Breaking News: Constitutional Court Nullifies Elections

[ando]

Thailand is a developing country. We shouldn't expect them to be on par with wealthy western nations in such things as industry,infrastructure and education. They are going to make some mistakes as they strive to catch up with the west no matter who is in government. We shouldn't be too critical of them for trying. Turn the clock back 50 or so years and look at our own "superior " western societies and I am sure at least some of us here will see some parallel. I really feel we should be supporting the Thai people in trying to better themselves instead of mocking and ridiculing them.

[sriracha john]

I really feel we should be supporting the Thai people in trying to better themselves instead of mocking and ridiculing them.

I wholeheartedly agree. I deeply respect Thai people and can think of only a precious few that are deserving of our mocking and ridicule.

[ColPyat]

Having no foresight to anticipate a need to pre-brief students on the adjustments they will have to make shows the entire program WAS absolutely faulty. To send them off without proper resources for counselling and screening, it was a disaster waiting to happen due to the level of stress they were thrown into. The suicide merely reflected the extreme to what should have been expected when faced with this type of new life for students that had no prior exposure. It shows that true educational experts were not involved in the planning of the program and that the program was hastily pasted together... a trait of most Thaksin's programs.

These students are pre-briefed. They have to attend a training course lasting two or three months before leaving Thailand. This is one suicide out of hundreds, maybe thousands of students sent abroad. Sad as it is, but please don't blow it out of proportion.

People do commit suicide for a variety of reasons, and you can't make anyone responsible for an individual's decision. Students under this program have the opportunity to return if they cannot adjust. It is not the fault of the government if students put themselves under so much stress to succeed that some may collapse. Yes, it would have been better if there would have been more counselling etc, but this is hindsight.

Even in western countries the rate of student suicides has been rising steadily. Increasing competition with all its side effects simply is a fact of modern life, like it or not.

It boils all down to the same thing - yes, we already know that many of Thaksin's populist programs have not been thought through enough, but he did have programs to develop the rural poor. No previous government ever had any program directed at the rural poor. If these governments would have done what they were supposed to do - Thaksin would have had no chance to come up.

And i am still missing any consequent policies presented by the opposition parties. I do not see them communicating anything to the people.

What are they doing?

[stumonster]

it is off the topic concerning the constitutional court , but why was ther no proposal to create a world class university here in thailand ?

and colypat , did your niece achieve her scholarship with out the patronage of any influence?

[ColPyat]

it is off the topic concerning the constitutional court , but why was ther no proposal to create a world class university here in thailand ?

and colypat , did your niece achieve her scholarship with out the patronage of any influence?

My ten year old niece - patronage!?

Her parents don't own land, or even the house they are living in. Her dad is a day laborer, a hired fieldhand. And, no, her parents are neither TRT members, nor do they vote TRT.

She was always exceptionally bright, always the first in class, won regional spelling and mathematics competitions every year, and was because of her abilities picked by her teachers for her scholarship.

[Plus]

There are not thousands of overseas scholarships, numbers are not that big, besides sending kids to study overseas can hardly be called a "reform".

Thailand had it's National Education Reform Act adopted under Democrats, and they did all they had to do according to the plan, on time. It's when Thaksin came in the reform went astray.

The first thing was dividing the country into education zones (with decentralisation in mind).Suwit Kunkitti, Thaksin's protege at the MoE, openly clashed with the then Education Minister Kasem Wattanachai over the number of the zones - according to the Reform there had to be 400+ zones, Suwit wanted a lot less - only 170. This way the Education Ministry could still keep a close tab on every zone and thus keep all the power centralised. In addition to that Suwit insisted on placing certain kids in certain universities, Kasem refused, Suwit insisted. After having his taste of real TRT politics Kasem resigned, the first Education Minister in TRT-1 governement, only three months in its term. He's a Privy Councilor now.

Thaksin defused the tension by taking education portfolio himself, and then passing it on to Suwit two months later. The rest is history. Five years later and we have a massive teachers rallies against decentralisation, and in effect against the reform itself. Teachers' only point, though, is that local governing bodies are too corrupt and too incompetent to take charge of education.

That links Education Reform failure to the general failure to decentralise power and nurture local governing bodies, and goes hand in hand with Thaksin's overall goal of having total and complete control over everything and everyone in this country. Farmers will improve their productivity and competitiveness? Not until Thaksin tells them exactly how. Poverty reduction? The only way is Thaksin's own Ad Samat method.

It would be nice if Thais tried to improve their lives and their country for the better. Unfortunately Thaksin wouldn't let them - he's got to do it himself.

And don't forget the Education Ministers who followed after Suwit, like ex-commerce minister Adisai Boodaramik who generated lots of headlines in his term. I loved his plan to replace math and science classes with music and art because Thai kids study too much, and if they "play" a little more, their math will improve significantly.

>>>>>>>>>

Ah, the memories... The way TRT run this country for the past five years sometimes makes me really sick.

[ColPyat]

Ah, the memories... The way TRT run this country for the past five years sometimes makes me really sick.

Yes, i do agree that the way TRT has ruled the country can make one sick.

But, please lets not forget that these idiocies have a long tradition here, and won't stop easily. It will take a very long time before there will be anything resembling a working democracy and a fair society here.

For a starter - we need the other political parties presenting policies. So far i have not seen them coming up with any policy, and i have not seen those parties adressing the people in order to show that they can do something for them. It won't help if you or me believe that the Democrats can do a better job - they need to convince the people that they can do that - otherwise nobody is going to vote for them, and even if they get in, they will only with the traditional weak coalitions that won't achieve anything.

We already know that there will be new elections. When the <deleted> will they finally start coming up with a vision on Thailand's future, and policies they are going to implement?

[Sandstone Art]

Now, this is getting deeper into the elections on 2nd April....

ELECTION SCANDAL EXPLODES

Vasana flees 'TRTgate'

EC chief flies to Sydney as details of massive poll fraud emerge; Thaksin faces five-year ban from politics if guilty

The embattled Elec-tion Commission (EC) yesterday came under intense pressure after an investigative panel implicated the Thai Rak Thai Party in major electoral fraud that could see the party dissolved and its leader Thaksin Shinawatra banned from politics for five years.

The EC, in hot water since the Constitution Court nullified the April 2 snap election earlier this week, now must respond swiftly to its panel's recommendation that Thaksin be charged for "hiring" small parties to contest the April 2 vote.

The offence, allegedly committed to get around an electoral rule requiring candidates running without opposition to receive at least 20 per cent of all votes cast, is punishable by the party's dissolution. Article 69 of the Constitution also bans executives of the dissolved party from forming a new party or holding office in another party for five years.

The panel's report, containing damning details, bank transaction evidence as well as compelling testimony from witnesses, was submitted to EC chairman Vasana Puemlarp on Monday. Vasana left for Sydney, Australia last night, saying he wanted to visit his son who is studying there. He is scheduled to return on Tuesday.

The report implicates key Thai Rak Thai figures, dealing Thaksin another severe political blow. It contains explicit details about how Thai Rak Thai leaders allegedly approached the heads of the small parties and devised a scam to change official information on party membership registration in order to allow unqualified candidates to run as Thai Rak Thai "competitors" in the April 2 election. The report details various occasions when money was paid to the parties' leaders and the candidates.

Talking to reporters over the phone while he was resting at his fruit orchard in Chanthaburi, Vasana said he could not comment as he had not yet read the report. "Please do not ask me about work. It is not convenient as I am upcountry. Wait till I'm back at work. I have not read the investigation files,'' he said.

Thaksin declined to comment on what has been labelled "TRTgate".

The panel's findings sent the Thai Rak Thai Party into turmoil. Deputy spokesman Pimuk Simarot said the findings were just a preliminary investigation and the EC had yet to further investigate and conclude the case. Deputy leader General Thamarak Isarangura and deputy secretary Pongsak Raktapongpaisal, who were implicated in the alleged fraud, are preparing information to defend the party.

"Our party is not involved in the allegation," Pimuk said. "The allegation is directed at individuals. The people accused must clarify themselves."

EC secretary-general Ekachai Warunprapa asked how the panel's findings were leaked to the media.

Ekachai said he could not confirm whether what was leaked to the media was in fact the findings of the panel. The EC is expected to discuss the case on Tuesday.

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said the commissioners must meet and discuss the case as soon as possible.

Asked to respond to Vasana's allegation that he had evidence that the main opposition party had paid small parties to boycott the election, Abhisit said he did know where Vasana was able to find any evidence.

General Trairong Inthratat, a specialist attached to the Army, said he was ready to give a statement to the EC if summoned. He said it had been alleged money for small parties was handed out outside the defence minister's office at Sanam Luang. The ministry has already told the EC's panel that according to security officials no MP candidates from small parties entered the compound.

Trairong however refused to say whether he went to the Thai Ground Party's headquarters. Witnesses who gave statements linking him to the alleged fraud gave conflicting testimonies, he said.

"I am just a toy being used to link Thai Rak Thai Party executives, especially the defence minister [to the alleged fraud]. This is a mess."

Caretaker Senator Sak Korsaeng-ruang said the EC must take immediate action against Thai Rak Thai leaders implicated in the alleged fraud discovered by the EC's panel because the case has solid evidence, including witnesses. "The chief investigator in the case is a Supreme Court vice president. I do not believe that anyone can influence or meddle in the case,'' he said.

Sak said the EC cannot try to dispute the findings by saying key witnesses reversed statements. "Investigators normally believe that the first statements by witnesses carry more weight because they have not yet been forced to reverse their statements,'' he said.

Sak said society is waiting for the EC to explain why it dissolved only small parties and had so far let large parties off the hook.

Atthayuth Butrsripoom

Bancha Khaengkhan

The Nation

[womble]

Now it's starting to get interesting.

We all know that at the very least the EC and leading TRT figures involved in this scandal should be barred from any future involvement in politics. In any western country if found guilty they would almost certainly find themselves in prison, and rightly so.

The funny thing is TRT's downfall has been completely of it's own making, it seems they believe they are covered in teflon. Looking back historically to other corrupt regimes throughoutthe world, the endings are always explosive, nothing lasts forever.

Thaksin was extremely clever, and his manipulation of the checks and balances to serve his own ends was very well excecuted. In five years he managed to almost totally silence the media, more or less control the upper house, and put cronies into all the positions that could have made him accountable for his missdeeds.

I believe his biggest mistake was thinking he was untouchable. The arrogance of so many of his moves have become his undoing, for him the huge increase of shin was not enough, he had to have all that $$$ tax free, and that says it all really.

I think we are now seeing the end of Thaksin as a politician, in the long run this may not be a bad thing for the Thai Demorcratic system, people need to see what can happen when too much power is consolidated into one camp. The sad thing is the system to stop this was in place, the independant panels were there, but here people and their morals (or lack of) are easlily bought.

As long as those seeking a life in politics, are there only to further their own agendas and not those of the electorate, it will never change. Shame realy.

[penzman]

[sriracha john]

it is off the topic concerning the constitutional court , but why was ther no proposal to create a world class university here in thailand ?

Perhaps you were unaware that they already have one here, stu...

Shinawatra University is a top-notch, world-class school of higher learning...

Their administration building reflects the high level of achievement obtained by this distinguished university:

[sriracha john]

There are not thousands of overseas scholarships, numbers are not that big, besides sending kids to study overseas can hardly be called a "reform".

Thanks for the posting, Plus.

I've grown weary of posting to correct colpyat's factual errors and exaggerations, but I certainly appreciate your efforts to set the record straight.

[dan10400]

There are not thousands of overseas scholarships, numbers are not that big, besides sending kids to study overseas can hardly be called a "reform".

Thanks for the posting, Plus.

I've grown weary of posting to correct colpyat's factual errors and exaggerations, but I certainly appreciate your efforts to set the record straight.

I second this sentiment with regards to Plus's postings.

As for colpyat, there was a time that his posts were at times an interesting, alternative viewpoint. But after reading the same response about 50 times (the democrats have no policy/plans, the PAD mob blocked the entrance to Paragon - horrors!, etc.), you kinda hope for someone to kick the record player because it just seems to spin there in the same track....

[ColPyat]

As for colpyat, there was a time that his posts were at times an interesting, alternative viewpoint. But after reading the same response about 50 times (the democrats have no policy/plans, the PAD mob blocked the entrance to Paragon - horrors!, etc.), you kinda hope for someone to kick the record player because it just seems to spin there in the same track....

Very nice tone in your post.

Than give me the Democrat's policies, please.

And tell me where and how they communicate them to the people.

[ColPyat]

There are not thousands of overseas scholarships, numbers are not that big, besides sending kids to study overseas can hardly be called a "reform".

Thanks for the posting, Plus.

I've grown weary of posting to correct colpyat's factual errors and exaggerations, but I certainly appreciate your efforts to set the record straight.

I just googled a bit: the number i found there is 500 students overseas that are going to be extended to one per district, meaning thousands in the future.

So, if you go back to my post, i made no factual error, as i posted: "hundreds, maybe even thousands".

Can we get back to a more polite conversation, please.

[ando]

The offence, allegedly committed to get around an electoral rule requiring candidates running without opposition to receive at least 20 per cent of all votes cast, is punishable by the party's dissolution. Article 69 of the Constitution also bans executives of the dissolved party from forming a new party or holding office in another party for five years.

The Nation

I'll believe it when I see it.

An unauthenticated leaked report to a very biast anti-Thaksin newspaper does not necessarily amount to conclusive evidence.

Still, -- where theres smoke theres fire. And there is bound to be something in this. No doubt there will be some casualties, but I would be surprised if Thaksin were one.

[dan10400]

As for colpyat, there was a time that his posts were at times an interesting, alternative viewpoint. But after reading the same response about 50 times (the democrats have no policy/plans, the PAD mob blocked the entrance to Paragon - horrors!, etc.), you kinda hope for someone to kick the record player because it just seems to spin there in the same track....

Very nice tone in your post.

Than give me the Democrat's policies, please.

And tell me where and how they communicate them to the people.

I would guess the tone of the post depends on your perspective. I try not and leave any posts smelling like red herrings though.

So now, as many times before regardless of the issue at hand, you ask for the democratic party's policies - and how they are communicated to the people.

Well, how about hold the TRT to the same criteria. Other than sound bites that become poorly implemented policy such as:

- "30 baht health care scheme" with totally unsound financing and hospitals

withdrawing from the program to stave off bankruptcy.

-"war on corruption" or should it be the wary by corruption since most of

those involved already have their fingers dirty.

So where is the TRT policy? How are the TRT policies communicated to the people other than through buying votes and stifling the media? The TRT has pretty much had free reign over the last five years - what is there really to show for it? Don't even need to touch the endless controversies surrounding Thaksin to prove that although the democratic party may not be some well-oiled machine, the TRT is hardly qualifies either once you get past what you tout as policy - I would label soundbites.

"polite" discussion is not just what might be directly written or inferred through the tone of a post. It is actually acknowledging anothers points, holding yourself to the same standards, not just responding with something inane that effectively brings the discussion back to square one again. Insert a little balance into your posts, acknowledge the inputs of others (which I even gave you that) and maybe you won't elicit such tones.

Edited May 12, 2006 by dan10400

[Plus]

The existence and the overall conclusions of the report have been known to media for a few days already, maybe The Nation just got the hard copy first, or decided to go public before others.

This is turning into the biggest issue in Thailand's recent history. Are we really on the brink of dissolving Thai Rak Thai? It's going to be even bigger than Thaksin share trial.

There are all sorts of legal steps and options published in The Nation and it looks pretty straightforward, but are we going to see the full-blown trial with all the witnesses and all the evidence presented to the Court?

There will be no end to it, even though it looks very very promising at the moment.

This will be another litmus test of Thai collective conscioseness. People voted for Thaksin even when they knew he was a crook, will the keep voting for TRT even if they know that it engaged in bribery and is ought to be dissolved?

So far about 60% of the population consistently ignores any moral considerations when they vote. Will they do it again?

Will they pay for it?

[ColPyat]

I would guess the tone of the post depends on your perspective. I try not and leave any posts smelling like red herrings though.

Thanks, may you remember that as well when you post, please.

The TRT does communicate to the people, and especially to the rural poor by a very elaborate grassroots network. Every Mu Ban in the north and north east has regular meetings in which locally active TRT members transmit government policies. One TRT activist is generally responsible for ten families.

In adition to that Thaksin makes very clever use of the media, such as his radio program. He also does, when he speaks to the poeple, use a simple colloquial Thai that uneducated people do understand easily.

Reducing Thaksin only to an old style dictator that buys votes, oppresses people and disables the media is plain stupid, and leads to underestimating the dangererous situation Thailand is in now. If you like it or not - he has managed to build up vast genuine support under the rural poor, and he has done that by doing what no politician has done before in Thailand to this extend - by regularly speaking to the people in a language they can understand, and by building up a constant presence in the villages.

He provides for those people's immediate needs (and yes, before you say it, i am aware that he ruins the country, and usually provides by not thought through knee jerk programs).

Point being: while the other governments ruled from Bangkok confident of the apathy of those village folks, Thaksin went straight to them to get popular support.

So far, i do not see any attempt by the main opposition parties to claim any sort of popular support there.

The danger being: if Thaksin is removed, even if legally, that might very possibly cause huge discontent in those villages.

To make it more clear: we come close to a nasty catch 22 situation - a continued rule of Thaksin will damage the country enormously, but a removal of Thaksin might damage the country even worse.

This situation was of course brought on by Thaksin in the first place, but contributing factor has been the inability of the other parties to change into parties that represent the people.

We see now the result of decades of mismanaging the country by corrupt politicians.

[Plus]

I don't think that any party will be able to repeat Thaksin's success with the villagers, ever. Don't nurture some false hopes that Democrats will come up with some magic ideas and replace Thaksin in farmers' hearts. It won't happen.

They will remain cocooned in a time warp, much like those Russians marching with portraits of Stalin. Thaksin will remain their ideal, the symbol, sweet memory, first true love forever.

The country will have to live through it, eventually get over it. It's like a broken heart, only time will heal.

[ando]

As I said. I will believe it when I see it.

Assuming a worst case scenario for TRT where their party was dissolved and Thaksin plus all the other senior executives were banned from politics for 5 years, --- wouldn't that put the Democrats into government by default at the up coming election? A government virtually without an effective opposition. A government with minority support and elected in haste by a quirk of the legal system. For those who place their trust in the Democrats and believe they are all that is good in Thailand, this may seem a fitting solution. For me, I believe that for any democracy to function effectively they need a strong opposition to keep them honest. If TRT were to be virtually wiped out overnight, it may give some anti-Thaksin supportrs some joy, but I don't think it would be a good thing for the country. What if the disenfranchised majority were to simply to vote "NO"?

[Arsenal]

The Economist latest edition has an interesting editorial on the Thai political crisis headed "A Sinking Ship- When you tear up the rule book democracy flounders".

It poses a number of questions about future elections.Here is one.

"Will the opposition participate fully and pledge to respect the otcome of the vote(which they should do, even though the contest may well end in another victory for Mr Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai, the party which to the horror of the Bangkok "democrats". most other Thais seem to like)?"

and again

"once you start allowing demonstrators who number in thousands to throw out politicians who have been elected by millions. the fabric of any democracy is bound to fray..."

The Economist is no fan of Thaksin but the point being made is important.Oddly (or perhaps not) the concern is not really reflected in views expressed on this forum.In case somebody interjects to query the Economist's inside knowledge of Thailand, let me just say I have personal knowledge of the people and resources available to the Economist -and they are various, impressive and formidable.

[ColPyat]

I don't think that any party will be able to repeat Thaksin's success with the villagers, ever. Don't nurture some false hopes that Democrats will come up with some magic ideas and replace Thaksin in farmers' hearts. It won't happen.

They will remain cocooned in a time warp, much like those Russians marching with portraits of Stalin. Thaksin will remain their ideal, the symbol, sweet memory, first true love forever.

The country will have to live through it, eventually get over it. It's like a broken heart, only time will heal.

Well, what if those people "cocooned in a time warp" get really pissed off?

You have already seen that they are not exactly opposed to violence, you wanna wake the sleeping tiger?

People have swallowed a lot of things for a very long time here. That does not automatically mean that they are going to keep doing that forever. What is set here is a perfect condition for a possible civil war. Count a few more factors in, for example a possible economial collapse, the demise of the only moral authority Thailand has, and things might change in a way that we might sit here in a few years down the line and reminescend about the good times we had under Thaksin.

The opposition parties have to come up with a way to decrease the brooding social tensions, best would be if they finally manage to come up with some sort of positive vision for Thailand's future and how to fight poverty. If they can't - they are even less fit to govern than Thaksin.

[ando]

I don't think that any party will be able to repeat Thaksin's success with the villagers, ever. Don't nurture some false hopes that Democrats will come up with some magic ideas and replace Thaksin in farmers' hearts. It won't happen.

They will remain cocooned in a time warp, much like those Russians marching with portraits of Stalin. Thaksin will remain their ideal, the symbol, sweet memory, first true love forever.

The country will have to live through it, eventually get over it. It's like a broken heart, only time will heal.

I don't think the farmers support Thaksin because they hold some ideal of Starlinist communism. Or, that they like toiling 12 hours a day , 7 days a week for only about a quarter of the national wage. I think they support Thaksin because he is the only politician who has given them any hope of bettering their own lives and that of their kids. The rural poor still hold the balance of power re sheer number of voters and any political party that ignores the majority of voters in a democracy is doomed to fail. The Democrats will have to decide for themselves if they want to get elected through popular support.

[ando]

I don't think that any party will be able to repeat Thaksin's success with the villagers, ever. Don't nurture some false hopes that Democrats will come up with some magic ideas and replace Thaksin in farmers' hearts. It won't happen.

They will remain cocooned in a time warp, much like those Russians marching with portraits of Stalin. Thaksin will remain their ideal, the symbol, sweet memory, first true love forever.

The country will have to live through it, eventually get over it. It's like a broken heart, only time will heal.

Well, what if those people "cocooned in a time warp" get really pissed off?

You have already seen that they are not exactly opposed to violence, you wanna wake the sleeping tiger?

People have swallowed a lot of things for a very long time here. That does not automatically mean that they are going to keep doing that forever. What is set here is a perfect condition for a possible civil war. Count a few more factors in, for example a possible economial collapse, the demise of the only moral authority Thailand has, and things might change in a way that we might sit here in a few years down the line and reminescend about the good times we had under Thaksin.

The opposition parties have to come up with a way to decrease the brooding social tensions, best would be if they finally manage to come up with some sort of positive vision for Thailand's future and how to fight poverty. If they can't - they are even less fit to govern than Thaksin.

ColPyat,

The rural poor will never rise up in civil war. They have neither the time or resources to do so even if they thought they could. The revolution will come through democracy at the ballot box. Historically, proportions as small as 10% of the population have been able to oppress 90% of populations. Democracy is a great leveler of inequity. A poor farmers vote is as good as someone like Sondhis in a democracy. Thailand will get there eventually.

[penzman]

I don't think that any party will be able to repeat Thaksin's success with the villagers, ever. Don't nurture some false hopes that Democrats will come up with some magic ideas and replace Thaksin in farmers' hearts. It won't happen.

They will remain cocooned in a time warp, much like those Russians marching with portraits of Stalin. Thaksin will remain their ideal, the symbol, sweet memory, first true love forever.

The country will have to live through it, eventually get over it. It's like a broken heart, only time will heal.

And I don't think any party can now stoop as low as TRT did in order to gain and hold on to power.

[marshbags]

I don't think that any party will be able to repeat Thaksin's success with the villagers, ever. Don't nurture some false hopes that Democrats will come up with some magic ideas and replace Thaksin in farmers' hearts. It won't happen.

They will remain cocooned in a time warp, much like those Russians marching with portraits of Stalin. Thaksin will remain their ideal, the symbol, sweet memory, first true love forever.

The country will have to live through it, eventually get over it. It's like a broken heart, only time will heal.

Well, what if those people "cocooned in a time warp" get really pissed off?

You have already seen that they are not exactly opposed to violence, you wanna wake the sleeping tiger?

People have swallowed a lot of things for a very long time here. That does not automatically mean that they are going to keep doing that forever. What is set here is a perfect condition for a possible civil war. Count a few more factors in, for example a possible economial collapse, the demise of the only moral authority Thailand has, and things might change in a way that we might sit here in a few years down the line and reminescend about the good times we had under Thaksin.

The opposition parties have to come up with a way to decrease the brooding social tensions, best would be if they finally manage to come up with some sort of positive vision for Thailand's future and how to fight poverty. If they can't - they are even less fit to govern than Thaksin.

................................................................................

.............................................................

Why are you always looking for trouble and violence from the opposition to the trt. C.P.

If there is a possibility of this it will have been orchestrated and will have been instigated by your friend and his band of thieves.

Regarding your post with the following in it. quote:-

The TRT does communicate to the people, and especially to the rural poor by a very elaborate grassroots network. Every Mu Ban in the north and north east has regular meetings in which locally active TRT members transmit government policies. One TRT activist is generally responsible for ten families.

unquote.........................................................................

..........................................

Local people are bribed, threatened and brainwashed by local leaders with vested interests and on the trt payroll.

quote:-

In adition to that Thaksin makes very clever use of the media, such as his radio program. He also does, when he speaks to the poeple, use a simple colloquial Thai that uneducated people do understand easily.

unquote.........................................................................

...............................

Press censorship, Thai baht / bribes and double edged promises along with threats to take it away from anyone who does not support him and his party.

quote:-

Reducing Thaksin only " to an old style dictator that buys votes, oppresses people and disables the media is plain stupid, "

unquote.........................................................................

.........................

It seems to me you,ve described your defuncted leader to a tee and you are spot on if you delete the first 3 words and the Thai people are far from stupid and awakened.

The s**t is really starting to hit the fan now don,t you think. he he heeeeeeeee

Many of T.visa along with myself posted along these lines long ago when it first started and people like you said no chance.

Bet you don,t think that today, if you are honest with yourself, if that,s at all possible.

Just maybe you will come to your senses, face reality and finally concede ??????????

But then again maybe not in this life time.

marshbags

Edited May 12, 2006 by marshbags

[Plus]

I think they support Thaksin because he is the only politician who has given them any hope of bettering their own lives and that of their kids.

And so did Stalin - he gave them hope, he led them through a war, he promised bright future.

I've never spoken to any stalinist, but by the looks of those people on TV they keep him in their hearts more as a memory of their youth and childhood hopes rather than for any real effect on their lives. He died 50 year ago, afterall.

Well, what if those people "cocooned in a time warp" get really pissed off?

I don't think the country should be held hostage to those pissed off farmers. I don't think people will allow to keep it hostage to farmers' feats of rage. The army and the police will surely step in - they don't have any sentimental attachments to Thaksin.

The violence so far has been orgnised, not spontaneous, and it recieved wide condemnation. I don't see it growing out of control, let alone a civil war.

If TRT is dissolved its members will have to join other parties or set new ones. I think the courts will accomodate them and set the election date as late as possible. They've been thinking about accomodating TRT defectors anyway. You can't let crooks join the show just to keep the semblance of normalcy. The King has already called it "mua" once, surely people have enough decency not to do the same thing again.

I don't know what the outcome will be, but in honest people's eyes TRT is damaged beyond repair. This is not hiding shares, this is outright bribery and tampering with official records - EC's database.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Plus

[ColPyat]

Local people are bribed, threatened and brainwashed by local leaders with vested interests and on the trt payroll.

Just maybe you will come to your senses, face reality and finally concede ??????????

Concede to what exactly? Please be more coherent, you have completely lost me.

And if you think that Thaksin achived his success by bribes and threats than you should spend some time in those villages and speak with pro Thaksin villagers. These people may be "brainwashed", but the opposition has made this not exactly difficult by not making an appearances in the villages and presenting their counter arguments.

They treat the villagers like they have always treated them - simply ignore them and their needs.

[ColPyat]

And so did Stalin - he gave them hope, he led them through a war, he promised bright future.

I don't think the country should be held hostage to those pissed off farmers. I don't think people will allow to keep it hostage to farmers' feats of rage. The army and the police will surely step in - they don't have any sentimental attachments to Thaksin.

The violence so far has been orgnised, not spontaneous, and it recieved wide condemnation. I don't see it growing out of control, let alone a civil war.

I don't think either that the country should be held hostage by a potentially violent social class. But to avoid that we need an opposition that does what they are supposed to do, and unforunately do not. It also needs a government that Thailand never yet had - a government that cares for its citicens.

Comparing Stalin with Thaksin is a bit out of order though. Staling killed millions in his Gulags. There is a slight difference.