I will be fired soon. How can I protect myself?

[lyanika]

I work for a thai resort for more than 2 year and there will be some changes here. I have work permit (will expire in aug 2014) and one-year Non-immigrant B visa (exp. Feb 2014).

As I heard the company will try to fire all of us (2 thai and me as a farang) next year, but they don't want to pay the compensation (as I know 3 months for me), so they will try to force us to resign. In my case they just won't help me to extend my visa, so after 4. February I may not work.

My question is, if I'm ready to keep on working here and have every required document to extend my visa, is it a termination on their site? So it means they have to pay me 3 months compensation. Am I right?

[ubonjoe]

They have to give you 30 days notice and give you severance pay.

[Colabamumbai]

But what they have to do and what they do could be two different things here. I find that paper does not mean much to them. Also be aware that if you do continue working, you will need to show taxes deducted and paid from your salary of "50,000 Baht" a month, in order to get a further extension. Whether your salary is the amount required for hotel management jobs, or in fact less.

Check all the items and sub items listed in the contract, it may be worded to allow them to get out of it,with clause number ####. ie: if you are let go due to whatever, the salad was soggy, no compensation will be paid.

Not meant to be a negative reply, as I was also employed as a resort manager and Korat Immigration and my boss both knew before I did that no taxes had been paid on my behalf and I would not get an extension. Nice way to let me leave, negating my Non B visa.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Colabamumbai

[Dork]

I believe that the Labour Department will support you in such a case. You are entitled to 90 days severance (employed more than 1 year but less than 3) and if your employer still refuses to pay by the time your permission to stay expires, you may qualify for a further extension. I've never heard of anyone utilising it but there is provision for 90 day extensions based on being involved in litigation.

No contract can override the labour law so your employer can't just make up a reason to fire you and the labour department is biased towards the employee in such cases.

[siddv]

Ur in Thailand. Don't be silly. You know you have no rights. You know this going in..we all do !!

[ubonjoe]

Ur in Thailand. Don't be silly. You know you have no rights. You know this going in..we all do !!

You are completely wrong.

This type of altitude or perception just leads people not to use the rights they do have.

[chrisinth]

Ur in Thailand. Don't be silly. You know you have no rights. You know this going in..we all do !!

Actually, that is very wrong information. As Dork stated earlier, the labour department tends to side with the employee in cases of unfair dismissal.

[Torrens54]

Start applying for another job.

It is always easier to get a job when you have one.....and of course there is no need to mention when applying for the new job that the old one is about to go down the toilet. Prospective employers in the industry may or may not know but wait for them to ask.

[canman]

Ur in Thailand. Don't be silly. You know you have no rights. You know this going in..we all do !!

Actually, that is very wrong information. As Dork stated earlier, the labour department tends to side with the employee in cases of unfair dismissal.

Quite right. I have seen a couple cases where the labour department went to bat for a foreigner.

[chappie1207]

Ur in Thailand. Don't be silly. You know you have no rights. You know this going in..we all do !!

You are completely wrong.

This type of altitude or perception just leads people not to use the rights they do have.

Agreed, my previous employer closed their operations here in Thailand and tried everything to not pay staff...The labour dept were fantastic and we all received the severance pay that must be paid.... you do have rights here and the officials will help.

[recycler]

Contact the labor department, explain the situation, they will help you, they are not nice to employers who are wrong!

Although this procedure can take some time and you don't have time, because when you are fired your workpermit and visa are terminated and you have to leave the country in 8 days.

It's a very common trick of employers here to make work so miserable for you that you leave, happens all the time at all levels.

If you want to stay here you better find a new job soon in stead of waiting for it to happen.

[ThaiFelix]

Contact the labor department, explain the situation, they will help you, they are not nice to employers who are wrong!

Although this procedure can take some time and you don't have time, because when you are fired your workpermit and visa are terminated and you have to leave the country in 8 days.

It's a very common trick of employers here to make work so miserable for you that you leave, happens all the time at all levels.

If you want to stay here you better find a new job soon in stead of waiting for it to happen.

If I am not mistaken or things have changed, you have to cancel your work permit and visa via a letter from employer and then have only 24 hours to leave the country.

[Mario2008]

But can get an extra 7 days from immigraiton for 1,900 baht.

[ubonjoe]

In reality it is midnight of the day your extension is cancelled unless you apply for a 7 day extension and pay 1900 baht for it.

[recycler]

But your employer doesn't need you to cancel the workpermit and visa, it can happen without you even knowing it.

Must have been in the past 3 years that they changed it from 8 days to out on the same day. I considered the 8 days already harsh if you have to leave all behind.

It happened to me 3 years ago when the lawyer that was hired by the company I started for <deleted> up out of ignorance. She handed in my workpermit from my own company before the new workpermit was applied for and she didn't tell us before the 8 days were past too. That cost me a bit more than 1900 Baht at immigrations to be able to stay.

[ubonjoe]

It has never been 8 days just 7 that I know of.

[Bagwan]

Ur in Thailand. Don't be silly. You know you have no rights. You know this going in..we all do !!

Actually, that is very wrong information. As Dork stated earlier, the labour department tends to side with the employee in cases of unfair dismissal.

Quite right. I have seen a couple cases where the labour department went to bat for a foreigner.

Hopefully they were not English batsmen.

[96tehtarp]

I believe that the Labour Department will support you in such a case. You are entitled to 90 days severance (employed more than 1 year but less than 3) and if your employer still refuses to pay by the time your permission to stay expires, you may qualify for a further extension. I've never heard of anyone utilising it but there is provision for 90 day extensions based on being involved in litigation.

No contract can override the labour law so your employer can't just make up a reason to fire you and the labour department is biased towards the employee in such cases.

I'll add that if the OP's employer is a farang company the labour dept will be most likely to side with the OP.

Edited November 27, 2013 by 96tehtarp

[rotary]

I was involved, as management, in a few of these cases. Sometimes the Thai labor laws support farangs but in most cases nope. It could be a hard grind to get what the law says you should and maybe not worth the trouble in the long run.

[digitalchromakey]

I was involved, as management, in a few of these cases. Sometimes the Thai labor laws support farangs but in most cases nope. It could be a hard grind to get what the law says you should and maybe not worth the trouble in the long run.

I personally know of two cases in HKT where foreigners have been successfully helped by Labour to get redundancy due and none with no successful outcome.

[Chanticlear]

Here is a very good link for employment rights:

http://www.ajarn.com/blogs/steve-crawford/teachers-rights/

It's aimed at teachers, but relevant to all who work here. The gist is, in Thailand, there are almost no laws concerning how people are fired and something like 7 parts of the law concerning termination. Thailand has much better termination laws for employees than the US does, where most employment is "At Will".

Good luck!

[Estrada]

Been there, done that.... Don't take any notice of the armchair experts in this forum with no actual first hand experience, that tell you otherwise. The Labour Courts will definitely side with you and insist that you get paid your full compensation of 3 months. Secondly, do not think that if you are on, say a two year fixed term Contract, then the Company does not have to pay you compensation. TYCO International were forced to pay up to 10 months compensation when the 2 to 5 year Employment Contracts they had with their Expats and Thai staff were completed. The reason being, it doesn't matter what is in the Employment Contract you may have signed, Thai Labour Laws take precedence. Thirdly, if they try to make you resign, do not pay your salary on time or come up with some misdemeanour that they say you committed, the court can see that this is a case of constructive dismissal and you will get your compensation.

I worked 2 years and got 3 months compensation. In my case I wrote a letter requesting payment of 3 months compensation attaching a copy of the Thai Labour Law and they settled out of court. The other employees had to take them to the Labour Court, but the cases were settled very quickly.

[pacovl46]

If they fire you they have to pay you and your work permit will expire. You have 7 days to cancel the work permit unless they do it for you. As soon as your work permit expires your visa will expire, too, because it's tied to the work permit.

[salapau]

Carry on working, don't say a word but find another more reliable job.

[lyanika]

Thank you for the - useful - informations!

I don't have any contract.

I think, I will wait 2 weeks before my visa will expire and if they don't want to provide the required documents, I will send them a reminder, that I can show later at the labor department to prove I was ready to extend the visa and it was not my fault.

The problem at the labor department is understanding. I speak a little bit thai, but they don't speak any english. Probably I will have to take a thai person with me to help.

I know if my visa expire, I have to return my work permit and leave Thailand. But in this case I would make a visa run and get a 30 days tourist "visa". I will need a brake, I don't want to work for few months.

[Mario2008]

If they fire you they have to pay you and your work permit will expire. You have 7 days to cancel the work permit unless they do it for you. As soon as your work permit expires your visa will expire, too, because it's tied to the work permit.

Employment ends means you permisison to stay in the country also ends that day, if you are on en extension of stay based on employement.

[tyler2208]

if they don't pay you what they owe, your only avenue is to pursue them through the thai labour court which is free (for foreigners too as long as you have/had a correct work permit).

It would be a long process, but you would win for sure.

[AjarnMartin]

Been there, done that.... Don't take any notice of the armchair experts in this forum with no actual first hand experience, that tell you otherwise. The Labour Courts will definitely side with you and insist that you get paid your full compensation of 3 months. Secondly, do not think that if you are on, say a two year fixed term Contract, then the Company does not have to pay you compensation. TYCO International were forced to pay up to 10 months compensation when the 2 to 5 year Employment Contracts they had with their Expats and Thai staff were completed. The reason being, it doesn't matter what is in the Employment Contract you may have signed, Thai Labour Laws take precedence. Thirdly, if they try to make you resign, do not pay your salary on time or come up with some misdemeanour that they say you committed, the court can see that this is a case of constructive dismissal and you will get your compensation.

I worked 2 years and got 3 months compensation. In my case I wrote a letter requesting payment of 3 months compensation attaching a copy of the Thai Labour Law and they settled out of court. The other employees had to take them to the Labour Court, but the cases were settled very quickly.

I agree! I worked for a regional labour office and they were always on the side of the employee unless there were circumstances which meant that the employer was justified in their actions such as theft, contract misdemeanours, etc. surprising in the LoS, but TRUE!

[Ulic]

Start with asking for the full 3 months, negotiate down to two if they pay up front and with no fuss.

If they are looking to pay nothing no loss going the Thai labour law route. Put feelers out for a new

job.

[laocowboy2]

I believe that the Labour Department will support you in such a case. You are entitled to 90 days severance (employed more than 1 year but less than 3) and if your employer still refuses to pay by the time your permission to stay expires, you may qualify for a further extension. I've never heard of anyone utilising it but there is provision for 90 day extensions based on being involved in litigation.

No contract can override the labour law so your employer can't just make up a reason to fire you and the labour department is biased towards the employee in such cases.

D. is correct. The Labour Department is supportive - and has teeth.