Anti-government protesters enter Thai finance ministry

[whybother]

 

 

 

Quotes got a it messed up, but the reality is, to go and threaten to or actually beat up a journalist because he is pro or anti something is so pathetic it doesn't bear explaining.  For an MP who is supposedly meant to uphold democracy and free speech to start the process, is even worse.

 

As I said elsewhere, there is no such thing as hypocrisy in Thailand, just winners and losers, the powerful and the weak.

 

Try to stay up to date, Suthep isn't an MP and hasn't been for over 2 weeks..........

 

"November 11, 2013 6:15 pm: Suthep Thaugsuban announced his resignation as an MP Monday evening to lead the fight against the Yingluck government."

 

Lastly, the anti-amnesty and anti-government protestors are not the "yellowshirts" or "PAD", they are a loose collective of several organic and independent protest groups working in unison for vaguely similar goals.  But the main conduit of unity is their mutual dislike of Thaksin and his corrupt policies and the shared belief that he is the cause of Thai disunity.

It was a different MP, not Suthep that pointed him out.

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[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed, this topic is not about a German photojournalist attacked.

[Bluespunk]

It means the government is getting ready for a violent response by their BIB or the third hand.........

thai police.jpg Police cover the CCTV cameras

That's actually scary. Why in the hell would they be covering the cameras? What are they trying to hide?

Maybe they are trying to protect the cameras so the fascist supporters can't destroy them with slings.

Why would the redshirts do that?

[kinmaew]

This makes my d*** itch watching this. You can have bl**dy Noi for PM it doesnt really matter because the problem is a lot deeper than politics which is a convenient excuse.

Thais do not have a democracy and have lived under repression and forced to accept all their lives, until this ends things will continue the way they always have.

[Imkah]

Even accepting your analysis of Reaganomics and the development of the American Middle class, it is drawing a very long bow indeed to in any way suggest that Thailand's circumstances are similar. One major divergence is the whole issue of corruption and it's octopus like stranglehold on this country ( no matter which side is in power). The USA could never have grown in the way it has with conditions in any way comparable to what Thailand faces.

Well firstly I am not talking about Reaganomics, I am if anything talking about the 'New Deal' era of the early 1930's upto the 'Great Society' era of the 1960's. The drive to recover from the Depression, invest in industry, ostracise the conservatives who were an anchor around the legs of the manufacturing economy. While everything is easier in hindsight and Roosevelt has a lot of critics, this was an era of great progress and change, incredible feats of engineering, railways and manufacturing and yes a blossoming middle class. This is especially remarkable considering the truly dark era that preceded it. And while there was not equality for all, and racism was mainstream, in terms of industry and upward mobility this age was truly a golden age, from which the US has only headed downhill since.

This also chimes in with your other point re; how does it relate to Thailand, as Roosevelt's "New Deal" era arrived on the back of the crippling depression, mass-poverty and anarchy in the streets. What it took to pull the US back from the brink was a man with a vision, and the vision was an all-out manufacturing economy, heavy industry, and full-wage rights for workers. Many many people on Thaivisa including myself, have said that all Thailand needs is a new leader with a vision for reform and the guts to go through with it. And in Thailand's case, as you so rightly pointed out, the vision would have to include as a starting position a total corruption null-point, an uprooting of the whole rotten tree, starting at the top and working down. It can be done it would just take a leader with a titanium backbone and unwavering conviction. We don't have any such leader in the public sphere, as far as I know. But that is what it would take. Also worth mentioning is that corruption is a by-product of inadequate full-wage employment, so you would crack down on corrupt politicians, officials, police, and work down to corruption in business, starting at the top. While investing in infrastructure and industry so that people who want to earn a fair wage can do so without having to resort to crime in the first place. But it takes leadership, it takes a rare and brave leader to tackle the enormous ****storm that is coming down. I pray frequently that we will see such a leader eventually.

But that is the whole problem I have with the actions in the OP. Storming buildings and hitting photographers is not what is needed. A leader with progressive thinking and the courage to fight for those ideals in the political arena, is what is needed. They will face overwhelming odds in their battle against corruption, it is a mammoth task, but history shows us that nations on the brink of disaster can turn the corner, like in the New Deal era.

Look what Korea achieved in 40 years.

Big differences.

a. The population has an enormous respect for education more than connections

b. The people that were looked to to develop the country were Korean, as opposed to Thailand where they were essentially Thai Chinese.

Both societies were enormously corrupt, but Korea got going to go forward as a country to invest and develop itself finally locking up loads of people and coppers for corruption. Thailand got ahead on a model of Thai Chinese exploiting cheap labour instead of investing in education to grow the ability of the people, so today, the Thai companies that remain must cower behind domestic protectionism whilst Korea opens up and has world class companies of it's own.

Two countries, similar journey, two outcomes.

Happy to read other voice than the usual "last nail in the coffin" voices. These are troublesome days. And so they have been for years. For one: The fights include but does not really involve "the people" of Thailand. They are unfortunately bought and allthough they are the one we see on the streets they have no real saying, and I think we can agree on this? Second: The fight we see now and the recent fights are between groups that roughly represent "new" and "old" money. There are reasons going way back when this can not be discussed in this forum. 3rd. is how to get rid of corruption. This is not easily achieved, strong leadership alone cannot do this. Nor can implentation of a so called democracy. Corruption is the back-bone of social control in Thailand today. The country is based on a paternalistic society and will need many years to move away from this. Longer than any of their neighbouring countries: as the last country in Asia (I might be wrong) and one out of few int the world (I am not wrong) they still teach their children with the outfashioned rote-learning system. This will have to go before changes can happen in Thailand. My Thailand! My penny of advice: In stead of complaining about outrageous, hilarious etc falangbusting schemes and how our pensions/salaries are going to waste: Let us "out" the Thai's for the way they are wasting their childrens futures. Let us tell them that their schoolsystem stinks! There are many a good and hard-working teachers out there, I have met many of them, but if parents and children are told that what they are doing is completely wrong, it will only take a generation to repair what is rotten in this paradise. No harsh/strong leaders. Common sense.

[diceq]

Well here we go again, back on the red/yellowshirt merry go round! To call Thailand a democracy is a farce. They do not even know how to spell the word, due largely to the fact that the day spelling democracy was on the education menu. they could not open the school because there was no money left!!!

What a shame as it could be such a great country, if only there was some unity - perhaps a subject 'democracy' should be added to the curriculum so that young Thais can get an education into what it actually consists of.

Do you mind explaining how the Thai democracy is such a bigger farce than the U.S?

Where is the logic of disabling the CCTV cameras just in case someone else may disable them, especially for the BIB who rely on them to solve crimes for them?

The logic is that they temporarily disable them to a very low cost, compared to having to actually replace them if someone destroys them. That should go without saying really.

I'm sure that if a sling shot could break a camera, a plastic bag is not going to protect it.

I can't believe someone could come up with such a pathetic excuse for the police to hide what they were doing.

You know for a fact that what they put up is normal plastic bags? Do you care to share that information with us?

And what are the police up to exactly in your opinion? Are they shooting or beating people with batons? What do you think would happen if a mob would occupy a government building in the U.S or Europe?

[whybother]

Where is the logic of disabling the CCTV cameras just in case someone else may disable them, especially for the BIB who rely on them to solve crimes for them?

The logic is that they temporarily disable them to a very low cost, compared to having to actually replace them if someone destroys them. That should go without saying really.

I'm sure that if a sling shot could break a camera, a plastic bag is not going to protect it.

I can't believe someone could come up with such a pathetic excuse for the police to hide what they were doing.

You know for a fact that what they put up is normal plastic bags? Do you care to share that information with us?

And what are the police up to exactly in your opinion? Are they shooting or beating people with batons? What do you think would happen if a mob would occupy a government building in the U.S or Europe?

Have a look at the pictures and you tell me they're not normal black plastic garbage bags.

Do you seriously think that police ANYWHERE would cover CCTVs "just in case they got damaged"? In that case, they would ALL be covered, wouldn't they?

They are there to catch crimes happening. The idea that they're being covered up to protect them when there is a high chance that they will be needed, is simply ridiculous.

It's actually pointless arguing against such a pathetic suggestion.

[waza]

Where is the logic of disabling the CCTV cameras just in case someone else may disable them, especially for the BIB who rely on them to solve crimes for them?

The logic is that they temporarily disable them to a very low cost, compared to having to actually replace them if someone destroys them. That should go without saying really.

I'm sure that if a sling shot could break a camera, a plastic bag is not going to protect it.

I can't believe someone could come up with such a pathetic excuse for the police to hide what they were doing.

You know for a fact that what they put up is normal plastic bags? Do you care to share that information with us?

And what are the police up to exactly in your opinion? Are they shooting or beating people with batons? What do you think would happen if a mob would occupy a government building in the U.S or Europe?

Have a look at the pictures and you tell me they're not normal black plastic garbage bags.

Do you seriously think that police ANYWHERE would cover CCTVs "just in case they got damaged"? In that case, they would ALL be covered, wouldn't they?

They are there to catch crimes happening. The idea that they're being covered up to protect them when there is a high chance that they will be needed, is simply ridiculous.

It's actually pointless arguing against such a pathetic suggestion.

Also what police force would do that in the middle of a mass protest that threatens to escalate into violence?

[whybother]

Also what police force would do that in the middle of a mass protest that threatens to escalate into violence?

One that has something to hide?

[diceq]

Have a look at the pictures and you tell me they're not normal black plastic garbage bags.

Do you seriously think that police ANYWHERE would cover CCTVs "just in case they got damaged"? In that case, they would ALL be covered, wouldn't they?

They are there to catch crimes happening. The idea that they're being covered up to protect them when there is a high chance that they will be needed, is simply ridiculous.

It's actually pointless arguing against such a pathetic suggestion.

Yes in the that picture it looks like they are putting up a normal black plastic bag. That does not limit the possibility that something was put up before, as well, over the camera. And I do not know how many cameras that have been covered, I assume it is most of them in the area where the fascist supporters are gathered.

And no ,I don't think that normal police in the U.S or Europe would do that. They would instead attack the demonstrators with rubber bullets, tear gas and batons. Then they would use the photographs from the cameras to prosecute people who attacked the police. In comparison with the U.S and Europe, Thailand is a much more democratic society in this respect.

What is ridiculous is that you claim the police is doing it to cover something up. When in reality they are not attacking the mob in any way. And the fact that you keep using the word pathetic just shows that you have zero arguments.

One that has something to hide?

Again, the police are not attacking the mob in any way. What would they have to hide?

Edited November 26, 2013 by diceq

[whybother]

Have a look at the pictures and you tell me they're not normal black plastic garbage bags.

Do you seriously think that police ANYWHERE would cover CCTVs "just in case they got damaged"? In that case, they would ALL be covered, wouldn't they?

They are there to catch crimes happening. The idea that they're being covered up to protect them when there is a high chance that they will be needed, is simply ridiculous.

It's actually pointless arguing against such a pathetic suggestion.

Yes in the that picture it looks like they are putting up a normal black plastic bag. That does not limit the possibility that something was put up before, as well, over the camera.

And no ,I don't think that normal police in the U.S or Europe would do that. They would instead attack the demonstrators with rubber bullets, tear gas and batons. Then they would use the photographs from the cameras to prosecute people who attacked the police. In comparison with the U.S and Europe, Thailand is a much more democratic society in this respect.

What is ridiculous is that you claim the police is doing it to cover something up. When in reality they are not attacking the mob in any way. And the fact that you keep using the word pathetic just shows that you have zero arguments.

One that has something to hide?

Again, the police are not attacking the mob in any way. What would they have to hide?

We'll see what happens when there are confrontations between the protesters and the police.

The cameras are there for security. It's ridiculous to suggest that they're being covered up just in case they get broken.

[mgjackson69]

If the police want to "hide something" would it not be easier to just turn those cameras off, rather than going to the effort of physically covering them.

It seems more likely this is a scare tactic

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[petedk]

If the police want to "hide something" would it not be easier to just turn those cameras off, rather than going to the effort of physically covering them.

It seems more likely this is a scare tactic

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just had a talk with a former "hard core " red shirt.

Basically she said that Yingluck has invoked the ISA because if any deaths occur in that area she cannot be held responsible.

The cctv cameras are obviously being covered so that there is no proof of wrong doing. In other words the government will deny any claims of violence started by the police.

These are her words not mine, but I for once in my life tend to agree with her.

[whybother]

If the police want to "hide something" would it not be easier to just turn those cameras off, rather than going to the effort of physically covering them.

It seems more likely this is a scare tactic

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just had a talk with a former "hard core " red shirt.

Basically she said that Yingluck has invoked the ISA because if any deaths occur in that area she cannot be held responsible.

The cctv cameras are obviously being covered so that there is no proof of wrong doing. In other words the government will deny any claims of violence started by the police.

These are her words not mine, but I for once in my life tend to agree with her.

That can't be right. Abhisit and Suthep have been charged with murder, even though there was an ISA in force. Can't be having double standards now, can we?

[Emptyset]

If the police want to "hide something" would it not be easier to just turn those cameras off, rather than going to the effort of physically covering them.

It seems more likely this is a scare tactic

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just had a talk with a former "hard core " red shirt.

Basically she said that Yingluck has invoked the ISA because if any deaths occur in that area she cannot be held responsible.

The cctv cameras are obviously being covered so that there is no proof of wrong doing. In other words the government will deny any claims of violence started by the police.

These are her words not mine, but I for once in my life tend to agree with her.

That can't be right. Abhisit and Suthep have been charged with murder, even though there was an ISA in force. Can't be having double standards now, can we?

Don't know what the deal is with the cameras, would like to find out more. But ISA has been in force since these protests started. Nothing's changed in that respect. Abhisit was protected by the SOE, not ISA, IIRC.

[petedk]

If the police want to "hide something" would it not be easier to just turn those cameras off, rather than going to the effort of physically covering them.

It seems more likely this is a scare tactic

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just had a talk with a former "hard core " red shirt.

Basically she said that Yingluck has invoked the ISA because if any deaths occur in that area she cannot be held responsible.

The cctv cameras are obviously being covered so that there is no proof of wrong doing. In other words the government will deny any claims of violence started by the police.

These are her words not mine, but I for once in my life tend to agree with her.

That can't be right. Abhisit and Suthep have been charged with murder, even though there was an ISA in force. Can't be having double standards now, can we?

That was exactly what I said but her reply was that the democrats were wrong to enter government buildings.

I asked about the red shirts at Ratchaprasong... "oh that was a peaceful demonstration on the streets and Abhisit gave orders to kill them."

You just can't argue with some Thais, they can twist the facts to suit themselves..

[petedk]

If the police want to "hide something" would it not be easier to just turn those cameras off, rather than going to the effort of physically covering them.

It seems more likely this is a scare tactic

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just had a talk with a former "hard core " red shirt.

Basically she said that Yingluck has invoked the ISA because if any deaths occur in that area she cannot be held responsible.

The cctv cameras are obviously being covered so that there is no proof of wrong doing. In other words the government will deny any claims of violence started by the police.

These are her words not mine, but I for once in my life tend to agree with her.

That can't be right. Abhisit and Suthep have been charged with murder, even though there was an ISA in force. Can't be having double standards now, can we?

Don't know what the deal is with the cameras, would like to find out more. But ISA has been in force since these protests started. Nothing's changed in that respect. Abhisit was protected by the SOE, not ISA, IIRC.

The ISA has been in force in just a few of the central areas. I think many of the buildings that are now being occupied by the protestors are outside of the previous ISA areas.

[whybother]

Don't know what the deal is with the cameras, would like to find out more. But ISA has been in force since these protests started. Nothing's changed in that respect. Abhisit was protected by the SOE, not ISA, IIRC.

Abhisit also invoked the ISA, so theoretically he was protected by that, as well as the SOE.

The ISA was only in force in 3 districts until yesterday. Now it's all of Bangkok, plus some.

[lostmebike]

The fun begins!

[petedk]

The fun begins!

I think the fun begins in parliament with the grilling of Yingluck.

That's something I would love to see.

Edited November 26, 2013 by petedk

[lostmebike]

The fun begins!

I think the fun begins in parliament with the grilling of Yingluck.

That's something I would love to see.

Yeah the 'no confidence debate' starts today right? I wonder how much she's gonna squirm without big bruv's coaching? Be interesting to see later anyhow.

[gerry1011]

The gentle protesters are slowly upgrading to illegal activities.

Criminal behavior is next.

Suthep should get what he deserves for inciting those naive protesters to commit such disrupting acts and bring chaos in bangkok.

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[mgjackson69]

If the police want to "hide something" would it not be easier to just turn those cameras off, rather than going to the effort of physically covering them.

It seems more likely this is a scare tactic

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Just had a talk with a former "hard core " red shirt.

 

Basically she said that Yingluck has invoked the ISA because if any deaths occur in that area she cannot be held responsible.

 

The cctv cameras are obviously being covered so that there is no proof of wrong doing. In other words the government will deny any claims of violence started by the police.

 

These are her words not mine, but I for once in my life tend to agree with her.

It is not obvious at all.

If the intent is to merely 'hide something', why would the police not simply turn the cameras off?

I think the police do not want a confrontation and are giving the protestors a hint to disperse.

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[whybother]

I'm sure that if a sling shot could break a camera, a plastic bag is not going to protect it.

I can't believe someone could come up with such a pathetic excuse for the police to hide what they were doing.

You know for a fact that what they put up is normal plastic bags? Do you care to share that information with us?

And what are the police up to exactly in your opinion? Are they shooting or beating people with batons? What do you think would happen if a mob would occupy a government building in the U.S or Europe?

They are black plastic bags. There is nothing else "protecting" them.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/684333-thailand-live-tuesday-26-nov-2013/?p=7083167

What are the government trying to hide?

[NCFC]

Most Thaivisa posters will no doubt be familiar with photojournalist Nick Nostitz. After Bluesky TV had a section devoted to him insisiting he works for the reds (total nonsense as we know), unfortunately it then appears Nick was assaulted (not sure how badly injured he is) after being singled out by a Democrat MP from the stage:

Anasuya ‏@Anasuya 2h

Democrat MP Chumpon pointed him out from the protest stage calling him a "red shirt journalist" and urged the crowd to kick him out.

Anasuya ‏@Anasuya 2h

Nick said it was seconds before the first fists hit him. He is filing charges and this rules out him covering the yellow protests

He also appears to have been singled out on the Blue SkyTV FB page: https://www.facebook.com/BLUESKYChannel/posts/406698986099538

Anyway, people complaining that the anti-govt protests are not receiving coverage. Well, they were on Channel 3 last night. It'd be understandable if Channel 3 were reluctant to show them again though after they apparently forced their way in and demanded that Sorrayuth blow a whistle and apologize...

Sunai ‏@sunaibkk 49m

Getting disgusting! While Sorayuth urged for peaceful expression & respect for different opinions, protesters demanded him to apologize.

Sunai ‏@sunaibkk 46m

Protesters demanding Sorayuth to blow a whistle, handed to him by Democrat politician. > #Intimidation

This is a glimpse of the future should the ultra-nationalists get into a position of power.

Already Suthep has made hate speeches against the west and westerners involved in Thailand. But I doubt they will take action against the oil companies against whom they rant because the oil companies invest serious money into Thailand, and besides the Thais could end up without oil imports if they go down that route. Neither will the ultra-nationalists go after the international banks, another group they scorn, because again the reality is that Thai companies depend upon foreign capital investment.

No. What we will see is something similar to the attacks on the likes of Nick Nostitz, they will go after the little guy. The easy targets will be the foreigners with businesses here. The farang just wanting to get on with his life and do a little bit for Thailand as well. So you run a small business here and employ a few Thai staff, well expect it to be seized and handed over to a Thai. If these ultra-nationalists get into power don't be surprised to see your teaching job ended as they are against the creeping influence of English in Thai culture. English won't be needed in a self-sufficiency economy. Expect to see further restrictions on the right of foreigners to live in Thailand. This is the foretaste on things to come.

[Loles]

Yingluck calls Thaksin:

Y: You can see, how much problem you made me with your pushy return to TH.

T: Mai pen rai my sister. Don't worry!

Y: But the protesters captured a ministry also.

T: Which one?

Y: Finance ministry.

T: You have to take the army right now, there are many many sensitive files.

Y: Mai pen rai my brother, I follow you as soon as possible.

T: But don't forget the bags! You understand, are you?

Y: The bags are ready, don't worry at all!

T: Wait! Wait! Wait! And who will the next PM? The red clown team will elect us again.

Y: You know we have a cusin, our mother's sisters' anunt's son's grandson. You know the small Surasak Shinawatra.

T: I know him, but he can't speak at all, and he is dumb as he can!

Y: Mai pen rai my brother, he gets 2 experts to help him by skype.

..

T: Yes my sister, and when he makes his campaign we will bring out he is our CLOWN.

Y: Very good idea! ......But why I have DEJA VU ?

[whybother]

BANGKOK: -- A bomb was thrown at the police barricade at the Makkawan bridge on Tuesday night, but there were no injuries however, said police.

Pol Maj-Gen Chanthawit Ramasut, deputy commissioner of metropolitan police, said that it was lucky that the bomb hit the concrete barrier and exploded so no one was injured.

Earlier before the bomb attack, he said that some assailants had used sling shots to fire iron bolts into the police at Makkawan bridge.

Policemen gave chase but the assailants managed to escape, he said, adding that police would examine video clips from surveillance cameras in the vicinity to try to track down the assailants.

"police would examine video clips from surveillance cameras in the vicinity"

Well, they would if the cameras weren't covered in black garbage bags.

Edited November 26, 2013 by whybother

[diceq]

We'll see what happens when there are confrontations between the protesters and the police.

The cameras are there for security. It's ridiculous to suggest that they're being covered up just in case they get broken.

What confrontations are you talking about? You conveniently ignore the fact that the police have done nothing despite the mob have occupied several government buildings.

AGAIN: Had that occurred anywhere in Europe or the U.S, the cops would have fired rubber bullets and tear gas against the protesters.

The only thing that's ridiculous is that you choose to ignore these obvious facts. You only see what you want to see.

[whybother]

 

 

We'll see what happens when there are confrontations between the protesters and the police.

 

The cameras are there for security.  It's ridiculous to suggest that they're being covered up just in case they get broken.

 

 

What confrontations are you talking about? You conveniently ignore the fact that the police have done nothing despite the mob have occupied several government buildings. 

 

AGAIN: Had that occurred anywhere in Europe or the U.S, the cops would have fired rubber bullets and tear gas against the protesters.

 

The only thing that's ridiculous is that you choose to ignore these obvious facts. You only see what you want to see.

"WHEN" there are confrontations.

The police must be expecting confrontations because they are "protecting" the cameras, and expect them to be damaged by the protesters. Of course, they don't want any evidence of what happens.

I am surprised they've got riot gear. Imagine if it got damaged. Maybe they should cover the shields with black plastic garbage bags to protect them, or even better, throw away the shields and just use the garbage bags. You seem to think they do a great job at protecting things.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[whybother]

 

 

We'll see what happens when there are confrontations between the protesters and the police.

 

The cameras are there for security.  It's ridiculous to suggest that they're being covered up just in case they get broken.

 

 

What confrontations are you talking about? You conveniently ignore the fact that the police have done nothing despite the mob have occupied several government buildings. 

 

AGAIN: Had that occurred anywhere in Europe or the U.S, the cops would have fired rubber bullets and tear gas against the protesters.

 

The only thing that's ridiculous is that you choose to ignore these obvious facts. You only see what you want to see.

The obvious facts are that the police are covering up the security cameras with black plastic garbage bags at a time when getting security footage could be very important.

Why did the red shirts cover the security cameras with black plastic at Ratchaprasong in 2010? It wasn't to protect the cameras.

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