Visa Hysteria

[bina]

well,

starting to investigate the visa /marriage possibilities for anon and i here in israel.... if u all think thailand is third world and convuluted, try it here....

three different offices gave me three different answers.... non of which were helpful...

i am now hysterical....

1.. what do i do if my bf has no birth certificate since he was born at home in a rinky dinky muubaan in korat?

2. i need the original

3. i need a notorized translated version of a police statement stating no criminal record bla bla... how do i explain this in thai?

4. letters etc from family (his parents are illiterate, they phone, dont write, they dont keep anything we write to them since they live in a dinky little muubaan wooden rickety hut)and we phone to them to a cousin or sister or other relatives' cell phones which constantly change so cant prove anything even if i were to print out my phone calls from the past months....

5.we have to show pics of a wedding; well, what if we just register at the amphur etc??? we have no money for a big showy wedding

6. he has to leave israel for us to get married, and then i would meet up with him to marry him in thailand, but then he doesnt have a visa to get back in so how do i prove we are a couple???!!!!

7. i need letters and explanations of the nature of our relationship (right. he has no visa, sneaks in and out of the kibbutz so as not to get caught, i see him on weekends in a truck shed/mini room, or here at my house), how do i explain that??!!

the thai consulate here made it seem like a piece of cake. the tel aviv min. of interior gave me basic info and had no suggestions and then i was told to phone between hours such and such to a jerusalem phone for a 'slow procedure' for getting visa for him... but here, when calling , turns out the hours i was told are totally incorrect...

just ranting.... it just seems totally hopeless and catch 22 when trying to deal with procedures, rules and authorities... think i may get a lawyer to help me out of all this.... but of course, no money.... absolutely totally off the wall hysterical... and i;m usually jai yen....

[astral]

1.. what do i do if my bf has no birth certificate since he was born at home in a rinky dinky muubaan in korat?

He must have had a birth certificate (bai kert) at some stage, otherwise he would not have a passport.

Nowadays the passport office scans these documents directly to the computer.

Previously they would have wanted a photocopy.

Even if he was born at home his birth must have been registered.

2. i need the original

Sorry I don't know the procedure for requesting an official duplicate.

3. i need a notorized translated version of a police statement stating no criminal record bla bla... how do i explain this in thai?

4. letters etc from family (his parents are illiterate, they phone, dont write, they dont keep anything we write to them since they live in a dinky little muubaan wooden rickety hut)and we phone to them to a cousin or sister or other relatives' cell phones which constantly change so cant prove anything even if i were to print out my phone calls from the past months...

5.we have to show pics of a wedding; well, what if we just register at the amphur etc??? we have no money for a big showy wedding.

No need for a showy wedding.

Photos of you two together, in smart clothes, plus the family will suffice.

Once you have the cert at the Amphur you have an official document to prove your marriage!!

Get in translated and notorised in Thailand, then there is very little room for arguement.

6. he has to leave israel for us to get married, and then i would meet up with him to marry him in thailand, but then he doesnt have a visa to get back in so how do i prove we are a couple???!!!!

[/quote}

How did he enter Israel in the first place?

What is his status there?

7. i need letters and explanations of the nature of our relationship (right. he has no visa, sneaks in and out of the kibbutz so as not to get caught, i see him on weekends in a truck shed/mini room, or here at my house), how do i explain that??!!

the thai consulate here made it seem like a piece of cake. the tel aviv min. of interior gave me basic info and had no suggestions and then i was told to phone between hours such and such to a jerusalem phone for a 'slow procedure' for getting visa for him... but here, when calling , turns out the hours i was told are totally incorrect...

just ranting.... it just seems totally hopeless and catch 22 when trying to deal with procedures, rules and authorities... think i may get a lawyer to help me out of all this.... but of course, no money.... absolutely totally off the wall hysterical... and i;m usually jai yen....

I think you have to resolve his status in Israel first, then take it from there.

Sorry not to be more helpful

Edited May 10, 2006 by astral

[LaoPo]

Bina, try to relax...it's NOT the end of the world.

I have been following your situation in the past a little...

What is the urge to get married? To be together in Israel legally (since he is illegal, right) ? If so, I'm afraid that it will be extremely difficult.

The situation you describe is so complicated and I'm sorry that I can't help you with the paperwork since I have no experience in your special situation.

You mentioned in the past that the 2 of you would eventually live and work in Thailand; is that an option, taken your children into consideration?

All in all...difficult, but looking at it from a helicopter-view, your future lies more in Thailand rather than Israel. If you can survive (with so little money) in Israel, the two of you can certainly survive, one way or another in Thailand.

In my humble opinion you have to choose now for your own love and life...because your worst case scenario at this moment is, that Anon will be captured (for a short period put in jail, eventually) and deported; in that case you will have to follow him to Thailand anyway.....or...........abandon your great love.

The choice in yours...

Good luck!

LaoPo

[bina]

thanx lao pao and astral

as usual the voice of reason....

1. ok, will check out that birth certificate (bai kert) thing.... it didnt occur to me in my hysteria of the moment

2. there is some new court ruling here that states that thai workers are no longer tied to their employer for a work permit , the permit with the thai worker... HOWEVER, court ruling is one thing and ministry of the interior and immigration offices actions are an other, so he is still illegal for the moment, but im working on figuring out this legal quagmire... if others with more complicated situations can succeed, im sure i can, its just a matter of energy time and of course...$$$$ (shekels in this case)

this case is unusual in that he is a thai male, and i am an israeli female; there are many more of the reverse types so maybe there is more leeway for us (not to many thai men come to be prostitutes in israel like moldavian women etc getting married for the visa just to become working girls willingly or not)

2. u are right, the worst case scenario is he gets sent back, and i have to visit once or twice a year for the next few years (thousands of thai women do this, i can manage also.... after all, i;m not 24 with my first child or something, so have learned patience) because i think for my 12 yr old's sake, i should still be here for the next few years (she's my baby daughter and closest to me, the oldest goes to army and then the son goes but he's closer to dad).... and our relationship either survives or dies...

3. the marriage thing is mostly for him, it is important to him (not the amphur registration, but the village 'taam pitee' as he wei phra every day, and buddhist and village ceremonies are very important to him)

every once in a while im permitted an hysteria attack.... then common sense or as lao pao put it, helicopter view returns.... i htink im still better off then some of the farang men in thailand with unrecognized ethnic group wives (they had a thread for a while)...

thank you

[lopburi3]

As for the birth certificate I am sure there are provisions for non availability as there are from the US Embassy. Statements signed by village/district and family are allowed. There are many in Thailand who do not have a birth certificate (even if one was issued) as they were subject to local storage and often lost to vermin or fire, both at home and in official storage.

If you read the visas to other countries forum you will see the whole process of marriage/visas/etc. can be very complex and time consuming but in the end most people who persevere are successful.

But understand the anxiety attack when hit in the face. Good luck.

[barryofthailand]

My wife didn't have a birth certificate either. She needed one so I could get my retirement. So as stated above, his family will have to go to the local Amphur with the village head man and swear out a letter to the director of the Amphur. He will then document this in a letter to act as a birth certificate. Then it will have to be translated into English. Many people in thailand do not have birth certificates due to the fact they were born at home. the only thing you need in Thailand to get a passport is your ID card.

Barry

[bina]

thanx,

we are already working on these basics.... before i even tackle the authorities and i will almost definately go for a lawyer even for a one off meeting to get info sorted.... i feel more in control when i'me doing something rather then just thinking and spinning wheels ....

just that i cant vent w/the aussies, yanks, ozzies etc.... about their girlfriend visas cause anglo countries are different than middle east third world beauracracies (when it helps to know someone who knows someone who was in the army with someones' son so they will help u...etc.)

just to give u a clue but slightly off topic (i always go off on tangents i know) : to get married in israel which is a religoius state (with my then husband) i had to get a wedding certificate of my grandmother's marriage as performed by an orthodox rabbi .... to prove that i am jewish (the who is a jew law of israel)... among other wierd things i had to supply in order to get married... not to mention 6 months of paperwork etc.... one thing that others should appreciate: the freedom to marry how and to whom you want....w/o the paper work...whatever happened to just riding thru the camp, grabbing the girl and riding off into the mongolian sunset (no visa, no passport, etc...)