Retirement visa extension restrictions for foreign married couples

[AloisAmrein]

Another step to chase away farangs from Thailand. Much more easy in Malaysia, Cambodia, Laos.

[John71]

I can see more and more people/couples, saying "To Hell with the Bullshit" and moving to Cambodia.

$5 extra at the border or airport and you have a business visa that, currently, can be extended, indefinatly, inside the country.

No need to show, or part with, any money, other than that for the visa.

Opening bank accounts with visa debit cards and e banking is easy as well.

[tigermonkey]

The rapaciouness of the Thai government never ceases to amaze me.

I can't see how the Thai government generates much net income from this.

Also, they may be far thinking in light of same sex marriages - now there's a loophole for those prepared to take the plunge.

Please tell us all exactly what "loophole" you are referring to. Thai Immigration has never recognised same-sex marriages or same-sex civil unions from other jurisdictions. Any same-sex retired couple in Thailand must have two qualifying incomes (65,000 Baht each) or two bank deposits of TB 800,000 each. Nothing has changed and nothing is changing, despite the rumor that Thailand may introduce same-sex civil unions.

Now opposite sex retired couples have been brought to the same basis as same-sex couples.

Edit typos

Edited December 3, 2013 by tigermonkey

[Jingthing]

The humane thing would be to grandfather couples already using this old method. Its bad news. The only bright side is that we won't be talking about "piggybacking " anymore on this forum.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Suradit69]

Sounds like an example of dual pricing has been corrected. Have a piece of paper saying you're married and you get 50% per person requirements to stay in Thailand.

I do sympathize with those who made a home here under those conditions and suddenly find the rules changed, but once again it seems that a small number of people trying to be too clever have caused shared pain for everyone including those who were abiding by the rules.

The same thing will soon happen with people who make baseless claims of retirement income. Soon the embassy affidavits will be insufficient proof. Too many people have already commented here on TV encouraging others to fudge the income shown on affidavits, so that will be "corrected" as well. Coming soon to an Immigrations office near you... and don't blame the Thai government when it happens.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Suradit69

[bangarang]

Can anyone clear this up for me. At the beginning it mentions "with retirement visa" is this only talking about the old guys? Im 30 on a marriage visa and cant even afford 400,000 in my account. Is this going to affect me at the moment? I dont know what I would do if it jumped to 800,000.

[DeeMockMark]

Separate accounts, .... then also you can apply seperate aplications dates...with the dates Separate by example 4 month's . .......you see the rescue possibillity...? (helping aechother with same funds)

Smart chap

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

First it is not a press release from immigration. We have nothing official from immigration yet.

Well, respectfully speaking, then in what form did this supposed Immigration policy change arrive to Thai Visa?

The OP report says "Immigration announced..." And the end of the OP lists Immigration as the "source."

So if Immigration has actually announced something, where and how did they announce it? And what's the exact wording of what they announced?

As opposed to, some quasi news article that presumably someone associated with ThaiVisa has written, based on what, we don't seem to know.

Original source is: http://pattayatoday.net/news/latest-edition/visa-restrictions-for-married-couples/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

But has also been confirmed by Hua Hin immigration.

Thanks for that info, Joe....

So, it looks like the OP posted as some kind of ThaiVisa article is instead a direct copy of the PattayaToday article that, interestingly, doesn't have a single quote of any actual policy language or even quote anyone from Thai Immigration in any capacity.

For the kind of supposed change that's being put forward here, you'd think we'd want to be hearing something from BKK Immigration on this, especially considering the habit of local immigration offices (perhaps Hua Hin in this instance) to adopt wild hair interpretations or policies of their own that aren't enforced nationwide.

Perhaps this is a real change of Immigration policy. But, personally, I'd want to be hearing the news from something more substantial than an unattributed, no-quotes article from PattayaToday.

Edited December 3, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Suradit69]

So they think "farangs" will marry each other to get a thai visa? Yeah, we are the scammers here,right?

Not too many "farangs" in the ASEAN regional 10-member block... I think

The ruling applies to foreigners, whether or not you want to call all foreigners "farang." So it would apply to anyone in ASEAN who is not a Thai citizen.

[oldlady]

I'm not sure if this is totally topic related, but hopefully someone can help with this. If one person (wife) has a PR but is currently working (retires in June) but the husband is already retired. Right now the husband doesn't need a retirement visa as the wife has a work permit, but come June, the work for the wife finishes. In the past, the husband has just had to show his marriage license (and once a year the wife has to go to Immigaration). I know this sounds complicated, but just wonder if the husband has to get a retirement visa in June even if the wife has a PR. Do any of you know?

It will not apply to you. Your extension is under a different clause of the police order specificity for dependents of a person that has PR. In fact your current extension is under that clause I am sure.

Thanks so much for answering. This is reassuring along with being very helpful. Thanks again.

[enjoybeing]

What if you have a joint bank account with your wife with 800.000 THB?

Joint account would require 1.6 million baht. It is already that way for joint accounts.

Nor is it possible for a married couple to present a joint bank account. Each partner is now treated as a separate entity.

[thailandshasse]

The rapaciouness of the Thai government never ceases to amaze me.

Agree with you !

Sounds more like the GERMAN GESTAPO, who WILL CONTROL EVERYTHING IN THAILAND.

OR NKVD !

BETTER THEY SAY

GIVE US ALL YOUR MONEY AS WE CAN HAVE A BIG PARTY FOR THEM !

THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT !

It,s a shame the country (Thailand ) can make this for us falang, who care about the Thai family included the parents.

Live in our house in Thailand, and keep the parents since 15 year with us.

Now I cannot stay anylonger in Thailand, and have to live in my homecountry in Europe, as I have to low pension to be accepted of the Thai Governments.

FEEL LIKE A PUNISHMENTS FROM THE THAI GOVERNMENTS !

MAYBE TIME TO LEAVE THAILAND FOR ANOTHER MORE FRIENDLY COUNTRY AS MALAYSIA, VIETNAM, BURMA, OR ???

[siamjimi]

This is not my group being expat/expat partners in Thailand - however - this is blatantly another nail in the coffin for Thailand’s expat community and the ability to retain desperately needed expat managers at many global companies in Thailand such as Coca-Cola, Pepsi, and other big or not so big companies with global offices.

These women are for the most part majority career mothers and even if the kids are gone they do not have pensions. The younger set of stay at home mothers of younger managers cannot support this requirement either. This equates to senior management expats that cannot sustain their lifestyle with their mate and thus will look for assignments elsewhere other than Thailand.

It also is a determining factor for companies to open offices in Thailand and would at times prohibit growth in the new company start-up as well.

Another shoot yourself in the foot move by immigration and taxation offices in Thailand - sadder things are to come for sure - soon expats will leave and so will the tourism when the entire world see's through the smiles and gets to the truth of how Thai's really feel about foreigners.

[Suradit69]

Can anyone clear this up for me. At the beginning it mentions "with retirement visa" is this only talking about the old guys? Im 30 on a marriage visa and cant even afford 400,000 in my account. Is this going to affect me at the moment? I dont know what I would do if it jumped to 800,000.

Presumably you're using the Baht 400,000 because you're married to a Thai wife, so it wouldn't apply to you regardless of your age.

[Sceptict11]

The rapaciouness of the Thai government never ceases to amaze me.

Agree with you !

Sounds more like the GERMAN GESTAPO, who WILL CONTROL EVERYTHING IN THAILAND.

OR NKVD !

BETTER THEY SAY

GIVE US ALL YOUR MONEY AS WE CAN HAVE A BIG PARTY FOR THEM !

THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT !

It,s a shame the country (Thailand ) can make this for us falang, who care about the Thai family included the parents.

Live in our house in Thailand, and keep the parents since 15 year with us.

Now I cannot stay anylonger in Thailand, and have to live in my homecountry in Europe, as I have to low pension to be accepted of the Thai Governments.

FEEL LIKE A PUNISHMENTS FROM THE THAI GOVERNMENTS !

MAYBE TIME TO LEAVE THAILAND FOR ANOTHER MORE FRIENDLY COUNTRY AS MALAYSIA, VIETNAM, BURMA, OR ???

Good rant .............What exactly is being said ?

[aveabeeror2]

How many people making the worthless comments will be affected by this new, and make sense, law?

No, sorry, you don't know what your talking about. If you think a couple now need 1.600,000 Bt to be worthy to live and spend money in Thailand

then ask for that. And if you are going to mess with peoples lives who have been living in Thailand for years by not grandfathering it in then be up front and say so.

It's the same old story... they came for my friend and I said nothing..... I guarentee you that however you are in Thailand you can be affected by the prescident of

not grandfathering in. Oh.... tomorrow, you need 3 million baht in the bank at 1% interest... so sorry it's policy now.

Ok, I guess we are clear, IMO who had the worthless comment.

The law is the law, if a person doesnt like it, they can always go back home. Thailand was never meant to be a retirement village.If you were back in your own country and some old age pensioners from another country who move there complained about govt. policy, what would you have to say about that?

Edited December 3, 2013 by aveabeeror2

[Suradit69]

This is not my group being expat/expat partners in Thailand - however - this is blatantly another nail in the coffin for Thailand’s expat community and the ability to retain desperately needed expat managers at many global companies in Thailand such as Coca-Cola, Pepsi, and other big or not so big companies with global offices.

These women are for the most part majority career mothers and even if the kids are gone they do not have pensions. The younger set of stay at home mothers of younger managers cannot support this requirement either. This equates to senior management expats that cannot sustain their lifestyle with their mate and thus will look for assignments elsewhere other than Thailand.

It also is a determining factor for companies to open offices in Thailand and would at times prohibit growth in the new company start-up as well.

Another shoot yourself in the foot move by immigration and taxation offices in Thailand - sadder things are to come for sure - soon expats will leave and so will the tourism when the entire world see's through the smiles and gets to the truth of how Thai's really feel about foreigners.

"the ability to retain desperately needed expat managers at many global companies in Thailand such as Coca-Cola, Pepsi, and other big or not so big companies with global offices."

Generally foreigners managing global offices in Thailand are not here on retirement extensions.

"this is blatantly another nail in the coffin for Thailand’s expat community "

Ah, it's been awhile since we heard the "nail in the coffin" pronouncement. Usually a surge in the number of tourists and long-stay expats follows such declarations.

Not really sure if an expat community even exists except in small isolated pockets and considering the number of single farang males or farang males married to Thai women, this may have a relatively small impact on the numbers remaining here. Sorry for the pain this will cause for some, but these global announcements of the demise of the expat "community" are naïve at best and decidedly ego centric as far as the significance is concerned.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Suradit69

[GMeel]

I think you are mixing something up, this topic is about retired married couples. If one partner is at home and one is working this requirement does not apply since they will not be on retirement visas.

This is not my group being expat/expat partners in Thailand - however - this is blatantly another nail in the coffin for Thailand’s expat community and the ability to retain desperately needed expat managers at many global companies in Thailand such as Coca-Cola, Pepsi, and other big or not so big companies with global offices.

These women are for the most part majority career mothers and even if the kids are gone they do not have pensions. The younger set of stay at home mothers of younger managers cannot support this requirement either. This equates to senior management expats that cannot sustain their lifestyle with their mate and thus will look for assignments elsewhere other than Thailand.

It also is a determining factor for companies to open offices in Thailand and would at times prohibit growth in the new company start-up as well.

Another shoot yourself in the foot move by immigration and taxation offices in Thailand - sadder things are to come for sure - soon expats will leave and so will the tourism when the entire world see's through the smiles and gets to the truth of how Thai's really feel about foreigners.

[connda]

Sorry, but totally f***ed up. So, in the Thailand's quest of rid itself of farang tourist, they are going to pick upon foreign married couples, who in any other country, would be view as a household. Amazing Thailand.

I'm wondering when they'll require my Thai wife to have her own income in order for me to stay. Coming soon.

[Tywais]

This was to be expected! Any idea whether "grandfather" rule will be applied here as well, i.e. couples already on an extension of stay will be able to extend under previous rule of only one income/1x800K?

In your dreams! there is no such thing as a grandfather clause. if so than the people who have been here for fifteen or twenty years would have it made. each time a change is made, ALL the people will have to abide by it or leave.

Grandfathering has been used for ages. I remember friends who were on retirement extensions when the requirements were 200,000 Baht and they grandfathered over when the change to 400k was made. Can't be sure that is still the case as they are no longer around.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Separate accounts, .... then also you can apply seperate aplications dates...with the dates Separate by example 4 month's . .......you see the rescue possibillity...? (helping aechother with same funds)

Easy fix...require married people to apply at the same time. Of course. I guess people could apply as separately as "unrelated" people as they need their own bank accounts and such if they are so hard up that they have yo share the bank account money.

[wolfmanjack]

How many people making the worthless comments will be affected by this new, and make sense, law?

No, sorry, you don't know what your talking about. If you think a couple now need 1.600,000 Bt to be worthy to live and spend money in Thailand

then ask for that. And if you are going to mess with peoples lives who have been living in Thailand for years by not grandfathering it in then be up front and say so.

It's the same old story... they came for my friend and I said nothing..... I guarentee you that however you are in Thailand you can be affected by the prescident of

not grandfathering in. Oh.... tomorrow, you need 3 million baht in the bank at 1% interest... so sorry it's policy now.

Ok, I guess we are clear, IMO who had the worthless comment.

The law is the law, if a person doesnt like it, they can always go back home. Thailand was never meant to be a retirement village.If you were back in your own country and some old age pensioners from another country who move there complained about govt. policy, what would you have to say about that?

They can complain about gov policy all they want as far as I care. As a matter of fact one German guy in my home town got deported after living and working there for 30 years because he forgot to change his temporary green card to a permanent one. I felt sorry for the guys family and thought the gov should have let him stay. Something like that should have been caught the same year he was supposed to report for the upgrade.

[Sceptict11]

This was to be expected! Any idea whether "grandfather" rule will be applied here as well, i.e. couples already on an extension of stay will be able to extend under previous rule of only one income/1x800K?

In your dreams! there is no such thing as a grandfather clause. if so than the people who have been here for fifteen or twenty years would have it made. each time a change is made, ALL the people will have to abide by it or leave.

Grandfathering has been used for ages. I remember friends who were on retirement extensions when the requirements were 200,000 Baht and they grandfathered over when the change to 400k was made. Can't be sure that is still the case as they are no longer around.

Have you quoted the wrong figures in error ?

[Tywais]

This was to be expected! Any idea whether "grandfather" rule will be applied here as well, i.e. couples already on an extension of stay will be able to extend under previous rule of only one income/1x800K?

In your dreams! there is no such thing as a grandfather clause. if so than the people who have been here for fifteen or twenty years would have it made. each time a change is made, ALL the people will have to abide by it or leave.

Grandfathering has been used for ages. I remember friends who were on retirement extensions when the requirements were 200,000 Baht and they grandfathered over when the change to 400k was made. Can't be sure that is still the case as they are no longer around.

Have you quoted the wrong figures in error ?

No. This was over 20 years ago when it was 200k. It went from 200k to 400k to 800k. Not a healthy trend there, keeps doubling.

[OMGImInPattaya]

The rapaciouness of the Thai government never ceases to amaze me.

Please explain...one person = 800k...two persons = 1.6k. If more, e.g., kids, should be more still. The past policy was basically a loophole in the rules that has now been fixed.

What's rapacious about it? The money doesn't go to the Thai government, it is for the maintenance of the retired couple while in Thailand and it doesn't even all have to be spent. Your post just looks like more generic Thailand bashing to me.

[aveabeeror2]

Another fine example of Thai discrimination at it's best.

Discrimination, DISCRIMINATION, how could the govt. possible impose the same law on their own people??? Get some sense man.

[connda]

Xenophobic legislation at best. Let's figure out how to keep the farang (who can't display income streams) from entering the country.

OK -

Husband has $500,000/in liquid assets

Wife has $0/year in liquid assets

KICK HER OUT!!!

What total f***ing stupidity. Idiots!

Edited December 3, 2013 by connda

[DrTuner]

I wouldn't be surprised if the next hurdle is having to bring 800k/head to the country each year, regardless of time deposit accounts, etc.

[OMGImInPattaya]

It sounds fair. Two people, two incomes.

So what about women who were housewives after they tot married and therefore haven't had an income???

Exactly, wife has no income? What then?

Bank deposit then. If don't have the funds, then find someplace else to retire or stay in one's country of citizenship. No foreigner has any human right to retire in Thailand.

[siamjimi]

This is not my group being expat/expat partners in Thailand - however - this is blatantly another nail in the coffin for Thailand’s expat community and the ability to retain desperately needed expat managers at many global companies in Thailand such as Coca-Cola, Pepsi, and other big or not so big companies with global offices.

These women are for the most part majority career mothers and even if the kids are gone they do not have pensions. The younger set of stay at home mothers of younger managers cannot support this requirement either. This equates to senior management expats that cannot sustain their lifestyle with their mate and thus will look for assignments elsewhere other than Thailand.

It also is a determining factor for companies to open offices in Thailand and would at times prohibit growth in the new company start-up as well.

Another shoot yourself in the foot move by immigration and taxation offices in Thailand - sadder things are to come for sure - soon expats will leave and so will the tourism when the entire world see's through the smiles and gets to the truth of how Thai's really feel about foreigners.

"the ability to retain desperately needed expat managers at many global companies in Thailand such as Coca-Cola, Pepsi, and other big or not so big companies with global offices."

Generally foreigners managing global offices in Thailand are not here on retirement extensions.

"this is blatantly another nail in the coffin for Thailand’s expat community "

Ah, it's been awhile since we heard the "nail in the coffin" pronouncement. Usually a surge in the number of tourists and long-stay expats follows such declarations.

Not really sure if an expat community even exists except in small isolated pockets and considering the number of single farang males or farang males married to Thai women, this may have a relatively small impact on the numbers remaining here. Sorry for the pain this will cause for some, but these global announcements of the demise of the expat "community" are naïve at best and decidedly ego centric as far as the significance is concerned.

Suradit - plz explain this comment you have made which you bundled both visitors and expats into the same group ["Usually a surge in the number of tourists and long-stay expats follows such declarations."] this just does not make sense and does not add value to the discussion. Are you suggesting I am a newbie to Thailand ? - Far from it and I have many friends living here for 10 to 30 years that work for major companies that will agree totally with my opine.

I must comment your thinking very narrow minded if you think the success of the various companies are not led totally by expats. Only the successful companies are led by expat senior managers (all) upper tiers such as law firms, food processing, shipping, import/export commodities, stock trading, latex, garments, super major oil & gas such as Chevron, ESSO, Shell, Caltex, major brand drinks, and a multitude of other companies and your opinion does not have a significant impact on Thailand (?). Plz elaborate with everyone what industry you work that would have been sheltered from the knowledge of basic corporate influences and information which is commonplace in every continent in the world.

Not sure how you can justify your statement unless you simply do not acknowledge the amount of expats that are in Thailand steering the money making success of these companies. These companies are the ONLY successful companies that are led by expatriate management. Even Red Bull has a multitude of expat managers to drive its success. Anything less and you have a Thai run company that cuts corners, abuses its employees and robs the profits right off the top inhibiting the company’s growth potential and success.