Elites versus the grass-roots is a dangerous myth: Thai editorial

[rjcampbe]

Sorry Valentine, but you are wrong on that one...

Just a little over a month ago I went with my wife's family to a polling station in her hometown in Issan for a local election where I literally watched as they handed 1000 baht notes to each person as they went in to vote.

I watched it with my own eyes... so don't tell me that it doesn't happen.

I've never, from personal experience, seen this in the South. What with the rice pledging scam, together with the fact that the overwhelming bar tarts here on Phuket suggests that the N NE are more easily bought? And no, by no means are all Southerners 'rich'. Well done, you married into an entire family of the easily bought/persuaded/ignorant.

To moderators: Before I begin, I would note that jpeg's comment is a far greater personal attack on me than some other things I have recently posted that you took exception to... but I have no interest in having you censor it because jpeg's inane comments only serve to prove the point I have been making about the ignorant and arrogant views that many foreigners on this forum have about the political situation in this country.

To jpeg:

Don't you think it is kind of a cheap shot to turn a discussion about vote buying into a personal attack on my wife and her family? Let's stay on topic... ok?

In response, let me say that my wife's family are hard working people who are prime examples of the rural people who have been suppressed by the elitist system in this country for centuries. Her grandparents are some of the sweetest and most generous people I've ever met and they have little education and no wealth beyond the value of their farm land. My wife's parents have worked tirelessly for over 25 years to provide for the family and through hard work, selfless sacrifice, and good sense, they have built up a respectable land holding that has put their two daughters through school, the youngest just graduating from a major university in Bangkok.

If you saw them on the street you would think they had nothing... They are simple people with a strong work ethic and they are as concerned about the future of the country as you or anyone else.

That said, they are influenced by the limited education they have received, neither of them completed high school. They are influenced by the propaganda they have been exposed to since birth, as we all are influenced by the world we grow up in... So, they do align themselves with the PTP, but that doesn't mean they think Thaksin walks on water and they don't believe everything PTP says or agree with everything it does. Just like I don't agree with everything political parties say or do back in the states. And I assume you are the same...

They didn't "sell" their vote to the highest bidder... they didn't change their vote because of who was paying... they took the money that was offered because they needed the money. If you were a product of the system here... if you were going to vote for PTP anyway, and somebody was going to give you money you needed to do something you were going to do anyway... would you take it?

I think you would. Just like you would vote for one party of the other back home when they promise you a tax cut or a new health care system...

While you and I may agree that it isn't right to do this, and you can say it is because they can be "bought/persuaded/ignorant", what you fail to recognize is that when people live at a subsistence level, they don't have the luxury of worrying about ideological principles that you and I can fret and wring our hands about... they are worried about putting food on the table. That is how most rural people in this country live, day by day. And that is directly because of the oppression of the ruling elite that has systematically prevented these people from receiving the education they need to advance their lives intellectually and economically.

My in-laws know the impact that the lack of education and opportunity has had on their lives. That is why they made it a priority to educate their children so they are better equipped to be a part of Thailand's future.

[jimsrant]

not protesters another paid for mob - free travel, free food and 800 to a 1000 baht a day - no different in any way to the last mob just this one gets paid a bit more -

this is about Power, Influence and Money and you couldn't put a hair between the two sides except for their idealogical differences - the poor account for the majority on both sides and they are, on both sides, inadequately educated - the fault of all successive governments - democracy does not require a certain IQ and until both sides learn to work together this will never go away - Peoples Councils or not

[UncleJ]

I will always give the poor the benefit of the doubt.

Anybody that wants to take away their vote is a scoundrel.

[Gsxrnz]

The editorial from The Nation is rubbish.

I think it finally gets to the point in the last sentence, but it does a terrible job of making the argument all the way through.

I agree that when you strip away all the other noise, most Thai's want a clean and accountable democracy. It is unfortunate that very few have any idea what that actually means or how to accomplish it.

This conflict IS about rich vs. poor. It IS about the elite vs. the peasantry. It IS about the educated vs. the non educated.

But more significantly, it IS about CLASS WARFARE that is designed to maintain the status quo for those in power.

Anybody who says differently is either ignoring the facts or deliberately trying to deceive you. In most cases, this obfuscation is accomplished by the monotonous political bickering about who was MORE corrupt than the other...

I have no love or interest for either side, beyond the prudent concern about the stability of the country I live in. I also acknowledge my own bias that I believe in equal opportunity and that everyone should abide by the same rules.

The fact is that the elite in this country (whether you call them yellow shirts, democrats, elite, rich, or whatever) have systematically ensured that the game is slanted in their favor for hundreds of years. They accept, support, condone and encourage the high level of corruption inherent in this patronage system because it allows them to achieve their goals of raping and pillaging whatever they want. The scale of the corruption varies depending upon the means of the player, but it all leads to a system where the poor are excluded and suppressed.

For many decades, the ruling elite have failed to deliver a functioning education system in the country, opting to educate their own children in International schools or abroad, in order to stunt the development of those less fortunate. This practice is so entrenched in the country that most of the population has an education that would not qualify them for ENTRY into high school in a developed country.

These same "elite" have failed to create the political environment, infrastructure improvements, and legal and regulatory environment, to encourage foreign investment that would create jobs and stimulate economic growth in the country that could help lift the poor out of poverty. They are more interested in the personal gain from kickbacks, tea money, and official scams and corruption than in developing the economy for the good of the country and the people.

The exact cost of the corruption will never be known. It has been estimated that it is billions of baht that get siphoned off of every business deal, every transaction, and every project, that goes into the hands of corrupt business men, government officials, police, and military. This money is shared up the chain with the patrons of the elite who stand by blindly and enable this theft from the future of Thailand.

So, with that backdrop... along comes Thaksin... He is as rich and corrupt as any of them... But he is smarter. He brands himself as the "champion of the downtrodden" and he gains their support. If we are honest, there are probably a couple of programs that he supported that were needed and seriously beneficial to the poor, but most of it was pork barrel, populist policies and vote buying.

Thaksin harnessed the discontent of the poor who had been excluded for so long and successfully positioned himself as the leader to solve their problems. Meanwhile, he filled his pockets as fast as he could like all the rest. However, what he DID accomplish was to unite the rural people behind a cause. Even if that cause was largely a sham... This fact shifted the balance of power between the rural poor and the urban elite and led to the situation we have today... where both of sides will do whatever is necessary in order to remove the other side from power without respect for the constitution or parliamentary rules... by demonstrations and protest, by legal action, or by military coup.

Their ends justify their means and they will do anything and say anything to hold onto power. Meanwhile, the people are being used like pawns in the game listening to all the Red vs. Yellow propaganda... They just can't see that both parties are the same... And sadly, many on this forum can't see it either.

There are only two way's forward...

One is to respect the rules of the constitution to address various problems... Whether that is corruption of officials, having the fugitive Ex PM involved in the government policies, or anything else. It should be dealt with according to the rules defined in the constitution and should apply evenly to both sides. When parties / officials say "We don't recognize the ruling of the constitutional court" there is clearly a problem...

THE ONLY way forward that does not involve more bloodshed is to ignore the rhetoric on both sides and RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW.

I think you already know what the other way would be...

Your editorial is worth publishing. Well written, unbiased, and gets to the core of the matter that anybody (Thai or European) waving any coloured flag fails to see or acknowledge.

[tingtongteesood]

Good article in its brief overview, shame it didn't go further and fill in all the details. The current uprising is against the grip the Shin clan have on power. For over a decade they have used their positions to abuse their power and enrich themselves. Thaksin is one of the richest Thai people ever, if he loves the poor so much then how come he is so rich and they are still in a great many cases just as poor now as they were 10 years ago ? How maany promises have gone unfulfilled ? Do us all a favour and let someone else have a go and see if they can do better at running the country than you and your cronies did. You have drained enough case from this country for many lifetimes already.

[Old Man River]

It's just that hasn't been settled yet. How to get rid of yingluck and not have any elections yet apparently still love democracy.

Yep.

It could come through the courts.

[billd766]

Trying to explain this to people outside Thailand is like banging your head against a brick wall. They actually believe the BS written by a few biased international journalists.

And we all know The Nation is a shining example of homegrown impartiality.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So why do you read it and use a forum that is allied to it?

For the ignorant, would you care to elaborate on this "alliance"? Because I was not aware Thaivisa was a politically aligned forum. If it is, I want my money back.

AFAIK ThaiVisaForum is part sponsored by the Nation newspaper. This is one reason why people cannot quote from the Bangkok Post in here. I cannot find the information at this time but if you need more information ask George whose forum it is.

[Thai at Heart]

even it is a conspiracy from middle class... they are the only one paying taxes to give away their money to people who never pay anything and only take the benefits

hey, this sounds a lot like our home countries where unwilling to work people get everything for free

The amount of people paying income tax here suggests it is the very upper middle paying. There are so few taxpayers they definitely don't make anything approaching a majority.

[gemini81]

even it is a conspiracy from middle class... they are the only one paying taxes to give away their money to people who never pay anything and only take the benefits

hey, this sounds a lot like our home countries where unwilling to work people get everything for free

The amount of people paying income tax here suggests it is the very upper middle paying. There are so few taxpayers they definitely don't make anything approaching a majority.

And as long as one feels like a victim, has a poor work ethic and doesn't strive for more, they'll stay in that situation. As it applies to all the welfare junkies that spring to mind back home.

As for 'elite' that is really subjective in a small banana republic. Abhisit was said to not have over 30-40 million, which can't be elite (unless you're a TV poster with a red shirt girl) and thaksin swindled all his, and is not the richest in Thailand. And even the most elite here are DWARFED compared to the likes of Saudi oil company CEO's, Rockefellers, Rothschilds...none of them are even players in the game on a world level.

Its silly to call Suthep and his supporters elite, while the reds are the opposite. The money on the red side just stays in the pockets of their leaders. The whole thing is really a 3rd world game that reoccurs time & again, but seems to little impact on the world level.

Edited December 11, 2013 by gemini81

[rjcampbe]

The editorial from The Nation is rubbish.

I think it finally gets to the point in the last sentence, but it does a terrible job of making the argument all the way through.

I agree that when you strip away all the other noise, most Thai's want a clean and accountable democracy. It is unfortunate that very few have any idea what that actually means or how to accomplish it.

This conflict IS about rich vs. poor. It IS about the elite vs. the peasantry. It IS about the educated vs. the non educated.

But more significantly, it IS about CLASS WARFARE that is designed to maintain the status quo for those in power.

Anybody who says differently is either ignoring the facts or deliberately trying to deceive you. In most cases, this obfuscation is accomplished by the monotonous political bickering about who was MORE corrupt than the other...

I have no love or interest for either side, beyond the prudent concern about the stability of the country I live in. I also acknowledge my own bias that I believe in equal opportunity and that everyone should abide by the same rules.

The fact is that the elite in this country (whether you call them yellow shirts, democrats, elite, rich, or whatever) have systematically ensured that the game is slanted in their favor for hundreds of years. They accept, support, condone and encourage the high level of corruption inherent in this patronage system because it allows them to achieve their goals of raping and pillaging whatever they want. The scale of the corruption varies depending upon the means of the player, but it all leads to a system where the poor are excluded and suppressed.

For many decades, the ruling elite have failed to deliver a functioning education system in the country, opting to educate their own children in International schools or abroad, in order to stunt the development of those less fortunate. This practice is so entrenched in the country that most of the population has an education that would not qualify them for ENTRY into high school in a developed country.

These same "elite" have failed to create the political environment, infrastructure improvements, and legal and regulatory environment, to encourage foreign investment that would create jobs and stimulate economic growth in the country that could help lift the poor out of poverty. They are more interested in the personal gain from kickbacks, tea money, and official scams and corruption than in developing the economy for the good of the country and the people.

The exact cost of the corruption will never be known. It has been estimated that it is billions of baht that get siphoned off of every business deal, every transaction, and every project, that goes into the hands of corrupt business men, government officials, police, and military. This money is shared up the chain with the patrons of the elite who stand by blindly and enable this theft from the future of Thailand.

So, with that backdrop... along comes Thaksin... He is as rich and corrupt as any of them... But he is smarter. He brands himself as the "champion of the downtrodden" and he gains their support. If we are honest, there are probably a couple of programs that he supported that were needed and seriously beneficial to the poor, but most of it was pork barrel, populist policies and vote buying.

Thaksin harnessed the discontent of the poor who had been excluded for so long and successfully positioned himself as the leader to solve their problems. Meanwhile, he filled his pockets as fast as he could like all the rest. However, what he DID accomplish was to unite the rural people behind a cause. Even if that cause was largely a sham... This fact shifted the balance of power between the rural poor and the urban elite and led to the situation we have today... where both of sides will do whatever is necessary in order to remove the other side from power without respect for the constitution or parliamentary rules... by demonstrations and protest, by legal action, or by military coup.

Their ends justify their means and they will do anything and say anything to hold onto power. Meanwhile, the people are being used like pawns in the game listening to all the Red vs. Yellow propaganda... They just can't see that both parties are the same... And sadly, many on this forum can't see it either.

There are only two way's forward...

One is to respect the rules of the constitution to address various problems... Whether that is corruption of officials, having the fugitive Ex PM involved in the government policies, or anything else. It should be dealt with according to the rules defined in the constitution and should apply evenly to both sides. When parties / officials say "We don't recognize the ruling of the constitutional court" there is clearly a problem...

THE ONLY way forward that does not involve more bloodshed is to ignore the rhetoric on both sides and RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW.

I think you already know what the other way would be...

Your editorial is worth publishing. Well written, unbiased, and gets to the core of the matter that anybody (Thai or European) waving any coloured flag fails to see or acknowledge.

Thank you for your kind comments. Much appreciated.

[Thai at Heart]

even it is a conspiracy from middle class... they are the only one paying taxes to give away their money to people who never pay anything and only take the benefits

hey, this sounds a lot like our home countries where unwilling to work people get everything for free

The amount of people paying income tax here suggests it is the very upper middle paying. There are so few taxpayers they definitely don't make anything approaching a majority.

And as long as one feels like a victim, has a poor work ethic and doesn't strive for more, they'll stay in that situation. As it applies to all the welfare junkies that spring to mind back home.

As for 'elite' that is really subjective in a small banana republic. Abhisit was said to not have over 30-40 million, which can't be elite (unless you're a TV poster with a red shirt girl) and thaksin swindled all his, and is not the richest in Thailand. And even the most elite here are DWARFED compared to the likes of Saudi oil company CEO's, Rockefellers, Rothschilds...none of them are even players in the game on a world level.

Its silly to call Suthep and his supporters elite, while the reds are the opposite. The money on the red side just stays in the pockets of their leaders. The whole thing is really a 3rd world game that reoccurs time & again, but seems to little impact on the world level.

They are elite by thai standards and some of them are gargantually rich. Some are up there by global business standards

Claiming that in some way the monies paid out to farmers represent some kind of social money trap as though this is Europe and we are on fox news is incredibly disongenuous.

The politicians on Suthep side built the agribusiness model for Thailand and some people got incredibly wealthy and farmers got f*****d. That is the bare reality.

Rectifying or modifying it is not some communist peril, it is I would say a moral obligation to your fellow man.

Comparing the relative wealth of sovereigns isn't a conversation we can have here but not a very good example.on your part.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[Siripon]

The editorial from The Nation is rubbish.

I think it finally gets to the point in the last sentence, but it does a terrible job of making the argument all the way through.

I agree that when you strip away all the other noise, most Thai's want a clean and accountable democracy. It is unfortunate that very few have any idea what that actually means or how to accomplish it.

This conflict IS about rich vs. poor. It IS about the elite vs. the peasantry. It IS about the educated vs. the non educated.

But more significantly, it IS about CLASS WARFARE that is designed to maintain the status quo for those in power.

Anybody who says differently is either ignoring the facts or deliberately trying to deceive you. In most cases, this obfuscation is accomplished by the monotonous political bickering about who was MORE corrupt than the other...

I have no love or interest for either side, beyond the prudent concern about the stability of the country I live in. I also acknowledge my own bias that I believe in equal opportunity and that everyone should abide by the same rules.

The fact is that the elite in this country (whether you call them yellow shirts, democrats, elite, rich, or whatever) have systematically ensured that the game is slanted in their favor for hundreds of years. They accept, support, condone and encourage the high level of corruption inherent in this patronage system because it allows them to achieve their goals of raping and pillaging whatever they want. The scale of the corruption varies depending upon the means of the player, but it all leads to a system where the poor are excluded and suppressed.

For many decades, the ruling elite have failed to deliver a functioning education system in the country, opting to educate their own children in International schools or abroad, in order to stunt the development of those less fortunate. This practice is so entrenched in the country that most of the population has an education that would not qualify them for ENTRY into high school in a developed country.

These same "elite" have failed to create the political environment, infrastructure improvements, and legal and regulatory environment, to encourage foreign investment that would create jobs and stimulate economic growth in the country that could help lift the poor out of poverty. They are more interested in the personal gain from kickbacks, tea money, and official scams and corruption than in developing the economy for the good of the country and the people.

The exact cost of the corruption will never be known. It has been estimated that it is billions of baht that get siphoned off of every business deal, every transaction, and every project, that goes into the hands of corrupt business men, government officials, police, and military. This money is shared up the chain with the patrons of the elite who stand by blindly and enable this theft from the future of Thailand.

So, with that backdrop... along comes Thaksin... He is as rich and corrupt as any of them... But he is smarter. He brands himself as the "champion of the downtrodden" and he gains their support. If we are honest, there are probably a couple of programs that he supported that were needed and seriously beneficial to the poor, but most of it was pork barrel, populist policies and vote buying.

Thaksin harnessed the discontent of the poor who had been excluded for so long and successfully positioned himself as the leader to solve their problems. Meanwhile, he filled his pockets as fast as he could like all the rest. However, what he DID accomplish was to unite the rural people behind a cause. Even if that cause was largely a sham... This fact shifted the balance of power between the rural poor and the urban elite and led to the situation we have today... where both of sides will do whatever is necessary in order to remove the other side from power without respect for the constitution or parliamentary rules... by demonstrations and protest, by legal action, or by military coup.

Their ends justify their means and they will do anything and say anything to hold onto power. Meanwhile, the people are being used like pawns in the game listening to all the Red vs. Yellow propaganda... They just can't see that both parties are the same... And sadly, many on this forum can't see it either.

There are only two way's forward...

One is to respect the rules of the constitution to address various problems... Whether that is corruption of officials, having the fugitive Ex PM involved in the government policies, or anything else. It should be dealt with according to the rules defined in the constitution and should apply evenly to both sides. When parties / officials say "We don't recognize the ruling of the constitutional court" there is clearly a problem...

THE ONLY way forward that does not involve more bloodshed is to ignore the rhetoric on both sides and RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW.

I think you already know what the other way would be...

Your editorial is worth publishing. Well written, unbiased, and gets to the core of the matter that anybody (Thai or European) waving any coloured flag fails to see or acknowledge.

Thank you for your kind comments. Much appreciated.

A good comment from rjcampbe above and the key to solving the impasse is for Pheua Thai to rid themselves of the shackles of Thaksin and his family and actually be a party that puts the country's interests first rather than being beholden to one man.

That achieved, the gap between liberal and progressive members of the Democrats and some Pheau Tha MPs will narrow.

But the Shinawat influence has to be a thing of the past.

[UncleJ]

The editorial from The Nation is rubbish.

I think it finally gets to the point in the last sentence, but it does a terrible job of making the argument all the way through.

I agree that when you strip away all the other noise, most Thai's want a clean and accountable democracy. It is unfortunate that very few have any idea what that actually means or how to accomplish it.

This conflict IS about rich vs. poor. It IS about the elite vs. the peasantry. It IS about the educated vs. the non educated.

But more significantly, it IS about CLASS WARFARE that is designed to maintain the status quo for those in power.

Anybody who says differently is either ignoring the facts or deliberately trying to deceive you. In most cases, this obfuscation is accomplished by the monotonous political bickering about who was MORE corrupt than the other...

I have no love or interest for either side, beyond the prudent concern about the stability of the country I live in. I also acknowledge my own bias that I believe in equal opportunity and that everyone should abide by the same rules.

The fact is that the elite in this country (whether you call them yellow shirts, democrats, elite, rich, or whatever) have systematically ensured that the game is slanted in their favor for hundreds of years. They accept, support, condone and encourage the high level of corruption inherent in this patronage system because it allows them to achieve their goals of raping and pillaging whatever they want. The scale of the corruption varies depending upon the means of the player, but it all leads to a system where the poor are excluded and suppressed.

For many decades, the ruling elite have failed to deliver a functioning education system in the country, opting to educate their own children in International schools or abroad, in order to stunt the development of those less fortunate. This practice is so entrenched in the country that most of the population has an education that would not qualify them for ENTRY into high school in a developed country.

These same "elite" have failed to create the political environment, infrastructure improvements, and legal and regulatory environment, to encourage foreign investment that would create jobs and stimulate economic growth in the country that could help lift the poor out of poverty. They are more interested in the personal gain from kickbacks, tea money, and official scams and corruption than in developing the economy for the good of the country and the people.

The exact cost of the corruption will never be known. It has been estimated that it is billions of baht that get siphoned off of every business deal, every transaction, and every project, that goes into the hands of corrupt business men, government officials, police, and military. This money is shared up the chain with the patrons of the elite who stand by blindly and enable this theft from the future of Thailand.

So, with that backdrop... along comes Thaksin... He is as rich and corrupt as any of them... But he is smarter. He brands himself as the "champion of the downtrodden" and he gains their support. If we are honest, there are probably a couple of programs that he supported that were needed and seriously beneficial to the poor, but most of it was pork barrel, populist policies and vote buying.

Thaksin harnessed the discontent of the poor who had been excluded for so long and successfully positioned himself as the leader to solve their problems. Meanwhile, he filled his pockets as fast as he could like all the rest. However, what he DID accomplish was to unite the rural people behind a cause. Even if that cause was largely a sham... This fact shifted the balance of power between the rural poor and the urban elite and led to the situation we have today... where both of sides will do whatever is necessary in order to remove the other side from power without respect for the constitution or parliamentary rules... by demonstrations and protest, by legal action, or by military coup.

Their ends justify their means and they will do anything and say anything to hold onto power. Meanwhile, the people are being used like pawns in the game listening to all the Red vs. Yellow propaganda... They just can't see that both parties are the same... And sadly, many on this forum can't see it either.

There are only two way's forward...

One is to respect the rules of the constitution to address various problems... Whether that is corruption of officials, having the fugitive Ex PM involved in the government policies, or anything else. It should be dealt with according to the rules defined in the constitution and should apply evenly to both sides. When parties / officials say "We don't recognize the ruling of the constitutional court" there is clearly a problem...

THE ONLY way forward that does not involve more bloodshed is to ignore the rhetoric on both sides and RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW.

I think you already know what the other way would be...

Your editorial is worth publishing. Well written, unbiased, and gets to the core of the matter that anybody (Thai or European) waving any coloured flag fails to see or acknowledge.

Thank you for your kind comments. Much appreciated.

A good comment from rjcampbe above and the key to solving the impasse is for Pheua Thai to rid themselves of the shackles of Thaksin and his family and actually be a party that puts the country's interests first rather than being beholden to one man.

That achieved, the gap between liberal and progressive members of the Democrats and some Pheau Tha MPs will narrow.

But the Shinawat influence has to be a thing of the past.

The impasse is due to the wrong team winning the elections.

Blaming the majority for electing Thaksin's people is absurd.

[ggold]

Pure BS. It is not a case of elite against grass roots. The Shin dynasty are just as elite, if not more so than any of the democrats or their backers.

What we are witnessing is a classic case of educated versus uneducated. So simple really, once you understand.

The question being who is educated, as the elite in control at the moment (PTP) seem to be a pretty uneducated lot IMO!

[Thai at Heart]

Pure BS. It is not a case of elite against grass roots. The Shin dynasty are just as elite, if not more so than any of the democrats or their backers.

What we are witnessing is a classic case of educated versus uneducated. So simple really, once you understand.

The question being who is educated, as the elite in control at the moment (PTP) seem to be a pretty uneducated lot IMO!

Don't forget the overwhelming majority of them went through the thai school system 30,years ago.

Just think about that. Its amazing the country is in as good a shape as it is.

[Briggsy]

Ahh, the foreign press have got it all wrong as they cannot understand Thai politics. Thanks, The Nation for explaining that.

I have felt the foreign press have gone to great pains to state accurately what is happening. Listen and read carefully to what they say and you will see it is carefully worded for accuracy.

The reason that most Westerners, not familiar with Thailand, cannot grasp what is going on is because a patron-client based, hierarchically-structured society is completely alien to them. The concept that you would vote for a party, not matter what their policies were because your or bor tor (lowest level of local politician) or managing director told everyone in the village or company to vote for that party sounds bonkers in the west. Thus Westerners need to fall back on concepts they are familiar with such as voting along class lines or voting along regional lines or voting according to the party's policies.

[UncleJ]

Pure BS. It is not a case of elite against grass roots. The Shin dynasty are just as elite, if not more so than any of the democrats or their backers.

What we are witnessing is a classic case of educated versus uneducated. So simple really, once you understand.

The question being who is educated, as the elite in control at the moment (PTP) seem to be a pretty uneducated lot IMO!

Don't forget the overwhelming majority of them went through the thai school system 30,years ago.

Just think about that. Its amazing the country is in as good a shape as it is.

Parent to teacher: "Listen up! My kid needs straight A's. He's gonna be a Senator someday."

[TomTao]

not protesters another paid for mob - free travel, free food and 800 to a 1000 baht a day - no different in any way to the last mob just this one gets paid a bit more -

this is about Power, Influence and Money and you couldn't put a hair between the two sides except for their idealogical differences - the poor account for the majority on both sides and they are, on both sides, inadequately educated - the fault of all successive governments - democracy does not require a certain IQ and until both sides learn to work together this will never go away - Peoples Councils or not

I have heard of the free travel and food, especially early in the protest, but my wife's sister and cousin made no mention about receiving any payment for attending the protest, I did hear that quite a few busses and mini-busses left from this area last weekend, that is Chumphon, I also saw heard of people driving thier own vehicles up, and about a group of people getting together and paying 800 Baht each to hire mini-busses to go up to Bangkok, it seams that the people in this area have a passion to change something they believe is damaging thier country, a cause to which they have to add thier voices to, not a passion for money.