PM offers House dissolution and national election

[JRSoul]

Thaksin wasn't on the electoral roll,

For the reasons I gave earlier, that was clearly beside the point. The electorate have a far better understanding of the nuances of Thai politics than most of the posters on TV give them credit for.

All of the policies you refer to were widely reported and understood as at that time coming from Thaksin.

and now they have proven to be failures, is he apologising?

[EyesWideOpen]

Interesting move on Yingluck's part. Or should I say on the part of Thaksin..... :-) Not really sure what the

solution is for poor Thailand to escape this vicious cycle of politicians looting the country. With massive

vote buying and insane populist policies, Thaksin has proved how easy it it to take over a country

and then plunder it. So another election will just provide Thailand with Thaksin clone number 4 I think, am now losing track.

And then of course more looting. Sad sad sad sad...... I think Thailand is not ready for democracy...

With 600 billion baht of corruption money waiting in the wings ( 2 trillion baht transport bill time 30% corruption fee) ,

there will be some serious fighting to be in power at the time to arrange the proper money flow to the right people....

Edited December 8, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[jackrich]

yingluck is very smart and very intelligent women. at least much more then the everage thai politician and much more as everyone from the so called opositon and therefore hatet by a lot of mens :-D she knows she will win the next elections too if this is the case :-D

ROTFL

I am sorry, she is so intellectually incapable that it beggars belief. She is TS's bagman, literally, and now she is his puppet.

Nothing can change these two facts.

I doubt that a single intelligent thought has ever entered her head, and she certainly never demonstrates any ability to engage in intelligent discourse, in fact she avoids it at every opportunity according to the reports of her parliamentary performances.

And you think Suthep or the next Democrat puppet PM will be his own master?

Napoleon once said: In this life we are either kings or pawns, emperors or fools.

[badmedicine]

I still feel that a coup is Suthep's and the Democrats' endgame. They know who the Army will support. And how can Suthep continue to fumble toward the creation of a People's Council? Does he really think that he will have any legitimacy? Suthep and the Democrats cannot accept a 'Democracy' in which they are the minority party -- simple as that.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with that. There's no support AFAICT for Suthep in the middle ground, and far more support for a re-run of 2006. The problem I think for all on that side is how they're going to transition from a military coup (which the West will not accept in anything but a limited term) to a "democracy" where they win.

This is why I see Suthep's entire strategy as counter-productive. The Democrats best bet is to accept the dissolution of parliament, and work twice as hard to convince people that they will actually manage in everyone's best interests. They need to get away from slurring Thaksin and start looking towards both a leader and a set of honest policies that people will believe in. Unfortunately, Abhisiti's a busted proposition, so they need to find a new leader and start talking to the electorate in an open and honest way. Anything else will only continue to exacerbate the problems we already have.

[Mampara]

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.

Actually this would work quite well for her being a women. looking at her with a sentimental attitude, with the support of the women, which by far outnumber the men, she would win. They say "The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world" the only problem as far as I can see, is that she has outside influence. I say keep her, and get rid Mr T's sidekicks in parliament, a move that would perhaps still rough waters.

[JRSoul]

And you think Suthep or the next Democrat puppet PM will be his own master?

Napoleon once said: In this life we are either kings or pawns, emperors or fools.

You're not an emperor, are you?

[Smokemachine]

By the way,anyone know where is the meeting point for the anti-goverment protesters gather tomorrow morning?

[DrDweeb]

yingluck is very smart and very intelligent women. at least much more then the everage thai politician and much more as everyone from the so called opositon and therefore hatet by a lot of mens :-D she knows she will win the next elections too if this is the case :-D

ROTFL

I am sorry, she is so intellectually incapable that it beggars belief. She is TS's bagman, literally, and now she is his puppet.

Nothing can change these two facts.

I doubt that a single intelligent thought has ever entered her head, and she certainly never demonstrates any ability to engage in intelligent discourse, in fact she avoids it at every opportunity according to the reports of her parliamentary performances.

And you think Suthep or the next Democrat puppet PM will be his own master?

Napoleon once said: In this life we are either kings or pawns, emperors or fools.

Another debate/logic failure from a TV poster.

Crikey there are some limited intellects here.

a) It is irrelevant what the next one will be like, to the issue of whether the current PM is a puppet

Napolean said a lot of things, and were I near my library I would provide you with some of his dumber quotes. In any case, relevance?

[jackrich]

yingluck is very smart and very intelligent women. at least much more then the everage thai politician and much more as everyone from the so called opositon and therefore hatet by a lot of mens :-D she knows she will win the next elections too if this is the case :-D

ROTFL

I am sorry, she is so intellectually incapable that it beggars belief. She is TS's bagman, literally, and now she is his puppet.

Nothing can change these two facts.

I doubt that a single intelligent thought has ever entered her head, and she certainly never demonstrates any ability to engage in intelligent discourse, in fact she avoids it at every opportunity according to the reports of her parliamentary performances.

And you think Suthep or the next Democrat puppet PM will be his own master?

Napoleon once said: In this life we are either kings or pawns, emperors or fools.

Another debate/logic failure from a TV poster.

Crikey there are some limited intellects here.

a) It is irrelevant what the next one will be like, to the issue of whether the current PM is a puppet

Napolean said a lot of things, and were I near my library I would provide you with some of his dumber quotes. In any case, relevance?

Tunnel vision and insulting others are some of your better qualities, huh?

[JRSoul]

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.

Actually this would work quite well for her being a women. looking at her with a sentimental attitude, with the support of the women, which by far outnumber the men, she would win. They say "The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world" the only problem as far as I can see, is that she has outside influence. I say keep her, and get rid Mr T's sidekicks in parliament, a move that would perhaps still rough waters.

Women voting for women is a bit naive, and more than a little insulting to the intelligence of women.

If Oz is a realistic example, almost every state has had a woman premier, and a female PM. They rarely lasted more than a single term once given the chance to show their incompetence.

[tomacht8]

Overall, here the democratic system suffers. No transparency, loophole regulations, inadequate control- and sanction mechanism.

The corruption exists here for decades!

All parties have been served here in the past predominantly itself.

These systemic deficits make corruption possible.

For example lack of transparency. If all people really know what happened with there money, guess also the reds where on the street.

Lets say an old lonely woman suffering starvation upcountry and can no longer feed her self.

So the government takes 10.000 Baht from the household budget and put the money in an envelope.
The old woman gets the envelope and there is than 3.000 Baht inside.

The old woman is happy and I am sure she will vote for that group who helped her so generously.
About the 7.000 Baht missing she do not know. How could she?

This happened daily with all state projects from south to north and from west to east.

System error + unethical people = corruption

If the system would be better, then it would be much harder for unethical people to cheat.

It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

Best they send all old dinos with dirty/bloody/sticky hands and all convicted criminals to the desert,

the rest then, should consider together how to repair this system, and after then, elections.

This becomes more and more an anti corruption movement.

[pookiki]

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.

Actually this would work quite well for her being a women. looking at her with a sentimental attitude, with the support of the women, which by far outnumber the men, she would win. They say "The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world" the only problem as far as I can see, is that she has outside influence. I say keep her, and get rid Mr T's sidekicks in parliament, a move that would perhaps still rough waters.

Women voting for women is a bit naive, and more than a little insulting to the intelligence of women.

If Oz is a realistic example, almost every state has had a woman premier, and a female PM. They rarely lasted more than a single term once given the chance to show their incompetence.

I think most women would find your post insulting!

[whybother]

Thaksin wasn't on the electoral roll,

For the reasons I gave earlier, that was clearly beside the point. The electorate have a far better understanding of the nuances of Thai politics than most of the posters on TV give them credit for.

All of the policies you refer to were widely reported and understood as at that time coming from Thaksin.

Why does it matter where the policies came from? Most people voted for the policies, not for Thaksin.

[jackrich]

Does anyone find it funny that both Abhisit and Suthep are speaking right now. Abhisit calling on Yingluck to dissolve the house and Suthep saying that he will not accept her house dissolution.

The Democrats are split so badly it's ridiculous.

[whybother]

By the way,anyone know where is the meeting point for the anti-goverment protesters gather tomorrow morning?

I believe there are a few locations that they are meeting and then all marching to a central point.

[pookiki]

There will be another coup and most Thais will make a collective sigh of relief. The circus is over. Let the military be our guardians for a while to protect us from the parade of fools. Then what happens?

[jackrich]

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.

Actually this would work quite well for her being a women. looking at her with a sentimental attitude, with the support of the women, which by far outnumber the men, she would win. They say "The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world" the only problem as far as I can see, is that she has outside influence. I say keep her, and get rid Mr T's sidekicks in parliament, a move that would perhaps still rough waters.

Women voting for women is a bit naive, and more than a little insulting to the intelligence of women.

If Oz is a realistic example, almost every state has had a woman premier, and a female PM. They rarely lasted more than a single term once given the chance to show their incompetence.

Your lack of respect for women is disgusting.

Just shows what kind of attitude towards women these Suthep and Abhisit supporters are. No wonder their party is full of men with no women in real positions of power.

[pookiki]

Does anyone find it funny that both Abhisit and Suthep are speaking right now. Abhisit calling on Yingluck to dissolve the house and Suthep saying that he will not accept her house dissolution.

The Democrats are split so badly it's ridiculous.

They aren't split. Just contributing to the anarchy that will lead to military intervention.

[DrDweeb]

The Thai political system is faulty - it needs fixed and until it is fixed there is no point in holding elections

If any of you doubt what I have said above then look at the history - it doesn't lie

The current system creates polarisation with the people, it also allows sitting government to abuse power - lie - steal - corrupt - ignore laws - ignore the courts - create bias with supposed independent bodies such as the police and DSI, the list goes on

The whole this is a mess, how can you elect anyone into that

enough is enough I hope suthep is genuine we'll soon find out if he isn't and he too will be kicked into touch by the people

There is no such thing as a perfect democracy. The problem is that there is no acceptance of the democratic system even with the flaws. The Constitutional rewrite in 2006 was accomplished by whom? The Democrats fully expected to win the election after with this new Constitution but it didn't happen. As I see it, the minority party wants to keep rewriting the Constitution until it is so tilted to guarantee it rule by the minority. In addition, the military must not be a political entity unto itself as it is now. But do you honestly think any Constitution will accomplish that?

I must be on a different planet.

I am almost 100% certain that the PTP (the parliamentary majority at the moment) tried to change the constitution and it got knocked on the head by the Constitutional Court.

So, it is now the "minority party wants to keep rewriting the Constitution"???

You, are deluded.

The question posed is who wrote the 2006 Constitution? Not sure which planet you were when that happened .And is what manner did the 2006 Constitution change the previous Constitution in 1997. At any rate, yes, the CC court ruled against the PTP. The PTP tried to amend one part of the Constitution, not a complete rewrite. The amendment called for the Senate to be a fully elected body as it was in 1997. Fine, there were no elections for the Senate were there? Now, Suthep wants a People's Government starting with a People's Council. From what source does he draw his power other than his own desires? How can Suthep say he represents a majority of the Thai people? BUT -- so many people in this forum say that 'fair' elections are not possible. Too much corruption they say. Is Suthep and his daily diktats that answer or another coup? Frankly, I would prefer Prayuth to Suthep any day!

I wrote "change" which is a synonymn of "amend". I did not suggest that PTP attempted to rewrite the constitution. Your post is deliberate misdirection.

As for senate elections, well, their proposal was really just a way of stacking the deck. The amendment PTP wanted would have altered the structure of government, not something that should be allowed by simple legislative decision IMHO. I suggest you investigate how upper houses are in other elected (or not) in some other Westminster parliamentary systems.

I personally think Suthep has made a very bad tactical political decision and I doubt many want hi as a PM, but I am sure some do - not me particularly. His "People's council" thing will die a natural death.

I doubt whether Suthep wants a coup, that is a fantasy.

[DrDweeb]

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.

Actually this would work quite well for her being a women. looking at her with a sentimental attitude, with the support of the women, which by far outnumber the men, she would win. They say "The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world" the only problem as far as I can see, is that she has outside influence. I say keep her, and get rid Mr T's sidekicks in parliament, a move that would perhaps still rough waters.

Women voting for women is a bit naive, and more than a little insulting to the intelligence of women.

If Oz is a realistic example, almost every state has had a woman premier, and a female PM. They rarely lasted more than a single term once given the chance to show their incompetence.

Your lack of respect for women is disgusting.

Just shows what kind of attitude towards women these Suthep and Abhisit supporters are. No wonder their party is full of men with no women in real positions of power.

I am feeling a little bit pissed off this evening, so I will point out that your knee-jerk reaction says far more about you than the previous poster, who showed absolutely no disrepspect in his post (unless you count Julia Gillard as the target, but since she is an as yet unconvicted felon, I wouldn't defend her too much were I you)

[Smokemachine]

Geez, why can't Yingluck understand this?

Suthep does NOT want new elections because he or the Democrats can't win them.

They want a people's council who then elects the PM. The people of Thailand should not be allowed to vote anymore.only then will they achieve true Democracy.

Why is this so hard to understand, Yingluck? Geeeeeez....

You are wrong. YL knows well and she is playing the game. THat why no matter what, she can't accept Suthep request. Once people council set up, TS regime is over. Busted from Top to bottom.

[prighas]

Nobody cares anymore!

[DrDweeb]

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.

Actually this would work quite well for her being a women. looking at her with a sentimental attitude, with the support of the women, which by far outnumber the men, she would win. They say "The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world" the only problem as far as I can see, is that she has outside influence. I say keep her, and get rid Mr T's sidekicks in parliament, a move that would perhaps still rough waters.

Women voting for women is a bit naive, and more than a little insulting to the intelligence of women.

If Oz is a realistic example, almost every state has had a woman premier, and a female PM. They rarely lasted more than a single term once given the chance to show their incompetence.

I think most women would find your post insulting!

Why?

i) You cannot but agree with the first sentence

ii) The example of JG in Australia (and HTS in Denmark) are two perfect examples of women who had the ability to gain power, but no ability to actually run a government or maintain the respect of the populace.

There are no insults in that post. Your bigotry slip is showing and it isn't pretty!

If you meant to slam the previous poster, then learn to quote!

[JRSoul]

Actually this would work quite well for her being a women. looking at her with a sentimental attitude, with the support of the women, which by far outnumber the men, she would win. They say "The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world" the only problem as far as I can see, is that she has outside influence. I say keep her, and get rid Mr T's sidekicks in parliament, a move that would perhaps still rough waters.

Women voting for women is a bit naive, and more than a little insulting to the intelligence of women.

If Oz is a realistic example, almost every state has had a woman premier, and a female PM. They rarely lasted more than a single term once given the chance to show their incompetence.

Your lack of respect for women is disgusting.

Just shows what kind of attitude towards women these Suthep and Abhisit supporters are. No wonder their party is full of men with no women in real positions of power.

<deleted>? where is the lack of respect in saying that women are NOT naive enough to vote for someone BECAUSE she is of the same gender?

Or don't you like an historically accurate example?

Edited December 8, 2013 by JRSoul

[DrDweeb]

... quote cut ...

ROTFL

I am sorry, she is so intellectually incapable that it beggars belief. She is TS's bagman, literally, and now she is his puppet.

Nothing can change these two facts.

I doubt that a single intelligent thought has ever entered her head, and she certainly never demonstrates any ability to engage in intelligent discourse, in fact she avoids it at every opportunity according to the reports of her parliamentary performances.

And you think Suthep or the next Democrat puppet PM will be his own master?

Napoleon once said: In this life we are either kings or pawns, emperors or fools.

Another debate/logic failure from a TV poster.

Crikey there are some limited intellects here.

a) It is irrelevant what the next one will be like, to the issue of whether the current PM is a puppet

Napolean said a lot of things, and were I near my library I would provide you with some of his dumber quotes. In any case, relevance?

Tunnel vision and insulting others are some of your better qualities, huh?

I am merely making a statement of absolute logical truth. to wit. "It is irrelevant what the next one will be like, to the issue of whether the current PM is a puppet"

The inability to string logical thoughts together to form coherent argument shows limited intellect, live with it.

My stating of this contains no malice, it is just an abstract observation.

So, having accused me of Kalnienk vision (I think you probably meant something else, perhaps one-eyed?), demonstrate it.

Edited December 8, 2013 by DrDweeb

[badmedicine]

Thaksin wasn't on the electoral roll,

For the reasons I gave earlier, that was clearly beside the point. The electorate have a far better understanding of the nuances of Thai politics than most of the posters on TV give them credit for.

All of the policies you refer to were widely reported and understood as at that time coming from Thaksin.

Why does it matter where the policies came from? Most people voted for the policies, not for Thaksin.

Well, I made that point in response to an earlier poster who claimed that YS gov't was illegitimate because it was run by her brother who wasn't voted for. My point is that people knew full well WHO they were really voting for. I know lots of Thais from a broad spectrum of society, both pro-Rcd and pro-Yellow, rich and poor, and I've never met a single one that didn't think YS was a proxy for TS in 2011. Moreover, everyone realises that her recent denials are not either meant nor should be taken as true, only expedient (because if she were to say anything else that would legally constitute a reason for banning her party). Both the red and yellow supporters I know accept that, and neither think there's anything particularly worrisome about it. What they disagree on is not 'who really runs the country' but who should be running the country: Thaksin or the Democrats.

As both sides are busted flushes in terms of ever achieving a peaceful consensus, it's time they both started looking at changing themselves. The sooner TS's acolytes realise it'll never be 'business as usual' till they sacrifice him, the sooner they'll have a chance of slurping from the gravy train in peace. Equally, the sooner the Dems chuck Abhisit for a new leader AND start managing in a responsible, transparent way, the sooner they'll be able to win an election.

One thing is absolutely for sure: if both sides remain in the same status quo as they have done since 2004 (2006 was only the tipping point, it started before then), then there is only going to be more of the same whoever is in power.

Time for all sides to change. Get rid of the toxic leaders, and realise that only if you genuinely start offering to run the country half-properly are you ever going to be able to enjoy the privileges of the ruling classes in peace.

Edited December 8, 2013 by badmedicine

[DrDweeb]

...quotes cut ...

For the reasons I gave earlier, that was clearly beside the point. The electorate have a far better understanding of the nuances of Thai politics than most of the posters on TV give them credit for.

All of the policies you refer to were widely reported and understood as at that time coming from Thaksin.

Why does it matter where the policies came from? Most people voted for the policies, not for Thaksin.

Well, I made that point in response to an earlier poster who claimed that YS gov't was illegitimate because it was run by her brother who wasn't voted for. My point is that people knew full well WHO they were really voting for. I know lots of Thais from a broad spectrum of society, both pro-Rcd and pro-Yellow, rich and poor, and I've never met a single one that didn't think YS was a proxy for TS in 2011. Moreover, everyone realises that her recent denials are not either meant nor should be taken as true, only expedient (because if she were to say anything else that would legally constitute a reason for banning her party). Both the red and yellow supporters I know accept that, and neither think there's anything particularly worrisome about it. What they disagree on is not 'who really runs the country' but who should be running the country: Thaksin or the Democrats.

As both sides are busted flushes in terms of ever achieving a peaceful consensus, it's time they both started looking at changing themselves. The sooner TS's acolytes realise it'll never be 'business as usual' till they sacrifice him, the sooner they'll have a chance of slurping from the gravy train in peace. Equally, the sooner the Dems chuck Abhisit for a new leader AND start managing in a responsible, transparent way, the sooner they'll be able to win an election.

One thing is absolutely for sure: if both sides remain in the same status quo as they have done since 2004 (2006 was only the tipping point, it started before then), then there is only going to be more of the same whoever is in power.

Time for all sides to change. Get rid of the toxic leaders, and realise that only if you genuinely start offering to run the country half-properly are you ever going to be able to enjoy the privileges of the ruling classes in peace.

Oh dear, you are actually calling for responsible government?

That will never do ... tsk tsk.

Now go to bed without your pudding!

[badmedicine]

Oh dear, you are actually calling for responsible government?

Irony noted, but there's nothing idealistic about it. The point the elites on both sides will have to eventually realise is it's in their own best interests. It's not really a matter of "if" they'll do it, it's just a matter of "when" or how long its going to take them to figure out that's the answer that best serves their own self-interest.

The fact that serving their own self-interest rationally will benefit Thailand as a whole is inconsequential to them, but a fortunate pay-off for the rest of us.

[Jim walker]

60 Days for elections lets go for it so that we can start the circle for protests again

[Siripon]

Well, I made that point in response to an earlier poster who claimed that YS gov't was illegitimate because it was run by her brother who wasn't voted for. My point is that people knew full well WHO they were really voting for. I know lots of Thais from a broad spectrum of society, both pro-Rcd and pro-Yellow, rich and poor, and I've never met a single one that didn't think YS was a proxy for TS in 2011. Moreover, everyone realises that her recent denials are not either meant nor should be taken as true, only expedient (because if she were to say anything else that would legally constitute a reason for banning her party). Both the red and yellow supporters I know accept that, and neither think there's anything particularly worrisome about it. What they disagree on is not 'who really runs the country' but who should be running the country: Thaksin or the Democrats.

As both sides are busted flushes in terms of ever achieving a peaceful consensus, it's time they both started looking at changing themselves. The sooner TS's acolytes realise it'll never be 'business as usual' till they sacrifice him, the sooner they'll have a chance of slurping from the gravy train in peace. Equally, the sooner the Dems chuck Abhisit for a new leader AND start managing in a responsible, transparent way, the sooner they'll be able to win an election.

One thing is absolutely for sure: if both sides remain in the same status quo as they have done since 2004 (2006 was only the tipping point, it started before then), then there is only going to be more of the same whoever is in power.

Time for all sides to change. Get rid of the toxic leaders, and realise that only if you genuinely start offering to run the country half-properly are you ever going to be able to enjoy the privileges of the ruling classes in peace.

It would be a lot easier for the Democrats to ditch Apisit than Pheau Thai dispose of the Shinawats.