Why Was Nobody Interested In A Teaching Position?

[DGIE]

Sirchai said:

I started making 17 K, as back in 2005 many schools all in a sudden started to hire Filipinos and only payed them 10 K/month.

Well, all I know when a Filipino grab that 10K/month, he/she is surely desperate.

That is better than no job at all. That is a salary for maid. I pity them.

[recom273]

Am I the only one here who thinks there just might be an "agent" in the mix here who is trying to find someone to work for less than he charges the school?

He's all over the place about preferring "bilingual Thais" and so on, but it always comes down to money, firm at $25k. Why, even if the school won't pay more, will he not agree that it isn't very much money? Why instead suggest people go back to their home countries?

I could go on with clues I think I get but sorry, but I'm not into this.

Yeah .. I would agree with you there.

.. I havent heard the old chestnut "well, you just need a bit of pocket money for a few beers at the weekend don't you" yet.

[inutil]

This is an odd thread. In truth im hoping that the OP Is genuinely interested and wondering himself if he priced it a little on the low end.

First up, rural thailand is not really anything most people want in thailand. Why go rural when you can do a bit of wandering around bangkok on the subway and find a school almost immediately? I remember being offered a gig from a school just because i turned up to help my company with presenting their september camp to the students. I was offered it within 2 minutes of speakin to the head of English whilst WAITING for the people at the company to arrive. 35,000, holidays paid. They hadnt even seen me teach. Just saw i was presentable, youngish, friendly and a twinkly blue eyed farang.

Jobs are not hard to get in Thailand. I might have even taken it as well if i wasnt half way through the (as it turns out) MISERY of the chinese work visa acquisition. So if youre trying to get someone in a rural location youre going to have to pay ABOVE the market rate. Isaan is a hugely inconvenient place to live for a foreigner without specific ties there. And if they have ties there, well, they can use those to find a better paying job by going direct to the local schools in the area anyway.

The second thing to consider is that as foreign teachers, even people like me who honestly arent that bothered and would consider a rural placement just for the experience, wages cannot be subsistence levels. Now this subsistence is GOOOD. No doubt. The people talking about it being impossible to live on are nuts. Its not. I lived without any issue in Trat on 15,000/month. It wasnt an entirely fun and exciting existence and thats why i dont live there anymore (well, that and the rain - omg the rain and general humidity of that place!). But my pay packet could easily have stretched to weekends on Koh Chang and the occasional weekend in Pattaya or bangkok if i could face the bus trip.

But as an ESL teacher you cannot live on subsistence wages. Its deeply impractical. If you are doing this for any period longer than a year pseudo-backpacking holiday, you need to have savings. Moving costs money. Relocating costs money, and above all, returning to your home country and setting up again will destroy your savings. You must have a wage that allows you to save. Well, must is a bit strong here, i mean rather you would be an IDIOT to accept a wage that didnt allow you to save comfortably and easily. Unless of course youre already rich in which case welcome to your 25k/month job! If you have the money, this isnt an issue for you. If you dont, its almost the entire issue for you. If theres an emergency and you need to go home (and it can happen to any of us) or you have a run in with a parent and need to leave, or anything at all. If you dont have savings, what then, genius?

I wasnt far off myself to be honest. Having burned my initial savings from japan moving and setting up in thailand, and then quitting after only two months working here (its a bit of a clusterfuck to be honest, and the climate in trat is... wet) i had very little left to get me through my failed move to korea and then my (after three months of no salary and hotel bills) my successful move to china. I was about 1 month from absolutely no way out... or would have been had i not phoned up my old company in Thailand, said "hi guys, if this china thing doesnt work out, do you have anything available?" and was immediately offered another job paying 32,000/month in bangkok.

These are the bottom ladder jobs. Why would you take a job for 25,000 in rural thailand if you can get one in bangkok for 32,000 with no effort on your part? Hell, even in my hotel i was paying 12,000/month through agoda and that gave me access to a kick ass gym on top of it. I could have walked across the road and got a place for 4000-5000/month if i signed a 3-6 month contract. Cheapest i got in Trat was 7000 and that was... liveable... I could have gotten cheaper. They showed me the 5000 range... you wouldnt have stayed there.

Anyways, this brings me to the next point:

If you have a degree and a bit of experience (i have almost 9 years now), you can teach in Japan, korea, and China. All of these countries pay way more. Japan pays the most at around 2400 US/month, korea on around $2100US and China on around $1800-2000. In terms of workload,

japan is EAAAAAAAASY peasy. Youre a coteacher. You do about 15 classes/week which usually involves modelling the target language and then coming up with a 10-20 minute activity.

Korea is also easy. You do about 15-20 classes/week but youre usually T1, theres some supervision and you do need a curriculum, but they really want you to supplement their main lessons and textbook with fun activities.

China is, if im honest, insane. Ive got 28 classes per week with grades 7, 8, and 11. Its job and finish though, so no desk warming. Which of course means all prep time is at home. You also have co teachers. And their job is to sit in on every lesson and appraise it because you are T1 and you will have a very specific textbook and a very specific pace they want you to get through. Its a tough gig.

Thailands was a doddle (18 classes, no supervision, no one cares a crap what you do). But you get paid (if you were on my salary) around 1000US.

So we come to savings (on bottom of the ESL totem pole salaries - your amazing salary isnt really whats at issue):

Korea is the BEST. If youre on EPIK and have experience, youre easy saving 1200US/month without changing a single thing in your life.

China is good. I can live on 3000RMB. My salary is 12,000 plus housing stipend. So realistically you can save 6000-8000 without too much of an issue (whcih is about 800-1200US/month).

Japan kinda sucks. The money travels further, but cost of living and declining conditions (pro rata/hourly contracts, no holiday pay etc, no housing subsidy, taxes etc), means youre kinda lucky if youre saving about 500US/month. But then, youre in japan. And japan is far and away one of the nicest places to live.

Thailand: At a 30k/month salary youre honestly lucky if youre not living pay cheque to pay cheque. Its very VERY easy to spend money in thailand i found. But as i said above, in trat i did save and could save almost half my salary eating out every night and gorging now and again. So whats that? 10-15,000/month savings? $300-450 US? Not awful, and like Japan, its Thailand. Its a kinda nice place to live if you love the sun and the party life. Its not like Korea or china where its pretty uninteresting to live in (unless youre in seoul, beijing or shanghai or one of chinas natural jewels). Its a fun place to be. Well, if youre at the beach, near a cool island or in a major city. Rural thailand just wasnt that interesting.

And heres where you have to understand something very important about an ESLer, they know all this. For someone maybe just starting out, they can find all this out. A 25,000/month salary in a rural area is not worth it. Even a 30,000/month salary just isnt enough to keep people in Thailand. Even on the bottom rung of the ladder epik offers me 2.5 million won. And you need less than 1million to live extremely comfortably in Korea so why would i?

And there you have it. Why 25,000/month sucks and why no one is biting.

A: you can get a 30,000 salary in bangkok by knocking on doors.

B: If you wait until the main recruiting periods (April/May and October), you can have your pick.

C: You can get far better salaries and conditions in any of the other ESL countries. So Thailand itself might not even be an option let alone a salary thats 5000 RMB below what most would consider the bottom of the ladder.

D: The demand for degree holders and people who can actually get a work permit massively outstrips supply in thailand. The demand for education degree holders is insane compared to the supply. And the reason for that is right above. The only reason you can even get away with those kinds of wages is because backpackers who want an extra holiday and who dont have the necessary qualifications can just do a visa run and work illegally with no issues.

Its a terrible salary and thats really the long and short of it.

Edited December 14, 2013 by inutil

[BudRight]

It is irrelevant how much money the parents do or do not have. 25k is terrible for an NES teacher in Thailand. No need to 'go home,' just go to a different school.

[KIWIBATCH]

Apologies for the font glitches. Let me reiterate and elaborate - I have interviewed many aspiring teachers. My experience is that Thais are the best teachers of English for Thai students. If there are any farangs out there who can speak even Patom 1 level, please let me know ;-)

BS...!

[DGIE]

25,000 for a full time teaching position with probably 20+ teaching hours per week is an insult....tho' a backpacker wouldn't say no.

Teachers directly employed by the Ministry of Education, are not allowed to teach more than 4 hours a day.

But those that are employed by their own schools and agencies can work more than that but the pay per hour is half of what the Ministry of Education gives. So the rest of the amount will make the agencies richer.

[TPI]

If salary is the problem, why not go go home where u can earn more ?

I haven't interviewed an NES who can give half the value of a bi-lingual Thai , even though the NES wants twice as much !!

I love the first part of this "Go home where you can earn more?" I am sure you are not a thai national or NES speaker. Why should NES be giving more money? We can speak the NATIVE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!! Not half-assed attempts of saying a english word. I have to agree that most, including myself find grammer teaching a pain but we learnt this as a child. Thais teach the grammer we teach the speaking, its that simple.

Well Eddy , are you a teacher ? Are you NES ? If so surely you can earn more in your home country than you can in Thailand?

In my opinion a NES brings more to the table than just the ability to speak a language. For instance, the person has left his comfortable home and traveled in and through the world before he/she came to Thailand. These "worldly " experiences cannot be bought by someone who hasn't done it! The teacher, just by conversation, gives the student a glimpse of the real world, not the world presented by the nonsense on TV! They also generally have a good grasp of fundamental science and maths...a sense of humour and a genuine respect for the students comes with the package.

฿25K doesn't even begin to cover the real cost! 35-45K is fair enough!

[recom273]

@Inutil .. ?????

"Why go rural when you can do a bit of wandering around bangkok on the subway and find a school almost immediately?" .. Quality of life .. because your sick and tired of the BKK grind. Working to earn enough money to work, spending 3 hours of your day sweating your nuts off on public transport, fresh air, a beautiful house for the same rent as a shoebox on lower Suk, a nice sense of community .. thats why. Theres more to life than money, however ..

30K is quite sufficient for the country, 25K isn't ..

Anyway, hope it all works out for you, wherever you are going or doing, dont baffle the kids the same way as you just have me. ;D

Edited December 14, 2013 by recom273

[smileplur]

It's really quite simple. It has already been pointed out that the salary is the problem. I don't know anyone who would be willing to work for that salary. My part-time job pays significantly more than that. My full-time job is more than double that. With a family (wife and child), car, motorbike, and all the expenses that go along with those things, I would not be able to have a comfortable life. That's all there is to it. When I can match that salary only working for 6 hours a day, once a week on Saturdays, why would anyone be interested in a position that pays so little?

OK :-) you have job you like at the moment, I hope you continue to like it :-)

I actually have two jobs. It isn't an 'at the moment' kind of situation. My situation is more of a semi-permanent one. I have been at the same day job for 5 years. My starting salary over 5 years ago was quite a bit higher than what is being offered here. Now, my salary is significantly higher that the offer here. It's more than double.

As for the part-time work, I have slowly increased my earnings over the years. I started with optional 'after-school' classes at my school which are paid as overtime at a rated of 450 baht per hour. That was alright, but I thought my time was worth more. So, I dropped the after-school classes and took on some private students at a higher rate. However, I discovered that private students aren't really for me. They aren't always reliable. Class cancellations happen with little notice. 500 baht an hour was okay, but I thought I could do better. So, I decided to enter the world of corporate teaching. That is when I saw my earnings increase significantly. The base pay was always 600 baht per hour. Back then, I only had a motorbike, but it enabled me to get to some places that would be difficult to get to otherwise. The ability to get to these locations resulted in a 'travel allowance' for many of the companies I taught at which raised my hourly rate as high as 1,200 baht per hour. I'd guess that it would all average out to around 800 baht per hour, as not every class had the travel allowance. Corporate work has its high and low seasons. If the economy is doing well and a company is making money, they have money for English Language Training. If things aren't going so well, the demand for corporate teachers drops.

It was only after several years of working like this in the afternoons and evenings that I was given the chance to teach at a well-known university in the early evenings. Again, I saw a significant increase in my salary. Unlike private students who aren't always reliable and corporate work which has ups and downs in terms of demand, university work is always there. I know when the semester will begin. I know when it will end. The work is steady and the pay is very good.

Now, all of this is in Bangkok, so it is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. However, the point is that there is absolutely no reason why a person should 'go home' if they want to live a comfortable life here. Before our son was born, my wife was also working a full time job and contributing to household costs. Given that I have been teaching since I finished my degree, it is the only thing I know how to do well in terms of employment. I can probably earn just as much if I 'go home', but taxes are significantly higher. The cost of living is much higher, especially rent. I have a two bedroom, two story townhouse in Bangkok for 6,000 baht per month. It doesn't get much cheaper than that. I'd struggle to find something similar upcountry at the price I pay. Back home, that $200 might cover my electricity bill. Going home isn't a viable option if I want to continue teaching which is what I love to do.

I do think you will struggle to attract a dedicated teacher who has made teaching their career with the salary being offered. You might find someone who is desperate or someone who is taking a year or two out of their lives to try teaching and get the experience of living in another country. As mentioned, you might get someone who has retired upcountry with their wife.

As I said before, the salary doesn't make it an option many people would consider. The location is remote and less than desirable for most people. If you add 10,000 to the salary, you might get the attention of a few teachers who don't care for the city life. These days, I don't think 30,000 is enough. That is the absolute minimum. Inflation has hit Thailand pretty hard. It is getting more expensive rapidly. It has been mentioned that food costs have risen significantly. Anyone who lives here can see the evidence of that on a daily basis. The cost of gas (petrol) is very high. Electricity costs have increased, and they are set to increase again in the first quarter of the coming year. With increasing costs for almost everything, how do you expect to attract quality teacher when you are lowering the salary below the aforementioned base minimum?

[umbanda]

Apologies for the font glitches. Let me reiterate and elaborate - I have interviewed many aspiring teachers. My experience is that Thais are the best teachers of English for Thai students. If there are any farangs out there who can speak even Patom 1 level, please let me know ;-)

I agree that Thai may be the best teachers of English.....but only if they do not follow the school books and adapt their teaching by the students levels and interest. Schools books are too advanced for most of the Thai students in Government schools. In some private schools may be OK....

Now...with the new Government program paying 10K to ANY English Speaker, foreigner or Thai, for a full time position without any degree or certification need it.....why schools will pay 25 K for some foreigner without Thai skills? Speak Thai to be able to communicate well and teach well, is more important than speak perfect English, be a native speaker or have any degrees.....Speak good Thai is very important and will qualify any foreigner teacher to a well paid teaching job...in any area. But..if you do not like to teach and just will do for the money, no qualification will be enough to be a good teacher.....

[SlyAnimal]

SirChai, maybe you can ask your boss to take a look at this thread and then he can think about anything else he could do to make the job more attractive

[12DrinkMore]

I do wonder about the long term plans of these guys as well.

AFAIK Foreign teachers do not qualify for the occupational pension that Thais get after 25 years work.

Say you are earning a massive 35,000 and manage to save 5,000/month.

After 14 years you will finally have saved the 800,000 (which may move up...) required to obtain a retirement visa. Then you need at least 30k/month to live on (costs do not go down once you retire...). After the 14 years hard saving for the pension requirement you can then start saving for living expenses at a rate of 2 months expenses for every year worked.......

So, after 20 years you'll have enough for the pension requirement and one year's expenses, after 26 years you'll have enough for two years' of expenses. Assuming that you remain in constant employment, never sick or take long holidays.

Hmmm, this does not look like a good long term plan.

IMO best to look at teaching as a short term break from a decent salary back home.... Or retire in the West early and treat teaching in Thailand as hobby.

[inutil]

@Inutil .. ?????

"Why go rural when you can do a bit of wandering around bangkok on the subway and find a school almost immediately?" .. Quality of life .. because your sick and tired of the BKK grind. Working to earn enough money to work, spending 3 hours of your day sweating your nuts off on public transport, fresh air, a beautiful house for the same rent as a shoebox on lower Suk, a nice sense of community .. thats why. Theres more to life than money, however ..

30K is quite sufficient for the country, 25K isn't ..

Anyway, hope it all works out for you, wherever you are going or doing, dont baffle the kids the same way as you just have me. ;D

I am a baffler by nature.

[smileplur]

12DrinkMore - I think you are discounting the role of family. Furthermore, I think you are forgetting that salaries tend to increase over time. My example should demonstrate that. If you are smart about planning your career, there is no reason why you would be working for 35,000 baht per month forever. Salary increases with each year or contract. With experience comes more opportunity. 35,000 is a low starting salary for Bangkok.

[wilgoster]

I'm genuinely surprised and very interested in your response; and I honestly would be interested in a breakdown or at least a summary of your outgoings (naturally preserving privacy etc); I live on far less than that and believe me I don't scrimp. Ok I don't rent, but rural rents are almost nothing compared to Bkk anyway. I hope this doesn't sound confrontational, it's not intended to be.

Don't rent. Ok, what other benies do you enjoy? Tell about your transportation - how easy is it to get around without it, or save for a 50,000 baht bike (if one even rides one) on 25k. From the US and only drive a car? How much to buy a car? Some gigs are in places that will drive farangs crazy (check my posts) if they can't get out and about. Just sayin', cuz that's been my experience. My point: 25k ain't enough.

[oztaurus]

Apologies for the font glitches. Let me reiterate and elaborate - I have interviewed many aspiring teachers. My experience is that Thais are the best teachers of English for Thai students. If there are any farangs out there who can speak even Patom 1 level, please let me know ;-)

I agree, bi-lingual Thai are the best teachers of Thai students .... if you want students to speak fluent Thailish. I just came from teaching an extra curricular class (I do it free for the fun of it, 3 hours on a Saturday morning) and the Thai teacher who works with me told me that "neck weeee we teat apternoo becaud sakoon hab karitimat parteee in morning"

.... seems legit.

[SlyAnimal]

I'm genuinely surprised and very interested in your response; and I honestly would be interested in a breakdown or at least a summary of your outgoings (naturally preserving privacy etc); I live on far less than that and believe me I don't scrimp. Ok I don't rent, but rural rents are almost nothing compared to Bkk anyway. I hope this doesn't sound confrontational, it's not intended to be.

Don't rent. Ok, what other benies do you enjoy? Tell about your transportation - how easy is it to get around without it, or save for a 50,000 baht bike (if one even rides one) on 25k. From the US and only drive a car? How much to buy a car? Some gigs are in places that will drive farangs crazy (check my posts) if they can't get out and about. Just sayin', cuz that's been my experience. My point: 25k ain't enough.

If you're single, like Thai food, get around via motorcycle and don't really drink you'd be looking at around the following costs:

Food: 100฿ per day x 30 days = 3000฿

Rent: 3000฿

Power/Water/Internet: 1000฿

Phone: 500฿

Petrol: 500฿

That's around 8000฿ per month for 3 meals a day, power, electricity, rent (including wifi) and food. That leaves you with 17,000฿ disposable income per month for whiskey /good food/ travel / clothes and savings. But that's as a single guy in the countryside which isn't a lot of fun. If you have a gf or wife you spend more because you are more likely to goto nice restaurants etc. If you're single and in the countryside you'd want to be saving more than this.

[sirchai]

If salary is the problem, why not go go home where u can earn more ?

I haven't interviewed an NES who can give half the value of a bi-lingual Thai , even though the NES wants twice as much !!

I love the first part of this "Go home where you can earn more?" I am sure you are not a thai national or NES speaker. Why should NES be giving more money? We can speak the NATIVE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!! Not half-assed attempts of saying a english word. I have to agree that most, including myself find grammer teaching a pain but we learnt this as a child. Thais teach the grammer we teach the speaking, its that simple.

Excuse me Sir. I’m neither a native English speaker, nor do I make so many mistakes like you, when replying to a post. You obviously don’t even know how to spell “grammar”, so how the heck could you teach it?

I’d guess that people who teach any languages should also have at least some knowledge of certain rules in grammar.

One of my responsibilities at my school is hiring foreigners, which is a real pain in the bud. Would you apply for a job with your written English, I wouldn’t even go further to see your resume.

I grew up in a bilingual environment and had to use English and German from earliest childhood on.

English isn’t just the language from the UK anymore, as it has changed into an International tool of communication.

Teaching a language is more than just having the right pronunciation. Would you consider a low educated folk stapler driver from a small place in Birmingham the speaker of the real English, or a Scottish guy saying sex when he/she’s trying to say the number six?

There’s psychology involved, by just looking into the kids’ eyes, an experienced teacher knows if they understood you, or not. A command in the Thai language is pretty much useful, as it makes teaching, explaining words, not WHOLE sentences much easier.

If a student misbehaves at my school, I’ll have a “chat” in Thai with him, or her. Then they know what you’re talking about.

I’d like to apologize for going way off topic now. The job was offered to me and I was just trying to help my friend to find a teacher. I was already on almost 37 K a month and I do have to survive with only 28 K now, having a family.

Here’s my five cents about houses/apartments in northeast. We’d paid 2,200 baht a few years ago for a tiny house, but a garden. Now we’d found a nice place with two bathrooms, carport, three air-conditioning units, plus a lovely neighborhood for 4 K.

I was just trying to help somebody to find a job, and I’m certain that you can make some good extra money through tutoring. At least it keeps somebody legally employed; people can gain teaching experience and once they found a better paid job, there’s no chain holding them at this school. Good day.-

Edited December 14, 2013 by sirchai

[White Tiger]

As just about everybody else who has replied to this question has already said, the reason no one was interested in this job is because the salary was too low.

If the school would prefer a Thai teacher to teach English instead, then that’s the school’s prerogative.

You have to wonder why the school even bothered advertising for an NET since some of the posts on this thread suggest the school, or someone purporting to be closely connected with it, is heavily prejudiced against NETs.

It’s just as well that the school has a preference for a Thai teacher since it won’t get any NET’s applying for the position at the offered salary.

[12DrinkMore]

12DrinkMore - I think you are discounting the role of family. Furthermore, I think you are forgetting that salaries tend to increase over time. My example should demonstrate that. If you are smart about planning your career, there is no reason why you would be working for 35,000 baht per month forever. Salary increases with each year or contract. With experience comes more opportunity. 35,000 is a low starting salary for Bangkok.

Hi,

Unless you are considering the Bank of Mum&Dad back over in Farangland, aka "The Bangkok Pension", the family connections in Thailand are that the daughters look after the oldies.

From what I have seen, read and heard (this topic has a few mentions as well) salaries have not really increased over the last decade and with the opening up of Asean there will be more downward pressure on remuneration. There is also no job security in Thailand at all. And no job => no visa => you're out. An irrespective of how smart you are, promotion and salary increases depend on the decisions of your Thai boss and employer. Good luck with that one. Once they reckon that a younger person could be employed more cheaply, bye bye; two weeks to leave the country and get a new visa.

You cannot own a property here, which might have been some investment for the future.

And marrying a Thai is just as fraught as marrying a Farang woman.

A qualified teacher with experience should be paid at least 50,000/month, so that visa costs, health insurance, pension savings, a flight out and some security can be put aside. Anything less and you have to treat it as a temporary job or a hobby. I can think of better hobbies. And jobs.

[smileplur]

12DrinkMore - I think you are discounting the role of family. Furthermore, I think you are forgetting that salaries tend to increase over time. My example should demonstrate that. If you are smart about planning your career, there is no reason why you would be working for 35,000 baht per month forever. Salary increases with each year or contract. With experience comes more opportunity. 35,000 is a low starting salary for Bangkok.

Hi,

Unless you are considering the Bank of Mum&Dad back over in Farangland, aka "The Bangkok Pension", the family connections in Thailand are that the daughters look after the oldies.

From what I have seen, read and heard (this topic has a few mentions as well) salaries have not really increased over the last decade and with the opening up of Asean there will be more downward pressure on remuneration. There is also no job security in Thailand at all. And no job => no visa => you're out. An irrespective of how smart you are, promotion and salary increases depend on the decisions of your Thai boss and employer. Good luck with that one. Once they reckon that a younger person could be employed more cheaply, bye bye; two weeks to leave the country and get a new visa.

You cannot own a property here, which might have been some investment for the future.

And marrying a Thai is just as fraught as marrying a Farang woman.

A qualified teacher with experience should be paid at least 50,000/month, so that visa costs, health insurance, pension savings, a flight out and some security can be put aside. Anything less and you have to treat it as a temporary job or a hobby. I can think of better hobbies. And jobs.

Personally, I don't rely on any "Bangkok Pension". I stated above that my wife played a significant role in contributing to the household expenses when she was working. It was a mutual decision for her to stop working for the time being because our son was born. Now that we have a family, we are reconsidering many things, but that is an entirely different story.

I cannot speak about the salary other people earn. I can see that starting salaries have pretty much remained static if I glance at the job boards. However, those job boards aren't indicative of the salary a teacher with experience can and should expect to earn. Most of the jobs that pay well never make it to the stage where advertising is required. They are passed on by word of mouth. Experience means getting know people. Obviously, most people fresh off the plane don't know anyone, so they start with what they can get. Those are the jobs you see on Ajarn and other job boards. Other people without degrees or qualifications of any kind take what they can get. Obviously, their circumstances put them in a position where they have no bargaining power. Ultimately, they are the types of people who take jobs that pay 25k or even 30k.

I don't know whose boss you are talking about, but my boss is a foreigner. He makes the decisions regarding contract renewal for teachers. In my contract, it states the terms and conditions that must be met for contract renewal. They are pretty standard. Basically, your contract will be renewed unless you are a jackass. With each annual contract renewal, there is a specified monthly salary increase. Upper management has stated that there is a ceiling for these annual increases. Typical of Thailand, they have never stated what that ceiling actually is. Some of the teachers I work with have been there 15+ years and have not hit the 'ceiling', so it isn't something I am concerned with too much.

The school charges has several programs. Parents are free to choose which program they want their child to study in. Each of the choices presented to the parents only differs in the amount of time their child spends studying English with a native speaker. Most parents choose the program I teach in where their children study English daily with the same native speaker. They also have a Thai teacher twice a week who teaches grammar. However, I see what they teach, and it is seemingly random. There is no consistency, rhyme or reason to what is taught by their grammar teacher. It's as if they randomly select an aspect of the English language (i.e.: some/any) and have students copy directly from the whiteboard to their notebooks hoping that the act of copying from the whiteboard for 50 minutes will give the children a solid understanding of the grammar point selected for the day. The next lesson may be the usage of subject pronouns followed by a lesson on past simple. Like I said, it appears to be completely random!

Owning property is beyond the scope of this discussion and doesn't really belong in this thread at all. This is especially true if we are talking about being employed at 25k or even 30k per month. Somone earning that kind of a salary can't afford to buy property, Thai or Foreign. There are ways of owning property and certain assets here, but first one must be able to afford them! There are plenty of threads, sections of this website, other websites, and even books written about the subject of owning property and other assets in Thailand.

I am glad that I earn over the amount you specified, but even 50k doesn't go that far if you live in Bangkok and have a family. As I stated previously, life in Thailand is becoming much more expensive than it used to be. Inflation seems to have accelerated here. Trips back home to visit family and friends are a substantial financial burden. It's easy to wipe out a large chunk of savings with a trip to the US with your family for a few weeks.

Cheers amigo!

[Somtamnication]

Apologies for the font glitches. Let me reiterate and elaborate - I have interviewed many aspiring teachers. My experience is that Thais are the best teachers of English for Thai students. If there are any farangs out there who can speak even Patom 1 level, please let me know ;-)

You are nuts. My Thai English teachers cannot have a basic conversation, past "it is hot today". What did one of them write on the board the other day?

1. Today is Wednesday

2. Tomorrow is Thursday

3. Yesterday is Tuesday.

Continue thinking that way and you guys will continue manufacturing tuk tuks into the 25th. century.

[DGIE]

Apologies for the font glitches. Let me reiterate and elaborate - I have interviewed many aspiring teachers. My experience is that Thais are the best teachers of English for Thai students. If there are any farangs out there who can speak even Patom 1 level, please let me know ;-)

You are nuts. My Thai English teachers cannot have a basic conversation, past "it is hot today". What did one of them write on the board the other day?

1. Today is Wednesday

2. Tomorrow is Thursday

3. Yesterday is Tuesday.

Continue thinking that way and you guys will continue manufacturing tuk tuks into the 25th. century.

Well, the teacher for sure was teaching days of the week.

Past, present and future tenses? Never mind. Students do not ask that. That's why the teacher did not apply it

[sirchai]

This is an odd thread. In truth im hoping that the OP Is genuinely interested and wondering himself if he priced it a little on the low end.

First up, rural thailand is not really anything most people want in thailand. Why go rural when you can do a bit of wandering around bangkok on the subway and find a school almost immediately? I remember being offered a gig from a school just because i turned up to help my company with presenting their september camp to the students. I was offered it within 2 minutes of speakin to the head of English whilst WAITING for the people at the company to arrive. 35,000, holidays paid. They hadnt even seen me teach. Just saw i was presentable, youngish, friendly and a twinkly blue eyed farang.

Jobs are not hard to get in Thailand. I might have even taken it as well if i wasnt half way through the (as it turns out) MISERY of the chinese work visa acquisition. So if youre trying to get someone in a rural location youre going to have to pay ABOVE the market rate. Isaan is a hugely inconvenient place to live for a foreigner without specific ties there. And if they have ties there, well, they can use those to find a better paying job by going direct to the local schools in the area anyway.

The second thing to consider is that as foreign teachers, even people like me who honestly arent that bothered and would consider a rural placement just for the experience, wages cannot be subsistence levels. Now this subsistence is GOOOD. No doubt. The people talking about it being impossible to live on are nuts. Its not. I lived without any issue in Trat on 15,000/month. It wasnt an entirely fun and exciting existence and thats why i dont live there anymore (well, that and the rain - omg the rain and general humidity of that place!). But my pay packet could easily have stretched to weekends on Koh Chang and the occasional weekend in Pattaya or bangkok if i could face the bus trip.

But as an ESL teacher you cannot live on subsistence wages. Its deeply impractical. If you are doing this for any period longer than a year pseudo-backpacking holiday, you need to have savings. Moving costs money. Relocating costs money, and above all, returning to your home country and setting up again will destroy your savings. You must have a wage that allows you to save. Well, must is a bit strong here, i mean rather you would be an IDIOT to accept a wage that didnt allow you to save comfortably and easily. Unless of course youre already rich in which case welcome to your 25k/month job! If you have the money, this isnt an issue for you. If you dont, its almost the entire issue for you. If theres an emergency and you need to go home (and it can happen to any of us) or you have a run in with a parent and need to leave, or anything at all. If you dont have savings, what then, genius?

I wasnt far off myself to be honest. Having burned my initial savings from japan moving and setting up in thailand, and then quitting after only two months working here (its a bit of a clusterfuc_k to be honest, and the climate in trat is... wet) i had very little left to get me through my failed move to korea and then my (after three months of no salary and hotel bills) my successful move to china. I was about 1 month from absolutely no way out... or would have been had i not phoned up my old company in Thailand, said "hi guys, if this china thing doesnt work out, do you have anything available?" and was immediately offered another job paying 32,000/month in bangkok.

These are the bottom ladder jobs. Why would you take a job for 25,000 in rural thailand if you can get one in bangkok for 32,000 with no effort on your part? Hell, even in my hotel i was paying 12,000/month through agoda and that gave me access to a kick ass gym on top of it. I could have walked across the road and got a place for 4000-5000/month if i signed a 3-6 month contract. Cheapest i got in Trat was 7000 and that was... liveable... I could have gotten cheaper. They showed me the 5000 range... you wouldnt have stayed there.

Anyways, this brings me to the next point:

If you have a degree and a bit of experience (i have almost 9 years now), you can teach in Japan, korea, and China. All of these countries pay way more. Japan pays the most at around 2400 US/month, korea on around $2100US and China on around $1800-2000. In terms of workload,

japan is EAAAAAAAASY peasy. Youre a coteacher. You do about 15 classes/week which usually involves modelling the target language and then coming up with a 10-20 minute activity.

Korea is also easy. You do about 15-20 classes/week but youre usually T1, theres some supervision and you do need a curriculum, but they really want you to supplement their main lessons and textbook with fun activities.

China is, if im honest, insane. Ive got 28 classes per week with grades 7, 8, and 11. Its job and finish though, so no desk warming. Which of course means all prep time is at home. You also have co teachers. And their job is to sit in on every lesson and appraise it because you are T1 and you will have a very specific textbook and a very specific pace they want you to get through. Its a tough gig.

Thailands was a doddle (18 classes, no supervision, no one cares a crap what you do). But you get paid (if you were on my salary) around 1000US.

So we come to savings (on bottom of the ESL totem pole salaries - your amazing salary isnt really whats at issue):

Korea is the BEST. If youre on EPIK and have experience, youre easy saving 1200US/month without changing a single thing in your life.

China is good. I can live on 3000RMB. My salary is 12,000 plus housing stipend. So realistically you can save 6000-8000 without too much of an issue (whcih is about 800-1200US/month).

Japan kinda sucks. The money travels further, but cost of living and declining conditions (pro rata/hourly contracts, no holiday pay etc, no housing subsidy, taxes etc), means youre kinda lucky if youre saving about 500US/month. But then, youre in japan. And japan is far and away one of the nicest places to live.

Thailand: At a 30k/month salary youre honestly lucky if youre not living pay cheque to pay cheque. Its very VERY easy to spend money in thailand i found. But as i said above, in trat i did save and could save almost half my salary eating out every night and gorging now and again. So whats that? 10-15,000/month savings? $300-450 US? Not awful, and like Japan, its Thailand. Its a kinda nice place to live if you love the sun and the party life. Its not like Korea or china where its pretty uninteresting to live in (unless youre in seoul, beijing or shanghai or one of chinas natural jewels). Its a fun place to be. Well, if youre at the beach, near a cool island or in a major city. Rural thailand just wasnt that interesting.

And heres where you have to understand something very important about an ESLer, they know all this. For someone maybe just starting out, they can find all this out. A 25,000/month salary in a rural area is not worth it. Even a 30,000/month salary just isnt enough to keep people in Thailand. Even on the bottom rung of the ladder epik offers me 2.5 million won. And you need less than 1million to live extremely comfortably in Korea so why would i?

And there you have it. Why 25,000/month sucks and why no one is biting.

A: you can get a 30,000 salary in bangkok by knocking on doors.

B: If you wait until the main recruiting periods (April/May and October), you can have your pick.

C: You can get far better salaries and conditions in any of the other ESL countries. So Thailand itself might not even be an option let alone a salary thats 5000 RMB below what most would consider the bottom of the ladder.

D: The demand for degree holders and people who can actually get a work permit massively outstrips supply in thailand. The demand for education degree holders is insane compared to the supply. And the reason for that is right above. The only reason you can even get away with those kinds of wages is because backpackers who want an extra holiday and who dont have the necessary qualifications can just do a visa run and work illegally with no issues.

Its a terrible salary and thats really the long and short of it.

Thank Buddha that not all people like to live and work in Bangkok. 25 K in Det Udom is pretty much the same than 30 K in Bangkok.

The person who'll get this job could get a higher salary with the right qualifications.

I made the northeast to my home and I love the people here. Always glad when I'm back home from a trip to the capital.

The post was just made to help a friend, who wanted to have me as his English teacher,as I was the one who'd held a four day seminar for Thai directors to prepare them for the ASEAN community.

It's just an offer, nobody MUST apply for this job. -

[recom273]

@SlyAnimal .. Are you single mate ? If restricted my missus to 100B a day for her food i would be heading for a divorce.

I would spend 100B a day at school, I guess 50% of that would be on fruit and water.

[DGIE]

Apologies for the font glitches. Let me reiterate and elaborate - I have interviewed many aspiring teachers. My experience is that Thais are the best teachers of English for Thai students. If there are any farangs out there who can speak even Patom 1 level, please let me know ;-)

I agree, bi-lingual Thai are the best teachers of Thai students .... if you want students to speak fluent Thailish. I just came from teaching an extra curricular class (I do it free for the fun of it, 3 hours on a Saturday morning) and the Thai teacher who works with me told me that "neck weeee we teat apternoo becaud sakoon hab karitimat parteee in morning"

.... seems legit.

Anybody who can speak Thai can be her/his asset but once a foreigner is fluent in Thai, she speaks Thai in class most of the time.

[FiftyTwo]

Id guess that people who teach any languages should also have at least some knowledge of certain rules in grammar.

One of my responsibilities at my school is hiring foreigners, which is a real pain in the bud. Would you apply for a job with your written English, I wouldnt even go further to see your resume.

"I would imagine" ...... would be correct English.

For a guess to take place, someone must first ask a question.

As for the OP

I would be happy to work (part-time) for 25k, and am a qualified teacher from the Uk with 10+ years UK comprehensive school (and some junior school) experience. Member of the UK GTC, degree, PGCE.

BUT

Like most other people in my situation, have a house in CM, a wife with a job and children in a city high school, so wouldn't move to Nakon Nowhere.

The people you can attract to move to your locality with a wage of 25k are people who have nothing, there are usually reasons why they have nothing, and those reasons don't make for reliable teachers. (not including retired foreign people who just happen to live nearby)

Edited December 14, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[smileplur]

@SlyAnimal .. Are you single mate ? If restricted my missus to 100B a day for her food i would be heading for a divorce.

I would spend 100B a day at school, I guess 50% of that would be on fruit and water.

Where do you work? How much is a bottle of water at your school? I know prices have increased, but fruit must be astronomically high-priced where you work. Alternatively, you could just eat massive amounts of fruit! Doesn't your school provide you with food and water for free?

[sirchai]

As just about everybody else who has replied to this question has already said, the reason no one was interested in this job is because the salary was too low.

If the school would prefer a Thai teacher to teach English instead, then that’s the school’s prerogative.

You have to wonder why the school even bothered advertising for an NET since some of the posts on this thread suggest the school, or someone purporting to be closely connected with it, is heavily prejudiced against NETs.

It’s just as well that the school has a preference for a Thai teacher since it won’t get any NET’s applying for the position at the offered salary.

Did you really read the job offer and following posts? The school needs a native English speaker to teach English. The <deleted> post that Thai teachers are the best teachers is ridiculous.

But they could be the best teachers, if the MoE would send all of those guys who'd like to become English teachers to study abroad.

After four years in an English speaking country, holding a degree from same country, they wouldn't lose face anymore.

Our Thai English teachers, which aren't working at the school which is looking for an English teacher, can't have a conversation with me, or my American colleague.

Our so important meetings with the whole English teaching staff are always conducted in Thai, never in English.

Two of them have a Masters. One once told me that they don't speak anymore English once they got home. A very good excuse,but only for her.- .

[FiftyTwo]

But they could be the best teachers, if the MoE would send all of those guys who'd like to become English teachers to study abroad.

From what I have seen, the Thai students with English speaking abilities will choose Engineering or science degrees.

The Thais who train as English teachers are usually those with such poor English speaking ability that they can't choose a more lucrative degree course and career. Not to mention the "pretties" who get a teaching job by being mistress of a government official, and they get planted in the language department because nobody will notice they can't do the job.