Welcome To Heathorw?

[Digger]

The mess that goes by the name Heathrow is systematic of whats been developing in Britian over the last 30-40 years. Unfortunately, too much attention is given to the little people and vested interests and not enough given to a common sense approach.

I used to live near Heathrow and remember when I was about 16, they started the public enquiry for the expansion of Heathrow and/or new runways and more terminals. That was 22 years ago. As I recall, The planning enquiry was scheduled for 6 months. Six years later it was still going on. At the outset, everybody knew what the outcome had to be - but Britain being Britain had to listen to the views of everybody and everything just grinds to a halt.

Having said that, its incredible how much the airport has continued to grow and develop when you consider the fact that the place is built on a postage stamp and has only two runways - I dont know the facts but I'm sure the passenger numbers have grown massively over the last 20 years and even with the incedible increase in flights, Heathrow still remains relatively serious trouble free (i.e no crashes, collisions on the ground etc).

[GU22]

For more than 30 years various governments have been trying to entice airlines away from Heathrow to other sites, Gatwick and Stanstead in particular. The problem is that Heathrow is so ###### close to London, and the airlines don't want to move.

Another problem is that the south east of England is one of the most densely populated regions in the world. Finding room to expand existing or build new airports is getting increasingly difficult.

Any one remember Maplin/Foulness? A plan in the 1970's to build an airport in the Thames estuary which fell down because some wild birds would be made homeless.

Well, the idea is being looked at again:

Development of Airport Capacity in the Thames Estuary (pdf)

[PeaceBlondie]

As an infrequent user of LHR, my whine (pardon me, I don't whinge; I'm American ) starts with the sorry excuse for internet machines. Warning: they only collect quid; that is their only purpose. Don't even touch the machines.

Last time I used LHR, we were arriving from Vienna and had to stop at Stansted for additional fuel after many delays in landing. Of course, we couldn't get off the plane.

You can't even lean sideways in those darn seats inside Heathrow. I finally found an area I could lean over and try to sleep, only to be bothered by an insane Indian who hated my kind of human beings. And that was in the smoking lounge.

I'd complain about UK soldiers walking around inside the terminal with huge machine guns/attack rifles, but that's standard now.

And of course the prices are absurd, but name me an airport where a small bar of chocolate costs less than 80 pence.

Everytime I pass through, I remind management that their internet facilities are far worse than those at the El Salvador airport were in 1998. Apparently the UK airport folks have not heard of the world wide web.

[game4shame]

samran

I wonder how many of the knockers here would qualify to emigrate to the UK if they weren't born with UK nationality in the first place. Probably very few.

I wonder if Wayne Rooney would be good at football if he didn't have any legs.

but, I can't be arsed getting into a UK migration argument because there's a fine line between sounding reasonable and sounding racist, which I'm definitely not.

[Nignoy]

.....On a thread about Heathrow Airport, Nignoy insisted on getting off topic and whinging about injustices of USA military. Off topic, deleted. ////PeaceBlondie///

[taxexile]

absolutely right , and those american bastards , damm their shiny teeth , elvis presley and chrome plated automobiles , saved europe from hitler too , why didnt they just mind their own business , like wot the british in india , africa and the middle east did.

and malaysia and burma.

[meadish_sweetball]

As an infrequent user of LHR, my whine (pardon me, I don't whinge; I'm American ) starts with the sorry excuse for internet machines. Warning: they only collect quid; that is their only purpose. Don't even touch the machines.

Last time I used LHR, we were arriving from Vienna and had to stop at Stansted for additional fuel after many delays in landing. Of course, we couldn't get off the plane.

You can't even lean sideways in those darn seats inside Heathrow. I finally found an area I could lean over and try to sleep, only to be bothered by an insane Indian who hated my kind of human beings. And that was in the smoking lounge.

I'd complain about UK soldiers walking around inside the terminal with huge machine guns/attack rifles, but that's standard now.

And of course the prices are absurd, but name me an airport where a small bar of chocolate costs less than 80 pence.

Everytime I pass through, I remind management that their internet facilities are far worse than those at the El Salvador airport were in 1998. Apparently the UK airport folks have not heard of the world wide web.

Agreed. The internet facilities are worse than appalling, the payment system antiquated, there is no machine to exchange notes (bills) to coins, and the shops around the internet area refuse to do so as well - you have to walk half way back through the duty free area to find somebody willing to do it - and once you get online, the system disallows any web based services except for one internet explorer window at a time, and the surfing is very slow at that.

Go Britain.

[The Real Mandrake]

The UK is not the only expensive country... but nowhere else do you pay so much for so little, if you get what I mean.

[lamonster]

I'd complain about UK soldiers walking around inside the terminal with huge machine guns/attack rifles, but that's standard now.

I must say that hearing an american complain about firearms is a bit of a surprise (and mp5s aren't exactly huge, an even the SA80 the army use isn't that big)?!

On another note - I did fly with BA / Qantas - and had the same problems as a lot of people.

And I am sure it must be in the Magna Carta - that we Brits can complain all we like - specially if it is about out own country - and if it isn't someone should get a crayon and make necesary amendments. I always though whinging and complaining was the national past time.

[technocracy]

Ahhh a whinge thread about the dump that is Heathrow T3 just what I get a few things off my chest!!!

Firstly Heathrow in general it surely must be the most uncommuter friendly airport in the world! All trains arriving in from Northern and Central England terminate in Euston - so what choice do you have to get to Heathrow? Well you can either get an hour and half bus from Watford which is I think hourly or the tube. The tube hmmm that bastion of London travel no problem you'd imagine yeah right! Firstly navigating Escalators with luggage and even better stairs!!! Oh then you have to change at Green Park and walk about 500 metres with a couple of flights of stairs for good measure to get on the Piccadilly service which will eventually take you to Heathrow. Where you then have to walk about 10 minutes to reach any terminal! If you want terminal 4 tough stop at Hatton Cross and wait for a bus! Oh but wait I forgot the Heathrow Express - but oh no unless I'm coming from the South West of England into Paddington I can't catch it with out a 30 minutes journey from Euston and then the small matter of paying £13.50 or £14.50 for a single(!) for the priviledge! Utter Utter Utter Toss!

So then you arrive at Heathrow and end up staying in a Hotel since there is no way on the planet you can possibly arrive at Heatrow at 10am for Check-in on a 12:30 flight. As for driving and paying to park the prices are just rediculous. Oh the joy.

So once you get in to T3 ready for your flight to check-in (with Thai) personally I've never had any problems here but also made easier having a Gold card check in is done at the Business/1st Class desk. Then you wander upstairs to the mayhem and chaos that is hand luggage security checks! I'm sure only 2 of the machines actually work since I've never seen more than 2 ever working!! The supposed Fast Track for Business Class is equally as bad! To make things worse you have the I refuse to take my coat of or empty my pockets before I reach the machine brigade . . . your standing in the queue for 10 <deleted> minutes yet you cannot be arsed to be ready!!! <deleted>!

Ok so you've got through finally you can now relax and await you journey .. .. well you'd think that if you've ever tried to relax in there good luck!!! Thankfully I can disappear off to the Lounge so I don't have to put up with the din and aimlessly wandering people. On the word of Lounges in Heathrow why in gods name do I have to pay to use the wireless internet?!?!? They have an internet connection surely they could stretch £70 and buy a wireless router? Instead of me having to shell out £10 for the priviledge - this is an evil I need to pay as I'm normally still working when I reach the airport - after all these are supposedly Business Lounges!! Bangkok Royal Orchid lounge is free for godsake!!

Then there is the gates . . to few seats to many people! Again thankfully I can avoid this with the card!

So the bliss of the journey is over and your on the flight back . . welcome to LHR the first thing you get stuck in is the queue of waiting aircrafts and end up circling over north/west london for 10-30 minutes. Ok at last were on the ground - now the 10-15 minute scramble to the Passport counters oh yeah no trolleys so you have to lug you hand luggage all the way. Now I don't mind carrying hand luggage for a few minutes walk etc. however when it's about a half mile hike it is carrying a laptop and photographic equipment becomes a little heavy*.

* note: I'm not one of these annoy ######s having a small suitcase which they can barely lift as hand luggage - these always make me laugh when they come on the plane late and complain they can't fit there case in the hold above them! Then again the tiny luggage bins upstairs at the front of a jumbo do take the piss the only you could fit in them is a 10" pizza. I believe hand luggage should be just that.

The hike finished you arrive into the doom and gloom of the Passport lounge . .. . I think enough has been said about this already - all 2 counters for the EU and UK passport holders and about 30 for everyone else. Previously the Thai flight arriving in LHR used to arrive just after a flight from Mumbai and the non-EU and UK desk used to be rammed! I used to sometime have to double check what airport I was in when I walked out to crowds of Indians waiting outside!!

So passing by your passport checked time to get the bags . . now I can't comment about waiting time here since I've always had priority luggage and is pretty much first of the rack everytime. But one time the delay of the luggage getting from the plane to the conveyor allowed for my wife to go for you chest X-ray and be re-checked at passport control before the belt had even moved!

Finally you can pass through the Green channel and enter to the dosshole of T3 arrivals - my god it's depressing!

Alternatively like I did last time you can get a connecting flight from LHR upto Manchester (if that's where your going obviously!) and then you can walk nearly a mile just to get the bus to take you over to T1 (BMI). Here you are then checked in but then pass through Passport control at Heathrow . . makes me wonder if Manchester's is trusted or not? Here they had 6 or 7 desks and 2 of them manned. Ok fair enough it wasn't busy however I decided I stand in the queue for Non-Eu and GB with my wife to save any hassle etc. At this point the EU and GB desk man disappeared for some reason so leaving one man. The EU and GB queue had been empty and 5 of us were queue patiently in the 'Other' queue. Once the man had finished doing something about 8 folks turned up in the EU and UK queue - he looked up and guess which queue he processed . . . yep the EU and UK. I couldn't frigging believe it he acted like our queue wasn't there!

After my blood boiling we finally got through to the BMI lounge - still no free wireless internet!

I really wish Thai would fly into Manchester - as for the comment about flying BA/Quantas - I really like being able walk after a flight BA/Quantas have the crampest longhaul cabins I've ever experienced.

Oh the joys of Heathrow!

[NordicMan]

Odd normally Euro/UK passport holder have max staff and foreigners get the 1/2 cue line.

these days it is an offence punishable by amputation of the left hand for an immigration official to keep a foreigner waiting at immigration at any point of entry into the uk .

Don't get me started on this one! .......and it does annoy me that if I had an EEA/EU passsport or whatever they are calling themselves this week (and we were married obviously) would get the family permit for free with little hassle at all.

I have an "EEA passport", and as far as I know, it's been called EEA since January 1, 1994... EU and EEA are two different things. What do you mean they change name often?

You're right, getting a visa for my Thai wife was a breeze - she got a 5 year visa with virtually no hassle at all.

However, you do forget one thing... her EEA family permit does not lead to a british citizenship in the end. That's a pretty big difference to the visa your wife has, don't you reckon? Which visa would your wife like to have?

[lamonster]

I have an "EEA passport", and as far as I know, it's been called EEA since January 1, 1994... EU and EEA are two different things. What do you mean they change name often?

You're right, getting a visa for my Thai wife was a breeze - she got a 5 year visa with virtually no hassle at all.

However, you do forget one thing... her EEA family permit does not lead to a british citizenship in the end. That's a pretty big difference to the visa your wife has, don't you reckon? Which visa would your wife like to have?

Well aren't we a picky little pixie I am not going to drawn into the whole European naming thing - ok it doesn't change names each week but end of the day that wasn't really my gripe- the whole EU thing gets on my tits regardless.

My point regarding family permits is this - you can get them a lot easier than settlement visas, they don't cost anything (or very little), and whether my Mrs wants to get British citizenship or not the point either.

It's not like the EU passport holders wife has to have a Visa to settle in another country in the EU first before applying - any Tom, Dick or Harry that marries an EU passport holder (Except UK passport holders themselves) and then decides to move to UK to live gets into UK with little of no questions asked. E.g. lets say a German goes to Thailand marries a nice girl - they will probably get a family permit with very little effort on their part. I could put up with it if the German chap had to get her a visa to settle in Germany first then can apply for something to come to the UK – I accept that this would probably fall foul of some sort of minimum amount of time living in Germany to get the settlement Visa). I am not saying that any of this is practical or enforceable in EU law, but would make me feel better knowing that all these people getting family permits are having to put the same time, money and effort I am into getting my loved one the right to come and stay with me.

Whereas, if you are born, bred and lived in the UK all your life - and happen to want to marry someone from say ooh er Thailand - you have to jump through hoops, prove this that and the other, pay best part of 300 quid to apply and put up with ECOs attitude. And in my case get turned down for ludicrous reasons (which amounted to harassment in my case - direct from a lawyer in London I went to see).

Am I totally mad to want my country to put me before others, just like in Thailand?

And then – bringing this back on topic – when you come back to the UK – you end up in huge line of people to get through immigration at Heathrow, and there's a nice short line at the non EU desks, talk about rubbing salt into the wound.

[the scouser]

However, you do forget one thing... her EEA family permit does not lead to a british citizenship in the end.

Oh yes it does.......

Once your wife has been in the UK for 4 years, she can apply to the Home Office free of charge for indefinite leave. Once she has then held indefinite leave for 1 year she can seek to be naturalised as a British citizen.

Scouse.

[lamonster]

However, you do forget one thing... her EEA family permit does not lead to a british citizenship in the end.

Oh yes it does.......

Once your wife has been in the UK for 4 years, she can apply to the Home Office free of charge for indefinite leave. Once she has then held indefinite leave for 1 year she can seek to be naturalised as a British citizen.

Scouse.

OK - Scouse - you given me more to be upset about.

So the question is - how do I go about swapping my British passport for one from another EEA country? If I go to Spain ot France - can I do swappsies with manuel or pierre?

OR do you think my Mrs would get say a Polish citizenship if I donated to relevant Ministry

Back to being serious -

So what we are basically saying is I would have been better off having a parent from another EEA country and all my visa problems would would go away. Just how did the UK get into the situation where someone not even born here / has british passport gets a better deal than the poor sod that was born and bred here?

Appears the UK has the opposite system to Thailand - next someone will be telling me I pay more at say Tower of London / Alton Towers etc than the tourists do unless I put on an accent when paying for the ticket in which case I get the euro-speaker rates.

[GU22]

So what we are basically saying is I would have been better off having a parent from another EEA country and all my visa problems would would go away. Just how did the UK get into the situation where someone not even born here / has british passport* gets a better deal than the poor sod that was born and bred here?

If you were, for example, French and wanted to live in France with your Thai wife then you would have to go through a similar visa application procedure as a British citizen applying to the UK in order to do so. But being British you can live in France and get an EEA family permit for your wife.

A stupid state of affairs? Yes, as is much to do with the EU!

* BTW, The spouse or civil partner of a British citizen who has been resident in the UK for 3 years and has ILR or similar can apply for British citizenship. For all others, including the spouse or civil partner of an EEA national, it's 5 years.

[the scouser]

Lamonster,

It is possible as a Brit to make yourself a "European national" and therefore benefit from the free family permit for your wife. However, it can be a lot of hassle. Basically, you would need to go and live/work in another EU country for 3-6 months. Your wife would be able to join you free of charge on that country's equivalent of a family permit and, once established in the other EEA country, your wife could then apply for a family permit to come to the UK.

Simple but a lot of messing around.

Scouse.

[udon]

absolutely right , and those american bastards , damm their shiny teeth , elvis presley and chrome plated automobiles , saved europe from hitler too , why didnt they just mind their own business , like wot the british in india , africa and the middle east did.

and malaysia and burma.

:D

Tax: You forgot "white-walled tyres":

[Totster]

I'd complain about UK soldiers walking around inside the terminal with huge machine guns/attack rifles, but that's standard now.

It seems that we have to have armed soldiers in our airports now as a direct result of American soldiers stomping around the world bullying everyone their moronic goverment doesn't agree with.

My biggest gripe with Heathrow (in particular T3) is the arrivals hall... last time I came through there it was so busy, one big mess of people with too many bags, people just standing around, not easy to get out of the throng.. and no one keeping people moving and ensuring safety exits were clear !

totster

[samran]

Well,

I'll be going through LHR this sat morning. I'll obviously be going through the 'others' queue, and with a bit of luck, I'll be let in and report back.

I'll be sure to note for your benefit if I get gold class service while the Eurotrash are slumming it in long lines to the left of me. No doubt I will be met by a smiling UK immigration officer offering to wipe my @rse for me after he/she stamps my passport.

I'll be sure to note how many somali families I see waiting for refugee status(being served tea and scones) by civil servants falling over themselves to offer them benefits and a council flats with a view of the Thames.

And I'll note how many indians I see in the arrivals hall too.

[SamuiRes]

Have to say that when I took my Thai wife to the UK two years ago through Heathrow we had no problems. There seemed to be a lengthy queue for non Brits and I stayed with her in that queue. It did however move pretty quickly and when we reached the Immigration Officer he was an extremely charming Asian who asked the usual questions, why are you here, how long etc. always with a smile on his face and welcomed my wife to the UK. had a quick look at my Passport and wished us a pleasant stay. Could not have been better.

This year we are going through Birmingham - will see what that is like!

[lamonster]

Scouse,

I must say I find it completely bonkers that by going to live in another EU country then applying for family permit, I can effectively get round the UK Visa system. Short of getting the goods on the ECM seems like a fairly simple option - as it will have taken a year from application to find out 100% that we do/don't get a visa (thats including the time waiting for an appeal) which I can't complain about as I was told it was more like a year to wait for an appeal, so I must say things must be getting better - Big Gold star for the AIT/BKK Embassy for getting all the paperwork through so quickly. I must be coming down with something - me praising the authorities - and this being a moan thread to.

Lets see how the appeal goes in July - and maybe I can think about working in the Netherlands (appears to be a shortage for people in my line of work there). What about Switzerland - would that count as I know some people who were offered work out there last year (for quite nice money to boot)

-

And as far as there being armed police / soldiers in the airport I always thought there were armed officers in the airports going back years? I am sure when I was going on the family holidays to spain etc that there were guys and gals with guns roaming the airport?

[Old Croc]

My Heathrow whinge has nothing to do with the terminals, but the way my flight was treated by traffic control. I was departing on a BA flight for Greece. Everything was normal on embarcation,

pax aboard on time, pushed away ok and joined the line up of planes trundelling towards the runway.

The plane suddenly did a right turn and parked in a side street. The captain announced we had missed our spot for take off and would have to wait for another space to become available.

We sat there for an F..ing hour watching planes roll past before we moved again!

We were in the queue and half way there, what was the point of pulling us over?

[taxexile]

what was the point of pulling us over?

pilot wasnt wearing his seat belt.

[Rinrada]

Only slight hiccup that I have ever had was on one occasion while trying to land at Heathrow (B.A.)from Bangkok and the I.R.A were chucking mortor bombs onto the main runway....(during the TIT Troubles )

It was one of my usual quiet courier trips and I was carrying the "Speedbird 1" manifest but at the very last minute on that Sunday morning we quickly banked round and headed over to Stanstead.

...Pilot even told us what was happening.

The trouble for me was that there are no BA personnel based at Stanstead and I wanted to get rid of the paperwork which included for the usual TNT-DHL stuff plus some bullion....

[Nignoy]

Only slight hiccup that I have ever had was on one occasion while trying to land at Heathrow (B.A.)from Bangkok and the I.R.A were chucking mortor bombs onto the main runway....(during the TIT Troubles )

It was one of my usual quiet courier trips and I was carrying the "Speedbird 1" manifest but at the very last minute on that Sunday morning we quickly banked round and headed over to Stanstead.

...Pilot even told us what was happening.

The trouble for me was that there are no BA personnel based at Stanstead and I wanted to get rid of the paperwork which included for the usual TNT-DHL stuff plus some bullion....

Our paths must definitely have crossed !! up until 1/2/1996 no bullion left heathrow without my signature Nignoy

[bkk_mike]

My gripe with Heathrow is the travelators...

I think it's 2001 that I last went from the Underground (or Heathrow Express) to the plane and all of the travelators in both directions were in working order.

How long does it take to fix a travelator? Some were out of action for months. (and they stopped, and in some cases removed the escalators coming from the planes on the main floor before they opened the upstairs walkway - so that for a good 6 months, everyone had a LONG walk, although I do remember there were luggage trolleys available, most of the time).

[Rinrada]

Only slight hiccup that I have ever had was on one occasion while trying to land at Heathrow (B.A.)from Bangkok and the I.R.A were chucking mortor bombs onto the main runway....(during the TIT Troubles )

It was one of my usual quiet courier trips and I was carrying the "Speedbird 1" manifest but at the very last minute on that Sunday morning we quickly banked round and headed over to Stanstead.

...Pilot even told us what was happening.

The trouble for me was that there are no BA personnel based at Stanstead and I wanted to get rid of the paperwork which included for the usual TNT-DHL stuff plus some bullion....

Our paths must definitely have crossed !! up until 1/2/1996 no bullion left heathrow without my signature Nignoy

Could have had...I however was coming the other way Bangers > London

Stashed the stuff in a warehouse over near................................

[Jersey_UK]

Lamonster,

It is possible as a Brit to make yourself a "European national" and therefore benefit from the free family permit for your wife. However, it can be a lot of hassle. Basically, you would need to go and live/work in another EU country for 3-6 months. Your wife would be able to join you free of charge on that country's equivalent of a family permit and, once established in the other EEA country, your wife could then apply for a family permit to come to the UK.

Simple but a lot of messing around.

Scouse.

Seems rather simple (if long winded!).......must be a catch!

Is that Work AND Live, or just live? and then how long would we have to stay in the EU country to "establish" ourselves before getting a permit to come into the UK? (I know we would then also have the Jersey end to sort out, but basically if folk qualify to be in the UK, Jersey will not (cannot?) bar them)

(of course the slight fly in my omtment is that I do not have the RIGHT to work and live in the EU )

[the scouser]

As you allude, Jersey isn't even in the EU.....

Anyway, I'm just home from work and I'm dog tired, looking forward to a few recuperative Stellas tonight, so I'm going to take the lazy option and say "RTFM" (para 21.4.8)

Scouse.

[Jersey_UK]

As you allude, Jersey isn't even in the EU.....

Anyway, I'm just home from work and I'm dog tired, looking forward to a few recuperative Stellas tonight, so I'm going to take the lazy option and say "RTFM" (para 21.4.8)

Scouse.

No worries Scouse, really just an idle query (BTW we are back on track, as far as we will ever be!, following my recent trip down to the LOS). Now all I have to do is get my new business up and running (and profitable!), perhaps not the best time to have started a new venture, especially given the proof of income requirements and the time involved - but life does have a habit of moving on without revolving around VISA requirements...............