Learning meditation with no religious inclinations

[ultimate weapon]

I figured that this forum would be the most appropriate since i suppose buddhism encourages practioners to also do meditation.

I am not a buddhist so i don't really want to get into the religious aspect of it like the chanting of omm and you know all the religious chanting but more of just meditation for what it is.

I hope to improve my concentration, feel better about myself do ppl that constantly meditate feel happier? Do they see the world in a different light?

Do you need a teacher/guru to aid you or can you just do this yourself at home?

[fabianfred]

Vipassana meditation is all about mindfulness and being present in the moment. It leads to wisdom to see things as they really are. One does not have to be of any particular religion to practice it. My teacher said that it would make a Christian a better Christian, a Muslim a better Muslim ,etc.

The meditation retreats in Thailand which cater to foreigners do not require one to be a Buddhist.

Edited November 30, 2013 by fabianfred

[ultimate weapon]

Vipassana meditation is all about mindfulness and being present in the moment. It leads to wisdom to see things as they really are. One does not have to be of any particular religion to practice it. My teacher said that it would make a Christian a better Christian, a Muslim a better Muslim ,etc.

The meditation retreats in Thailand which cater to foreigners do not require one to be a Buddhist.

Looks like you need to be taught by a guru to be able to meditate using this style.

I don't think i could ever actually find the time nor have the patience to actually see someone to teach me how to meditate i rather find information from the internet and try it at home.

Is meditation just basically siting still and just letting one's mind be empty without any thoughts interrupting for as long as possible and that it isn't really so easy so most ppl either listen to some type of music or chanting a word om for example in short to force the mind to prevent it from wandering and that someone that has reached the pinacle of meditation doesn't need any chanting or music but just simply sits there with his mind empty for hours?

[fabianfred]

This is a basic intro to meditation

this is deeper and very insightful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CynlCyLMQ9Y

[Traxster]

All you need is you,a quiet place and a desire/want/ need to be alone with your thoughts.

Then sit and relax,physically and mentally.

[fabianfred]

All you need is you,a quiet place and a desire/want/ need to be alone with your thoughts.

Then sit and relax,physically and mentally.

That is just relaxation....not meditation.

Meditation is try to ignore thoughts and allow the mind to rest....not just letting the mind wander and getting caught up in thoughts.

As a famous master...Ajarn Chah said... Like a still forest pool...when the surface becomes still and undisturbed one can see beneath the surface things which are not apparent usually...into the depths...where all kinds of strange creatures dwell.

Thinking keeps the mind disturbed....not concentrated.

[rockyysdt]

Looks like you need to be taught by a guru to be able to meditate using this style.

I don't think i could ever actually find the time nor have the patience to actually see someone to teach me how to meditate i rather find information from the internet and try it at home.

Is meditation just basically siting still and just letting one's mind be empty without any thoughts interrupting for as long as possible and that it isn't really so easy so most ppl either listen to some type of music or chanting a word om for example in short to force the mind to prevent it from wandering and that someone that has reached the pinacle of meditation doesn't need any chanting or music but just simply sits there with his mind empty for hours?

That's what I used to think.

What I've learned is that Sitting (Concentration) & Mindfulness (awareness of breath, body, mind, feelings, & the external during your wakeful day) are all about awareness.

Our practice is to focus awareness on being in the moment.

It might be a blissful state.

It might be a period of anxiety, or fear, but it isn't controlled but what has happened in the past or worrying/daydreaming about the future.

Whatever it is, our practice is to experience what is, as it is, in the present.

Many of us may live constantly with anxiety, fear, sloth, torpor, hate, avarice & many other negative states without be aware.

Many might say that concentration (Sitting) isn't very easy.

Most of them make a simple mistake.

They either think it is too hard, or they simply try to meditate.

I found when I try to meditate, I can't.

The secret is to work on the elements which facilitate meditation, such as perfecting ones posture, mindset, & breathing.

When these elements are perfected, stillness of mind comes of its own accord.

Many say there is no time.

H ow many times do we all encounter dead time on a daily basis?

Dead time during which our mind sends us into much negative thought/feeling.

Waiting in a long queue at the check out.

Waiting at the doctors surgery.

Contending with a journey on public transport.

There are many situations during which our blood pressure soars watching the interminably slow check staff fumbling around, or the customers who need a price check, or that long train ride.

All these situations are perfect for a session of practice, to focus on awareness of thought, of breath, of feeling.

Rather than being a slave to ones reactions to life (conditioning), one could be studying oneself using Mindfulness (awareness), whilst honing ones breathing skills and levels of concentration.

This is up to all of us, but we must be warned.

The hardest thing we'll find in life is to change (conditioning).

Alternatively if you just want to feel temporarily good, regularly practice yoga, gym workouts, swimming/running, appropriate diet, refrain from drugs/intoxicants.

Following this you will eventually reach a glass ceiling.

The 8 fold path will take you beyond.

Edited December 2, 2013 by rockyysdt

[ultimate weapon]

so those of you who meditate do you feel happier? Do you feel able to conentrate more?

I find that i cannot really concentrate on anything at all.

[rockyysdt]

so those of you who meditate do you feel happier? Do you feel able to conentrate more?

I find that i cannot really concentrate on anything at all.

Like any form of exercise, in the beginning we may not be very proficient.

Once you have studied the technique it's just a matter of practice.

Not even an Olympic medalist is able to achieve his/her goal without practice.

In terms of how you feel.

These states are not ones goal but simply rewards along the way.

Piti (physical) is the lowest for of rapture and is often associated with sukha (emotional).

• Weak rapture only causes erection of hair.
• Short rapture evocates some thunder "from time to time".
• Going down rapture explodes inside the body, like waves.
• Exalting rapture "makes the body jump to the sky".
• Fulfilling rapture seems to be a huge flood of a mountain stream.

[Water Buffalo]

Vipassana meditation is all about mindfulness and being present in the moment. It leads to wisdom to see things as they really are. One does not have to be of any particular religion to practice it. My teacher said that it would make a Christian a better Christian, a Muslim a better Muslim ,etc.

The meditation retreats in Thailand which cater to foreigners do not require one to be a Buddhist.

Looks like you need to be taught by a guru to be able to meditate using this style.

I don't think i could ever actually find the time nor have the patience to actually see someone to teach me how to meditate i rather find information from the internet and try it at home.

Is meditation just basically siting still and just letting one's mind be empty without any thoughts interrupting for as long as possible and that it isn't really so easy so most ppl either listen to some type of music or chanting a word om for example in short to force the mind to prevent it from wandering and that someone that has reached the pinacle of meditation doesn't need any chanting or music but just simply sits there with his mind empty for hours?

If you have 10 days you can go to a retreat.

Here's the link http://www.dhamma.org/

You can book your course on that website. The courses are free. All over the world. And pretty effective. You only need 10 days to learn the technique and then you can continue to practice at home.

It is not recommended to practice from a book.

To you last question: Vipassana meditation is accepting the reality as it is (basically, although it may be little bit more complex than just that).

It has little to do with an empty mind, but that can happen.

[Jawnie]

You need a teacher in order to learn how to meditate properly. The teacher doesn't need to be Buddhist (I recommend Buddhist meditation over Christian meditation as Christian is more contemplation, ie., thinking about various topics). Anyway, an accomplished teacher is necessary in order for you to deal with the subtle obstacles that inevitably arise. There is an 'orientation' to meditation which needs to be balanced with the 'no effort' aspect. Only an experienced teacher can help with this - it's very unlikely you can do it yourself because you'll be relying on your same mental state for advise on how to get out of that mental state, a conflict of interest, so to speak, one which the ego will win every time.

It's a little difficult to find meditation outside the religious context because that's the context it is most widely taught in. At a certain point, progress in meditation requires that you adopt, or let go of, certain beliefs about yourself and your world view. You say you want it for relaxation and concentration but meditation is much, much bigger than that so to approach it like that is somewhat limiting. In short, you can't change while thinking nothing needs to change. If your interested in relaxation and attention span, maybe yoga is better than meditation for you.

[rockyysdt]

You need a teacher in order to learn how to meditate properly. The teacher doesn't need to be Buddhist (I recommend Buddhist meditation over Christian meditation as Christian is more contemplation, ie., thinking about various topics). Anyway, an accomplished teacher is necessary in order for you to deal with the subtle obstacles that inevitably arise. There is an 'orientation' to meditation which needs to be balanced with the 'no effort' aspect. Only an experienced teacher can help with this - it's very unlikely you can do it yourself because you'll be relying on your same mental state for advise on how to get out of that mental state, a conflict of interest, so to speak, one which the ego will win every time.

It's a little difficult to find meditation outside the religious context because that's the context it is most widely taught in. At a certain point, progress in meditation requires that you adopt, or let go of, certain beliefs about yourself and your world view. You say you want it for relaxation and concentration but meditation is much, much bigger than that so to approach it like that is somewhat limiting. In short, you can't change while thinking nothing needs to change. If your interested in relaxation and attention span, maybe yoga is better than meditation for you.

Hi J.

How does one find a teacher who also isn't trapped by ego?

[Jawnie]

You need a teacher in order to learn how to meditate properly. The teacher doesn't need to be Buddhist (I recommend Buddhist meditation over Christian meditation as Christian is more contemplation, ie., thinking about various topics). Anyway, an accomplished teacher is necessary in order for you to deal with the subtle obstacles that inevitably arise. There is an 'orientation' to meditation which needs to be balanced with the 'no effort' aspect. Only an experienced teacher can help with this - it's very unlikely you can do it yourself because you'll be relying on your same mental state for advise on how to get out of that mental state, a conflict of interest, so to speak, one which the ego will win every time.

It's a little difficult to find meditation outside the religious context because that's the context it is most widely taught in. At a certain point, progress in meditation requires that you adopt, or let go of, certain beliefs about yourself and your world view. You say you want it for relaxation and concentration but meditation is much, much bigger than that so to approach it like that is somewhat limiting. In short, you can't change while thinking nothing needs to change. If your interested in relaxation and attention span, maybe yoga is better than meditation for you.

Hi J.

How does one find a teacher who also isn't trapped by ego?

Hi R. You find a teacher who isn't trapped by ego through studying and understanding the teacher's lineage and by observing the quality of the teacher's students.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Jawnie

[trd]

I would be happy to offer personal instruction over skype to anyone interested if you want to PM me. I'm based in Phuket.

[rockyysdt]

I would be happy to offer personal instruction over skype to anyone interested if you want to PM me. I'm based in Phuket.

Hello TRD.

Respectfully, up to which level can you take/assist a traveler?

[trd]

There are no levels.

[trd]

Just to add to that. When you speak of levels, I assume you are thinking of "spiritual progress" in terms of levels of attainment or a path. This is to merely perpetuate the false idea of separation which is the cause of suffering. To think of it in those terms can be a hindrance. It is always best to practice with innocence and effortlessness and be totally unconcerned about any apparently perceived progress.

Edited January 3, 2014 by trd

[rockyysdt]

There are no levels.

The Buddhas teaching of anapanasit has 16 steps within 4 tetrads.

Each tetrad involves specific practice.

Ānāpānasati

Tetrad 1 Contemplation of the body:

1. Breathing long First Tetrad

2. Breathing short

3. Experiencing the whole body

4. Tranquillising the bodily activities

Tetrad 2 Contemplation of feelings:

5. Experiencing rapture Second Tetrad

6. Experiencing bliss

7. Experiencing mental activities

8. Tranquillising mental activities

Tetrad 3 Contemplation of the mind

9. Experiencing the mind

10. Gladdening the mind

11. Centering the mind in samadhi

12. Releasing the mind

Tetrad 4 Contemplation of Dhammas

13. Contemplating impermanence

14. Contemplating fading of lust

15. Contemplating cessation

6. Contemplating relinquishment

With your approach does a practitioner progress automatically?

Edited January 3, 2014 by rockyysdt

[trd]

I"m not a buddhist.

[trd]

Do you want to wake up to your true nature or do you want to get lost in scripture and dogma?

[drpbala]

Vipassana meditation is all about mindfulness and being present in the moment. It leads to wisdom to see things as they really are. One does not have to be of any particular religion to practice it. My teacher said that it would make a Christian a better Christian, a Muslim a better Muslim ,etc.

The meditation retreats in Thailand which cater to foreigners do not require one to be a Buddhist.

Hi get more details at www.dhamma.org for various centres, an introduction to meditation and other useful info.

Wishing you all Peace!

[brimacthai]

I learned Transcendental Meditation in the 70's and still use it almost daily. Like anything the more you practice the better you get and the more it will work for you.

Going back to your original question of the best way to learn. That's really something only you can decided. Maybe the best thing is do a little research on the internet, ask the question in this forum (as you've done) and as listed above there's some great answers and ideas for you to ponder.

But at the end of the day it's really your choice... maybe you should meditate on it for a while...

[Malthus101]

Get a teacher or else who will you ask when you have questions like "should I do this" or "am I doing this right"

And you WILL ask these questions.

If you are impatient and can't concentrate, mediation will be both a challenge AND something you could really do with having in your life!

Also, if you go in wanting some results, like "will this make me happy?" you'll miss the whole point and not get what you want.

It's not about thinking. It's not about trying. It's about letting life happen in the moment just as it is. Noticing your thoughts as they happen but not being led by them, coming to realize you are not your thoughts, you are something outside of them.

There are different styles and ways to meditate.

One that is easy to learn and easy to practice, is TM or Transcendental Meditation.

It was made popular in the 60s when The Beetles went to India and learned it.

I learned it in London. Yes it works . Yes I felt calm and content after my meditation.

But sometimes you feel frustrated or tired and fall asleep. You accept it all. Keep going.

There is an official TM group. It's quite expensive to learn from them but at last you'll learn the right way.

If you can't be bothered with all the meditation...

Just start taking Modafinil.

[rockyysdt]

Get a teacher or else who will you ask when you have questions like "should I do this" or "am I doing this right"

And you WILL ask these questions.

If you are impatient and can't concentrate, mediation will be both a challenge AND something you could really do with having in your life!

Also, if you go in wanting some results, like "will this make me happy?" you'll miss the whole point and not get what you want.

It's not about thinking. It's not about trying. It's about letting life happen in the moment just as it is. Noticing your thoughts as they happen but not being led by them, coming to realize you are not your thoughts, you are something outside of them.

There are different styles and ways to meditate.

One that is easy to learn and easy to practice, is TM or Transcendental Meditation.

It was made popular in the 60s when The Beetles went to India and learned it.

I learned it in London. Yes it works . Yes I felt calm and content after my meditation.

But sometimes you feel frustrated or tired and fall asleep. You accept it all. Keep going.

There is an official TM group. It's quite expensive to learn from them but at last you'll learn the right way.

If you can't be bothered with all the meditation...

Just start taking Modafinil.

Hi Malthus.

I'm surprised you recommend TM to someone wanting non religious meditation.

When I joined a TM group, after an induction period and payment of $400 I underwent a one on one ceremony.

The teacher burnt incense and candles and performed a ritual before a picture of a guru before whispering my personal mantra which was to be kept secret.

I was told the mantra invoked the powers of a deity.

After a number of months I was told that I could undergo the next step which involved the payment of $5,000.

Once this stage was taught the progress and depth of my practice would reach much deeper levels.

The TM technique is very simple, but I find focus on following the natural long breath all the way down against the sternum with attention to the crossover from the in to the out, and following all the way out, far more powerful.

When I find that my mind has wondered I gently turn my attention to the body and relax any limbs or other parts I find have become tense.

After relaxing my body I then refocus on the breath again.

With time mindfulness of the body and breath can then extend to mindfulness of thought, and of feelings.

No fees nor the power of deities is involved nor required.

Edited January 4, 2014 by rockyysdt

[Brickbat]

Meditation is simply being who you really are. You can watch your thoughts. So you cannot be your thoughts, even though your thoughts influence your life.

Transcending thoughts ( by observing your breathing, for eg) a slow process as mind will constantly kick in, is meditation.

When you paint, play an instrument, cling to a rock face etc, you are in meditation. One pointedness, being truly in the moment, in the Now. This is not religion. ANYONE CAN DO IT.

[manawaite]

Gday all,

I run a meditation centre in Pai. Open Mind Centre - www.openmindcentre.asia

Yes, a teacher can be useful - 'even the wise need a lamp to find the jewel in the night' one teacher said after being asked this question many times... I'd go along with that. Teachers have certainly helped me take my inquiries deeper, and helped me open my practice up - in ways I may or may not have stumbled upon by chance. The human heart-mind is a huge exploration - a guide can help, at least sometimes.

'Anyone can do it' yes, anyone who wants to. Doesn't mean its all going to be easy. Also, most people find that what they expect meditation is/ can be / should be takes more than a little letting go of. A friend on the path can help us see some of these places where we inadvertently have painted our practice into a corner....

Non-dogmatic / non-'religious' teaching - its a fair concern. Yes, meditation can be taught in ways that do not require any belief system nor any membership of any kind of group. These are two qualities that I reckon characterise a 'religious' rather than a 'spiritual' teaching...

Meditation is a wonderful tool to help us open up - to what? To life as it is - exactly as many wise/ experienced people have written on this thread. Life as it is contains many qualities that we tend not to notice until we learn not to ignore them - qualities of experience we may well be looking for - peace connectedness inspiration creativity love, even - and we may be overlooking as they are right with us right now - this is all basic mindfulness training. Takes some time, like anything else worthwhile.

If you are up our way drop in. Stay for a coffee or a retreat. We have nice quiet cabins by Pai river and a supportive environment to learn in. And I teach by Skype also. We structure our retreats in ways that help westerners connect what we have learned / opened to in retreat with contemporary western lifestyles - relationships, work, family etc etc- not always so readily available in monasteries/ wats etc.

Also, if you are more interested in a 'traditional' approach, among the many fine monasteries and retreat centres available, Wat Tam Wua near Mae Hong Son offers some great teaching for westerners. You can try both ways!

If you are interested in meditation and what it might have to offer you in your life, spending a little time with it will help you assess for yourself whether / in what way it is helpful to you, personally.

Questions and comments welcome.

Mana

[RikDao]

So ham.

So on inbreath, ham (pronounced hom) on out breath.

Just repeat silently for a half hour a day. Simple as pie. Your mind will wander, just bring it back to the mantra.

See what happens.

[brimacthai]

Hi Rockyystd,

I remember some of this ceremony you mentioned...

"The teacher burnt incense and candles and performed a ritual before a picture of a guru before whispering my personal mantra which was to be kept secret.

I was told the mantra invoked the powers of a deity"

But I don't really remember anything about a deity or that there was ever any "religious" connection, talks or anything that resembled any spiritual or religious teachings. I attended the local TM centre for several years and never felt there was anything beyond the teaching and practice of meditation techniques.

The guru picture you talk about I think was/is the Maharishi Yogi, the founder of TM. I always felt the burning of incense and a polite Wai was only showing respect to the founder of what I feel is one of the best meditation techniques available... it's worked really well for me and I've been practicing TM now for more than 35 years.

My meditation often ends up in a bit of a prayer session as well. For me this works just fine.

[kaspercat]

I went to wat doi suthep and they have an English program there. Surprising the religious stuff was minimal but I was quite impressed with the training.

I would recommend it to anyone.

They run a continuous program.

http://www.fivethousandyears.org

Edited January 4, 2014 by kaspercat

[trd]

A man who was sick went to see his doctor. The doctor prescribed him some medicine and told him to take it twice a day. But he said, "Whatever you do, make sure you don't take the medicine if you think of a monkey." That's easy enough the man thought. He went home and it was time to take the medicine. But just as he was about to take it, he thought of a monkey. He tried again, but every time just before he was about to swallow it, the thought of a monkey came into his mind.

Finally he had to give up and went back to see the doctor. "Doctor, every time I go to take the medicine I think of a monkey. How can I stop myself thinking of a monkey?"

The doctor said, "That's easy. Think of an elephant."

This is how the mantra is used in TM. It is called a bija or seed mantra. Your true nature is beyond mind. It is the stillness of unbounded awareness. Mind, which is just a bundle of thoughts, is the obstacle to realising your true nature. However, it is not possible to directly supress a thought because by the time you realise you want to supress it, it has already appeared in the conscious mind. The mantra is like the elephant in the story. One particular thought is used to put the attention on in an effortless and innocent way which has the result of quietening the mind and transcending thought to arrive at the natural state. Repeated practice deepens the experience over time.