the Buddha.

Instead, they collect money and promote social events.

A good place to start: the education:

It is not O.K. to kill every living thing you see!

[rockyysdt]

Hi Fred.

What do you think can be done to overcome this situation?

[napawan28]

https://www.facebook.com/v.vajiramedhi?ref=ts&fref=ts

If you want to know more about Thai buddhism.............This is real thai buddhism teaching

[fabianfred]

Hi Fred.

What do you think can be done to overcome this situation?

I doubt if anything can be done to stop it...once the rot has set in a reversal is virtually impossible. It is of course in line with the inevitable corruption of the dhamma and teaching false dhamma by false monks which the Buddha predicted.

The majority of Lays and even monks just want a better rebirth because they do not understand about Nibbana and think it far beyond their reach, so they think they can buy merit or good karma. Keep the precepts just so-so, a little bit good ... a little bit bad....some pleasure, some suffering, just enough to give life flavour and hope to get a bit higher next time. The thought of Nibbana and no more rebirth doesn't really sit well with them...they think a life with a bit of suffering is still better than no life at all which they think Nibbana means. They think you have to be a really great and good person to reach Arahant....something far too distant from them...maybe after many more lives just slowly ascending the ladder....

They certainly wouldn't listen to a Farang trying to tell them about Buddhism since they were born into it and therefore have to know much more than we do about it (their way of thinking..)

It was very frustrating to me as a monk...wanting to teach the real dhamma to the Thai schoolkids but not getting given the chance by the Thai monks who just taught them to be good...keep the precepts...and make merit to hope to be reborn in heaven.

[BKKdreaming]

they learned from the Catholic church !

[AloisAmrein]

Religion is opium for the people and an instrument of domination.

[nidieunimaitre]

they learned from the Catholic church !

I am the last one to defend the catholic church, but please explain how the catholics taught the thai budhists.

[Deserted]

The problem of greed is endemic within Thai culture and like many others, I have often thought that many of the temples in and around Bangkok do not demonstrate the virtues that Buddha taught. The obsession with gold and money trees, like you said, perhaps being the more obvious examples. I don't think most people in the city question this because they are not practicing Buddhists. I can't really speak for 'up-country'.

[casindonet]

What about the famous, extremely rich jetsetting monk? Last known to be in Laos...swept under the carpet it seems.

Sent from my GT-I9200 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Deserted]

He's just one of many, there are far more drug-addict, drug-dealers and alcoholics passing themselves off as monks around the kingdom.

[Thaddeus]

He's just one of many, there are far more drug-addict, drug-dealers and alcoholics passing themselves off as monks around the kingdom.

Which begs the question, how do they get away with it?

[Deserted]

Often they don't but many turn to Buddha to cure them of their own vices or to change their ways. Some do so successfully but my feeling is that many just give up and go back to how they were. I think to some degree the Thais will be patient with people who have made the effort to change themselves but there's obviously a limit to that. And more famous cases like the jet-setting don't help. Have to say most of the monks in the temple near us a covered in tattoos and look thoroughly miserable all the time.

[Bpuumike]

they learned from the Catholic church !

Yep, it's big business.

[Sirius1935]

Thai Buddhism is a joke. Pure Disney. It is hardly related to the teachings of Buddha who said:

1. Don't build statues of me.

2. Don't build temples.

3. Don't restrict yourself to "Religion".

Just sit under a tree and think.

However the Religion that they call Buddhism as practiced in Thailand is ideal for the population that live in this country.

[Ticketmaster]

I live next to a temple whose greed is so extreme as to be mind boggling. I live in a fairly poor village, yet the wat voraciously sucks money from its people like a libidinous female mosquito sucks blood from her host. The begging for money by the monks is incessant (they are not supposed to ask for anything, but they pass out those ubiquitous orange buckets full of those empty money sticks, and the villagers feel compelled to disgorge what little money they have to decorate those sticks before the monks return to pick it up). They also have one "event" after another with the loudspeakers blaring, the MC always talking about money, who has given what, and how much more they "need." They rarely talk about dhamma. They constantly build, build, build. They recently finished a big new house for the abbot (head monk) -- yes, a full blown house. Even though our village is fairly small, the wat is now fairly good sized and growing, while the people who pay for it live in sheet metal shacks with no windows or screens.

It is absolutely shameless. If they ever had a program where they were collecting money to improve the local school (buy computers, etc.) I would be delighted and would participate. But alas,that never happens. They drain all the wealth from the village and keep every baht. It is sad.

Right now, as I am writing this at 7:15 a.m., the loudspeakers are blaring over at the wat. They are reporting all the money they collected at the Loy Krathong festivities last night and giving the names of each donor with amount contributed. During the last big festival (can't remember the name) this wat collected a mind boggling 1,000,000 baht from this poor village. Nobody has any money for the kids' higher educations, so they just stay on the farm.

Edit: And yes, none of this has anything to do with anything the Buddha taught. In fact, it is the antipathy.

But on balance, that's the way with all organized religions. Organized religions are and always have been seats of power and money fuels power. I was at a big Catholic cathedral down in Mexico years ago. Some local was acting as my guide. I shook my head, looking at the opulent cathedral and the poor village in which it was situated. I said to the guide, "It all cost so my money. If a villager had only two chickens to feed his family, the priest would surely take one of them." The guide laughed and said matter of factly, "Only one? He would take them both and leave God to care for the family!"

Edit: And yes, nothing most of the Christians teach/do has anything to do with anything Jesus taught. In fact, it is the antipathy. Ditto for Muslims and Mohammad. The basic teachings of Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed were quite similar. If the world actually followed their teachings, religions as we know them wouldn't even exist.

And such as it is. One of the biggest evils to ever plague humankind and prey on its poor is religion -- religion of all ilks. My favorite definition of "faith" is: The ability to believe the thing one knows not to be true.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Ticketmaster

[khaowong1]

I live next to a temple whose greed is so extreme as to be mind boggling. I live in a fairly poor village, yet the wat voraciously sucks money from its people like a libidinous female mosquito sucks blood from her host. The begging for money by the monks is incessant (they are not supposed to ask for anything, but they pass out those ubiquitous orange buckets full of those empty money sticks, and the villagers feel compelled to disgorge what little money they have to decorate those sticks before the monks return to pick it up). They also have one "event" after another with the loudspeakers blaring, the MC always talking about money, who has given what, and how much more they "need." They rarely talk about dhamma. They constantly build, build, build. They recently finished a big new house for the abbot (head monk) -- yes, a full blown house. Even though our village is fairly small, the wat is now fairly good sized and growing, while the people who pay for it live in sheet metal shacks with no windows or screens.

It is absolutely shameless. If they ever had a program where they were collecting money to improve the local school (buy computers, etc.) I would be delighted and would participate. But alas,that never happens. They drain all the wealth from the village and keep every baht. It is sad.

Right now, as I am writing this at 7:15 a.m., the loudspeakers are blaring over at the wat. They are reporting all the money they collected at the Loy Krathong festivities last night and giving the names of each donor with amount contributed. During the last big festival (can't remember the name) this wat collected a mind boggling 1,000,000 baht from this poor village. Nobody has any money for the kids' higher educations, so they just stay on the farm.

Edit: And yes, none of this has anything to do with anything the Buddha taught. In fact, it is the antipathy.

But on balance, that's the way with all organized religions. Organized religions are and always have been seats of power and money fuels power. I was at a big Catholic cathedral down in Mexico years ago. Some local was acting as my guide. I shook my head, looking at the opulent cathedral and the poor village in which it was situated. I said to the guide, "It all cost so my money. If a villager had only two chickens to feed his family, the priest would surely take one of them." The guide laughed and said matter of factly, "Only one? He would take them both and leave God to care for the family!"

Edit: And yes, nothing most of the Christians teach/do has anything to do with anything Jesus taught. In fact, it is the antipathy. Ditto for Muslims and Mohammad. The basic teachings of Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed were quite similar. If the world actually followed their teachings, religions as we know them wouldn't even exist.

And such as it is. One of the biggest evils to ever plague humankind and prey on its poor is religion -- religion of all ilks. My favorite definition of "faith" is: The ability to believe the thing one knows not to be true.

Very good post Tickemaster.. I think you pretty much covered all the bases.

[Jip99]

they learned from the Catholic church !

I am the last one to defend the catholic church, but please explain how the catholics taught the thai budhists.

I don't think he can.

Gratuitous statements can rarely be justified.

[Jawnie]

Religion is opium for the people and an instrument of domination.

So Mao, and every Chinese leader since Mao, did away with religion and focused on being instruments of domination.

[Thaddeus]

Religion is opium for the people and an instrument of domination.

So Mao, and every Chinese leader since Mao, did away with religion and focused on being instruments of domination.

Still a belief system, a religion with a different label. (and that one does have a god, self appointed)

[rockyysdt]

I live next to a temple whose greed is so extreme as to be mind boggling. I live in a fairly poor village, yet the wat voraciously sucks money from its people like a libidinous female mosquito sucks blood from her host. The begging for money by the monks is incessant (they are not supposed to ask for anything, but they pass out those ubiquitous orange buckets full of those empty money sticks, and the villagers feel compelled to disgorge what little money they have to decorate those sticks before the monks return to pick it up). They also have one "event" after another with the loudspeakers blaring, the MC always talking about money, who has given what, and how much more they "need." They rarely talk about dhamma. They constantly build, build, build. They recently finished a big new house for the abbot (head monk) -- yes, a full blown house. Even though our village is fairly small, the wat is now fairly good sized and growing, while the people who pay for it live in sheet metal shacks with no windows or screens.

It is absolutely shameless. If they ever had a program where they were collecting money to improve the local school (buy computers, etc.) I would be delighted and would participate. But alas,that never happens. They drain all the wealth from the village and keep every baht. It is sad.

Right now, as I am writing this at 7:15 a.m., the loudspeakers are blaring over at the wat. They are reporting all the money they collected at the Loy Krathong festivities last night and giving the names of each donor with amount contributed. During the last big festival (can't remember the name) this wat collected a mind boggling 1,000,000 baht from this poor village. Nobody has any money for the kids' higher educations, so they just stay on the farm.

Edit: And yes, none of this has anything to do with anything the Buddha taught. In fact, it is the antipathy.

But on balance, that's the way with all organized religions. Organized religions are and always have been seats of power and money fuels power. I was at a big Catholic cathedral down in Mexico years ago. Some local was acting as my guide. I shook my head, looking at the opulent cathedral and the poor village in which it was situated. I said to the guide, "It all cost so my money. If a villager had only two chickens to feed his family, the priest would surely take one of them." The guide laughed and said matter of factly, "Only one? He would take them both and leave God to care for the family!"

Edit: And yes, nothing most of the Christians teach/do has anything to do with anything Jesus taught. In fact, it is the antipathy. Ditto for Muslims and Mohammad. The basic teachings of Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed were quite similar. If the world actually followed their teachings, religions as we know them wouldn't even exist.

And such as it is. One of the biggest evils to ever plague humankind and prey on its poor is religion -- religion of all ilks. My favorite definition of "faith" is: The ability to believe the thing one knows not to be true.

If it is true, that attachment to greed, delusion, aversion, will attract kharma/vipaka, what will eventually happen to these Monks who prey on the poor in their communities?

[BKKdreaming]

they learned from the Catholic church !

I am the last one to defend the catholic church, but please explain how the catholics taught the thai budhists.

I don't think he can.

Gratuitous statements can rarely be justified.

ummmmm

well lets see......taking $$$$ from the poor and telling them they will do better in the afterlife

Head Priests or Monks who have a vows of poverty , but live in big churches / temples

the church owning more land and buildings that they really need but wanting more.....

I hope that justified my first statement !

[IMA_FARANG]

As usual you are confusing Buddhisim and Buddhisim as practiced in Thailand.

The em[hesis on money is what the Thais demand .... it gives them status among their neighbors to be able to put on a bif show ... makes them seem a big person at the Wat and impresses the neighbors.

Its a show they all want to impress the neighbors.

[nidieunimaitre]

Religion is opium for the people and an instrument of domination.

So Mao, and every Chinese leader since Mao, did away with religion and focused on being instruments of domination.

Still a belief system, a religion with a different label. (and that one does have a god, self appointed)

Religion is opium for the people, Karl used to say. True!

Marxism is opium for the intellectuals, we anarchists used to say (flashback from the sixties).

[Jip99]

they learned from the Catholic church !

I am the last one to defend the catholic church, but please explain how the catholics taught the thai budhists.

I don't think he can.

Gratuitous statements can rarely be justified.

ummmmm

well lets see......taking $$$$ from the poor and telling them they will do better in the afterlife

Head Priests or Monks who have a vows of poverty , but live in big churches / temples

the church owning more land and buildings that they really need but wanting more.....

I hope that justified my first statement !

It didn't.

How Thais adapted their form of Buddhism had nothing to do with Catholicism.

[nidieunimaitre]

Religion is opium for the people and an instrument of domination.

So Mao, and every Chinese leader since Mao, did away with religion and focused on being instruments of domination.

Still a belief system, a religion with a different label. (and that one does have a god, self appointed)

Religion is opium for the people, Karl said in the 19th century, and that is true!

Marxism is opium for the intellectuals, we anarchists replied.