Its for the best that there is no social security system in Thailand.... Uk comparison

[Neeranam]

I think people live longer here as they have purpose and don't fall back on pensions and SS and other Western earned perks. Why do so many people die after retiring??

People where I come from(Scotland) have a much higher life expectancy than here. Round here there are very few people over 70.

Lots of Thais were shocked when I told them my mother had retired at 60 and was learning to play golf. Likewise they were shocked when I told them my Gran got a flying lesson for her 80th birthday. 60 here is old.

My mother, now 70 plays golf 3 times a week minimum. My Thai Mother in law who is the same age, sit on her arse all day, waiting to die.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Neeranam

[VisaEd]

Its inhumane not to have a safety net for those who can't find a job.

In many cases the adult who is not able to work (for whatever reason) has dependants. Yes it might be fashionable to punish the non-worker, but what about their kids? You could argue they shouldn't be allowed to have children but if they've had kids already, why should they be punished too?

Penalising people for not working when there are no jobs is not fair. If it was about getting people back into work then training should be provided. What they are doing in the UK now is not about getting people into work, but making life miserable for those at the bottom.

Being forced to work in Poundland for free is not a good way to help transition the unemployed into paid work.

Most people in the UK who receive benefits have a job and they get the money from the government because their wages are too low.

Why should big companies in the UK be subsidised by the government due to them not paying a living wage?

[belg]

hardly anybody (2 out of 60 million) pay taxes

this would be another disaster

you work, you have money

you dont work, you have what you deserve

[harrry]

hardly anybody (2 out of 60 million) pay taxes

this would be another disaster

you work, you have money

you dont work, you have what you deserve

Almost everyone pays taxes.

VAT applies to almost everything.

[arminbkk]

If there was 'welfare' in Thailand ,the system would collapse in a few months because everyone would be on it.

Possibly. Let's face it, there are many Thais that are lazy.

There would be a lot of abuse of the system, same as in the West.

If getting welfare, how many would still be pushing a food cart through the crowded streets under the hot sun?

When talking to Thais, most don't know much about western countries, and they certainly don't seem

interested to know much, except for the welfare system: somehow they know about how 'people get money from the government to live'.

Most think it is an easy handout without any conditions. I usually have to put that straight.

A welfare system would do some good though in Thailand: maybe less beggars, less children on the street selling stuff etc.

But with all the corruption and greed here, low tax rates and low percentage of the population actually paying tax...how would it be funded?

[huwgo]

The welfare system is the greatest government initiative to alleviate poverty, and one of the main reasons western countries are so economically powerful.

It means taxpayers have a safety net if they lose their jobs or cannot work because of health or other problems.

All the money that is spent on welfare flows through the economy. It means more people buying goods and services, and that means jobs and opportunities.

[willyumiii]

If there was 'welfare' in Thailand ,the system would collapse in a few months because everyone would be on it.

No, it would go broke due to corruption!

[StreetCowboy]

I think people live longer here as they have purpose and don't fall back on pensions and SS and other Western earned perks. Why do so many people die after retiring??

I've never met anyone who retired after dying

[Cylon]

There is social security, but for hospital,medical. I pay half my Thai staff pay half.

[umbanda]

If there is no social Security in Thailand what is the Bt.750 per month "social security" monies that come from my salary for ?

http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/home_eng.jsp?lang=en

I think some people post here what they do not know. ...or just what they hear about....

It is Social Security here. Many self employed people do not pay the annual contribution and get nothing, but some do, and get a "retirement" check after 60 calculated over the minimum salary. Some ex employees and now retired Thai citizens get up to 60% of its last salary every month after 60 years old. Government schools teachers in Thailand get retirement benefits a lot better than in many "1st world" countries. A 65 years old Government School Principal can get over 25000 THB/month retirement check....and.....foreigners under 60 working legally in Thailand can apply and pay for Social Security getting also the attached benefits like any Thai citizen. Check at any Social Security office......

[jinners]

Yes i know many examples like your Aunt. In Thailand they would at least do something like selling fruit or lottery-tickets. It's a shame that in Europe people are not even allowed to sell something like fruit or peanuts. It also is a shame to pay extraordinary amounts of tax and VAT if you see how other people do misabuse the system. I don't blame them though, if i was in their position i might have done the same because it is so easy to do.

What i don't like about the fruitsellers in Thailand is that they using double pricing......And the lotteryticket-sellers that they are always biking in my way. But better that then seeing them abuse the social system where i have to pay loads of money for.

Why this double pricing on fruit selling again? I've never seen that in 3 years. Where does this happen as it doesn't that I'm aware of in Patt/Jomtien

[rgs2001uk]

If there was 'welfare' in Thailand ,the system would collapse in a few months because everyone would be on it.

Possibly. Let's face it, there are many Thais that are lazy.

There would be a lot of abuse of the system, same as in the West.

If getting welfare, how many would still be pushing a food cart through the crowded streets under the hot sun?

When talking to Thais, most don't know much about western countries, and they certainly don't seem

interested to know much, except for the welfare system: somehow they know about how 'people get money from the government to live'.

Most think it is an easy handout without any conditions. I usually have to put that straight.

A welfare system would do some good though in Thailand: maybe less beggars, less children on the street selling stuff etc.

But with all the corruption and greed here, low tax rates and low percentage of the population actually paying tax...how would it be funded?

A welfare system would do some good though in Thailand: maybe less beggars, less children on the street selling stuff etc.

If you actually believe all those beggars and kids you see flogging crap are Thai, you are sadly mistaken.

Thats a subject for another thread.

[rgs2001uk]

The welfare system is the greatest government initiative to alleviate poverty, and one of the main reasons western countries are so economically powerful.

It means taxpayers have a safety net if they lose their jobs or cannot work because of health or other problems.

All the money that is spent on welfare flows through the economy. It means more people buying goods and services, and that means jobs and opportunities.

and one of the main reasons western countries are so economically powerful.

Which countries would that be?

Uncle Sam up to his eyeballs in debt, never mind keep the printing presses working on overtime, keep printing more money.

How about those failed quasi commie European socialist paradises, or the tax dodging Greeks?

The welfare system is the greatest government initiative to alleviate poverty

Please provide an example of lets say 5 countries, even easier 3 countries, heck, just name me one country that has alleviated poverty with or without a welfare system.

[Suradit69]

I tend to agree but without the contemptuous attitude shared by so many TV armchair economists when discussing the welfare state.

It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West.

It's easy when you only had to buy a house in the 70s, live in it for 30 years and then sell it for any number of times more than what you paid.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

It's so easy when all you had to do was "buy-and-hold" stocks to see them soar in value many times over.

Frankly, I think a lot of you should really consider yourselves mighty fortunate that you were born and worked at the right time rather than sitting there passing judgment on the overwhelming majority of deserving welfare recipients.

I sincerely doubt that many of you would stand a snowball-in-hell's chance of cutting it as a young graduate in today's environment.

I think the government has done a good job cutting the bill for the welfare state but there will always be those who abuse it.

"

"It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West. "

"Growth" fueled in large part by irresponsible leverage, i.e. borrowing staggering amounts with the intention of passing the debt on to future generations. That as well as financial chicanery and greed that had devastating consequences circa 2008 to date, and probably worse to come.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

Definitely agree about this. Speaking in my case from the US perspective. I have a decent income from pension and social security, both of which have some (dubious) adjustments made annually with regard to inflation. I also have 80% reimbursement for all medical, dental, vision-related and prescription drug costs, paid even while I reside in Thailand. It's doubtful the pension and medical reimbursement programs will remain in place for future generations and the government social security program will be on shaky financial foundations. The whole idea of voluntary retirement will probably never be the same again.

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

Not sure whether British ingenuity led the world in many areas after World War II but, again from the American perspective, I recall graduating from university at a time when businesses sent recruiters to the campus to entice/bribe us to join them. I changed employers a few times on my terms and was able to get an additional two degrees later in life while on leave with full salary and most expenses paid. Nowadays a university degree only assures employment in a few select sectors and most university grads in the US start working with the burden of a mind-numbing debt for educational loans that will take years to repay.

While I should not be critical of all these benefits that I've received, and I do genuinely feel lucky to have lived during a time when things were pretty free and easy, the fact still remains that a lot of these generous "handouts" were based on the concept of spending now, promising more in the near term future and don't worry how it will be paid for ... an attitude shared by government, businesses and individuals. And this view hardly seems to be affected by the recent world wide economic and financial crises.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Suradit69

[Baerboxer]

.

Wow a welfare system in Thailand----Then we couldn’t take advantage of all the unmarried mothers etc that have to sell their bodies to us old men.

Hell no we don’t want no welfare for Thailand.-----------------------------------------------------

How many people in Thailand are on the welfare system from their own country ?? One of the first welfare acts (I am referring to the UK and commonwealth here) was the old age pension act 1908 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state.

Now many people may rant that they have paid for all that----well you won’t know that until you stop ticking----but you won’t have to worry about it----& isn’t that what welfare is all about.

There are thieves out there---some with guns, some with Biro's.......do you scrap the whole system because of that-----or work to improve its detection methods to eradicate those people

The UK has a whole heap of civil servants whose job it is too track down benefit fraudsters. They've increased the penalties, increased the advertising and encouraged whistle blowers.

In the 90s I knew one of the senior people doing this. He ran off with someone else's much younger wife, then tipped off her two young sisters to be careful as the fact they'd been claiming all sorts as unmarried mothers whilst moonlighting in the black market economy had been noticed.

Corruption and ineptitude is not restricted to civil servants outside Europe!

The safety net systems, designed to support those that really need it, got completely swamped by large amounts of immigrants who were used to abusing systems in countries where they came from. Many regarded this has free hand outs, not a safety net for deserving cases. There have been waves of immigrants, from various countries who've been welcomed in Britain and then simply leached of the state. Investigators are wary of anti racist laws and so tread very carefully.

[Neeranam]

If there is no social Security in Thailand what is the Bt.750 per month "social security" monies that come from my salary for ?

http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/home_eng.jsp?lang=en

I think some people post here what they do not know. ...or just what they hear about....

It is Social Security here. Many self employed people do not pay the annual contribution and get nothing, but some do, and get a "retirement" check after 60 calculated over the minimum salary. Some ex employees and now retired Thai citizens get up to 60% of its last salary every month after 60 years old. Government schools teachers in Thailand get retirement benefits a lot better than in many "1st world" countries. A 65 years old Government School Principal can get over 25000 THB/month retirement check....and.....foreigners under 60 working legally in Thailand can apply and pay for Social Security getting also the attached benefits like any Thai citizen. Check at any Social Security office......

I've paid in for quite a few years and have the option of a lump sum when I'm 60 or monthly payments. Certain professions can get 100% of their last salary, I believe.

[ppmacready]

There is a social security in this country.

In Essan they can it Falang or village idiot!

[bbbbooboo]

In Thailand no work=no eat=you die. I agree with this

[AyG]

In Thailand no work=no eat=you die. I agree with this

Does that apply to babies? Should young children work in sweatshops? And what about the mentally ill, physically handicapped and elderly? Do you really want them all dead? Or is this just the moronic posting of a heartless imbecile?

[Halion]

Why do people insist on trying to compare this country with other developed nations. Thailand is a developing country and has far to go in this respect. It is like comparing a peanut to a coconut and very little can be derived by such comparisons yet it appears to be a major topic of discussion. Thailand form of democracy has spawned from the 1930's and is still in it's infancy.

Democracy in this country is the practice of oligarchy and has progressed little in the past 30 years. It is and always has been a democracy of the elite and that is what all the current fuss is about. Government operates a covert form of feudalism using the rural and marginalized population like pawns. In order for a hierarchical society to prevail all that is needed is poverty and ignorance and feudalism ensures that this will be so.

[salapau]

I tend to agree but without the contemptuous attitude shared by so many TV armchair economists when discussing the welfare state.

It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West.

It's easy when you only had to buy a house in the 70s, live in it for 30 years and then sell it for any number of times more than what you paid.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

It's so easy when all you had to do was "buy-and-hold" stocks to see them soar in value many times over.

Frankly, I think a lot of you should really consider yourselves mighty fortunate that you were born and worked at the right time rather than sitting there passing judgment on the overwhelming majority of deserving welfare recipients.

I sincerely doubt that many of you would stand a snowball-in-hell's chance of cutting it as a young graduate in today's environment.

I think the government has done a good job cutting the bill for the welfare state but there will always be those who abuse it.

" Contemptuous attitude " - What a ridiculous comment and your attitude is incredibly selfish. I know though experince that there are so many benefit frauds that in no way deserve the life they have without either doing or wanting to do an honest days work. They are the lowest form of life, liers and cheats that prey on the honest worker's contributions. They brag about their dishonesty and work privaltely for cash, without a second's remorse. They are proud to take benefits away from the real needy and deserving cases. I also know of many deserving people with disabilities that justly accepting the help from the state and our grateful.

So get real and face the facts of the society we have today.

[Mudcrab]

If there is no social Security in Thailand what is the Bt.750 per month "social security" monies that come from my salary for ?

http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/home_eng.jsp?lang=en

Correct. The statement that there is no social security in Thailand is a myth. A friend whose daughter is profoundly deaf gets a small payment every month.

[Mudcrab]

There are always people who abuse the system in the UK, but money is tight now and the UK government are cracking down, it takes time though. It is very easy to know of 1 or 2 examples and then draw conclusions on the entire welfare state in the UK but it's nonsense really. The UK is a very wealthy country, people pay high taxes and are rewarded as such with a safety net of free medical care, unemployment benefit etc. All societies should have something similar to look after the people.

For the people abusing the system I do believe that their days are numbered but the government is NOT going to pull it as many people genuinely do need it and they would suffer terribly.

Despite what people might believe on this forum there is not a culture of "why bother working". Most people do not want to be reliant on the state for their money, people want to work, have a decent life and live well. You cannot do that living on benefits.

So, would Thailand be better off with a welfare state, absolutely yes it would. However, it should learn from countries like the UK, avoid the pitfalls as much as possible and do it better. How many homeless, poor, uneducated people are there in Thailand? how much better would it be if the state could help those people back on their feet rather then pilfering huge sums of money through a corrupt government?

Also, the education system in the UK is still one of the best in the world. Huge numbers of people leaving school go onto do a degree, according to a recent survey in the telegraph nearly 50% of young people go onto to obtain a degree.. Compared to 30 years ago when this just 5%. There is now even some people who debate that this is too high now! Maybe, maybe not but it is still a testament to level of education in the country.

So, in my opinion Thailand needs a good social security system, they just need to do it better then the UK who spend too much time cracking down on abusers.

Just hope they haven't been following what Australia proposed during the previous Government. After 6 weeks out of the country all payments stop. Also very stringent conditions to getting aged pension....must have lived in the country in the previous 2 (maybe it was 3?) years prior to application or cannot apply for OAP. I'm not 100% sure if this was written into law but suspect it was.

I guess this is to stop the perpetual tourist living overseas sucking money out of the Oz economy.

For most the OAP age is 67 now with talk of it going to 70 years old.

[Lokie]

Some good points made in this thread and some complete & Utter <deleted> spouted re UK welfare..

I left school early 80s and instead of doing Sweet FA in Thatchers Britain I done a year on a YTS till I was 17, (lived in Northwest of England) proper jobs were few and far between then. ended up doing another till 18 then went on a CEP (community Enterprise Project) Yeah basically I am daft enough to be a 'Grafter' and have always done something instead of just taking the easy option, boils down to personal pride also. I eventually got a full time job at 18 and have always been in coller (work) I know lots of lazy good for nothing scroungers who have fiddled the system all their miserable crappy lifes and now in the UK is at the point where there are like 3 generations of these scumbags. They think it is normal, why work when we can have lots for nowt? Funny thing is they are the first to whinge about immigrants coming to UK and getting all the grants etc... Sorry, means test them properly the ones who are genuine should get welfare, the fiddling lay abouts who have never contributed to the pot should have all benefits stopped and made to do something for the community or get zero. Most fiddle the system, I for one have no sympathy for them. Get off your ar$e and work, Give them free sterilization so they do not carry on infecting the gene pool, that would be a good benefit for them

One reason I like Thailand, you look after yourself, do not expect anything for free... suits me fine

[Mudcrab]

When I see frail, gaunt elderly women picking through trashcans I think there's something wrong with a society that doesn't provide for them in their old age. The concept that in Thai society family will always support you doesn't always work. There is definitely a need for a better social security safety net here.

I've seen that in the US, Brazil, Australia and the UK

Edited December 14, 2013 by Mudcrab

[wilcopops]

my thoughts are that this is a troll or someone quoting a buffoon.

[wilcopops]

When I see frail, gaunt elderly women picking through trashcans I think there's something wrong with a society that doesn't provide for them in their old age. The concept that in Thai society family will always support you doesn't always work. There is definitely a need for a better social security safety net here.

I've seen that in the US, Brazil, Australia and the UK

Of course it won't - social security is part and parcel of ALL industrialised societies.

[wilcopops]

http://www.google.com/imgres?lr=&sa=X&hl=en&biw=1401&bih=658&tbm=isch&tbnid=2P9vTpgBKZkHKM:&imgrefurl=http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2012/05/30/public-finance-warning-tax-cheats-stole-your-benefits/&docid=2E1jfR_v3C958M&imgurl=http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Screen-shot-2012-05-30-at-11.58.36.png&w=764&h=811&ei=RSOsUt-jC4ypkgXxwICABg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:49,s:0,i:237&iact=rc&page=3&tbnh=186&tbnw=176&start=46&ndsp=24&tx=95&ty=69

[Bpuumike]

I am yet to see the work hard people,

It's more like make sure to have kids to support you when you old attitude

Or, as already posted, find a farang.

[simondan]

How many people on SS save? The money they get goes straight to their landlord, the local shop, the supermarket (the pub, the pokie machine). I dont support dole bludging but SS got rid of the abhorent social ills associated with extreme poverty like exploitation of women and children, and disease and crime epidemics, all if which had impacts on society as a whole. SS is basically the govt injecting taxes back into the economy and maintaining better living standards for the whole country at the same time. Mind you, stories of multi generational bludging make me sick to my stomach, but you get trash wherever you go, if you scrap a system because its not perfect we wont be left with much.

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