Anti-government protests spread to Thai provinces

[Sceptict11]

One could argue the protests represent "democracy" in action !

Name one, just one, "democratic" Western State which would allow/tolerate the freedom of expression permitted here in Thailand

[Rob8891]

Suthep on Tuesday called for the creation of an unelected administration to run the country,...:

basically not a bad idea, considered how 'well' democracy and elected governments function in thailand. but the question is: who will select this administration?

i am sure that suthep would imagine that either he would be a part of the selection team or any body near to his party - and that is would be a total non-starter and lead only to more upheveals in the future.

maybe it would be the best if the UN would administer thailand for a while? or at least select the (thai) people administering thailand?

I think the best way forward would be to hire Singapore to run Thailand. Given the cost of corruption to Thailand, the country could pay a significant management fee to the Singapore government, and everyone would be better off.

Singapore is a republic.. No good.. devolve Scotland and let Britain take it.. Boris for governor.

No too many shagging opportunities would mean he would have little time left to rule - wait a minute isn't that what is happening at the moment .

When will the Thai people learn they need to elect a government that is approved by the army and serves the interests of the sino-Thai elite or else have a coup and perpetual elections until that result is achieved. At least Thaksin has meant the ordinary folk have got a few more crumbs off the rich man's table and are unlikely to lose them come government of any hue and sterling is nearly 52 baht which is better than for a long time.

Nonsensical post! Thaksin and his clique have skimmed and pocketed vast sums through corruption.... that's money that should have benefitted the poorer people.

As for the 52 baht pound, How is it good for Thailand... that is a weakened currency, so imports will cost more and exports be worth less. How in this screwed-up world is that helping the ordinary Thai folk? This mess, and the falling baht, is all about corruption, - corruption spelt with a capital T.

[craigt3365]

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[dru2]

The word is Anti Democracy protests not anti government protests. The South is a very good example of how good a job the democrats can do when they are in fact elected. Suthep is already preparing the bomb vests.

The Muslim south is not a Democrat stronghold and you know that.

Actually he probably doesn't know it. His posts show a general ignorance of Thailand and things Thai, indicating probable residence in rural Isaan with a redshirt wife or girlfriend. He very likely couldn't identify the Muslim provinces of the south or find it on a map, and he certainly doesn't know why Satun, the Thai province with the highest Muslim population in the country - more than 80% - is not part of the emergency. I suspect he is just tragically dumb.

Edited November 27, 2013 by dru2

[hc.sandbergen]

Article quote, "The billionaire tycoon-turned-politician is adored by many of the country's rural and urban working class. But he is reviled by many in the elite and the middle classes, who accuse him of being corrupt and a threat to the monarchy"

Quite funny this should be said... the rural and working guy have no money(or at least have to work very hard for it)...yet they don't accuse this current Gov't... but the ones who "revile" him are the middle class and the Elite(rich)... hmm...someone see something wrong with this picture? seems like someone's complaining because they are not getting their piece of the pie anymore... its like the teachers who have been working in the thai gov't school for 10 years up making just in salary alone, 50-60,000 b per month alone and still exercise their corrupt manners when it comes to extra classes and special programs... so the reviled ones really will only do injustice further to this country and to the working class and rural people who already suffer alot already... so i wish and hope their attempts will fail...reminds me of the idiots who sat at the airport for a long time... i think these guys just like to have a get together once in a while and want to partake of the new things, 'such as the airport' and now monument square or whatever its called... hehe Thai Social'ism" hehe

As far as I know something about the Thai society, I agree with CMUIC, only if the government is doing what you want it is called democracy and otherwise it is corrupt??

[kirk0233]

A defiant Suthep on Tuesday called for the creation of an unelected administration to run the country, in the clearest indication yet that the demonstrators are seeking to suspend the democratic system.

Suthep wants to be a dictator or does he want an absolute monarchy? No wonder Thailand is politically hopeless; idiots like him want to dismiss democracy and elections when any problem requires too much thought, debate or compromise. Just demonstrate in the streets, run public servants out of buildings that supposedly serve the electorate and declare a dictatorship. Suthep’s reasoning: Thais are too stupid to support the government he wants. What outrageously shameful disrespect of Thais and Thailand. I cannot believe he has supporters.

Yes, it is interesting...what does he want? But just as interesting, what would help to get out of this current cycle of short governments forced out through protest? Or even to be in a position where a good government could prosper and strip away those layers of corruption from top down? Could it be that Thailand has to forego democracy for a while in order to end up with a real one later? Who could be trusted with the interim? The military? Lottery? Appointees? Many options - no good ones - but its all going to happen again and again unless something is done.

I don't believe Thailand can learn the patience democracy requires by foregoing it for the short-term stability of dictatorship. There is very little chance for true democracy in the life of a Thai when free speech is not allowed due to the computer crime act and lese majeste. Additionally, the government unrelentingly assaults Thais with the mantra of king, Buddhism and country in the attempt to shape all into the leadership's view of Thai-ness; a passive citizen who knows his place in the hierarchy, which is determined by karma. Thais have not been allowed to know their own history and build on it; so how can they keep from repeating political mistakes of the past or know whose leadership to trust when so much about the past and present is distorted to meet the needs of those in control? I don't think a dictator would change the system to allow for the greater freedom of thought and speech that is necessary to prepare most Thais for true democracy. My hope for Thailand lies with the electorate, not a dictator.

[VegasVic]

The word is Anti Democracy protests not anti government protests. The South is a very good example of how good a job the democrats can do when they are in fact elected. Suthep is already preparing the bomb vests.

Very true! Perhaps Yingluck should entertain the sale of all lands south of phuket to Malaysia and then deport suthep and his band of merry revelers down to the new Maylasia colony This would certainly kill two birds with one stone, both Suthep and his anarchists and the muslim problem as well

[jdinasia]

4)BKK is not a province

I guess then the Bangkok governor is out of a job

By the way there is areport in Thailand today thread that Rayong city hall is occupied

Bangkok is a "special administrative district"

If you understood exactly what you had written you would not have tripped yourself up. Provinces do not (currently) get to elect their governors ...those are all appointed from the central government. Bangkok being a special administrative district has direct elections of the governor. Pattaya is also a special administrative district inside of Chonburi.

[beautifulthailand99]

I think the best way forward would be to hire Singapore to run Thailand. Given the cost of corruption to Thailand, the country could pay a significant management fee to the Singapore government, and everyone would be better off.

Nonsensical post! Thaksin and his clique have skimmed and pocketed vast sums through corruption.... that's money that should have benefitted the poorer people.

Singapore is a republic.. No good.. devolve Scotland and let Britain take it.. Boris for governor.

No too many shagging opportunities would mean he would have little time left to rule - wait a minute isn't that what is happening at the moment .

When will the Thai people learn they need to elect a government that is approved by the army and serves the interests of the sino-Thai elite or else have a coup and perpetual elections until that result is achieved. At least Thaksin has meant the ordinary folk have got a few more crumbs off the rich man's table and are unlikely to lose them come government of any hue and sterling is nearly 52 baht which is better than for a long time.

As for the 52 baht pound, How is it good for Thailand... that is a weakened currency, so imports will cost more and exports be worth less. How in this screwed-up world is that helping the ordinary Thai folk? This mess, and the falling baht, is all about corruption, - corruption spelt with a capital T.

They have all robbed the little folk - when I say Thaksin was marginally better than the rest I mean he gave 30 baht heathcare, loans for villagers, crack down on drugs - his mistake was to try to claim the spoils on the table for his own family rather than share the spoils as had been the past. Governments post-Thaksin will make sure there are a few more crumbs for the deserving poor rather than ignored as in the past. As for 52 baht pound - of course it is not good for Thailand but as I am about to spend 2 months here I might as well celebrate small mercies.

Edited November 27, 2013 by beautifulthailand99

[rwdrwdrwd]

The word is Anti Democracy protests not anti government protests. The South is a very good example of how good a job the democrats can do when they are in fact elected. Suthep is already preparing the bomb vests.

Very true! Perhaps Yingluck should entertain the sale of all lands south of phuket to Malaysia and then deport suthep and his band of merry revelers down to the new Maylasia colony This would certainly kill two birds with one stone, both Suthep and his anarchists and the muslim problem as well

As with tragickingdom (and on the basis that you believe his comment to be 'very true'), it sounds like you need to research what consists of the South of Thailand, and where troubles exist with separatism (the three provinces far down in the Deep South). Surat Thani, the province associated most with Suthep (and the province containing Koh Samui), is further north than Phuket. Inferring that there is any relation between these two distinct and unrelated groups of people that both happen to dislike the current government (or in one of the cases, any Thai government) is entirely illogical and simply displays a lack of knowledge regarding either of the problems.

Edited November 27, 2013 by rwdrwdrwd

[PeterSmiles]

4)BKK is not a province

I guess then the Bangkok governor is out of a job

By the way there is areport in Thailand today thread that Rayong city hall is occupied

Bangkok is a "special administrative district"

If you understood exactly what you had written you would not have tripped yourself up. Provinces do not (currently) get to elect their governors ...those are all appointed from the central government. Bangkok being a special administrative district has direct elections of the governor. Pattaya is also a special administrative district inside of Chonburi.

But Pattaya is nowhere counted as a province , while Bangkok is on the list of 77 Provinces, regardless of which website you look it up.

http://www.statoids.com/uth.html

http://faorap-apcas....and/thaimap.htm

http://en.wikipedia....ces_of_Thailand

[Emptyset]

Khon Kaen?

Our always red posters will find it hard to swallow that.

Wow. And I actually thought that Issan had become some sort of Orwellian red dictatorship where people offering even the slightest dissent towards the views of Thaksin are routinely packed off for re-education in the red shirt schools and that anyone who holds alternative views would be terrified of expressing them lest they be subject to a visit from 'PTP enforcers'. But what do you know? Turns out the tradition of dissent and protest is actually flourishing up there! Rather makes me think that I've been taking the opinions of some posters on here too seriously.

You mean KK ,,, the same place the reds stopped a train heading for the South? and seized the provincial offices? (can't remember if they burned that set of buildings or not.)

Your tongue-in-cheek response does little this time to point out that Thaksin and his merry hoods have lost the support they once had. That does not mean that the redshirt movement is not there any more, just diminished and not as fixated on Thaksin. If they get rid of the likes of Jatuporn and Nuttawut etc along with the Thaksin blight I think the swing nationwide will be in their favor.

I'd be happy if what you say in the last paragraph comes to pass. Rumour is that for whatever reason Thaksin is no longer funding the red shirt movement. Obviously it's a rumour, but it fits with lower numbers at protest. I find it a bit strange, now that you'd think he needs them more than ever. But maybe many people have reached tipping point when it comes to TS and he knows that. I note even Chaturon was saying earlier that PT has a dilemma regards its relationship with Thaksin and needs to find 'new balance' regards its relationship with him.

Obviously I'd think any repositioning would be in appearance only. You're not going to see any genuine shift in relationship whilst Thaksin still provides much of the funding. But it's interesting that this topic has even come up, when at the last election the message was clear: 'Thaksin thinks. PT does'. Obviously at that point making Thaksin campaign focal point obviously still won them more support than it lost them, but what if that were to start swinging in the opposite direction? Has it already reached that point?

[fasteddie]

Phuket Provincial Hall ‘occupied’ by 2,000-strong anti-govt mob

This morning's protest. Photo: Bukit Sonny

PHUKET: -- As part of an apparently well coordinated national push, about 2,000 people from all walks of life – but all opposed to the government of PM Yingluck Shinawatra – this morning “occupied” Phuket Provincial Hall.

The occupation, with the mob taking over the grounds but barred from going into the building itself, is an echo of the happenings in Bangkok where huge anti-government crowds have occupied a number of government ministries.

The leader of the Bangkok protests, Democrat Party deputy leader Suthep Thaugsuban last night called for all ministries to be occupied, and for government opponents in the provinces to occupy provincial halls.

The Bangkok Post quoted him as saying, "I'm asking Bangkok people to do like I did, at the Finance Ministry, at all remaining ministrie, and for people in the provinces to do it at provincial halls and to tell officials not to serve the Thaksin regime anymore," he said.

"We have to do it simultaneously tomorrow [today], otherwise we will have no chance of victory."

It is not yet clear how many provincial halls around the country have been besieged, though it is reported that in addition to Pahuket those in Trang, Satun and Nakhon Sri Thammarat were occupied this morning.

ASTV Online reported that police in Songkhla Province had called for reinforcements as crowds approached the provincial hall there.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-provincial-hall-%E2%80%98occupied%E2%80%99-by-2-000-strong-anti-govt-mob-43095.php

-- Phuket News 2013-11-27

At 20,000baht a time, don't suppose they can afford more than 2,000.

[jdinasia]

But Pattaya is nowhere counted as a province , while Bangkok is on the list of 77 Provinces, regardless of which website you look it up.

http://www.statoids.com/uth.html

http://faorap-apcas....and/thaimap.htm

http://en.wikipedia....ces_of_Thailand

Nobody stated Pattaya was a province (it isn't, it is a special administrative municipality inside of Chonburi)

Your Statoids page clearly states that there are 76 provinces and then the Special administrative district (BKK) (actually it says there are 75 and then the revision adds Bueng Kan (split from NongKhai in 2011)

Your wiki source says this right at the beginning --- Thailand is a unitary state which consists of seventy-six provinces (changwat) and one special administrative area representing the capital Bangkok.

and your faorap source is flawed --- "Bangkok metropolis"

I concede that you will find tons of references saying 77 provinces -- but they will all be wrong like that wiki source is that claims BKK is a "de facto" province. Provinces do not elect their governor (yet) but BKK does. It is hard enough to have this discussion with a Thai but the answer is simple. When you write a letter to someone in BKK you do not use T. A. and J,(angwat) , why? Because Bangkok is not a Jangwat. A Thai from Prawet in BKK never ever says he is from Prawet, J. BKK ... they say BKK.

Go study civics in a Thai university, eventually you will get it, if you don't have lazy teachers

[jdinasia]

You mean KK ,,, the same place the reds stopped a train heading for the South? and seized the provincial offices? (can't remember if they burned that set of buildings or not.)

Your tongue-in-cheek response does little this time to point out that Thaksin and his merry hoods have lost the support they once had. That does not mean that the redshirt movement is not there any more, just diminished and not as fixated on Thaksin. If they get rid of the likes of Jatuporn and Nuttawut etc along with the Thaksin blight I think the swing nationwide will be in their favor.

I'd be happy if what you say in the last paragraph comes to pass. Rumour is that for whatever reason Thaksin is no longer funding the red shirt movement. Obviously it's a rumour, but it fits with lower numbers at protest. I find it a bit strange, now that you'd think he needs them more than ever. But maybe many people have reached tipping point when it comes to TS and he knows that. I note even Chaturon was saying earlier that PT has a dilemma regards its relationship with Thaksin and needs to find 'new balance' regards its relationship with him.

Obviously I'd think any repositioning would be in appearance only. You're not going to see any genuine shift in relationship whilst Thaksin still provides much of the funding. But it's interesting that this topic has even come up, when at the last election the message was clear: 'Thaksin thinks. PT does'. Obviously at that point making Thaksin campaign focal point obviously still won them more support than it lost them, but what if that were to start swinging in the opposite direction? Has it already reached that point?

I know you get people's goats Empty, but you are by far one of the more fair posters around.

I think the swing has already begun and hard! Th problem is that without an alternative party to the PTP folks with their Thaksin funding there will not likely be enough bleed off from the reds to matter if they can hold onto at least one major coalition partner. It would certainly water it down and let the smaller partners put bigger snouts in the trough, but I do not think that the swing will be wide enough without some decent pro-farmer, pro-Thailand, and pro-development leader comes on the scene right now!

In my years here I have met a few people that have everything that is needed (other than money) to step up, but they have made other life decisions that I respect (2 are activist monks and the other is with an NGO.) All three have the personal charisma but I do not think any of them have the stomach for politics. The only other that I have met I rule out just because he is military. I know that I should get past that but I think the days of men that made anything more than a comfortable living whilst in the military, going into politics, should be over.

Maybe out there there is another person. Perhaps an academic with the connections and experience and the name that would keep him/her safe from the corruption......

[Thai at Heart]

Why add the caveat "thai" to provinces.

Which international provinces could it spread to?

TIt serves to inform readers the protests have spread from Bangkok's Districts further and into the provinces.

NB: if you research the function of a caveat, then the use of the word 'Thai' acts as a qualification or clarification of the facts and is therefore correctly used. The article is passively warning the troubles have spread from Bangkok & its districts and into the provinces.

Caveat stems from Latin and is essentially a warning....

• Caveat lector ("let the reader beware")
• Caveat emptor ("let the buyer beware")
• Caveat venditor ("let the seller beware")

Tourists to Thailand may well take heed regarding travel, being aware the Thai provinces are now affected.

It's not in the original article and we are by definition reading the "Thai" news. Someone does it incessantly in this forum.

Thai police, Thai academics, Thai army....

Yes of course, because this is the thai news section.

[DtemJai]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/thai-protests-widen/901824.html

[DtemJai]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/video/thai-protests-widen/902096.html

[wolf5370]

A defiant Suthep on Tuesday called for the creation of an unelected administration to run the country, in the clearest indication yet that the demonstrators are seeking to suspend the democratic system.

Suthep wants to be a dictator or does he want an absolute monarchy? No wonder Thailand is politically hopeless; idiots like him want to dismiss democracy and elections when any problem requires too much thought, debate or compromise. Just demonstrate in the streets, run public servants out of buildings that supposedly serve the electorate and declare a dictatorship. Suthep’s reasoning: Thais are too stupid to support the government he wants. What outrageously shameful disrespect of Thais and Thailand. I cannot believe he has supporters.

Yes, it is interesting...what does he want? But just as interesting, what would help to get out of this current cycle of short governments forced out through protest? Or even to be in a position where a good government could prosper and strip away those layers of corruption from top down? Could it be that Thailand has to forego democracy for a while in order to end up with a real one later? Who could be trusted with the interim? The military? Lottery? Appointees? Many options - no good ones - but its all going to happen again and again unless something is done.

I don't believe Thailand can learn the patience democracy requires by foregoing it for the short-term stability of dictatorship. There is very little chance for true democracy in the life of a Thai when free speech is not allowed due to the computer crime act and lese majeste. Additionally, the government unrelentingly assaults Thais with the mantra of king, Buddhism and country in the attempt to shape all into the leadership's view of Thai-ness; a passive citizen who knows his place in the hierarchy, which is determined by karma. Thais have not been allowed to know their own history and build on it; so how can they keep from repeating political mistakes of the past or know whose leadership to trust when so much about the past and present is distorted to meet the needs of those in control? I don't think a dictator would change the system to allow for the greater freedom of thought and speech that is necessary to prepare most Thais for true democracy. My hope for Thailand lies with the electorate, not a dictator.

I don't disagree - however, this is saying what you believe will not work - is that then inferring there is no option other than a continual cycle as I said. Thailand isn't a new democracy - it has had coup after coup and lately protests forcing early elections or attempting to. There is no will to change at the top - no one that has such will, will get the chance. There is no real will in the people for all out revolution - not enough of the people. At some point the damage being done to the country by corruption and greedier and greedier fat cats, will become terminal.

[Thai at Heart]

A defiant Suthep on Tuesday called for the creation of an unelected administration to run the country, in the clearest indication yet that the demonstrators are seeking to suspend the democratic system.

Suthep wants to be a dictator or does he want an absolute monarchy? No wonder Thailand is politically hopeless; idiots like him want to dismiss democracy and elections when any problem requires too much thought, debate or compromise. Just demonstrate in the streets, run public servants out of buildings that supposedly serve the electorate and declare a dictatorship. Sutheps reasoning: Thais are too stupid to support the government he wants. What outrageously shameful disrespect of Thais and Thailand. I cannot believe he has supporters.

Yes, it is interesting...what does he want? But just as interesting, what would help to get out of this current cycle of short governments forced out through protest? Or even to be in a position where a good government could prosper and strip away those layers of corruption from top down? Could it be that Thailand has to forego democracy for a while in order to end up with a real one later? Who could be trusted with the interim? The military? Lottery? Appointees? Many options - no good ones - but its all going to happen again and again unless something is done.

I don't believe Thailand can learn the patience democracy requires by foregoing it for the short-term stability of dictatorship. There is very little chance for true democracy in the life of a Thai when free speech is not allowed due to the computer crime act and lese majeste. Additionally, the government unrelentingly assaults Thais with the mantra of king, Buddhism and country in the attempt to shape all into the leadership's view of Thai-ness; a passive citizen who knows his place in the hierarchy, which is determined by karma. Thais have not been allowed to know their own history and build on it; so how can they keep from repeating political mistakes of the past or know whose leadership to trust when so much about the past and present is distorted to meet the needs of those in control? I don't think a dictator would change the system to allow for the greater freedom of thought and speech that is necessary to prepare most Thais for true democracy. My hope for Thailand lies with the electorate, not a dictator.

I don't disagree - however, this is saying what you believe will not work - is that then inferring there is no option other than a continual cycle as I said. Thailand isn't a new democracy - it has had coup after coup and lately protests forcing early elections or attempting to. There is no will to change at the top - no one that has such will, will get the chance. There is no real will in the people for all out revolution - not enough of the people. At some point the damage being done to the country by corruption and greedier and greedier fat cats, will become terminal.

Change will come from someone with a far more altruistic ideology than Thaksin. Switching one bunch of dodgy politicians for another bunch of dodgy politicians is hardly progress.

The sheep's clothing has slipped off Thaksin I think

[Smokemachine]

Today also have anti-goverment rally inside Phichit province.

CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE
Anti-government protests spread to provinces


Trang

BANGKOK: -- Residents of several provinces joined the anti-government campaign on Wednesday by rallying in front of their provincial city halls and demanding governors and officials stop serving Yingluck government and go on strike.

Security was intensified with police deployed and gates locked in preparation for the gathering. However, there were no reports of chaos or violence. The protesters were seen giving flowers to representatives of the provincial authorities, who came out to receive them.

Most of the provinces in which people actively joined the campaign were in the southern region, s stronghold of Democrat Party, which is leading the anti-government protests.

They were: Krabi, Nakhon Si Thammarat, Chumphon, Yala, Ranong, Satun, Songkhla, Pattalung, Surat Thani and Trang.

Khon Kaen and Saraburi also witnessed a strong turnout of protesters.

In Bangkok, Suthep Thaugsuban, leader of a mass rally aimed at "rooting out the Thaksin regime", led a march to the Department of Special Investigation on Chaeng Wattana Road in one of the marches to other ministries.

Suthep said state officials should "stop being a tool for the Thaksin regime".


-- The Nation 2013-11-27

But all these regions are in the South.........so what! When we see them start up in Chaing Mai and Isaan, then it will mean something. Till then, all we can say to these silly mobs is "Have fun" because you are wasting your time if you cannot win an election by voting.

[Emptyset]

You mean KK ,,, the same place the reds stopped a train heading for the South? and seized the provincial offices? (can't remember if they burned that set of buildings or not.)

Your tongue-in-cheek response does little this time to point out that Thaksin and his merry hoods have lost the support they once had. That does not mean that the redshirt movement is not there any more, just diminished and not as fixated on Thaksin. If they get rid of the likes of Jatuporn and Nuttawut etc along with the Thaksin blight I think the swing nationwide will be in their favor.

I'd be happy if what you say in the last paragraph comes to pass. Rumour is that for whatever reason Thaksin is no longer funding the red shirt movement. Obviously it's a rumour, but it fits with lower numbers at protest. I find it a bit strange, now that you'd think he needs them more than ever. But maybe many people have reached tipping point when it comes to TS and he knows that. I note even Chaturon was saying earlier that PT has a dilemma regards its relationship with Thaksin and needs to find 'new balance' regards its relationship with him.

Obviously I'd think any repositioning would be in appearance only. You're not going to see any genuine shift in relationship whilst Thaksin still provides much of the funding. But it's interesting that this topic has even come up, when at the last election the message was clear: 'Thaksin thinks. PT does'. Obviously at that point making Thaksin campaign focal point obviously still won them more support than it lost them, but what if that were to start swinging in the opposite direction? Has it already reached that point?

I know you get people's goats Empty, but you are by far one of the more fair posters around.

I think the swing has already begun and hard! Th problem is that without an alternative party to the PTP folks with their Thaksin funding there will not likely be enough bleed off from the reds to matter if they can hold onto at least one major coalition partner. It would certainly water it down and let the smaller partners put bigger snouts in the trough, but I do not think that the swing will be wide enough without some decent pro-farmer, pro-Thailand, and pro-development leader comes on the scene right now!

In my years here I have met a few people that have everything that is needed (other than money) to step up, but they have made other life decisions that I respect (2 are activist monks and the other is with an NGO.) All three have the personal charisma but I do not think any of them have the stomach for politics. The only other that I have met I rule out just because he is military. I know that I should get past that but I think the days of men that made anything more than a comfortable living whilst in the military, going into politics, should be over.

Maybe out there there is another person. Perhaps an academic with the connections and experience and the name that would keep him/her safe from the corruption......

Thanks for the complement JD. It's a pleasure to argue with those who genuinely want to explore points of disagreement rather than simply score points (tho I know we're all guilty of this and other such silliness at times, and I reluctantly count myself amongst those prone to that occasionally lol). Anyway, despite our somewhat divergent opinions on the ruling party and the red shirts, I think we're in broad agreement that the solution to Thailand's political impasse should be democratic, and forward looking, rather than simply a revertion to previous authoritarian forms. I think most people who are at least somewhat familiar with Thailand's history, yourself included, realize that Thailand's government has been unelected and authoritarian throughout most of the 20th century, interspersed with occasional attempts at democracy until the military steps back in to restore 'order'. Usually the posters calling for an unelected government justify it by saying the Thai people aren't ready for democracy and need to be properly educated before they're allowed to have a say in things. Well, if they're still not educated enough for democracy after over 80 years (since the 32 revolution) of mostly dictatorial governments, I don't see why anything would change in that respect now.

Thanin actually claimed to believe in Swedish style social democracy but said it would take 12 years of dictatorship before Thai people were ready for that to be implemented. And in the one year he was allowed in power he ran the most right-wing dictatorship in Thailand's history, during which he wanted to have Democracy Monument demolished and was pushing for the execution of the 18 Thammasat student leaders that were jailed after the 76 massacre. Thousands of books perceived to be too liberal for the Thai people were burned and then banned. This wasn't some military thug either, this was a highly educated gentleman who graduated from LSE. I give this as just one example of the sort of people who've believed that Thai people needed educating before they were ready for democracy...

Anyway, you and I no doubt are agreed upon that and I'm also in full agreement with you that the last thing Thailand needs is more politicians from military or police backgrounds. There are lots of well educated* idealistic people out there who could definitely make a difference, and it's a shame that there aren't more of them in the parliament. At local level all parties are controlled by hierarchical networks and cliques, and it's hard for someone outside that to break in. Same goes for the highest levels, if you're not someone with connections or an established reputation, then you're not likely to become an MP. I really hope another party, a party of ideals rather than just a political patronage network, breaks the stranglehold the main two parties have. Can't see anyone except the Democrats winning in the South at this point, but there's hope in the rest of the country.

I'd like to see the Commoners' Party do well in the next election, but I realize that the ideals they've set out might be too radical for many people. The point is though that they've actually bothered to set out some ideals and the concrete action they say they're going to take to support those ideals. The standard thing for most parties seems to be talk very vaguely about commitments to democracy and the like without any real idea of what that means. Like Thai at Heart said, it'd be good for Thailand to have definite left leaning and right leaning parties, defined along lines of genuine ideological disagreement.

In the past, there was also the Farmer Network Party who I hoped would do well, but never managed to gain a seat. They were mentioned in a recent Prachatai article which discusses this very topic, the prospect of forming alternative political parties. Their best hope seems to be from the party list system. By focusing on that, as Chuwit did, a small new party might hope to garner enough votes countrywide to get one or two MPs. Red Sunday leader Sombat says in the article: “I’m having trouble now. I don’t know who to vote for and I don’t know what to do. It’s a crisis in life,” He said. “If there is an alternative political party which offers similar, or even better policies, I’d like to give it a try.”

So there's definitely a desire there amongst the liberal left that are more red aligned. But that's obviously not going to amount to that many people countrywide. I'd also like to see a new liberal conservative party set up which could challenge the Democrats and maybe also pick up some seats in the North and NE, where, as I've said before, I don't think the Democrats stand to win many seats. Even if they did choose someone considered more acceptable than Abhisit, they're still considered by many to be elitist party, and moreover, a party of the South. In my view, the ideals they'd set out would be similar to those espoused by someone like Anand. Liberal, i.e. committed to civil rights, free press, constitutional rule and the like, but also conservative in the sense it avoids both populism and radicalism and is still committed to more or less preserving the status quo and what Yunla described in another thread as 'Thailand's cherished traditions' (or similar words). There was talk of Somkid Jatusripitak leading exactly such a party with major funding, but for some reason it hasn't happened.

Still though, I think there's another thing we might agree on. At least rural people are no longer passive, whether from the South or N/NE, they're playing much more of an active role now. And in that alone, there's hope...

*And needless to say, education needn't necessarily be from the academy, there are also autodidacts out there who may be even more capable than those who're from privileged backgrounds and have studied abroad. It's rare because there isn't that tradition amongst the working class in Thailand of educating yourself through reading, like there is (or rather was) in, say, the UK. When there have been working class intellectuals and political leaders in Thailand's history, they've usually been killed or jailed.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Emptyset

[craigt3365]

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[jdinasia]

@Emptyset (didn't want the long quotes)

The only actual answer I see coming is "more of the same" in one way or another. I fully expect the NACC/courts to create another constitutional crisis by (properly?) ruling that the 312 should be impeached. I also think that rather than allow the Dems to run things or finding some other odd way to create a caretaker government, that a "National Unity" government will be put in place and yet another new charter installed.

There is always hope for a brighter tmw and I cling to that. The biggest issue is that the only people capable of ridding the country's political system of the regional power brokers are likely as bad as the problem itself. I do feel that strong changes in holding people accountable in office very quickly is vital! yes I mean VERY quickly! When things change in Thailand it could be awful if there are not checks and balances. I would rather not have the scale tipped towards a Thanin again ..... though there are worse ways it could tip in the long run! What I was alluding to earlier may be the only way forward.

[VegasVic]

The word is Anti Democracy protests not anti government protests. The South is a very good example of how good a job the democrats can do when they are in fact elected. Suthep is already preparing the bomb vests.

Very true! Perhaps Yingluck should entertain the sale of all lands south of phuket to Malaysia and then deport suthep and his band of merry revelers down to the new Maylasia colony This would certainly kill two birds with one stone, both Suthep and his anarchists and the muslim problem as well alt=clap2.gif width=31 height=25>

As with tragickingdom (and on the basis that you believe his comment to be 'very true'), it sounds like you need to research what consists of the South of Thailand, and where troubles exist with separatism (the three provinces far down in the Deep South). Surat Thani, the province associated most with Suthep (and the province containing Koh Samui), is further north than Phuket. Inferring that there is any relation between these two distinct and unrelated groups of people that both happen to dislike the current government (or in one of the cases, any Thai government) is entirely illogical and simply displays a lack of knowledge regarding either of the problems.

Not at all my friend, I am fairly well versed with political anarchist types like suthep, and by the way these are not politically disparate groups as you are trying to paint them. You might very well find 5 people from Nakon Ratchasima and 2 or 3 people from Chiang Mai among sutheps followers, but that in no way infers the feelings of the majority of Thais in those areas When I stated that Yingluck should sell off all the lands south of Phuket to Malaysia, I was being generous to those with businesses in the Phuket-Krabi areas, personally I have no use for Phuket and would like to see Yingluck sell everything south of Prachuap Khiri Khan to Malaysia This certainly would alleviate many of Thailands problems especially with the muslim radiclas many of whom are amongst sutheps band of marauders It's time to bring on the riot police and military police to gas those who have illegally taken control of the government buildings and start making arrests, then have a forced march down the maylay peninsula to Songkhla for the rest of them, let those from Surat Thani hitch their way back!. I think it is time that the government of Thailand make a firm stand against this type of nonsense or else it will continue to happen every 3 or 4 years!

[rwdrwdrwd]

and by the way these are not politically disparate groups as you are trying to paint them

This certainly would alleviate many of Thailands problems especially with the muslim radiclas many of whom are amongst sutheps band of marauders

Do you have any evidence at all that this is true, outside of your own imagination?

Edited November 28, 2013 by rwdrwdrwd

[louse1953]

Just went to the Municipal Hall Building in Udon Thani to get a passport for the girlfriend of my buddy. Police have it blocked off and there are demonstrators. I do not know specifically what time they showed up.... We went at 1pm.

Surin the same.People have had enough,openly talking about Takky no good.Finally, after 10 years of telling em.

[nong38]

Anti Government protests reported at Nakhon Sawan Municipality today.

[LomSak27]

Demonstrators also rallied outside at least a dozen provincial halls mainly in the opposition's southern heartlands

Thats the Nation for you ... the Democratic Party is working hard to unseat the reds while The Nation gives the story a good airbrushing. Yawn

[thaijett]

"A defiant Suthep on Tuesday called for the creation of an unelected administration to run the country, in the clearest indication yet that the demonstrators are seeking to suspend the democratic system.

"If we demolish the Thaksin regime ... we will set up a people's council which will come from people from every sector," he said. "Then we will let the people's council pick good people to be the prime minister and ministers."

What a crock, the Government was elected by the majority of the people, if Suthep had won the election, would he be stepping down, when those who didn't vote for him had a protest?

I don't think so !!