Eight Years Together - Is The End Near?

[onni4me]

I recently discovered that my boyfriend of 8 years is infatuated or really in love with another Thai man. He has recently opened a new business quite far from our house so he decided to have a room to sleep over near his work. I know him very well after all these years and knew something was wrong. He became evasive and had that guilty look on his face.

We had a talk while walking an exercise on his day off and he told me about this other person. He is apparently some sort of plastic surgeon and very well off. He is younger than me, we share an age difference of 7 years. Finally my bf confessed having sex with him and saying that he is very confused about his feelings and asked me to give him time to sort his thoughts.

I was gutted. I had a long walk around a mountain temple and my feelings varied between anger to hate, from hate to feelings of desperation and tears. After thinking about it, I decided that I will let him decide. What will be, will be.

I have helped him for years to finish his education, build his and his mother a house, started the business fro him and so on. I believe that he is not after the money but genuinely is falling in love with this other guy. We talked and he said we can sell the house and I can keep the money. That is not what I am really worried about. I will manage financially whatever comes but I still love him and would not like to see us end something that has been quite a long relationship.

Recently we have had a lot of stress related to different building projects and other related matters and somehow I see this new encounter as some sort of stress relief. I would like to see it end but who knows. I asked what he wants and the answer was something like he wants to finish it in his own way in due time if possible. I have not always been the nicest guy to him. i have bit of a temper but I get over it very quickly and forget, He still remembers and says that I am fighting with him too much: our "fights" are normally my way to try to explain how to avoid problems and trying to ease up things talking beforehand about possible mismanagement in business. I am just not very patient guy so it may coem out too harshly.

I am a bit lost at the moment and would prefer some friendly advice if anyone has experienced something similar in his past and especially if he came over the ordeal with some happy ending. I do not wish to get replies that suggest he is ripping me off or that he acts like some prostitute. That is not what is going on.

[Fookhaht]

" I have not always been the nicest guy to him. i have bit of a temper but I get over it very quickly and forget, He still remembers and says that I am fighting with him too much: our "fights" are normally my way to try to explain how to avoid problems and trying to ease up things talking beforehand about possible mismanagement in business. I am just not very patient guy so it may coem out too harshly. "

This is the relationship killer in Thai culture, especially when the foreigner is more direct, prone to lose their temper and as a result is sometimes harsh. It's very tough for a Thai because every instance of your harshness causes them to lose face. Also, it's very hard for a Thai to respect someone who is not in control of their temper.

A Thai guy can find thousand other Thai men who won't rub them the wrong way for every foreigner who will.

I would suggest you just count it as a lesson learned and apply it to your next relationship. And then determine to move on, despite the heartbreak.

Best of luck.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Fookhaht

[onni4me]

Ah! The famous Face.

So you see it that never lose temper and never act angry is the norm in Thailand. And you suggest right away that all is my fault and eight years relationship is just something that has no value to even try to save it?

And who they lose Face if we have had private angry moment? To me?

By all means, if relationships would be that easy that easy that there would never be fights or harshness then we would not be the human beings that I know of. I don't trust people who say they never had a fight or difficult moments in their life. And what comes to thousands of Thai men that would be better option, I say that a gay relationship between two Thais is not any more easy due to the same Face issue you brought up.

We have agreed to try sort this out somehow and we have not been fighting about it. Since you seem to knwo so much about Thais and gay relationships, I'd like to know if you have any personal views about the matter or just throwing in your judgmental views.

As I said, I wish to hear how others survived similar ordeals if they can give me some advice. I am not looking your kind of reply to dump everything and go. We have an adopted daughter of 12 years and also I need to consider his elderly mother that stays with us. It is not so easy as just to leave everything.

[anon8]

..

And you suggest right away that all is my fault and eight years relationship is just something that has no value to even try to save it?

..

 

You ask for advive, one forum member offers his opinion, and you are not happy about what he said.

Truth is, every relationship is different, no one can give you useful advice, excrpt maybe a close friend, who knows you and your bf well.

You said you hope to work things out, and maybe keep the relationship..

Your bf is in love with another man, what is there left to do or say?

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[onni4me]

You said you hope to work things out, and maybe keep the relationship..

Your bf is in love with another man, what is there left to do or say?

Well, there is love, there are encounters, there is infatuation, there are flings, there is momentary insanity. Love is the most overvalued and abused word in many ways. I still love him and won't give up just yet. Seems that there is this view that love only applies to one person at the time with full 100% power. I see the situation a bit differently and try to work through it. Somehow interesting that same people suggesting just walking out the door seem to regard love as something that just is or isn't. Sometimes one has to work and even fight to keep it working. Also there seems to be very little regard for the fact that ending it would effect a lot of other people as well their future. I am not used to just give and and looking for the next guy.

As I said, the situation needs a bit more time to become completely clear. At the moment feelings are very strong but we talk.

[onni4me]

A Thai guy can find thousand other Thai men who won't rub them the wrong way for every foreigner who will.

This sentence sort of irritates me. Why they then choose to have a foreigner in the first place if there is plenty of available Thai guys around?

I agree that cultural differences are one factor but also if one is mature and decides to have a relationship, it's not like a dog and master. If people need constant "rubbing in the right way" I feel that they are rather immature.

[anon8]

Well, there is love..

 

Yes, love is a beautiful thing. I believe man only truly comes alive, when in love. Rest of the time is just vegetating.

But is there anything more painful, heart crushing, than being in love with a person, who's in love with someone else.

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[Fookhaht]

" Since you seem to knwo so much about Thais and gay relationships, I'd like to know if you have any personal views about the matter or just throwing in your judgmental views."

Those WERE my personal views, based upon living here in Thailand for over a decade, and losing a partner after five years for exactly the same reasons that you manifest.

It's interesting that you judged me with the same harshness you accuse me of judging you.

I'm not sure if you really want advice, or you just want someone to coddle you in your misconception that you can violate basic cultural mores and expect to get off scot-free with no serious ramifications to your relationships. Romantic relationships are complicated enough even without the added layers of intercultural differences.

Trust me, I've been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Further, it is my personal view that once he's fallen out of love with you, and fallen in love with another person, there's no amount of manipulation that you can undertake to make someone love you against their will. Hence, my advice to learn from your mistakes and move on.

Just as an aside, I would never be this direct with a Thai friend or Thai partner. However, you being a westerner/foreigner, I assumed you could take it in as well as dish it out.

Maybe I was wrong.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Fookhaht

[anon8]

I have also been here 10 years, but I usually spend summer months in Euroland.

Except one time, few years back, I stayed here 2 years straight, except visa runs to Malaysia every 90 days since I only qualify for tourist visa, and at the time neighboring country embassies only issued single entry.

Our relationship ended when it turned that the sister of the guy I was madly in love with, turned out to be his girlfriend. All long 1.5 years he had a gf. It ended when I found out.

You ask how to keep your relationship going. My guess is, the person you consider your partner, does not consider you his partner.

So when you ask how to fix things, I ask you, what is there to fix. There is nothing there. He is no longer your boyfriend.

The sooner you accept that, the sooner your heart will heal.

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[onni4me]

I'm not sure if you really want advice, or you just want someone to coddle you in your misconception that you can violate basic cultural mores and expect to get off scot-free with no serious ramifications to your relationships. Romantic relationships are complicated enough even without the added layers of intercultural differences.

So far the only advice has been that just forget everything and walk away. Very simple and I wouldn't know if there was something that could have been saved or not. I said in the beginning that I am not yet sure what level of infatuation or love we are talking about here. Before i jump to the plane, I like to know.

Secondly, having a fight in private does not seem to me being a serious violation of cultural mores (Mores (pronounced more-ays) are a type of norm. They are strict norms that control moral and ethical behavior. Mores are norms based on definitions of right and wrong.) since is it part of Thai culture to lie and have a secret boyfriend somewhere? I consider this worse than exchanging some loud words in our private quarters.

I really would like to hear if there is anyone who has overcome this sort of situation and how did he manage to do so. Leaving is no more easy but before I do, I'd like to know if there is something to save.

[Scott]

I've been with the same person for 20 years. Thais also have tempers and he can be just as testy as I can. We never get physical, but both of us like to throw things -- not breakables, but the newspaper takes a real beating!

I would tend to think he is used to your temperament.

The decision is a difficult one. For me and my other half, we are just so used to each other and I think the idea of starting over with another person would be very difficult. We are very comfortable with one another.

[Fookhaht]

Methinks an unusual relationship where a Thai is involved.

A show of temper is considered a weakness in Thai society – lack of self-control is the main element they look down upon. The quickest way for the average Thai to lose respect for someone is to raise your voice in anger in any conversation. Just try it at a restaurant with the waiter and watch the visible disgust on all the Thai faces.

Granted, things may be different in the privacy of your own home, but it has never been that way in my relationships with Thais. The cultural more held.

"I would tend to think he is used to your temperament."

I would tend to think just the opposite, which is one probable reason why the OP faces the situation that he is in today. The Thai partner got fed up with it, and the grass looked greener on the Thai side of the fence.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Fookhaht

[onni4me]

Yes, Scott. It would be very difficult since we've been together pretty long. I had another talk with him this morning and all he could say that something that was missing from me he found in this new guy. He asked time to resolve his feelings. I said i can wait a month but also urged him to be honest to himself, his new encounter and me. I believe that the guy does not know that I exist.

I think much of this is actually due to the fact that we have both been too close and working hard under stress. He is not good with stressful situations and takes them much harder than me. Maybe we would just need a little holiday from each others? Or together a change of scenery?

I see this as a breaking point. Either we come through this stronger and more mature or it will be the end for something that I still see worthwhile trying to save. Time supposedly will tell. Gay life seems to be in some occasions very promiscuous. I luckily have lost that appetite kicking over the fence. Now been reading some sites for people in similar situation and they all seem to suggest that if we were to continue, he should stop seeing the other guy completely. I tend to agree but am willing to give time to consider. At this point I think pressing him with ultimatum would probably not be beneficial.

[onni4me]

The Thai partner got fed up with it, and the grass looked greener on the Thai side of the fence.

Yes, the grass normally looks greener the other side but we people are not perfect and it is part of being mature enough to try to solve problems and feelings together.

There might be some truth in this since I feel that the whole encounter can be somewhat blamed on the everyday living and working becoming a bit of a bore or routine. That also happens. Normal life is not as exciting always as Thai soaps for instance.

We have responsibilities together however what ever way this unfolds.

[rhodie]

"This sentence sort of irritates me. Why they then choose to have a foreigner in the first place if there is plenty of available Thai guys around? "

Number 1 would be that foreigners have money. You built him and his mother a house and set him up in business, Yet you say it is not about money.

Not many Thais around that can do that, hence a foreigner that can.

[Fookhaht]

"Gay life seems to be in some occasions very promiscuous."

The studies and statistics tend to agree with you. Exacerbating that, the "try before you buy" prevalent mentality in developed countries, (that is, sex before commitment), seems to work against committed relationships, both in homosexual and heterosexual relationships.

It's a minefield out there.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Fookhaht

[FiftyTwo]

Everyone has affairs in Thailand, gay or hetero.

Too many opportunities to hold out for long.

Go out and have an affair yourself, no need to breakup, unless he wants to.

Edited December 5, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[Fookhaht]

Go out and have an affair yourself....

Yes, that retaliatory action will surely put the final nails in the coffin of the relationship.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Fookhaht

[timtscott]

A house is a home not a prison. if he wants to go you have no choice but to let him. The question really is what to do if he wants to stay? Then the ball would be in your court. Best of luck

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[onni4me]

"This sentence sort of irritates me. Why they then choose to have a foreigner in the first place if there is plenty of available Thai guys around? "

Number 1 would be that foreigners have money. You built him and his mother a house and set him up in business, Yet you say it is not about money.

Not many Thais around that can do that, hence a foreigner that can.

To be honest, if I choose to be difficult, most of it is mine. Only the car is in his name. I am not worried about money and have enough even I would walk away taking nothing with me. We have lived as a family and some build houses, some rent. That was our decision to build. I work home so it is convenient to have my office where I stay.

I don't think it's all about money since it's been so long. We live quite frugal lives.

Thais tend to have a more softer ways to communicate and my bf is very sensitive to some sort of flattery. I am very direct speaking person and don't save myself from it either. However, I don't lie in a relationship which I see as a good thing.

[Fookhaht]

It looks like the Thai partner already realizes that the OP's home is not a prison.

"He has recently opened a new business quite far from our house so he decided to have a room to sleep over near his work. I know him very well after all these years and knew something was wrong. He became evasive..."

[Ozybear]

It looks like the Thai partner already realizes that the OP's home is not a prison.

"He has recently opened a new business quite far from our house so he decided to have a room to sleep over near his work. I know him very well after all these years and knew something was wrong. He became evasive..."

if any of my partners cheated on me, as 1 did, it's over. Once a cheater, always a cheater. I can't forget or forgive no matter the excuses give, love or not. Just my personal opinion. Good luck in your future.

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[timtscott]

Quite right fookhaat, I was merely speaking metaphorically about house/prison. My point being the OP doesn't have any control if his partner chooses to leave.

The dilemma is what to do if he wants to stay in the relationship with the OP.

Relationships can survive infidelity, but it is a long, painful process to rebuild trust. Sometimes it's easier just to start over.

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[onni4me]

It looks like the Thai partner already realizes that the OP's home is not a prison.

"He has recently opened a new business quite far from our house so he decided to have a room to sleep over near his work. I know him very well after all these years and knew something was wrong. He became evasive..."

Could you clarify what you try to say?

[Fookhaht]

"Thais tend to have a more softer ways to communicate....I am very direct speaking person and don't save myself from it either. However, I don't lie in a relationship which I see as a good thing."

BINGO

Here in Thailand, saving face is more important than telling the truth. If a lie puts a person more at ease and smooths over a situation, that's the route they'll generally take.

Your personal approach (direct, say it like it is) runs cross-grain to the culture. In my workplace, foreign employees don't last long who tend to take this approach to interpersonal communication. I would think it would result in significant wear and tear on an intimate (especially cross-culture) relationship as well.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Fookhaht

[Fookhaht]

It looks like the Thai partner already realizes that the OP's home is not a prison.

"He has recently opened a new business quite far from our house so he decided to have a room to sleep over near his work. I know him very well after all these years and knew something was wrong. He became evasive..."

Could you clarify what you try to say?

IMO, he's already in the process of moving out. This is step one.

This post was in response to Timtscott's post...

"A house is a home not a prison. if he wants to go you have no choice but to let him. The question really is what to do if he wants to stay? Then the ball would be in your court."

Edited December 5, 2013 by Fookhaht

[onni4me]

Your personal approach (direct, say it like it is) runs cross-grain to the culture. In my workplace, foreign employees don't last long who tend to take this approach to interpersonal communication. I would think it would result in significant wear and tear on an intimate (especially cross-culture) relationship as well.

Hmm...all I can think of is that I am not living with culture. I live with a human being. I really think that if all good behavior and making excuses to lie and cheat are some sort of culture that I should put up with than I say: <deleted> the culture!

This has sometimes been felt by me that I can not give up my beliefs that in a relationship, not some fling, one has to be honest with integrity. There is no such culture in the World that would see lies as a good thing. What does Buddha say about this?

"There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting."

"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."

So when we talk about Thai beliefs, isn't Buddhism part of it? Part of culture? When someone says to me that Thais lie to soothen things up, I say that is utter BS.

And when we come to this subject, my boyfriend came up with the truth when we had our walk and talk. So, maybe he actually is not besotted by the alleged Thai cultural ways? Maybe he actually gives me credit as much as telling what actually is happening to him/us?

[Fookhaht]

#1: Try as you may, you cannot divorce a human being from his cultural context.

#2: Few Thais practice most of Buddha's ideals, especially this one.

Even a cursory glance reveals there is much in Thai culture that runs counter to Buddhism. Witness: animal cruelty, aggressive/selfish driving habits, pandemic corruption, political violence, etc. Want me to keep going on?

Edited December 5, 2013 by Fookhaht

[ToddWeston]

Well I've been in the same relationship for 25 years and my Thai has a temper beyond all belief, I'm the mellow one, all of our rows were business related but we survived. We decided last year to move here and perhaps start something in our field but I'm just happy for the moment breaking things and then fixing them.

I don't buy a lot of this cultural difference stuff, in my case we met in UNI and he basically adapted the Western way of thinking and attitude then (except the temper & hence why I had to learn Thai ) I've never cheated nor has he, we're honest and open about our feelings BUT if in a moment of weakness he did have a one time fling or an affair I would somehow find it in my heart to forgive him and move on together. I suppose I'd get over the pain in time but I would fight damn hard to save this marriage.

My suggestion is give him some space, don't give up just yet let the affair run it's course and be there for him when it fails, you're in love and hopefully he's your best friend, the investment is worth it IMO.

If you're in Bangkok and want to grab a coffee sometime drop me a line, I've had a few friends that I've been there for them to simply listen.

Best of luck

Edited December 5, 2013 by ToddWeston

[Fookhaht]

"I don't buy this cultural difference stuff...and he basically adapted the Western way of thinking and attitude...."

Anyone else see the obvious contradiction?

Yes your partner had to come from his culture to yours to improve things. That's called cross-cultural adaptation. That's part of the reality of cultural differences. One or both of you have to make a move, culturally, for things to work.

My contention is that the OP has not moved far from his Western, direct communication, say it like it is, confrontational, devil-may-care-whether-you-lose-face-or-not culture. The B/F is fed up with it.

In addition to the probable need for some personal communication adjustments, I really like the last poster's advice:

"My suggestion is give him some space, don't give up just yet let the affair run it's course and be there for him when it fails, you're in love and hopefully he's your best friend, the investment is worth it IMO."

There's a time to try to save it, and there's a time to move on. Only you will know the difference.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Fookhaht