Handing power to Suthep 'no way to fight corruption'

[dunque]

Thailand faces the problems of corruption and abuse of power, as well as the so-called "tyranny of the majority", but people who feel frustrated should not try to tackle these problems by dismantling the existing democratic system as it won't solve anything, noted Thammasat University political scientist Kasian Tejapira said yesterday.

Democratic system??? WHAT DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM??? In a Thai Style autocracy you only have two choices:

1. Vote buying

2. Mob-coup ousting

Don't give us that CRAP that either parties call DEMOCRACY

I think Mr. Kasian is just another one of these brainwashed high status, high degree, but brainless, clueless academics who wouldn't give a dam_n about young student's independent different points of view thinking, and just brought his political statement up, to look soooo democratically worried about the democracy in Thailand.... Pretty face in the news,... academic old SCUM fart

I am sure democracy is so much more sophisticated in your country - care to share where this is ?

[mimithewoof]

Thailand faces the problems of corruption and abuse of power, as well as the so-called "tyranny of the majority", but people who feel frustrated should not try to tackle these problems by dismantling the existing democratic system as it won't solve anything, noted Thammasat University political scientist Kasian Tejapira said yesterday.

Democratic system??? WHAT DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM??? In a Thai Style autocracy you only have two choices:

1. Vote buying

2. Mob-coup ousting

Don't give us that CRAP that either parties call DEMOCRACY

I think Mr. Kasian is just another one of these brainwashed high status, high degree, but brainless, clueless academics who wouldn't give a dam_n about young student's independent different points of view thinking, and just brought his political statement up, to look soooo democratically worried about the democracy in Thailand.... Pretty face in the news,... academic old SCUM fart:clap2:

I am sure democracy is so much more sophisticated in your country - care to share where this is ?

Khun Kasian's article is one of the most clearly-thought out and thought-provoking I've read over the last month, as it's an unemotional take on the issue.

Comments ending in abuse should have no place in these forum discussions, especially now as the expat community is hardly likely to be in favour should a dictatorship be the result of this chaos. I used to joke that we're all here until someone pulls a Robert Mugawe stunt in Thailand - I'm not laughing now.

Use some common sense, guys.

[DK2223]

Suthep and the Dems had their chance to change the system only three years ago when they held the reins of power so how come they passed that opportunity up? Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Correct, when they are the government, they have the right to do anything like set up the people council and fight corruption but then didn't happen. Why? For me because corruption is a practice in every politician or people with power. Just ask him a very good question, where is all the money come from to set up a protest rally that we know cause a lot of money? and he is on the stage using the words " Stop Corruption". What he is saying to get the support from the people is really a joke.

[Ulic]

I'm sorry but what is a 'political scientist'? As Richard Feynmann said (look him up) 'if it ain't got maths it ain't science'...

So are you saying biology is not a science? Some may put it differently, if it has math, its mathematics.

There is a lot of statistical analysis in political science, does that math qualify it?

Edited December 13, 2013 by Ulic

[jaidam]

I'll see your Phuket land scandal and I'll raise you an Alpine.

[SamMunich]

CWMacMurray wrote:

I agree with some of what you are saying, but to me it does not seem that their is a problem with the democratic elections...

To me it seems that the problem with law enforcement and prosecution of politicians breaking the current laws that are in the books

Vote buying is already illegal, corruption is already illegal.... If more enforcement and jailing was done done of the those guilty of crimes it would clean up the process quickly
...

___________________________________________

Of course you're right, the laws are in place, only nobody dares to enforce them. So they are trying to go the other way round: make the election law more stringent. With propably the same result as before: Not able to enforce them. And prone to mis-use. And live-threatening for any whistleblower (Oops, pun alarm <g>).

Let's not forget, elections here are not only about power, they are also about heaps of money!

So: what to do? What is the right (and most promising) way to proceed? And how can anybody think, the "Action Man" Suthep will have the answers?

Sam

[Emptyset]

Thailand faces the problems of corruption and abuse of power, as well as the so-called "tyranny of the majority", but people who feel frustrated should not try to tackle these problems by dismantling the existing democratic system as it won't solve anything, noted Thammasat University political scientist Kasian Tejapira said yesterday.

Democratic system??? WHAT DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM??? In a Thai Style autocracy you only have two choices:

1. Vote buying

2. Mob-coup ousting

Don't give us that CRAP that either parties call DEMOCRACY

I think Mr. Kasian is just another one of these brainwashed high status, high degree, but brainless, clueless academics who wouldn't give a dam_n about young student's independent different points of view thinking, and just brought his political statement up, to look soooo democratically worried about the democracy in Thailand.... Pretty face in the news,... academic old SCUM fart:clap2:

I am sure democracy is so much more sophisticated in your country - care to share where this is ?

Khun Kasian's article is one of the most clearly-thought out and thought-provoking I've read over the last month, as it's an unemotional take on the issue.

Comments ending in abuse should have no place in these forum discussions, especially now as the expat community is hardly likely to be in favour should a dictatorship be the result of this chaos. I used to joke that we're all here until someone pulls a Robert Mugawe stunt in Thailand - I'm not laughing now.

Use some common sense, guys.

Yep. Though MaxLee's comments are not to be taken seriously, he couldn't be further from the truth. I've spoken to Ajarn Kasian online and know people that have been taught by him. Not only is he highly respected internationally by those in the field, he also seems to be a decent guy that makes time for people, unlike many of those in similar academic positions.

He's also been consistently anti-Thaksin, yet unlike many others that are anti-Thaksin, he isn't willing to see democracy destroyed in order to defeat one man. See his excellent take down of Thaksin, 'Toppling Thaksin', published in the New Left Review in 2006 and available online for an example of his stance and indepedence of thought.

[blaze]

Replying to Sam Munich

"Create something that works?"

Do you have any idea how long it has taken so called 'developed democracies' to get to the point where it doesn't even occur to people to demand a halt in elections?

Do you know that every democracy struggles with the same issues that Thailand deals with- cronyism, perception of conflict of interest- populism?

Do you understand that a political culture has less to do with 'politics' than the basic perceptions about things like 'equality' and 'citizenship' and 'social contract' than it does with institutions?

Do you understand that every political system interacts with the culture - you don't tinker with the system and hope the culture catches up.

And that the reason that WE do not have our nations plunged into anarchy followed by dictatorship every few years is becase WE recognize that democracy is a work in progress!

We remember too well when hair brained idealists preaching utopias came upon the scene.

We tolerated rotten governments, incompetent governments, and yes, corrupt governments- and slowly slowly slowly WE have made democracy increasingly responsive to the hightest ideals of our nation and of its citizenry- And it took a LONG TIME.

And we know we have MILES to go before we can rest.

But we did NOT after 1945 throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We learned that those preaching utopian crap like 'end to corruption'- 'brave new world' 'pure society' 'absolute democracy' would only lead us into a very dark and bloody place.

And you think a handful of Thais are going to get together and hammer out in a few months something the rest of the world hasn't been able to figure out?

We KNOW our democracies are vulnerable, flawed, subject to every kind of inefficiency and incompetence- and yes, corruption- (check out the latest scandals in Quebec- in the Canadian senate-- )

But we also know the alternative.

Despite the utopianism of the neo Maoists in China, the Khmer Rouge- all of whom sought the perfect quick fix- some people here have learned nothing from history.

And does anybody really think that these people marching against corruption are really committed to end corruption? To end tax- cheating- bribing officials?

This is at best a childish hate-fest- befitting a nation that watches simplistic soaps- or if not that, a nation going through separation anxiety (and yes, the separation will soon come) or scariest of all- a nation that believes that a handful of 'good people' (including two or three academics) can change the political culture from the medeival to the utopian in a few months.

Anyone with a smattering of knowledge of history would feel very afraid!

Edited December 20, 2013 by blaze

[Mackie]

Actually, Thaksin's Dreams Can End Thai Democracy. An excellent analysis from July 5, 2011.

Author: Joshua Kurlantzick, Senior Fellow for Southeast Asia

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2011.

www.cfr.org/thailand/thaksinsdreams-can-end-thai-democracy/p25432

[blaze]

The link you give does not lead to the headline- BUT type in Thailand- and I think Mackie that you might be surprised at what Kurtlantzik has subsequently written regarding the current situation. (And excellent analysis, it is, IMO).

for those interested in a deeper analysis of the situation than "Thaksin gots square face we hate him", Mackie's link leads to a US Gov't publication: the Council of Foreign Relations.

In the blog by Kurlantzik of a few days ago, the current situation in Thailand is paralleled with the situation in post-Franco Spain- and that despite the brayings of the elites and their dismal underlings, and thanks in large part to the commitment of King Carlos, the ideals of liberal democracy seem to be triumphing- without coups, judicial or military and without suspending a tenuous and young democractic political system.

search "THAILAND"

http://www.cfr.org/thailand/thaksinsdreams-can-end-thai-democracy/p25432

Edited December 20, 2013 by blaze

[casindonet]

Do they care what we think? As Kasit mention "foreigners don't understand thai politics, so just shut up" & Suthep said "I don't respect farangs". So what is there to comment anymore....let them transform thailand into north korea because that is where they are heading.

Sent from my GT-I9200 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[englishoak]

Do they care what we think? As Kasit mention "foreigners don't understand thai politics, so just shut up" & Suthep said "I don't respect farangs". So what is there to comment anymore....let them transform thailand into north korea because that is where they are heading. Sent from my GT-I9200 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thailand dosnt do politics they think they do but acting like children isnt the only thing politicians are supposed to do then again they cant even play chess the same way or basic card games or even drive properly most of the time or even uphold laws, Why would politics be an exception ? they do feeding at the money handout trough very well though.

[blaze]

I very much doubt that there is a variant on government that the Thais can come up with that hasn't been tried- in Asia or in the West.

Some of them believe, as Kaset suggested, that the Thai experience is unique. It is unique only in the plane of 'now'- but not at all unique in history. We have gone through the age of absolutism- 300 years ago.

And it worked by keeping the people in tow to the notion of Divine Right.

It is amazing that this 'uniqueness' that the Thai's demand to be expreseed in their politics invariably comes from the so called 'educated Thais'.

the poor thais are much more likely to understand that this country is mired in a stage of history through which ALL countries go.

At the same time we are experiencing here the threat to the old order by the new- that happened in Europe in the 18th century, in Japan in the 19th - always with the rise of capitalism from 'protected' feudalism-

It came in the West from Rousseau's 'social contract'- and the 'rights of man'- from the growth of individualistic competition- from the questioning of Divine Right.

The only thing unique about Thailand in the march of history is the profound ignorance of the the so called 'educated' class.

It has been suggested by evolutionary psychlogists that the abiiliti to use abstract reason developed as a means to bloodlessly defeat opponents in Ionia- through debate.

And that debate became enshrined in the system we call now 'democracy'.

Thais - many- especially the elites- don't believe in the equality of people - their culture can't debate (watdch to Thais from opposing camps discuss politics sometime).

But there is change in the wind- and that wind is blowing in from the North East- Thaksin created that wind- and like him or not, he harnessed it.