Cop thiefs on narawat bridge!

[FolkGuitar]

Hello, FolkGuitar.

What law is it that says the passport must be on your person?

The Thai law.

OK, that's being factious, I know, but the fact is, I have no idea where one would look to find the specific paragraph in Thai law books to quote you the number, any easier than you could show me the number for the French law requiring a baguette to weigh a specific amount or the law in Pennsylvania that requires all men over the age of 16 to carry a rifle to church on Sundays. (Yes, that's still on the books from the days of the Indian Wars.)

Instead, let me suggest that you do a Google search, using as the search string 'Thai law carry passport' and see the hundreds of pages that inform tourists of the 'fact'. Some of these are from various Embassies and Consulates, others are from law offices, and others, perhaps less reliable, from travel agents. None of these state the book or paragraph number of the regulation. Personally, I accept the preponderance of anecdotal remarks as strong evidence suggesting it's valid. We've also heard from some folks here in other threads who were taken to the cop shop because they couldn't produce their passports or copies there of when requested by the police, and had to have wives/girlfriends/ roommates bring their passports down before they would be released.

The length of your answer is an answer in itself.

What it shows is that I'm not a lawyer. Form any other conclusion it at your own risk.

Edited December 15, 2013 by FolkGuitar

[FolkGuitar]

Exactly. As I said, I always carry my passport. However, and also as I said, I have never seen any links to a law. Most of the pages that come up in an internet search are relevant to tourists, who normally would not have a local form of ID, i.e., a Thai driving license. As for the Thal DL having a passport number on the back: that does not prove anr passport relevant info other than its number, which could have changed since issuance of the DL.

The page that seems to have interested the police when they asked to see my passport was the entry franking. (I don't know if I'm giving that the correct name. It's the stamp that says 'good until....' )

[meechai]

Instead, let me suggest that you do a Google search, using as the search string 'Thai law carry passport' and see the hundreds of pages that inform tourists of the 'fact'.

That has always been my understanding "Tourists" should/need to carry their passport

Long stay Non Imm etc. with a valid Thai ID which states the PP# I think are fine

At least that is what a bank,hospital & hotel have accepted in lieu of a PP from me.

Would seem logical as Thailand is the one that verified the Passport when they Issued the

licenses with the PP info on them.

Could be another good reason to have a Thai license

[meechai]

The page that seems to have interested the police when they asked to see my passport was the entry franking. (I don't know if I'm giving that the correct name. It's the stamp that says 'good until....' )

Could be because they dont understand the visa extension stamp

Which states good until dates.

Edited December 15, 2013 by meechai

[onthedarkside]

Inflammatory post removed

[CMHomeboy78]

Hello, FolkGuitar.

What law is it that says the passport must be on your person?

The passport issue is a vexed question. It has never been clarified whether or not it is a law on the books.

Fifteen, or so, years ago there was a crusading zealot named Purachai - and he was a "pure-boy" indeed, to use an English-Thai amalgam. A high-ranking flatfoot whose obsession was "social-ills". As head of the CSI [or some agency, I can't remember which] he had a bully pulpit to preach his faith.

Farangs got most of his attention. In a two-page article in the leading English language newspaper he stated unequivocally that foreigners must carry their passports at all times, and that photocopies were not an acceptable substitute because they were too easy to alter.

In the wake of this pronouncement from on high, a number of foreign embassies issued warnings to their nationals that it was the law of the land.

But is it? Has anyone actually seen it? I don't think so.

Ambiguity would make it so much easier to apply the "law" and collect "fines" on a selective basis.

This gauleiter mentality never dies, it just changes uniforms from time to time.

[harrry]

Personally I do not care if there is a law that says you must carry a passport or not. What is relevent is that the police have the duty to check your immigration status and if in doubt transfer you to the immigration police.

There are definitely laws which say you have the onus of proving that with your passport and visas and in their absense are considered to be an ilegal immigrant.

Rather nicely the police do not completely act on this. They do not immediately transfer you to immigration for immediate transfer to the IDC until you can appear in court to prove your status. They do give time for someone to bring the passport to you while holding you in the police station. If this is within an hour or so you probably will not see a holding cell, if there is no one to help you get it you may.

[bangkok blue]

Personally I do not care if there is a law that says you must carry a passport or not. What is relevent is that the police have the duty to check your immigration status and if in doubt transfer you to the immigration police.

There are definitely laws which say you have the onus of proving that with your passport and visas and in their absense are considered to be an ilegal immigrant.

Rather nicely the police do not completely act on this. They do not immediately transfer you to immigration for immediate transfer to the IDC until you can appear in court to prove your status. They do give time for someone to bring the passport to you while holding you in the police station. If this is within an hour or so you probably will not see a holding cell, if there is no one to help you get it you may.

I know several friends who've been asked for passport, when they say it's at home police wave them on. Never heard of anyone spending a night or any time down the station due to bring unable to provide their passport upon demand. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it has happened in order to extract some tea money when it gets closer to the BIB's monthly karaoke night! Seems no one is 100% sure if its the law to carry your passport. No definite law in writing, other than a newspaper article from some top brass and a warning by embassies. That cop who asked for 1000bht would have made a tidy profit, if it isn't the law, as he would have kept the lot and not passed any onto the "fines" dept!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Loaded]

Thais and foreigners need to carry ID with them. Thais are issued an ID card and foreigners are expected to carry their passport unless they have other official Thai ID such as a driver's license. However, the reality is that the police are really really lax about enforcing this, and most other, laws. If caught breaking the law, they'll often have the attitude of mai pen rai unless the foreigner acts like an arse.

[sharktooth]

I got my international license on line with this mob... http://phuketdir.com/intlicense/

Been stopped dozens of times and after showing this I get waved on...

[northernjohn]

Hello, FolkGuitar.

What law is it that says the passport must be on your person?

The Thai law.

OK, that's being factious, I know, but the fact is, I have no idea where one would look to find the specific paragraph in Thai law books to quote you the number, any easier than you could show me the number for the French law requiring a baguette to weigh a specific amount or the law in Pennsylvania that requires all men over the age of 16 to carry a rifle to church on Sundays. (Yes, that's still on the books from the days of the Indian Wars.)

Instead, let me suggest that you do a Google search, using as the search string 'Thai law carry passport' and see the hundreds of pages that inform tourists of the 'fact'. Some of these are from various Embassies and Consulates, others are from law offices, and others, perhaps less reliable, from travel agents. None of these state the book or paragraph number of the regulation. Personally, I accept the preponderance of anecdotal remarks as strong evidence suggesting it's valid. We've also heard from some folks here in other threads who were taken to the cop shop because they couldn't produce their passports or copies there of when requested by the police, and had to have wives/girlfriends/ roommates bring their passports down before they would be released.

The length of your answer is an answer in itself.

What it shows is that I'm not a lawyer. Form any other conclusion it at your own risk.

Great response to a silly asssumption on a great post. On a silly thread.

[SuperBie]

Welcome to Thailand

Every Thai people know that we can avoid inconveneince from police by put 200baht to the pocket

but I recmmend to make the licence right. life become better in CM

[FolkGuitar]

Great response to a silly assumption on a great post. On a silly thread.

Thank you. I thought so myself!

And for teenager who said;

"I know several friends who've been asked for passport, when they say it's at home police wave them on. Never heard of anyone spending a night or any time down the station due to bring unable to provide their passport upon demand. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it has happened in order to extract some tea money when it gets closer to the BIB's monthly karaoke night!" ....

Here is a photograph that I took (with permission) a few years ago behind the Immigration office... I doubt all these folks together could come up with enough tea money to buy a cup of tea, so perhaps there was another reason for throwing them into a detention cell. I would also doubt any of them had their passports with them... And before the kid says 'hey, they are just illegal Burmese,' I'll ask how does the cop knows he's not an illegal Farang?

For the inconvenience of carrying a piece of copy paper folded up in a corner of our wallets, we get to be sure to avoid this. I can live with that sort of inconvenience...

[taotoo]

What it shows is that I'm not a lawyer. Form any other conclusion it at your own risk.

Great response to a silly asssumption on a great post. On a silly thread.

A 'great post' would be to answer the question and quote the relevant law.

[hml367]

deleted

Edited December 15, 2013 by hml367

[FolkGuitar]

What it shows is that I'm not a lawyer. Form any other conclusion it at your own risk.

Great response to a silly asssumption on a great post. On a silly thread.

A 'great post' would be to answer the question and quote the relevant law.

Perhaps. Taotoo, you can quote the relevant law, giving section number, paragraph number, and line numbers etc., of course (wouldn't be a valid cite without those pesky numbers, would it,) for the Thai law that deals with a farang who wants an exemption for doing silversmithing work here in the Kingdom. It's doubtful anyone but a lawyer would even know where to find the book it's written in, much less which section or paragraph, and even they would have to spend some time looking it up. It's against Thai law. We do know that as a fact. But finding the specific cite requires some legal knowledge.

My suggestion to you would be; don't carry your passport. Eventually you'll be in a situation where you may be asked for it, and detained for not having it. Then you can ask your LAWYER to quote you the relevant law. I doubt he'll charge you very much for his time looking it up.

[hml367]

As I have repeatedly said, I, personally, always have my passport with me. However, I do not know that it is Thai law that a person must have their passport on their person at all times. I do believe that a person must have some type of identification and a foreigner must be able to produce, within a reasonable amount of time, documents that show the foreigner is in the country legally.

A police person can take you in to custody without you being charged with a crime.... I think you only have to be suspected of the crime. Then there is a certain amount of time which you could be held in custody before a warrant for arrest is issued.

The Immigration Act indicates what a foreigner must have to be in the country legally. The Criminal Procedure Code gives the procedures which should be followed in investigation.

I think it is a good idea to have the passport on your person at all times, yet I still have doubts that it is Thai law.

Both the Immigration Act and the Criminal Procedure Code are available for download on the internet in translated to English form. Of course the Thai versions take precedent if there are any mistakes in interpretation.

[FolkGuitar]

As I have repeatedly said, I, personally, always have my passport with me.........

Law or not, this really does stave off any possible problems. For something that requires so little effort, it's certainly worth it to me as well.

[meechai]

As I have repeatedly said, I, personally, always have my passport with me.........

Law or not, this really does stave off any possible problems. For something that requires so little effort, it's certainly worth it to me as well.

Understood but, That is risk aversion while incurring the risk of loss or damage to your passport.

I believe for most like myself who do not carry their passport it is this risk/reward ratio

we work on.

The risk of being asked for my passport while I have a Valid Thai ID that has my passport#

on it has been 0% over the course of the years I have been here

( But again I have a valid Thai ID with my passport# on it )

If I had carried my passport for a few years here I imagine it would be hard to achieve 0% loss or damage.

So getting back to the many requests for a valid citing of the law or

at least a link to a valid law enforcement bulletin,,,personally I will continue

to carry my Thai ID with my passport number noted on it. Leaving my passport safe & secure at the address

which is also listed on my Thai ID

At least until I see or am told of an actual law aimed at folks like myself

not tourists.

But of course each person must weigh their own risk/reward tolerance

Edited December 15, 2013 by meechai

[Sparkles]

I'm more concerned about being run down by a Chinese tourist on a push bike than I am not carrying my passport,lets get real if you have a Thai driving licence ie ID and a photo copy of your passport in your wallet do you really think you are going to be locked up,fined or deported.

[taotoo]

Perhaps. Taotoo, you can quote the relevant law, giving section number, paragraph number, and line numbers etc., of course (wouldn't be a valid cite without those pesky numbers, would it,) for the Thai law that deals with a farang who wants an exemption for doing silversmithing work here in the Kingdom.

No I can't, because I don't even know if there IS a law.

...It's against Thai law. We do know that as a fact....

I'd love to know HOW you know it to be a fact...

My suggestion to you would be; don't carry your passport. Eventually you'll be in a situation where you may be asked for it, and detained for not having it. Then you can ask your LAWYER to quote you the relevant law. I doubt he'll charge you very much for his time looking it up.

I HAVE been asked for my passport. I showed my driving licence instead (which has my passport number on it). The policeman was very happy with that. If he wanted to play games and ask for 500 baht, I would have paid it. Better than carrying a passport around. I don't believe I will ever be detained for not carrying my passport unless it is in conjunction with a serious offence, and I'm never going to commit such an offence.

But that's irrelevant anyway. The question was "which law?". So far it hasn't been answered.

[naboo]

In Thailand, there is a law that states everyone (above the age of 7, previously 15) must carry ID at all times. If a police office stops you and requests identification, if you cannot provide it, you can be arrested until you can provide identification.

For Thais, this is their national ID Card, though a Driving licence is usually acceptable as an alternative, being a government issued card. For Thais, if they don't carry their ID card but have a driving licence, the police officer would still be within rights to detain them until ID card was presented.

For foreigners, the default document to fall back on for ID is your passport. However, usually the Thai government issued driving licence will suffice. If, however, a police officer decides to, he/she may detain you up the time you can provide your passport so that they can verify your immigration status.

For this reason, I carry my Thai driving licences with me at all times, always accepted for ID, even withdrawing 180,000B over the counter at Bangkok Bank from a foreign bank account. I also ensure that my passport is always stored in an nearby location, my home safe when I am staying at home, and my hotel room safe when I am in Bangkok/elsewhere.

Which brings us back to the OP, just get a Thai driving licence (I am aware he has, but the message is the same for all here on extensions of stay). Its not hard, and its one less thing to worry about.

[FolkGuitar]

As I have repeatedly said, I, personally, always have my passport with me.........

Law or not, this really does stave off any possible problems. For something that requires so little effort, it's certainly worth it to me as well.

Understood but, That is risk aversion while incurring the risk of loss or damage to your passport.

I believe for most like myself who do not carry their passport it is this risk/reward ratio

we work on.

"But?" Why 'but?' No one is arguing with you. I'm in agreement with you.

As I've said before, but most seem not to bother to read, I do NOT carry my passport. I carry two small slips of paper folded up in a corner of my wallet. They are photo copies of my passport front page and latest entry stamp. No risk. To date, that has satisfied any policeman that asked for my passport. Like yourself, I do not chose to risk carrying my passport on a daily basis, especially when the police seem satisfied to accept a photo copy.

[FolkGuitar]

Perhaps. Taotoo, you can quote the relevant law, giving section number, paragraph number, and line numbers etc., of course (wouldn't be a valid cite without those pesky numbers, would it,) for the Thai law that deals with a farang who wants an exemption for doing silversmithing work here in the Kingdom.

No I can't, because I don't even know if there IS a law.

...It's against Thai law. We do know that as a fact....

I'd love to know HOW you know it to be a fact...

My suggestion to you would be; don't carry your passport. Eventually you'll be in a situation where you may be asked for it, and detained for not having it. Then you can ask your LAWYER to quote you the relevant law. I doubt he'll charge you very much for his time looking it up.

............................But that's irrelevant anyway. The question was "which law?". So far it hasn't been answered.

Would you come to Thai Visa to ask which size suture thread should be used to tie off the Posterior Cerebella Artery of the brain during surgery, or would you ask a doctor?

Yet you want to know the specifics of a law, and ask here?

That's absurd. Go ask a lawyer. I'm sure you will then get your question answered with authoritative citation, rather than anecdotal comments that you find in an internet forum.

Edited December 15, 2013 by FolkGuitar

[northernjohn]

Perhaps. Taotoo, you can quote the relevant law, giving section number, paragraph number, and line numbers etc., of course (wouldn't be a valid cite without those pesky numbers, would it,) for the Thai law that deals with a farang who wants an exemption for doing silversmithing work here in the Kingdom.

No I can't, because I don't even know if there IS a law.

I'd love to know HOW you know it to be a fact...

My suggestion to you would be; don't carry your passport. Eventually you'll be in a situation where you may be asked for it, and detained for not having it. Then you can ask your LAWYER to quote you the relevant law. I doubt he'll charge you very much for his time looking it up.

............................But that's irrelevant anyway. The question was "which law?". So far it hasn't been answered.

Would you come to Thai Visa to ask which size suture thread should be used to tie off the Posterior Cerebella Artery of the brain during surgery, or would you ask a doctor?

Yet you want to know the specifics of a law, and ask here?

That's absurd. Go ask a lawyer. I'm sure you will then get your question answered with authoritative citation, rather than anecdotal comments that you find in an internet forum.

this loser thread is getting down right amusing won't be long and some one will be seriously asking how long is a piece of string.

[harrry]

I think many of the posters on this thread are the same little boys who kept asking there parents why do they have to go to bed and refused to budge every night.

Well saying."don;t have to" and "Can't make me!" does not work with Thai cops unless you have heaps and heaps of money.

Edited December 15, 2013 by harrry

[FolkGuitar]

this loser thread is getting down right amusing won't be long and some one will be seriously asking how long is a piece of string.

I could tell them, but they'd probably demand incontrovertible proof. I could even give them that, but then I'd have to shoot them...

Mods... would you please come and put this thread out of its misery?

Edited December 15, 2013 by FolkGuitar

[FolkGuitar]

Perhaps. Taotoo, you can quote the relevant law, giving section number, paragraph number, and line numbers etc., of course (wouldn't be a valid cite without those pesky numbers, would it,) for the Thai law that deals with a farang who wants an exemption for doing silversmithing work here in the Kingdom.

No I can't, because I don't even know if there IS a law.

...It's against Thai law. We do know that as a fact....

I'd love to know HOW you know it to be a fact...

Well... it wasn't really all that difficult. I asked a lawyer.

I was considering opening a jewelery business here some years ago and needed facts.

Now, I realize that this is something one should never think to do when requiring specific information in a very specialize subject, but I felt that in this case it would be more effective and certainly stood a better chance of accuracy than asking in Thai Visa. Your mileage might vary.

Edited December 15, 2013 by FolkGuitar

[taotoo]

Would you come to Thai Visa to ask which size suture thread should be used to tie off the Posterior Cerebella Artery of the brain during surgery, or would you ask a doctor?

Yet you want to know the specifics of a law, and ask here?

That's absurd. Go ask a lawyer. I'm sure you will then get your question answered with authoritative citation, rather than anecdotal comments that you find in an internet forum.

You're still evading the question. Good that you've admitted your comments are anecdotal though.

[taotoo]

... but I felt that in this case it would be more effective and certainly stood a better chance of accuracy than asking in Thai Visa. Your mileage might vary.

Your own posts lend weight to this theory.