1 dead, four people shot at Ramkhamhaeng University after clashes

[elzach]

The only thing that stands out from all this mess is that the Thai people are not politically mature. Perhaps they need and/or deserve a military dictatorship.

[brit1984]

not much hope of a happy ending to this story

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Taking a step back then, what DOES he want?

And do you agree with it?

he wants Thaksin out the picture for good, no more proxy governments no more clones no more corruption.

And it seems he wants to achieve that through limiting the one-man-one-vote concept. It's hard to see how that can be achieved otherwise, as he will keep on accusing 'everyone who doesn't agree with him' as being under the influence of Thaksin. Even if Thaksin committed suicide today he would likely just find another bogeyman or 'Thaksin regime remnants' to continue his crusade against. It really wouldn't end until he has a PAD favored form of government. (i.e. something other than a parliamentary democracy in the commonly understood definition.)

Edited December 1, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Trentham]

Some posts removed. Bringing the Monarchy into the discussion is a fast way to get thrown out of here. Especially in situations like this. Use your heads.

Praying for Peace in the Kingdom today.

That's nice, but I'm praying for more and increased violence. Peace and apathy is not how a strong democracy is forged from more primitive forms of governance. Rather, it is through sacrifice and pain that societies move forward.

Thais need more, much more pain and sacrifice if they are to become a better society.

What about India with Ghandi? South Africa with Mandela. They achieved great result with a non-violence policy. There'll be a Thai eventually with empathy for the people who will bring change.

I looked up "empathy" in the English/Thai dictionary. There is no Thai word for it - just an explanation of what it means.

[GeorgeO]

I have been saying for several months that we are on the verge of civil war, never wishing for my vision to be proven correct. The only way to bring this to an end now is for the Army to take over... and for YL and her cronies to get on a plane to somewhere else...!

[tetleythedog]

"Udon Thani red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana, who is bringing 1,500 people on board 20 buses to Bangkok, claimed that former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra on Friday phoned and asked him to mobilise supporters."

Does the International media need much more proof of who really manages things here in Thailand......

There's been some serious money spent getting the northern thugs to BKK.....Thaksins getting serious now.....and he doesn't care the outcome!

"Udon Thani red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana, who is bringing 1,500 people on board 20 buses to Bangkok, claimed that former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra on Friday phoned and asked him to mobilise supporters."

Does the International media need much more proof of who really manages things here in Thailand......

There's been some serious money spent getting the northern thugs to BKK.....Thaksins getting serious now.....and he doesn't care the outcome!

Of course he doesn't...................he's not here !

[theoldgit]

Sick troll post removed.

[DocN]

All this because one evil man - Suthep - wants to escape a court appearance for mass murder.

Apologies in advance if you were merely trolling, but on its own, one of the more obtuse comments I've ever read here.

Taking a step back then, what DOES he want?

And do you agree with it?

he wants Thaksin out the picture for good, no more proxy governments no more clones no more corruption.

I am interested to hear: how will he achieve especially the last point?

He never really mapped that out, did he?

He wants elections, free of vote- buying!

He wants to end corruption!

He wants a better education system and health care!

...and I want a pony for Christmas!

He is just throwing around buzzwords and on top of that wants a non-elected government.

Sorry, but except for the last part, I am not buying it!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

There would seem to be a common denominator though

Yep. Thaksin.

"And almost half the country agrees with you. The other half does not.". What's that based on?

Next.

"And almost half the country agrees with you. The other half does not."

What's that based on?

Didn't realize this needed spelling out. Anyway: Based on the results of the last couple elections. About half the electorate think favorable about Thaksin, the rest doesn't. Largely spread along geographical lines, and urban / rural lines.

Edited December 1, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[waza]

Looks like logistics have beaten the redshirts and they are going home

They had the good sense (this time) not to burden the city with it. That means a time limited gathering. I'm not sure you prefer them to take the other option and hit town?

Right, didn't think so. And more importantly, neither do they.

824923610.jpg

Unbelievable that they can bus 70,000 peolple in and out in 24 hours....

Edited December 1, 2013 by waza

[khunsiam]

If it weren't for the presence of "you know who", Thailand would be like Cambodia 35 years ago.

Are you suggesting that the Thai Rouge would be the equivalent of the Khmer Rouge?

Yes, very much so. It's an extremely dangerous situation.

Through something resembling democracy the Red side formed a government. Taking that democratic (yet imperfect) process away for something completely undefined as Suthep (and PAD before him) is proposing will really make it like Cambodia in the dark past. Suthep is actively trying to induce a coup. It really is incredibly serious.

Is Suthep really proposing what the PAD mooted earlier (and keep in mind the PAD withdrew from this stand very quickly).

IMHO the answer is NO.

IMHO Suthep is saying; dissolving the current parliament will just trigger a rerun of all the vote buying (and the election commission is toothless and wanting) and then a return of a bought government. Therefore the need to get something else into the process as a bridge to ensure the next actual election is not bought and it not packed with nepotism stuff.

Further, IMHO Suthep is not explaining this well.

In August some die hard PAD'rs told me about the plans for the marches and guerilla-tactics to occupy the ministries, they said the PAD leaders were brainstorming and counseling and that it wouldn't take long before action. I guess Suthep was brought to the fore front later on.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I have been saying for several months that we are on the verge of civil war, never wishing for my vision to be proven correct. The only way to bring this to an end now is for the Army to take over... and for YL and her cronies to get on a plane to somewhere else...!

And the people who voted for them would also get on a plane to somewhere else?

I like posts with simple solutions. If they are truly simple. More often than not though, they're not.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Looks like logistics have beaten the redshirts and they are going home

They had the good sense (this time) not to burden the city with it. That means a time limited gathering. I'm not sure you prefer them to take the other option and hit town?

Right, didn't think so. And more importantly, neither do they.

824923610.jpg

Unbelievable that they can bus 70,000 peolple in and out in 24 hours....

xBaXPyIYCEAEVle3_jpg_pagespeed_ic_ZrhbKLsWdf.jpg

Yeah. Talk about logistics. Happy they dispersed though, nothing good would come from a confrontation and especially not with 70K people in such a small area.

[AlphMichaels]

Everyone..., listen up. I don't care if BOTH sides are steeped in corruption, which would seem to be the case, any way you look at it. The prevailing sentiment says they're both equally guilty of abuse of power and corruption. I can't speak to the level of it on either side and those who think they can are throwing out pure conjecture or event based "controversial" incidents. Sure that statement will bring the wrath of TV posters to pounce.

The only way to establish and maintain a democracy..., even when the elected party and its leaders are deemed to be corrupt..., must play out by accepting those who have been elected by the people. Whether legitimately or by virtue of them "giving back" to those who aided in their elections..., the vote of the people must stand until 'next elections' come about.

The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin but everyone wants to say so. It was also about Abhisit who, may I remind readers, has been indicted for murder. In fact the bill was aimed to pardon combatants going all the way back to 2004. There are MANY who the amnesty bill would have exonerated and on both sides of this divide., IMHO, for all the right reasons. Let the past remain in the past and work on the present, then the future.

Aung San Suu Kyi who just happens to have a good handle on the matters of the SE Asian populace in matters like these said something a few years ago that really stuck with me. Forgive me if I misquote...., "It's not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power corrupts the people who have it and fear of power corrupts those who are subject to it".

I know how to solve this once and for all. Thailand is comprised of some 23 million people...., over 2/3 live in the rural countryside. Send all those who protest the current "majority elected" government to the north for rice harvest. Let them toil in the fields for 30 days, living a subsistence lifestyle and caring only about their families, a place to sleep and food in their stomachs. Let them wear the mud of the fields on their feet and hands. Let them bathe from a bucket or cistern. Let them sleep on the floor and feel the frigid temperatures of December & January. Let them forage for food from the fields they til and harvest.

Short of that highly unlikely scenario, what has begun again (I fear) will be far worse than what we saw in 2010. And it saddens me for the masses who deserve a better way of life. Suthep's epitaph may not read well in the years to come and he has placed the people of Thailand in grave danger. I question his love for all the people of Thailand.

And so it begins..., again. I sense with far reaching consequence that can only damage a country and its people who I love. This could be a new chapter that will be a very bad one for Thailand.

[Carrerakiss]

I am just glad I don't live in bangkok, can you imagine having to get around that crazy place? The traffic must be a nightmare.

I was there yesterday. Went by taxi from Sukumvit to Impact Arena and then out to Suvarnabhumi. No real traffic problems at all. Saw quite a few protesters walking on the pavement in the Ramkemhaeng area, other than that, nothing.

Guess it depends exactly where you are.

[whybother]

I have been saying for several months that we are on the verge of civil war, never wishing for my vision to be proven correct. The only way to bring this to an end now is for the Army to take over... and for YL and her cronies to get on a plane to somewhere else...!

The army taking over is probably what would lead to civil war.

[smedly]

What a beautiful bright sunny morning - Unfortunately one young boy won't be waking up this morning to see it.

Somewhere in that stadium on this bright sunny morning is a murderer with a gun shoved down his waistband enjoying this beautiful sunny morning feeling very happy with himself that he shot and murdered that young unarmed boy - evil is what evil does.

Rest in Peace

[whybother]

Everyone..., listen up. I don't care if BOTH sides are steeped in corruption, which would seem to be the case, any way you look at it. The prevailing sentiment says they're both equally guilty of abuse of power and corruption. I can't speak to the level of it on either side and those who think they can are throwing out pure conjecture or event based "controversial" incidents. Sure that statement will bring the wrath of TV posters to pounce.

The only way to establish and maintain a democracy..., even when the elected party and its leaders are deemed to be corrupt..., must play out by accepting those who have been elected by the people. Whether legitimately or by virtue of them "giving back" to those who aided in their elections..., the vote of the people must stand until 'next elections' come about.

The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin but everyone wants to say so. It was also about Abhisit who, may I remind readers, has been indicted for murder. In fact the bill was aimed to pardon combatants going all the way back to 2004. There are MANY who the amnesty bill would have exonerated and on both sides of this divide., IMHO, for all the right reasons. Let the past remain in the past and work on the present, then the future.

Aung San Suu Kyi who just happens to have a good handle on the matters of the SE Asian populace in matters like these said something a few years ago that really stuck with me. Forgive me if I misquote...., "It's not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power corrupts the people who have it and fear of power corrupts those who are subject to it".

I know how to solve this once and for all. Thailand is comprised of some 23 million people...., over 2/3 live in the rural countryside. Send all those who protest the current "majority elected" government to the north for rice harvest. Let them toil in the fields for 30 days, living a subsistence lifestyle and caring only about their families, a place to sleep and food in their stomachs. Let them wear the mud of the fields on their feet and hands. Let them bathe from a bucket or cistern. Let them sleep on the floor and feel the frigid temperatures of December & January. Let them forage for food from the fields they til and harvest.

Short of that highly unlikely scenario, what has begun again (I fear) will be far worse than what we saw in 2010. And it saddens me for the masses who deserve a better way of life. Suthep's epitaph may not read well in the years to come and he has placed the people of Thailand in grave danger. I question his love for all the people of Thailand.

And so it begins..., again. I sense with far reaching consequence that can only damage a country and its people who I love. This could be a new chapter that will be a very bad one for Thailand.

"The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin but everyone wants to say so."

The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin, but the problem with it was that it included Thaksin. If it hadn't included Thaksin, it may well have passed, and Thailand wouldn't be where it is now.

edit: btw. Thailand is comprised of 65 million people.

Edited December 1, 2013 by whybother

[Ricardo]

How is this all not just universally labeled "Suthep's fault"? He got what he wanted, and then continued to add fuel to the fire of the protesters. It is obvious that his motive is to cause mayhem/death/chaos in the country.

How is this all not just universally labelled "Thaksin's fault" ? He didn't get what he wanted, so continued to add fuel to the fire by ordering the bussing-in of the Red-Shirts. It is obvious that his motive is to cause mayhem/death/chaos in the country.

There are two sides here, at this point one can only hope that it cools down, and nobody else gets hurt.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Ricardo

[EricBerg]

I have been saying for several months that we are on the verge of civil war, never wishing for my vision to be proven correct. The only way to bring this to an end now is for the Army to take over... and for YL and her cronies to get on a plane to somewhere else...!

The military can't run the country either. They found that out after the last coup. So there will be elections again.

The most voters are in the north/northeast. The people there had an average income-raise of about 40% when the missunderstood fugitive was pm and helped the country out of the crisis (and of course fill his own pockets bigtime). He was the first politician to treat the people there with respect.

That bought him unconditional support so far. And the people will not drop him yet. The guy is a bad criminal no doubt, but unfortunately a smart one. It means Thailand is in a stalemate position. No way out yet.

[waza]

Taking a step back then, what DOES he want?

And do you agree with it?

he wants Thaksin out the picture for good, no more proxy governments no more clones no more corruption.

And it seems he wants to achieve that through limiting the one-man-one-vote concept. It's hard to see how that can be achieved otherwise, as he will keep on accusing 'everyone who doesn't agree with him' as being under the influence of Thaksin. Even if Thaksin committed suicide today he would likely just find another bogeyman or 'Thaksin regime remnants' to continue his crusade against. It really wouldn't end until he has a PAD favored form of government. (i.e. something other than a parliamentary democracy in the commonly understood definition.)

Tell me if Thaksin wasn't around would there have been the rice scam, the amnesty bill, the constitutional changes, or any of the catalysts of public discontent? If not for Thaksin would there have ever been the yellowshirts and redshirts?

[bifftastic]

History repeats itself. The root of this evil is the same as before. Why isn't it rooted out?

I agree, it would be a huge step forward for Thailand, but it's not that easy to remove the amart from society when they have such a strong influence over large parts of it.

They will be happy only when there is a pro-elite pseudo-democratic minority government in place that appears to be in control, when in reality, they are.

If people continue to democratically elect governments that the elite don't approve of, this sort of thing will always come around again.

As you say, history repeats itself.

[whybother]

RT@ChadapornLin: Reports of Ramkamhaeng students still stuck on campus with gunmen still present targeting them; police say they're on their way

I would have thought that police would have already been there? Clashes between protest groups all night, and there are no police??

[gerry1011]

Reports are saying that those shot were red shirt guards.

Sent from my phone ...

Those shot were "students" caught in crossfire. Reports say that the dead "student" was shot by another "student" (that one must have been high).

The "students" were warned not to confront the red shirts. But since they were apparently looking for new sensations, it was difficult to avoid trouble.

Here are a few pictures of the "students" in action, and, hopefully, after the action.

A nice bunch of gentle guys who would never do anything wrong

The yellow thugs of Suthep seem to be well "educated" indeed... And they have a whistle

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1393564_528797890550298_1247448554_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1374787_528795443883876_449851592_n.jpg.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1461827_528790573884363_146400337_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1470372_589194927813079_539505644_n.jpg

Edited December 1, 2013 by SlyAnimal
Changed pictures to links, as they were causing problems in some readers browsers

[chooka]

So Kwanchai and his red shirts couldn't decide by themselves that they needed to come to Bangkok to "protect democracy". They had to be told to do it by Thaksin.

Sent from my phone ...

More evidence that Thaksin is funding and directing the Red Shirts. More blood on the hands of the criminal.

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't it the yellows who attacked the reds.

[whybother]

Reports are saying that those shot were red shirt guards.

Sent from my phone ...

Those shot were "students" caught in crossfire. Reports say that the dead "student" was shot by another "student" (that one must have been high).

The "students" were warned not to confront the red shirts. But since they were apparently looking for new sensations, it was difficult to avoid trouble.

Here are a few pictures of the "students" in action, and, hopefully, after the action.

A nice bunch of gently guys who would never do anything wrong

The yellow thugs of Suthep seem to be well "educated" indeed... And they have a whistle

<snipped photos>

You should be able to link to these reports then?

The students were warned by Jatuporn not to confront the red shirts "or else". It seems we know what the "or else" means now.

I like how you link to completely separate incidents to try to prove your propaganda. The 4 in the bottom picture was from a few days ago.

[Yunla]

"The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin but everyone wants to say so."

The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin, but the problem with it was that it included Thaksin. If it hadn't included Thaksin, it may well have passed, and Thailand wouldn't be where it is now.

edit: btw. Thailand is comprised of 65 million people.

Yingluck's entire "reconciliation" process was based around Thaksin one way or another, be it passport, money, absolution, escaping justice etc. All the other stuff was just pasted onto the outside of the 'lets hold hands and welcome Him home' argument, which was her flagship policy for several years. The fact she called it "reconciliation" just made it worse, because she was selling it as "a good thing for everybody" but infact that is not the case.

Imho, if she hadn't pushed the reconciliation for Thaksin issue so stridently, there would be peace on the streets today, people would be at work and deciding whether or not to vote her out next election. If you take away the computer-tablets and lol-ricepledging etc. what you have is that PTP have shown themselves to be a monopolicy party, that one single policy boils down to "lets forget all that bad stuff he probably ok certainly did, and welcome Him home coz He loves you really."

[Bagwan]

Praying for Peace in the Kingdom today.

To many have died already and it is time for the yellow shirts to call off their actions and show their protest at the next election.

If the protesters go home and this totally corrupt Government are allowed to do as they please for another two years. does anybody discount the possibility that there won't be another election?

[waza]

Everyone..., listen up. I don't care if BOTH sides are steeped in corruption, which would seem to be the case, any way you look at it. The prevailing sentiment says they're both equally guilty of abuse of power and corruption. I can't speak to the level of it on either side and those who think they can are throwing out pure conjecture or event based "controversial" incidents. Sure that statement will bring the wrath of TV posters to pounce.

The only way to establish and maintain a democracy..., even when the elected party and its leaders are deemed to be corrupt..., must play out by accepting those who have been elected by the people. Whether legitimately or by virtue of them "giving back" to those who aided in their elections..., the vote of the people must stand until 'next elections' come about.

The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin but everyone wants to say so. It was also about Abhisit who, may I remind readers, has been indicted for murder. In fact the bill was aimed to pardon combatants going all the way back to 2004. There are MANY who the amnesty bill would have exonerated and on both sides of this divide., IMHO, for all the right reasons. Let the past remain in the past and work on the present, then the future.

Aung San Suu Kyi who just happens to have a good handle on the matters of the SE Asian populace in matters like these said something a few years ago that really stuck with me. Forgive me if I misquote...., "It's not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power corrupts the people who have it and fear of power corrupts those who are subject to it".

I know how to solve this once and for all. Thailand is comprised of some 23 million people...., over 2/3 live in the rural countryside. Send all those who protest the current "majority elected" government to the north for rice harvest. Let them toil in the fields for 30 days, living a subsistence lifestyle and caring only about their families, a place to sleep and food in their stomachs. Let them wear the mud of the fields on their feet and hands. Let them bathe from a bucket or cistern. Let them sleep on the floor and feel the frigid temperatures of December & January. Let them forage for food from the fields they til and harvest.

Short of that highly unlikely scenario, what has begun again (I fear) will be far worse than what we saw in 2010. And it saddens me for the masses who deserve a better way of life. Suthep's epitaph may not read well in the years to come and he has placed the people of Thailand in grave danger. I question his love for all the people of Thailand.

And so it begins..., again. I sense with far reaching consequence that can only damage a country and its people who I love. This could be a new chapter that will be a very bad one for Thailand.

How incredibly naïve you are, I agree the amnesty bill was not all about Thaksin it also covered 2500 corruption charges from 2004 till 2013 and countless more incidences of corruption that haven't been investigated like the rice scam and the other PTP populist policies.

PS: On another note, only in Thailand would street protestors have to go looking for the police...........

"RT@RichardBarrow: For those that keep asking why anti-government protesters are "storming" Dusit Zoo in #Bangkok, it is because police are stationed there"

"BANGKOK: -- Police closed Rama I Road in bound from Rajprasong area as anti-government protests are scheduled to rally at Royal Thai Police headquarters this morning."

Edited December 1, 2013 by waza

[metisdead]

A post containing false allegations has been removed as well as the replies.