Thai Democrats to decide on whether to field candidates or boycott Feb 2 election

[pisico]

Boycott? Of course! How else can we win a (wink, wink) election?

If we do not get our way (after all we, the Bangkokian elite have education and money) and we Democrats can hold our breath to boycott elections. We will turn blue and if we die, it will be your fault Thailand.

Now, if only the army took pity on us and let us run the country again, there would not be any need for elections and we would not have to boycott. Our cherished true Democracy... Bangkok style.

[Jasun]

The point of the OP is that the Dems are considering boycotting the election. So either they don't want to be in power, don't think there'll be elections, or they don't believe that boycotting the elections will stop them from returning to power by some other means eventually.

Considering they have boycotted elections in the past, lost elections, and still ultimately found themselves running the show, suggests they believe they could do it again - either by appointment, via the courts, or through some new election process.

Is that a bad thing? It depends on your view on democracy. My opinion is that the Dems are are probably a better, more trustworthy and qualified unit to run the county. How they get there is a different story.

[PREM-R]

The point of the OP is that the Dems are considering boycotting the election. So either they don't want to be in power, don't think there'll be elections, or they don't believe that boycotting the elections will stop them from returning to power by some other means eventually.

Considering they have boycotted elections in the past, lost elections, and still ultimately found themselves running the show, suggests they believe they could do it again - either by appointment, via the courts, or through some new election process.

Is that a bad thing? It depends on your view on democracy. My opinion is that the Dems are are probably a better, more trustworthy and qualified unit to run the county. How they get there is a different story.

Quote Jasun "My opinion is that the Dems are are probably a better, more trustworthy and qualified unit to run the county. How they get there is a different story."

The Thai people, those who can vote, seem to have disagreed with you at every general election for the past 20 years. Do you know something that they don't?

[steveromagnino]

The point of the OP is that the Dems are considering boycotting the election. So either they don't want to be in power, don't think there'll be elections, or they don't believe that boycotting the elections will stop them from returning to power by some other means eventually.

Considering they have boycotted elections in the past, lost elections, and still ultimately found themselves running the show, suggests they believe they could do it again - either by appointment, via the courts, or through some new election process.

Is that a bad thing? It depends on your view on democracy. My opinion is that the Dems are are probably a better, more trustworthy and qualified unit to run the county. How they get there is a different story.

it is however true that there are numerous irregularities in the way elections are conducted. Surely these should be addressed, rather than being answered "that's only the party that hasn't won an election in 20 years complaining because they can't compete."

Personally I am in favour of rolling forward with Feb 2, with international oversight at an unprecedented level and all parties agreeing to certain codes of conduct, with substantial punishments for transgressions. I am not, however, particularly hopeful that this would be possible, because as the incumbent, why should PT give up their natural advantages; in fact they are already vacuuming up the minor party candidates as fast as they can to ensure the same situation since 2001 elections continues.

There are issues such as:

- voters in constituencies being named and shamed for not voting for a specific party,completely removing their right to privacy and free choice

- vote buying and intimidation to vote specific ways

- inability of some candidates in some constituencies to campaign pre election

- misrepresentation of policy and ongoing misrepresentation of who will conduct policy including references to people of poor moral fibre who have no place in Thai politics

- use of illegal materials by certain candidates and parties in order to misrepresent their opposition

- the questionable use of government advertising budget and government media to promote specific individuals calling into question the role of government vs. party funding for party promotion

- the role of watchdogs and independent bodies and whether they are independent (or not)

- the role of the 4th estate and questions of neutrality

- lack of oversight in fiscal responsibility (e.g. rice pledging which should never have been allowed to be conducted in the way it has developed) and lack of punishment for corruption (genuine punishment should be treason, punishable by death)

A developed democracy ensures that the will of the minority is not simply overrun by the power of the majority.

Decisions should be made for the good of the country, not just for specific individuals who control the vote. This willingness to engage in absolutism, where every check and balance can be removed solely based on a popularity contest results in policy makers and leaders being willing to circumvent the law as there is no consequence; the continuing decay in free media, the ongoing increase in corruption, a trade off of longterm failure at a country level for short term vote winning and short term corruption, are all things that should be resolved by adjusting the democratic process, not eliminating it.

At the end of it, it's vital that the strength of the current government's political machine has a genuine opposition who can stand up to them, because if we are stuck with those idiots in parliament now, we are doomed. They are either for the most part corrupt, inept, or outright thugs. And yet without a choice (in certain provinces it isn't a choice at all who to vote for) we will be stuck with these losers for an eternity. As for the banned 111, almost all of them also deserve the simple description of 'those who can't be honest, become Thai politicians*"

* or civil servants

Edited December 17, 2013 by steveromagnino

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory reported post and quoted replies removed

[pisico]

The point of the OP is that the Dems are considering boycotting the election. So either they don't want to be in power, don't think there'll be elections, or they don't believe that boycotting the elections will stop them from returning to power by some other means eventually.

Considering they have boycotted elections in the past, lost elections, and still ultimately found themselves running the show, suggests they believe they could do it again - either by appointment, via the courts, or through some new election process.

Is that a bad thing? It depends on your view on democracy. My opinion is that the Dems are are probably a better, more trustworthy and qualified unit to run the county. How they get there is a different story.

Quote Jasun "My opinion is that the Dems are are probably a better, more trustworthy and qualified unit to run the county. How they get there is a different story."

The Thai people, those who can vote, seem to have disagreed with you at every general election for the past 20 years. Do you know something that they don't?

Yes, Jasun knows something they don't. He is educated, (maybe well heeled) enlightened and a Democrat. The other 45 million or so Thais, are not.

[longway]

They have got themselves into a pickle. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. Plonkers.

My guess is that they will have to boycott now.

[Siripon]

The point of the OP is that the Dems are considering boycotting the election. So either they don't want to be in power, don't think there'll be elections, or they don't believe that boycotting the elections will stop them from returning to power by some other means eventually.

Considering they have boycotted elections in the past, lost elections, and still ultimately found themselves running the show, suggests they believe they could do it again - either by appointment, via the courts, or through some new election process.

Is that a bad thing? It depends on your view on democracy. My opinion is that the Dems are are probably a better, more trustworthy and qualified unit to run the county. How they get there is a different story.

Quote Jasun "My opinion is that the Dems are are probably a better, more trustworthy and qualified unit to run the county. How they get there is a different story."

The Thai people, those who can vote, seem to have disagreed with you at every general election for the past 20 years. Do you know something that they don't?

Yes, Jasun knows something they don't. He is educated, (maybe well heeled) enlightened and a Democrat. The other 45 million or so Thais, are not.

15 million voted for Pheua Thai, 11 million voted for the Democrats and over a million (PAD} voted no in the last election.

If we consider that the PAD has returned to the fold that is 15 million to 12.

Not such a big diference,

[longway]

The point of the OP is that the Dems are considering boycotting the election. So either they don't want to be in power, don't think there'll be elections, or they don't believe that boycotting the elections will stop them from returning to power by some other means eventually.

Considering they have boycotted elections in the past, lost elections, and still ultimately found themselves running the show, suggests they believe they could do it again - either by appointment, via the courts, or through some new election process.

Is that a bad thing? It depends on your view on democracy. My opinion is that the Dems are are probably a better, more trustworthy and qualified unit to run the county. How they get there is a different story.

it is however true that there are numerous irregularities in the way elections are conducted. Surely these should be addressed, rather than being answered "that's only the party that hasn't won an election in 20 years complaining because they can't compete."

Personally I am in favour of rolling forward with Feb 2, with international oversight at an unprecedented level and all parties agreeing to certain codes of conduct, with substantial punishments for transgressions. I am not, however, particularly hopeful that this would be possible, because as the incumbent, why should PT give up their natural advantages; in fact they are already vacuuming up the minor party candidates as fast as they can to ensure the same situation since 2001 elections continues.

There are issues such as:

- voters in constituencies being named and shamed for not voting for a specific party,completely removing their right to privacy and free choice

- vote buying and intimidation to vote specific ways

- inability of some candidates in some constituencies to campaign pre election

- misrepresentation of policy and ongoing misrepresentation of who will conduct policy including references to people of poor moral fibre who have no place in Thai politics

- use of illegal materials by certain candidates and parties in order to misrepresent their opposition

- the questionable use of government advertising budget and government media to promote specific individuals calling into question the role of government vs. party funding for party promotion

- the role of watchdogs and independent bodies and whether they are independent (or not)

- the role of the 4th estate and questions of neutrality

- lack of oversight in fiscal responsibility (e.g. rice pledging which should never have been allowed to be conducted in the way it has developed) and lack of punishment for corruption (genuine punishment should be treason, punishable by death)

A developed democracy ensures that the will of the minority is not simply overrun by the power of the majority.

Decisions should be made for the good of the country, not just for specific individuals who control the vote. This willingness to engage in absolutism, where every check and balance can be removed solely based on a popularity contest results in policy makers and leaders being willing to circumvent the law as there is no consequence; the continuing decay in free media, the ongoing increase in corruption, a trade off of longterm failure at a country level for short term vote winning and short term corruption, are all things that should be resolved by adjusting the democratic process, not eliminating it.

At the end of it, it's vital that the strength of the current government's political machine has a genuine opposition who can stand up to them, because if we are stuck with those idiots in parliament now, we are doomed. They are either for the most part corrupt, inept, or outright thugs. And yet without a choice (in certain provinces it isn't a choice at all who to vote for) we will be stuck with these losers for an eternity. As for the banned 111, almost all of them also deserve the simple description of 'those who can't be honest, become Thai politicians*"

* or civil servants

Have you heard of the NOTA option ( not the PAD one) in this case if NOTA comes first elections are re-run asap with new candidates. This will organically assure only people who represent the electorate are elected and not those who serve selfish or narrow special interests.

[Boxclever]

So PTP might choose 2 Shin family members as their top 2 candidates. This would be a clear statement - PTP are fully supporting the Shins.

Those who deplore the Shins, DON'T vote for PTP.

Those who support the Shins, vote for PTP.

This is very Black and White. Very digital - 0 or 1 only.

And see where the chips fall.

And both sides, red or yellow, we beseech you, don't complain whatever the outcome may be, accept the popular vote, however abhorrent it may be to some of you.

Then together, work on any reforms the Thais may want for the future. Peacefully, please.

Thanks to Suthep reuniting the red faction you know the PTP will win and you know very well another Suthep will appear in a couple of years and the whole stupid process will start over again, and again!

Yes!....the only thing that will bring about TRUE democracy in Thailand is a peoples revolution, same as the great European & Aamerican revolutions of the last two centuries.

Only then they will have true democracy

Edited December 17, 2013 by Boxclever