Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes

[wigantojapan]

^^ You'll note that every answer I give in this regard uses the phrase "Scottish resident." To once again clarify, I am referring to residents of Scotland, as I mentioned earlier, that includes English-born residents of Scotland. Even people from Sussex.

We agree on one thing, then.

As I have said all along, entitlement is based upon residency, not citizenship.

Can you know convince you mate from Wigan of that?

incorrect you have clearly on a number of occasions used the word citizen rather than residents...but again and you have failed to answer the initial question,,because again you have no understanding of the NHS and what its arrangements are ,,like you said in one of your primary comments on the NHS it is a complicated subject in reply to Ruam Reddy,,,,seems too complicated for yourself so you diverged onto non residents and pensions,,,,,,nothing to do in the slightest with the original question...Again the original content HAS BEEN BANNED IN CINEMA BECAUSE OF ITS INACCURATE REPORTING THAT tell you something unless you want to say now that the GREAT ORMOND is part of the yes campaign

[jpinx]

Scottish residents do not get NHS treatment in the UK because Scotland has a reciprocal arrangement with the UK; they get free treatment because Scotland is part of the UK!

For that same reason residents of England Wales and Northern Ireland get free NHS treatment in Scotland.

If Scotland leaves the UK, then the situation will change.

The reciprocal arrangement with other EU countries jpinx mentions does not cover NHS treatment if the purpose of coming to the UK was to receive that treatment, and to get any treatment over and above initial emergency care an EHIC card is required.

Wigantogoogle.

As said, entitlement to NHS care in the UK is based on residency, not citizenship. If you don't believe me, look it up. Your vast experience with Google will help you find it.

And if you do want to insult me by constant references to my county of residence, please get it right. You'll find it on my profile page.

Normally you are very good with facts -- but this time you are fundamentally flawed. There *IS* a contract between the various health boards in Scotland with each other and with the Boards in England, Wales and N.Ireland.

It almost sounds like to want the rUK to keep the contributions the Scots have made since 1947 and not give anything back for it There is a contract between contributors and government -- you need to look that one up too

[7by7]

Patsszero,

But his, jpinx, answer was incorrect.

A British resident cannot travel to Germany to receive free medical treatment under the German healthcare system.

A German resident cannot travel to the UK to receive free treatment under the NHS.

Any resident of an EU country needs to obtain an EHIC card to receive free, or reduced cost, medical treatment in another EU state; and these do not cover trips specifically to receive treatment.

Don't believe me?

Google is your friend; Wiganetc. certainly relies on it.

As for taxes and NICs paid in the past to the UK government covering benefits in a future independent Scotland; those contributions covered the costs of running the Scottish NHS while Scotland was part of the UK. If Scotland does become independent then Scottish residents will no longer pay their taxes and NICs to the UK government. Why should the UK taxpayer continue to fund medical treatment for residents of an independent country?

I can see no reason, and no one here has yet provided one.

Edited to show which post I am replying to.

Edited June 7, 2014 by 7by7

[wigantojapan]

the suusex man using residents and citizens in the same sentence

That is the situation now; why should residents of an independent Scotland, who will have chosen to leave the UK, be treated any differently to British citizens who have chosen to leave the UK and live abroad?

[jpinx]

7by7 you are confusing healthcare in the "normal" sense, and health treatments which are non-essential. I think you really need to read the fine print of the reciprocal agreements between the countries to understand it better.

Basically if you are a resident and on a doctors list in Sussex and you travel to France, etc - if you fall sick or have an accident you will get the basic care needed and the Health board in Sussex will get the bill.

Edited June 7, 2014 by jpinx

[jpinx]

Patsszero,

But his, jpinx, answer was incorrect.

A British resident cannot travel to Germany to receive free medical treatment under the German healthcare system.

A German resident cannot travel to the UK to receive free treatment under the NHS.

Any resident of an EU country needs to obtain an EHIC card to receive free, or reduced cost, medical treatment in another EU state; and these do not cover trips specifically to receive treatment.

******

EXACTLY -- you get that card because of the reciprocal agreements between the countries to provide basic healthcare for each others residents (not citizens) Iseem to recall a similar "card" for Australia, USA and other countries. The card is issued by UK authorities and entitles the bearer to basic healthcare in those countiers.

Youanswered your own questio

++++++

Don't believe me?

Google is your friend; Wiganetc. certainly relies on it.

As for taxes and NICs paid in the past to the UK government covering benefits in a future independent Scotland; those contributions covered the costs of running the Scottish NHS while Scotland was part of the UK. If Scotland does become independent then Scottish residents will no longer pay their taxes and NICs to the UK government. Why should the UK taxpayer continue to fund medical treatment for residents of an independent country?

I can see no reason, and no one here has yet provided one.

**********

The reason is simple -- the contract is between the contributor and the UK government. For healthcare it is not projected into the future -- for pensions it is.

+++++++++++++

Edited June 7, 2014 by jpinx

[transam]

OK, that stuff is getting a bit long in the tooth now............

I have read that the Islands where the oil is have their own governing agenda thoughts, as they think the present Scots gov put them on the back burner........

What do you Independence guys think about that. Please don't post you will fix up a McD's on their Islands, or free Boots vouchers.............

[Pattszero]

Patsszero,

But his, jpinx, answer was incorrect.

A British resident cannot travel to Germany to receive free medical treatment under the German healthcare system.

A German resident cannot travel to the UK to receive free treatment under the NHS.

Any resident of an EU country needs to obtain an EHIC card to receive free, or reduced cost, medical treatment in another EU state; and these do not cover trips specifically to receive treatment.

Don't believe me?

Google is your friend; Wiganetc. certainly relies on it.

As for taxes and NICs paid in the past to the UK government covering benefits in a future independent Scotland; those contributions covered the costs of running the Scottish NHS while Scotland was part of the UK. If Scotland does become independent then Scottish residents will no longer pay their taxes and NICs to the UK government. Why should the UK taxpayer continue to fund medical treatment for residents of an independent country?

I can see no reason, and no one here has yet provided one.

Edited to show which post I am replying to.

You are wrong. I am now starting to understand your mentality in this matter. Let me address the point for the last time as I feel I'm talking to a brick wall.

The UK government contracted with each citizen that they would receive a full state pension in return for thirty years of NIC.

Full stop.

The fact that the UK government has paid the pension obligation from the current year tax take is nothing to do with the individual that has paid their NIC.

Full stop.

The UK government has a legal obligation to fund Scottish resident pensioners.

Full stop.

This obligation will not end with a yes vote.

Full stop.

Not a singular UK government minister has indicated that it would.

Full stop.

That's because they know they would lose any legal challenge.

Full stop.

.......................................................................................................................................

[7by7]

Quotes of previous posts removed to comply with forum software.

.....you (7by7) have clearly on a number of occasions used the word citizen rather than residents...

I have used the word 'citizen' when referring to the entitlement, or rather lack of it, to NHS treatment for British citizens who are resident outside the UK.

If you are going to quote what I have said, at least get it right!

but again and you have failed to answer the initial question,,because again you have no understanding of the NHS and what its arrangements are ,,

What question?

There is only one unanswered question here.

I have repeatedly asked why residents of an independent Scotland should be treated any differently to all other non UK residents; you have yet to answer.

I have supplied a link to an independent, authoritative organisation, the CAB, which explains in great detail what entitlements Non UK residents have; you dismissed it (even though I doubt that you actually read it).

like you said in one of your primary comments on the NHS it is a complicated subject in reply to Ruam Reddy,,,,seems too complicated for yourself so you diverged onto non residents and pensions,,,,,,nothing to do in the slightest with the original question...

It was Pattszero who diverged into pensions, not I.

Do try and keep up with who said what.

I repeat for the benefit of the slow; entitlement to NHS treatment in the UK is based upon residency. Not on citizenship. Not on NICs.

Again the original content HAS BEEN BANNED IN CINEMA BECAUSE OF ITS INACCURATE REPORTING THAT tell you something unless you want to say now that the GREAT ORMOND is part of the yes campaign

Not banned; withdrawn. Mainly to avoid protests from the lunatic fringe of the Yes campaign.

In fact, all the major cinema chains have banned all ads from both sides due to the large number of complaints from independence supporters about them showing pro union ads.

A major blow to the Yes campaign whose own cinema campaign was due to start this month!

The words 'Hoist by his own petard' leap to mind!

[jpinx]

OK, that stuff is getting a bit long in the tooth now............

I have read that the Islands where the oil is have their own governing agenda thoughts, as they think the present Scots gov put them on the back burner........

What do you Independence guys think about that. Please don't post you will fix up a McD's on their Islands, or free Boots vouchers.............

One step at a time ..... one step at a time

[wigantojapan]

7by7 you are confusing healthcare in the "normal" sense, and health treatments which are non-essential. I think you really need to read the fine print of the reciprocal agreements between the countries to understand it better.

Basically if you are a resident and on a doctors list in Sussex and you travel to France, etc - if you fall sick or have an accident you will get the basic care needed and the Health board in Sussex will get the bill.

He doesn't even understand that the respective health boards are independent,,,,But again the focus has been on attacking and making the sick the victim

along with Scotland wanting something they are not entitled

better together i think not

[jpinx]

Quotes of previous posts removed to comply with forum software.

I have used the word 'citizen' when referring to the entitlement, or rather lack of it, to NHS treatment for British citizens who are resident outside the UK.

If you are going to quote what I have said, at least get it right!

.....you (7by7) have clearly on a number of occasions used the word citizen rather than residents...

What question?

There is only one unanswered question here.

I have repeatedly asked why residents of an independent Scotland should be treated any differently to all other non UK residents; you have yet to answer.

but again and you have failed to answer the initial question,,because again you have no understanding of the NHS and what its arrangements are ,,

***********************

++++++++++++++++

They will NOT be treated differently

++++++++++++++

*************

[7by7]

Patsszero,

But his, jpinx, answer was incorrect.

A British resident cannot travel to Germany to receive free medical treatment under the German healthcare system.

A German resident cannot travel to the UK to receive free treatment under the NHS.

Any resident of an EU country needs to obtain an EHIC card to receive free, or reduced cost, medical treatment in another EU state; and these do not cover trips specifically to receive treatment.

Don't believe me?

Google is your friend; Wiganetc. certainly relies on it.

As for taxes and NICs paid in the past to the UK government covering benefits in a future independent Scotland; those contributions covered the costs of running the Scottish NHS while Scotland was part of the UK. If Scotland does become independent then Scottish residents will no longer pay their taxes and NICs to the UK government. Why should the UK taxpayer continue to fund medical treatment for residents of an independent country?

I can see no reason, and no one here has yet provided one.

Edited to show which post I am replying to.

You are wrong. I am now starting to understand your mentality in this matter. Let me address the point for the last time as I feel I'm talking to a brick wall.

The UK government contracted with each citizen that they would receive a full state pension in return for thirty years of NIC.

Full stop.

The fact that the UK government has paid the pension obligation from the current year tax take is nothing to do with the individual that has paid their NIC.

Full stop.

The UK government has a legal obligation to fund Scottish resident pensioners.

Full stop.

This obligation will not end with a yes vote.

Full stop.

Not a singular UK government minister has indicated that it would.

Full stop.

That's because they know they would lose any legal challenge.

Full stop.

.......................................................................................................................................

We are discussing the future rights, or otherwise, of UK NHS treatment for residents of an independent Scotland.

Why do you constantly bring up pensions; especially as it confuses the poor lad from Wigan?

The arrangements for the continuation/transfer of state pension payments should Scotland become independent is obviously a complex matter, and some equitable arrangement will need to be made after negotiations.

I have never denied that, and I cannot understand why you keep implying that I have.

[Pattszero]

OK, that stuff is getting a bit long in the tooth now............

I have read that the Islands where the oil is have their own governing agenda thoughts, as they think the present Scots gov put them on the back burner........

What do you Independence guys think about that. Please don't post you will fix up a McD's on their Islands, or free Boots vouchers.............

Garbage.

The islands belong to the Scottish crown. They were "gifted" to the Scottish crown in exchange for a dowry debt. They can no more vote for independence than your tenant vote to keep the house that he's renting from you.

Or to put it another way, this is the equivalent of Sussex voting for independence from the rest of the UK.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet, eh?

[jpinx]

7by7 -- please do NOT ignore this statement

Scotland's residents will be treated to healthcare in EXACTLY the same way as a resident of Germany or France

Edited June 7, 2014 by jpinx

[7by7]

Exactly; and there is no reason why they should be treated any differently.

That is what I have been trying to get through to others all along!

Edited to remove mixed up quotes.

Edited June 7, 2014 by 7by7

[jpinx]

OK -- we've done oil/gas, pensions, Healthcare -- any more unanswerd questions ?

[transam]

OK -- we've done oil/gas, pensions, Healthcare -- any more unanswerd questions ?

YEH, post # 1808

[Pattszero]

Patsszero,

But his, jpinx, answer was incorrect.

A British resident cannot travel to Germany to receive free medical treatment under the German healthcare system.

A German resident cannot travel to the UK to receive free treatment under the NHS.

Any resident of an EU country needs to obtain an EHIC card to receive free, or reduced cost, medical treatment in another EU state; and these do not cover trips specifically to receive treatment.

Don't believe me?

Google is your friend; Wiganetc. certainly relies on it.

As for taxes and NICs paid in the past to the UK government covering benefits in a future independent Scotland; those contributions covered the costs of running the Scottish NHS while Scotland was part of the UK. If Scotland does become independent then Scottish residents will no longer pay their taxes and NICs to the UK government. Why should the UK taxpayer continue to fund medical treatment for residents of an independent country?

I can see no reason, and no one here has yet provided one.

Edited to show which post I am replying to.

You are wrong. I am now starting to understand your mentality in this matter. Let me address the point for the last time as I feel I'm talking to a brick wall.

The UK government contracted with each citizen that they would receive a full state pension in return for thirty years of NIC.

Full stop.

The fact that the UK government has paid the pension obligation from the current year tax take is nothing to do with the individual that has paid their NIC.

Full stop.

The UK government has a legal obligation to fund Scottish resident pensioners.

Full stop.

This obligation will not end with a yes vote.

Full stop.

Not a singular UK government minister has indicated that it would.

Full stop.

That's because they know they would lose any legal challenge.

Full stop.

.......................................................................................................................................

We are discussing the future rights, or otherwise, of UK NHS treatment for residents of an independent Scotland.

Why do you constantly bring up pensions; especially as it confuses the poor lad from Wigan?

The arrangements for the continuation/transfer of state pension payments should Scotland become independent is obviously a complex matter, and some equitable arrangement will need to be made after negotiations.

I have never denied that, and I cannot understand why you keep implying that I have.

I've answered your point twice.

I am using the pension analogy as it's a clear analogy.

I have stated that current NIC contributants from 1947 forward have a call on UK assets

I have stated that the school leaver of 2016 does not.

I accept this line from you fully -

"The arrangements for the continuation/transfer of state pension payments should Scotland become independent is obviously a complex matter, and some equitable arrangement will need to be made after negotiations."

It appears to be the case that you are now accepting that the UK government has an ongoing obligation. Good, lets not continue arguing that point.

Lets roll 100 years into the future. All current UK NI contributants are dead.

Scotland is independent. By this point the UK obligation will have expired, and Scotland will have to stand on it's own two feet. That's fine - that's what we are fighting for.

[jpinx]

OK, that stuff is getting a bit long in the tooth now............

I have read that the Islands where the oil is have their own governing agenda thoughts, as they think the present Scots gov put them on the back burner........

What do you Independence guys think about that. Please don't post you will fix up a McD's on their Islands, or free Boots vouchers.............

The topic is "Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes"

Nothing to do with some islands independence -- start a new topic (if you dare )

[wigantojapan]

A Great Ormond Street spokeswoman said there was very little risk that independence would impede Scottish patients going there. The hospital was used routinely by patients across Europe and across the world because it had very highly specialised expertise, often not available abroad.

"Some of our specialist treatments are only available here, so we're probably quite different from a lot of standard NHS hospitals, so we do have arrangements with a lot of countries because they don't have the same level of specialist care that we can offer patients."

In a statement, the hospital said: "Great Ormond Street hospital was not consulted about this advertising, and we in no way endorse its messages, or that of any other political campaign group.

"We have contacted the Vote No Borders group to request that the advert is removed from cinemas as soon as possible."

[jpinx]

OK -- we've done oil/gas, pensions, Healthcare -- any more unanswerd questions ?

YEH, post # 1808

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/684081-scotland-to-become-independent-in-march-2016-if-referendum-passes/page-73#entry7940738

Sorry .. the forum software can't cope.......

[transam]

Patsszero,

But his, jpinx, answer was incorrect.

A British resident cannot travel to Germany to receive free medical treatment under the German healthcare system.

A German resident cannot travel to the UK to receive free treatment under the NHS.

Any resident of an EU country needs to obtain an EHIC card to receive free, or reduced cost, medical treatment in another EU state; and these do not cover trips specifically to receive treatment.

Don't believe me?

Google is your friend; Wiganetc. certainly relies on it.

As for taxes and NICs paid in the past to the UK government covering benefits in a future independent Scotland; those contributions covered the costs of running the Scottish NHS while Scotland was part of the UK. If Scotland does become independent then Scottish residents will no longer pay their taxes and NICs to the UK government. Why should the UK taxpayer continue to fund medical treatment for residents of an independent country?

I can see no reason, and no one here has yet provided one.

Edited to show which post I am replying to.

You are wrong. I am now starting to understand your mentality in this matter. Let me address the point for the last time as I feel I'm talking to a brick wall.

The UK government contracted with each citizen that they would receive a full state pension in return for thirty years of NIC.

Full stop.

The fact that the UK government has paid the pension obligation from the current year tax take is nothing to do with the individual that has paid their NIC.

Full stop.

The UK government has a legal obligation to fund Scottish resident pensioners.

Full stop.

This obligation will not end with a yes vote.

Full stop.

Not a singular UK government minister has indicated that it would.

Full stop.

That's because they know they would lose any legal challenge.

Full stop.

.......................................................................................................................................

We are discussing the future rights, or otherwise, of UK NHS treatment for residents of an independent Scotland.

Why do you constantly bring up pensions; especially as it confuses the poor lad from Wigan?

The arrangements for the continuation/transfer of state pension payments should Scotland become independent is obviously a complex matter, and some equitable arrangement will need to be made after negotiations.

I have never denied that, and I cannot understand why you keep implying that I have.

I've answered your point twice.

I am using the pension analogy as it's a clear analogy.

I have stated that current NIC contributants from 1947 forward have a call on UK assets

I have stated that the school leaver of 2016 does not.

I accept this line from you fully -

"The arrangements for the continuation/transfer of state pension payments should Scotland become independent is obviously a complex matter, and some equitable arrangement will need to be made after negotiations."

It appears to be the case that you are now accepting that the UK government has an ongoing obligation. Good, lets not continue arguing that point.

Lets roll 100 years into the future. All current UK NI contributants are dead.

Scotland is independent. By this point the UK obligation will have expired, and Scotland will have to stand on it's own two feet. That's fine - that's what we are fighting for.

[wigantojapan]

Again the original question which the sussex man failed to answer

Is there a UKNHS?

Will treatment for Scots be different if the vote is no or yes?

very different to what he later went onto pensions and NIC

[wigantojapan]

Again the original question which the sussex man failed to answer

Is there a UKNHS?

Will treatment for Scots be different if the vote is no or yes?

very different to what he later went onto pensions and NIC

[Pattszero]

Can someone explain to me the implied meaning behind the "Oliver" clip?

[transam]

Patsszero,

But his, jpinx, answer was incorrect.

A British resident cannot travel to Germany to receive free medical treatment under the German healthcare system.

A German resident cannot travel to the UK to receive free treatment under the NHS.

Any resident of an EU country needs to obtain an EHIC card to receive free, or reduced cost, medical treatment in another EU state; and these do not cover trips specifically to receive treatment.

Don't believe me?

Google is your friend; Wiganetc. certainly relies on it.

As for taxes and NICs paid in the past to the UK government covering benefits in a future independent Scotland; those contributions covered the costs of running the Scottish NHS while Scotland was part of the UK. If Scotland does become independent then Scottish residents will no longer pay their taxes and NICs to the UK government. Why should the UK taxpayer continue to fund medical treatment for residents of an independent country?

I can see no reason, and no one here has yet provided one.

Edited to show which post I am replying to.

You are wrong. I am now starting to understand your mentality in this matter. Let me address the point for the last time as I feel I'm talking to a brick wall.

The UK government contracted with each citizen that they would receive a full state pension in return for thirty years of NIC.

Full stop.

The fact that the UK government has paid the pension obligation from the current year tax take is nothing to do with the individual that has paid their NIC.

Full stop.

The UK government has a legal obligation to fund Scottish resident pensioners.

Full stop.

This obligation will not end with a yes vote.

Full stop.

Not a singular UK government minister has indicated that it would.

Full stop.

That's because they know they would lose any legal challenge.

Full stop.

.......................................................................................................................................

We are discussing the future rights, or otherwise, of UK NHS treatment for residents of an independent Scotland.

Why do you constantly bring up pensions; especially as it confuses the poor lad from Wigan?

The arrangements for the continuation/transfer of state pension payments should Scotland become independent is obviously a complex matter, and some equitable arrangement will need to be made after negotiations.

I have never denied that, and I cannot understand why you keep implying that I have.

I've answered your point twice.

I am using the pension analogy as it's a clear analogy.

I have stated that current NIC contributants from 1947 forward have a call on UK assets

I have stated that the school leaver of 2016 does not.

I accept this line from you fully -

"The arrangements for the continuation/transfer of state pension payments should Scotland become independent is obviously a complex matter, and some equitable arrangement will need to be made after negotiations."

It appears to be the case that you are now accepting that the UK government has an ongoing obligation. Good, lets not continue arguing that point.

Lets roll 100 years into the future. All current UK NI contributants are dead.

Scotland is independent. By this point the UK obligation will have expired, and Scotland will have to stand on it's own two feet. That's fine - that's what we are fighting for.

The Scots future...............

[Pattszero]

^^ that's called trolling.

[wigantojapan]

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/06/07/miriam-brett-from-aye-talks/ Well here whats one young Shetlander feels on the question

[transam]

^^ that's called trolling.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, sometimes a picture speaks louder than words................