Thaksin calls USA a "useless friend"

[george]

Thai leader calls US a "useless friend"

Bush and Thaksin appeared the best of friends

during the APEC summit in Bangkok last October.

BANGKOK - Thailand's prime minister, a key American ally in the war on terror, blasted Washington on Friday as a "useless friend'' after a U.S. State Department report criticised his government's human rights record.

"I am very upset and annoyed by the report,'' Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra told reporters, reacting to the State Department's annual report on the state of human rights in the world during 2003.

He said U.S. Ambassador Darryl Johnson will be summoned to the Foreign Ministry later Friday to hear an official complaint from the government.

In its section on Thailand, the report said the human rights situation in Thailand was generally positive last year but that the government's record worsened on extra-judicial killings and arbitrary arrests.

It cited the killings of drug suspects during confrontations with police during a war on drugs ordered by Thaksin between February and April last year.

News reports and human rights groups said more than 2,000 people were killed in what they described as summary executions.

"A report that takes its information from the media is unacceptable to me,'' Thaksin said.

"What kind of friends are they? They are friends who damage the reputation of their friends every year. What would they do if Thailand issued the same report annually? These kind of friends are useless friends,'' he said.

Thaksin won personal praise from U.S. President George W. Bush last year after Thai police arrested a top terrorist suspect, Hambali, in a central Thai city. Hambali, an Indonesian, has been described as al-Qaida's pointman in the region.

He is now being held by the United States in an undisclosed location.

Thaksin said his government had already explained to the United States last year its position that the drug deaths were caused by internecine fighting among drug barons.

The drug killings caused a huge uproar among local and human rights organizations. The U.S. Embassy had also officially expressed concern about the killings.

The government claims that out of a total of 2,598 homicide cases during the February-April, 2003 period, there were 1,383 narcotics-related deaths, of which just 42 people were shot by police, mostly in self-defense.

The rest, it says, were killed by drug gang infighting.

However, the State Department report said the Thai government "failed to investigate and prosecute vigorously those who committed such abuses, contributing to a climate of impunity.''

Thaksin did not comment on the overall tone of the report, which considered the general human rights situation in the country as positive.

In a statement late Thursday, the Foreign Ministry said the Thai government is "deeply disappointed'' with the report, which it said "contains a number of factual inaccuracies ... as was the case with the year 2002 and 2001 reports.''

-- AP 2004-02-27

[Suzy]

Toxin has an aversion to hearing the truth from anybody, especially from those overseas who can see through his flim-flam.

[Axel]

If the findings of the US State department are correct or not is one thing. I believe they are correct.

Another thing, however, is the criticizing of Thailand, an idependant country by a foreign government. I do not care, if it is the USA or Timbuktu who feels to be so above everything that they can blame others. Do not throw with stones when sitting in a glass house.

If somebody feels that something is wrong in Thailand or wherever, there are proper ways to deal with. Go to the U.N. or go to the courts in The Hague, otherwise stick to your own business.

[ChiangMaiThai]

While I agree that its not the place of the US to issue reports on other countries like this, what they are saying is accepted as fact. To say that all the killings were simply the result of drug dealers fighting eachother is simply utter bullshit. Once again, Dear Leader is brushing aside the facts as if they don't exist.

[Maejo Man]

My Dear Axel, as a senior member it amazes me that you came out in support of the Thai government under harsh critisism. The Thaksin reign of terror has to stop! The man thinks he is omnipotent, and free from any blame in anything he creates.

He has cheated, lied, schemed and above all hid truths from the poulace that gave him power. Worst of all, he told the nation that the soldiers in the arsenal raid, "deserved to die!" The man should be in a zoo! I hope the democrats decimate him in the next election.

[Guest IT Manager]

Propriety forbids me to express my personal view, but, whilst I don't like Mr Busch....

[Guest IT Manager]

My Dear Axel, as a senior member it amazes me that you came out in support of the Thai government under harsh critisism. The Thaksin reign of terror has to stop! The man thinks he is omnipotent, and free from any blame in anything he creates.

He has cheated, lied, schemed and above all hid truths from the poulace that gave him power. Worst of all, he told the nation that the soldiers in the arsenal raid, "deserved to die!" The man should be in a zoo! I hope the democrats decimate him in the next election.

Maejo I am very very surprised that you took all that time to make my point for me.

Thank you.. and good night..

[wolf5370]

Seems humourous to me that it is the US saying this. Hardly the best known follower of human rights in the world. What with the holding of suspected terrorists in far from ideal conditions in Cuba.

Also, with reference to the "failed to investigate and prosecute vigorously those who committed such abuses, contributing to a climate of impunity.'' statement - I seem to remember a certain riot being caused when several white police officers clubbed the four-hashes out of a black guy laying in the street in America was videoed and those involved were not prosecuted. Even though the video was clear enough to identify the officers - and was broadcast across the world.

They are also one of only two conutries in the world (only 1st world country) to execute children.

Thailand created a 'zero tollerence on drugs' compaign. This lead to many drug dealers wiping out anyone that they though might turn evidence on them. You can't make omlets without breaking eggs. The message did go out, and it worked at least as well as expected - it is a problem that is almost impossible to remove. The USA, like every other country in the world, have found no answer to the problem - its growing everywhere and every attempted cure has little impact. Much work has been done by the Thai goverment of late, and the palace stretching back.

You can say much about Thaksin's governance, much of it dubios. However, one area he seems to be truly commited to is the removal of organised crime - in particular vice.

USA: People in glass houses and all that.

[The_Moog]

USA locking away Mullahs in Guantanamo Bay.

Thailand's drug pushers meeting with 'unfortunate accidents'.

I think the two countries are ideal buddies !

[Guest IT Manager]

Moog have I ever mentioned the devastation your signature caused in my house?

[beach]

Let's face it. You like it or not, but with Thaksin's cleanup on drugs, dealers and addicts the situation in the whole country is much better than ever. Did anyone of you travel through the northern and eastern part of Thailand in the last 2 years? If not, before the cleanup, there where addicts sitting or lying in the villages, some even had just made a shot, the syringe still in their arms. This you won't see anymore anywhere.

I wonder what would one of you say when your child would become a drug addict and the police and other agencies would just do nothing?

Human rights for dealers, don't make me laugh.

The other job he's done well is to improve efficiency of officers working in government places.

I don't agree with all rules and restrictions this government is setting up but I do know what is good for society and families with children.

cheers

beach

[meadish_sweetball]

Human rights issues are everywhere. My own country has a few things it gets criticism from Amnesty International for (putting what is internationelly classified as 'minors' in jail-like institutions, for example).

Of course, the US has plenty of human rights issues as well, but I am not so sure I agree about that they should just clean up their own back yard in this case. The criticism seems justified, coming from any person or country.

Mr. Leader is in turn critisising the US for not believing the government's official statements about the drug war.

I am sorry, but we have seen what the government's official statements amount to in other issues (bird flu ring a bell?) - please give us a good reason why we should believe you in this case.

While the media's claims are generally always to be treated with a few scoops of salt, I think anyone with some sense will be even more wary about statements originating from the national police force...

On a non-moral note, it is also extremely politically unwise to further fuel the animosity with statements such as "useless friends".

Cheers.

[chuckygobyebye]

Well, if it's a state-department report wouldn't it be basically prepared for internal use? Like, for use by the US government?

We all know that the cops were given a license to kill during the drug war. So what should the state department do? Lie so they don't offend people? Or should they keep their reports secret?

[meadish_sweetball]

beach,

While I agree that Thailand's drug situation seems to have improved because of the campaign, it is the methods, and not the goal of the campaign which received criticism. Fair criticism, because innocent people were killed in the process.

It is fair to ask of a democracy that such deaths are at least given due attention and investigation. This was not always the case.

Cheers.

[BlackJack]

As the King said - Thaksin must accept critisism - its the only way to learn

Looks like he hasnt heeded the advice

Toxin is not the first in history to suffer from Illusions of Grandeur

Poor bugger when he falls from grace its gonna hurt like ######

[Rinrada]

He will obviously be a very good football boss with his ability to keep so many balls in the air at one time

[Axel]

My Dear Axel, as a senior member it amazes me that you came out in support of the Thai government under harsh critisism. The Thaksin reign of terror has to stop! The man thinks he is omnipotent, and free from any blame in anything he creates.

He has cheated, lied, schemed and above all hid truths from the poulace that gave him power. Worst of all, he told the nation that the soldiers in the arsenal raid, "deserved to die!" The man should be in a zoo! I hope the democrats decimate him in the next election.

Maejo Man, I think you did read my post a bit too fast. Re-read just the two first sentences.

Anyway, I do agree to what you say about the DL, but and that's a BUT I disagree to any foreign nation's right to officially complain as in this case the US-State Department apparently did. It is none of their business!

For internal study, fine with me but then don't publish it. He who is without fail may throw a stone, neither the USA, nor Timbuktu nor any country in between is without fail.

As for DL himself, I don't worry he will come down and faster than we can expect at this moment. It will come from within in the usual Thai way. I don't think Thailand needs foreign help for this.

[mouse]

Who cares what the State Department of the USA thinks about Human Rights. Just another useless description or phrase we invented, like terrorism, illegal combatant and WMD and the like.

What Thaksin allegedly did with the drug problem was justified. The persons that perpetrated those crimes were domestic terrorist acting against the interest of the people of Thailand.

The State Department should look into the United Sates and publicize the crimes against humanity being perpetrated by the drug pushers and users there and the U.S. Government there and abroad.

And since the Thai Drug perpetrators will be reincarnated under Buddhism, it really should not matter to anyone, should it?

That is my opinion as an American can you imagine if I was a Thai!!!!!

[britmaveric]

Truth is sometimes hard to swallow - granted this isn't the most adept way of getting a message out, but possibly the Thai Govt was given warning that this was going to come out unless they made wholesale changes. Regardless I don't see anything bad about expressing opinions on other countries infact it happens all the time. Thailand is free to issue a report about America too!

[xbusman]

It is the state departments job to study and accurately report on each and every foreign government. These reports are used by american business, labor, charities and other government agencies to craft appropriate relationships outside the States. The human rights report is just one of hundreds of reports furnished that cover everything from ecomony to health to just about anything. If a foreign government or the american public take offense at these congressionally mandated reports, they can take issue with the appropriate agency as Thaksin has done. Poorly thought out statements to the press is hardly an appropriate communications procedure for first world countries who generally pursue a more cautious reasoned approach.

All countries have some sort of similar service for their political branch, that the US process is so public and people so interested is gratifying despite the inevitable bashing about glass houses. Personally, I like the clarity of glass houses.

[Deadcert]

Does the end justify the means, maybe it does. I wish the British Goverment would implement some Thaxin like methods of dealing with drugs and its associated crime

[PlanetMan]

What Thaksin allegedly did with the drug problem was justified.  The persons that perpetrated those crimes were domestic terrorist acting against the interest of the people of Thailand. 

Easy there, mouse. I accept that criminals deserve the punishment a state assigns to the crimes for which they are convicted. But the RTP murdered 2500 innocent citizens and guests of Thailand, whose only crime was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. They were not charged; not tried; only sentenced, and brutally so. To call them drug dealers is to make yourself an active participant in yet another Taksin whitewash.

We have no idea if these murder victims were violating any law. The police, acting as judge, jury and executioner, saw to it there was no corpus on which the justice of due process could be served.

This is one of the key points of a government system of checks and balances. Those responsible for enforcing the law are not given the authority to punish violators of the law. The conflict of interest is irresitable to mortal humans, as so chillingly demonstrated by the RTP.

"Power corrupts. And absolute power corrupts absolutely."

[britmaveric]

Far as Drug dealers - I have no problem with them making wholesale executions. (Shot on sight) They are the worst parasites in the world. If Thai Govt wants to rid themselves of these sorts then so be it. However the only problem I have is the Thai police- I'm not very confident or trusting of them.

[Orion76]

If not, before the cleanup, there where addicts sitting or lying in the villages, some even had just made a shot, the syringe still in their arms. This you won't see anymore anywhere.

Yeah now they make sure to do it inside out of the view of others... but did all those drug addicts kick the habit overnight? It would be pretty naive to believe that just because you see less of it the problem has gone.

I wonder what would one of you say when your child would become a drug addict and the police and other agencies would just do nothing?

If you had paid attention then maybe you had noticed mostly small time dealers got killed, the type who'd sell a few pills here and there to be able to support their own habit. I wonder what you would say if your child was selling pills to support his habit and police did do something, like gun him down.

Human rights for dealers, don't make me laugh

Tell that to the parents of those who died.

Not that I am against a tough policy on drugs... but it's not a black and white case, not all small time dealers are evil people who deserve to be gunned down without a trial.

Actually nobody deserves to be gunned down without a trial. A fair trial is a basic human right and a drug dealer is only a drug dealer if this has been proven in court.

[Orion76]

Far as Drug dealers - I have no problem with them making wholesale executions. (Shot on sight) They are the worst parasites in the world. If Thai Govt wants to rid themselves of these sorts then so be it. However the only problem I have is the Thai police- I'm not very confident or trusting of them.

The first problem that comes to mind is that your business competitor could convince a friendly police officer that you are an evil drug lord, a bullet to the back of the neck and you'll never be able to prove him wrong.

That's why EVERYONE deserves a fair trial, period.

[pipchatel]

Well last year when all the killings were in full swing, I was telling a few freinds in the U K/Europe the situation. Surprisingling, many felt its...." what we should have more of here, too soft in the west" and its true. The suffering that goes on , in Thailand, then on, as the drugs filter thro the world is just tragic. So, yes mr Takin, USA ,

a false freind indeed. How can Pres Bush with his wild west law approach, oppose such actions?

[Thailand]

I think our first person was absolutely correct in admonishing the US government for their unjustified criticism of this almost perfect society in which we have the honor to call home.

All seems to be a bit of a witchhunt to me.

How, he could possibly be criticised for not telling the rest of the world of the minor problem with our feathered friends I just do not understand! OK, a little bending of the truth in acceptable from all the governments of the world.

All power to the courageous minister who basically said if you do not buy our poulltry we will not buy your goods. We don't need them do we?

Kill a few druggies and if a few innocents get in the way, so what, why were the there in the first place?

Incidentally , my visa is up for renewal shortly!

[paulsenp]

"A report that takes its information from the media is unacceptable to me,'' Thaksin said.

And guess who controls a substantial part of the media in Thailand?

[cdnvic]

Who cares what the State Department of the USA thinks about Human Rights. Just another useless description or phrase we invented, like terrorism, illegal combatant and WMD and the like.

What Thaksin allegedly did with the drug problem was justified. The persons that perpetrated those crimes were domestic terrorist acting against the interest of the people of Thailand.

The State Department should look into the United Sates and publicize the crimes against humanity being perpetrated by the drug pushers and users there and the U.S. Government there and abroad.

And since the Thai Drug perpetrators will be reincarnated under Buddhism, it really should not matter to anyone, should it?

That is my opinion as an American can you imagine if I was a Thai!!!!!

Mousee, for your sake I seriously hope you never become a bother to the wrong person, even unintentionally. Your statements seem to indicate that killing people without benefit of trial or due process is fine if it helps deal with a drug problem. If someone showed up at the foot of your bed one night with a gun because it would be easier for someone if you were to leave this earth then you would smile and think "Its okay, I'm going to heaven anyway!".

Oh, and not all Buddhists believe in reincarnation. No matter if they believe in it or not, kids still cry at their parents' funerals and vice versa.

I am not a fan whatsoever of GWB or US forgien policy, by I am a fan of free speech and think that every country has a right to express their opinions about others.

cv

[ahi]

I have been and am constantly amazed at the lack of political savy amoung the senior politicians here.

One of the greatest and noblist human beings ( THE KING ) attempts to instill wisdom into the political framework and minds of Senior Politicians but they just can not or will not follow his recommendations.

Accepting negative feedback is the absolute number one virtue of anyone in a leadership position. What has gone wrong? Do FACE issues overwhelm practicality?

Politicians must surely understand that off the wall comments; especially in public; lead to unwanted retaliation; however the retaliation should be done in the proper forum.

This country has a great oppotunity to flourish; why are they making it difficult.