iTV Court Ruling

[Plus]

Compromised as a "source of information"...

Well, i usually quote from published books and noted academics......

...Sondhi adheres to Pramuan Rujanaseri's "Royal Power", which is well known as a extreme right wing book with serious fascist tendencies. That does make Sondhi a fascist.

For someone who never heard of that book, "Royal Powers", your "information" about it will make the first impression which is totally wrong, IMO, as fascism and monarchy are two mutually exclusive systems.

Nevertheless - here is your chance to prove that you don't post bullshit based on your emotional attachments or hatred as you go along. Here you can quote published books and noted academics - who ever called the book and its followers fascists?

The book was a bestseller when it was published, btw, I bet the Nation search would return at least two pages of results. How many will mention fascism? None. But maybe there are noted (not notorious) academics who actually called it fascist.

Sondhi is one of the most despised people in Thailand.

Despised by who? Die hard Thaksin fans? Socialists such as yourself? I understand that in these tiny minorities he might be despised, but not for the rest of the country. His alignment with the monarchy assured that.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Plus

[ColPyat]

As a silver haired ( what hair ) surfer, i cannot relate to all the fuss so long as it is within reason.

As a not yet white haired surfer who unfortunately hardly ever gets to ride the waves anymore, i personally don't understand why the petty issue of me using a larger font size to separate my latest answers to an otherwise already rainbow colored post is an issue that my opponent here has to comment on ad nauseum.

But my opponent always has to pick beans with my posts.

[ColPyat]

Compromised as a "source of information"...

Well, i usually quote from published books and noted academics......

...Sondhi adheres to Pramuan Rujanaseri's "Royal Power", which is well known as a extreme right wing book with serious fascist tendencies. That does make Sondhi a fascist.

For someone who never heard of that book, "Royal Powers", your "information" about it will make the first impression which is totally wrong, IMO, as fascism and monarchy are two mutually exclusive systems.

Nevertheless - here is your chance to prove that you don't post bullshit based on your emotional attachments or hatred as you go along. Here you can quote published books and noted academics - who ever called the book and its followers fascists?

The book was a bestseller when it was published, btw, I bet the Nation search would return at least two pages of results. How many will mention fascism? None. But maybe there are noted (not notorious) academics who actually called it fascist.

Oh, excuse me - let me rephrase it: Royal Powers is a completely racist, extremely right wing piece of drivel that re-invents history, and has been by one of the foremost Thai historians - Thongchai Winitchakul - described as such. He also pointed out the grave historical errors the author made in this piece of drivel.

Sondhi is one of the most despised people in Thailand.

Despised by who? Die hard Thaksin fans? Socialists such as yourself? I understand that in these tiny minorities he might be despised, but not for the rest of the country. His alignment with the monarchy assured that.

Actually, i am not a socialist. The only "ism" i do agree with as a practical system is called 'Social Democracy'. Read it up what i means, and what the difference to 'Socialism' is.

And if you believe that Sondhi is well liked in the country by the majority of the Thai population, and not just the orange clad ultra-nationalist supporters of his, then my friend - you are dreaming, and should get out of your social circle.

And i would really ask you to supply any proof of Sondhi's "alingment" with the monarchy that is not only a self confessed non-reciprocal "alignment" which is even distrusted by most Royalists, who are of the view that his "alignment" uses the mantle of Royalism the same way he supported Thaksin - not out of principle, but for reasons of personal benefit.

As to real "alignment" with the monarchy - i was recently very surprised to read that Samak Sundaravej was once (still is? if someone may enlighten me, please) deeply in "alignment" with a part of the monarchy here, as i have read in 'Rituals of National Loyalty' by Katherine A. Bowie. Interesting, isn't it?

Edited March 14, 2007 by ColPyat

[marshbags]

As a silver haired ( what hair ) surfer, i cannot relate to all the fuss so long as it is within reason.

As a not yet white haired surfer who unfortunately hardly ever gets to ride the waves anymore, i personally don't understand why the petty issue of me using a larger font size to separate my latest answers to an otherwise already rainbow colored post is an issue that my opponent here has to comment on ad nauseum.

But my opponent always has to pick beans with my posts.

Perhaps the green highlight would have been sufficient, having said that the post finished up in a chaotic presentation and distracted rather than attracted attention to your comments, C.P.

For me personally i just didn,t read it due to the visuals rather than the content, in this case i found them a bit overpowering.

This is something i never do as a rule and always ask others to judge content, i stand by this, but i failed on this occasion, i,m sorry to say.

Difference of opinions are healthy for debate and i have no problem what so ever in this area, so long as it stays reasonable and isn,t derogatory.

marshbags

Edited March 15, 2007 by marshbags

[Plus]

Oh, excuse me - let me rephrase it: Royal Powers is a completely racist, extremely right wing piece of drivel that re-invents history, and has been by one of the foremost Thai historians - Thongchai Winitchakul - described as such. He also pointed out the grave historical errors the author made in this piece of drivel.

So you admit that you just made up that fascist accusation, I guess that exonerates Sondhi from being fascist, too. It doesn't exonerate you, however, from falsely claiming to be a reliable source of information who can always back himself up with books and academic papers. Let's forget for a moment your "slander" charges, you obviously don't apply the same criteria to your own posts.

Now, for Thongchai's letter - the heaviest words he used were probably these: "The fad about Pramuan Rujanaseri's book, The Royal Power, baffles me. It is an overly rhetorical book that happens to come out at the right timing..."

Here's another chance for you to prove that your statements have any substance behind them - find me where Thongchai calls the book "a completely racist, extremely right wing piece of drivel".

You just used his name to cover your own opinion.

I will repeat that I gave up on you as a source of information long time ago. I gave up on verifying your "facts", they never check out.

I will repeat that if you wish to play a pundit - find yourself some newbie but don't expect me to believe in your self advertised "serious poster credentials".

[ColPyat]

Oh, excuse me - let me rephrase it: Royal Powers is a completely racist, extremely right wing piece of drivel that re-invents history, and has been by one of the foremost Thai historians - Thongchai Winitchakul - described as such. He also pointed out the grave historical errors the author made in this piece of drivel.

So you admit that you just made up that fascist accusation, I guess that exonerates Sondhi from being fascist, too. It doesn't exonerate you, however, from falsely claiming to be a reliable source of information who can always back himself up with books and academic papers. Let's forget for a moment your "slander" charges, you obviously don't apply the same criteria to your own posts.

Now, for Thongchai's letter - the heaviest words he used were probably these: "The fad about Pramuan Rujanaseri's book, The Royal Power, baffles me. It is an overly rhetorical book that happens to come out at the right timing..."

Here's another chance for you to prove that your statements have any substance behind them - find me where Thongchai calls the book "a completely racist, extremely right wing piece of drivel".

You just used his name to cover your own opinion.

I will repeat that I gave up on you as a source of information long time ago. I gave up on verifying your "facts", they never check out.

I will repeat that if you wish to play a pundit - find yourself some newbie but don't expect me to believe in your self advertised "serious poster credentials".

The theories propagated in this book are borderline fascist, and in the Thai historical context, especially if seen in the Village scout movement, it is very clear to see that fascism and royalism in Thailand are rather closed together at times (read 'Rituals of National Loyalty').

You also forget a few quotes by Thonchai, such as:

-"This is pervert logic"

-"It is irresponsible to mislead the public by logical tricks"

-"Pramuan only adds his own non-sense argumentation in the up-to-date rhetoric and in timely politics. Nothing more, really"

And here is the link for the ones who would like to make their own picture:

http://www.midnightuniv.org/midnight2545/document9555.html

As to the rest of your ad hominem attacks...

[Plus]

You claimed that he called it "extremely racist, right wing" when he said no such thing. You put YOUR words in his mouth.

I'm not arguing whether YOU are right or wrong - it's ascribing your opinions to someone else to gain authority and weight is what is extremely improper.

[ColPyat]

You claimed that he called it "extremely racist, right wing" when he said no such thing. You put YOUR words in his mouth.

I'm not arguing whether YOU are right or wrong - it's ascribing your opinions to someone else to gain authority and weight is what is extremely improper.

You are arguing for the sake of the argument, which is rather annoying.

The problem here is - the book, and the ideas that it propagates, that you defend here has been discredited as employing a revisionist view of history, which is more than questionable and very dangerous in its extremism. It does not matter if it was a bestseller, what matters is the dubious content.

As you have difficulties in factually arguing the validity of those ideas - you try to provoke and bait me by ad hominem attacks. Stop that, and try to defend your case, which is not me, but the book, and the fake history it employs in order to make a point which i view as fascist in essence, very much in the same spirit as the many right wing movements in recent Thai history.

I personally do not care if you feel that i am in your view "discredited" as a source of information. I would ask you though to stay within the limits of politeness and good manners. As you know - i can hit back in the same spirit. But i chose not to as it does serve nobody.

[slimdog]

Once again back on Topic

PM's Office to settle fine with iTV through arbitration panel

The Prime Minister's Office is apparently forced to settle the hefty fines on iTV through an arbitration panel.

Though it has insisted that there is no need to appoint another arbitration, the Arbitration Institute today forced iTV and the PM's Office to appoint their arbitrators.

In the statement to the Stock Exchange of Thailand, iTV said that the institute ordered it to appoint the arbitrator within 15 days and notify its arbitrator's name to the PM's Office.

"If the PMO fails to appoint its arbitrator within 30 days from the notified date, the company shall request the court in jurisdiction to appoint the arbitrator on behalf of the PM's Office," the company said in its statement.

After revoking the broadcasting concession awarded to iTV 10 years ago, the Office said that it would pursue for the payment of the unpaid concession fees of Bt2.2 billion as well as the fines of over Bt100 billion from the company.

Failing to pay the amounts, iTV could face bankruptcy.

source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30029475

The last time itv carried out the recommendations of the arbitration panel it ended up with a 100 Billion baht fine...

[Plus]

The problem here is - the book...

The book is not a problem, the problem is you fraudulently trying to pass your own rants as academic opinions, as I demonstrated above.

I, btw, haven't said anything in praise of that book, don't sign me in its supporters camp just yet, and its content is off topic here.

These are simple, easy to understand things. You either get it or your are hopeless.

[ColPyat]

The problem here is - the book...

The book is not a problem, the problem is you fraudulently trying to pass your own rants as academic opinions, as I demonstrated above.

I, btw, haven't said anything in praise of that book, don't sign me in its supporters camp just yet, and its content is off topic here.

These are simple, easy to understand things. You either get it or your are hopeless.

I am getting really annoyed here and right now. I have never pretended to be an academic, or that my views are academic. On the opposite - several times i have posted that i have no academic qualifications whatsoever.

What i do is reading academic works, and recommend those works to people here who are interested in what is going on in Thailand beyond the unsatisfactory superficial information that is presented by the medias. You obviously do not belong to this group.

So stop this idiotic piss contest right now, I have asked you that several times in this thread.

[JacknDanny]

The problem here is - the book...

The book is not a problem, the problem is you fraudulently trying to pass your own rants as academic opinions, as I demonstrated above.

I, btw, haven't said anything in praise of that book, don't sign me in its supporters camp just yet, and its content is off topic here.

These are simple, easy to understand things. You either get it or your are hopeless.

I am getting really annoyed here and right now. I have never pretended to be an academic, or that my views are academic. On the opposite - several times i have posted that i have no academic qualifications whatsoever.

What i do is reading academic works, and recommend those works to people here who are interested in what is going on in Thailand beyond the unsatisfactory superficial information that is presented by the medias. You obviously do not belong to this group.

So stop this idiotic piss contest right now, I have asked you that several times in this thread.

I was just about to comment. But best not, I might get detention

[Totster]

Plus and Colpyat...

Please stop arguing, and concentrate on the topic.

Thanks

Totster

[ColPyat]

.

Edited March 16, 2007 by ColPyat

[JacknDanny]

.

Much better!

[Grover]

when you are trapped in a corner, follow these simple steps to escape:

1. increase emotional tone of your retort and toss in a smokescreen or two... (dont focus on the accusation - now its time to get away!)

2. brace for a spanking and the subsequent stalemate...

3. lie low for a while until the heat has died down...

4. pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

:D

[samran]

This has gone way off topic.

Closed.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

This has gone way off topic.

Closed.

Good idea