If you could start learning Thai from scratch...

[monkeyboots]

First I would ask WHY I was learning - it's a very important question to answer. Then I would think carefully about HOW I wanted to learn. Some people can sit with a book and absorb a lot - a friend taught himself to read and write from just a bilingual dictionary. Other people might be better off with alphabet flashcards (easy to make yourself). learningthai.com is a great resource for beginners and higher levels if computers are more your thing. I would echo everyone who mentioned the importance of reading and writing - improves your tones and you can practice reading all the time if you're based here. Throw yourself into situations where you have to speak Thai rather than your mother tongue. Don't be afraid to just sit and listen to conversations. Find a sympathetic listener - partner/friend/neighbour - who will help you where needed but not correct everything you say. Ask questions.

[danphuket]

I would learn how to type in early stages and use available language software as soon as possible.

SOFTWARE; such as??

Paiboon Talking Thai Dictionary, anki flash cards for example

[Aforek]

My reading is good, my speaking is so so. I have a very poor memory and forget a lot of words. I would change my brain for a new one that doesn't forget everything...

Every time I learn a new word or a new expression , I write it ( in Thai ) in an exercise book with , in front , translation in French or English; I have now a long list of words in this book and regularly I revise it: vey effective!!

I believe in "learn by heart " and now I feel I have much vocabulary; when I read, I use less and less my dictionary.

When I am in the street, if I see a sign with a text that I don't understand, I write it on a paper, and when back at home, I translate it and I write it in my exercise book.

[Briggsy]

In answer to your last question, I was advised right from the beginning to make a big effort with the tones. I did this and it has paid off.

Non-speakers who say, "Stuff the tones, i will learn the words first," invariably end up with poor pronunciation and zero tone use severely limiting the level of fluency they can reach.

Use this to help with tones

[Ratsima]

First off, DO learn Thai if you're going to spend a substantial amount of time here. Your experience will be richer and more fun than if you didn't. Don't give up, everyone reaches a plateau now and then, but trust your effort will pay off in the long run.

Secondly, DO learn to read & write. I refused to learn my first couple of years here and it was a mistake. Once I could read a lot of problems I was having became easier to understand, and acquiring new vocabulary became easier. The other thing about reading and writing is that it's easier to learn than speaking/listening - so it keeps your confidence level up.

Have fun.

I gave up because after years and years of study and after learning how to read, I still made absolutely zero progress learning how to speak and understand. The constant failure to understand and to be understood was just way too depressing for me. I'm much happier now that I've accepted the fact that I will never learn conversational Thai.

For example: The other day I was on a long bicycle ride. I stopped to buy water three times. Each time I asked for น้ำเปล่า in my best Thai. Each time the shopkeeper looked at me as if I'd asked for tickets to a Puccini opera.

So, after 17 years of on and off study and after living here for nine years, I can't even ask for a bottle of plain water.

It was time to give up.

[kriswillems]

I made a few mistakes:

1. Rosetta stone - it was a waste of time.

2. Trying to learn Thai by myself, without teacher. You need a teacher to get your pronunciation right.

3. Trying to use transcription/transliteration. I think it is better to start with the Thai script from the very beginning

4. Going to bad schools/ using non qualified teachers. A good school should have many books, many levels (also higher levels), and teach 3 or more hours per day, every day.

5. Reading not enough - you should read, read and read again

6. Not learn to type more early. Typing is a first step to chatting. Chatting is an excellent way to learn natural speaking language.

7. Stop studying in a school. If you afford it : don't ever stop.

[Rumblecat]

For example: The other day I was on a long bicycle ride. I stopped to buy water three times. Each time I asked for น้ำเปล่า in my best Thai. Each time the shopkeeper looked at me as if I'd asked for tickets to a Puccini opera.

So, after 17 years of on and off study and after living here for nine years, I can't even ask for a bottle of plain water.

It was time to give up.

I understand that your reasons for quitting are more complicated than just the water thing, but if it's any consolation Thais never seem to understand me when I ask for water. I've had my teacher practice with me, over and over again, to make sure I'm saying it right. Teacher says the accent, the tones, everything is spot on.

Order in restaurant. Ask for water. Waitress has no idea what I'm wanting.

Same in the shop.

Same everywhere.

It might be that they're just not expecting the foreigner to ask in Thai so their ears are tuned in. I don't know. But it's only for water. Everything else seems to be okay. Anyone else find this..?

[Sirius1935]

I wasted a few months trying to learn vocabulary which didn't work for me. I always forgot the words. Then I discovered what worked for me was learning phrases. I never forgot them and I took off like a rocket after that.

I learnt to read Thai early on which was the best thing I did.

Then I moved to Chiang Rai and I live in an area where they speak no English at all. Got a very talkative maid who taught me a lot.

I think the secret to learning Thai (apart from having a flair for languages and a good memory) is having a good ear, as in music.

[Sirius1935]

For example: The other day I was on a long bicycle ride. I stopped to buy water three times. Each time I asked for น้ำเปล่า in my best Thai. Each time the shopkeeper looked at me as if I'd asked for tickets to a Puccini opera.

So, after 17 years of on and off study and after living here for nine years, I can't even ask for a bottle of plain water.

It was time to give up.

I understand that your reasons for quitting are more complicated than just the water thing, but if it's any consolation Thais never seem to understand me when I ask for water. I've had my teacher practice with me, over and over again, to make sure I'm saying it right. Teacher says the accent, the tones, everything is spot on.

Order in restaurant. Ask for water. Waitress has no idea what I'm wanting.

Same in the shop.

Same everywhere.

It might be that they're just not expecting the foreigner to ask in Thai so their ears are tuned in. I don't know. But it's only for water. Everything else seems to be okay. Anyone else find this..?

No, never had any trouble with that. I can't advise better than your teacher on pronunciation but what I say sound a bit like "Nam Phlough". It works in the North and the South.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Sirius1935

[edwardandtubs]

Did you actually put น้ำเปล่า in a sentence like เอาน้ำเปล่าหนึ่งขวด? If you actually string together a sentence it makes it a lot easier for the other person to understand.

[GotR1GHT]

First off, DO learn Thai if you're going to spend a substantial amount of time here. Your experience will be richer and more fun than if you didn't. Don't give up, everyone reaches a plateau now and then, but trust your effort will pay off in the long run.

Secondly, DO learn to read & write. I refused to learn my first couple of years here and it was a mistake. Once I could read a lot of problems I was having became easier to understand, and acquiring new vocabulary became easier. The other thing about reading and writing is that it's easier to learn than speaking/listening - so it keeps your confidence level up.

Have fun.

I gave up because after years and years of study and after learning how to read, I still made absolutely zero progress learning how to speak and understand. The constant failure to understand and to be understood was just way too depressing for me. I'm much happier now that I've accepted the fact that I will never learn conversational Thai.

For example: The other day I was on a long bicycle ride. I stopped to buy water three times. Each time I asked for น้ำเปล่า in my best Thai. Each time the shopkeeper looked at me as if I'd asked for tickets to a Puccini opera.

So, after 17 years of on and off study and after living here for nine years, I can't even ask for a bottle of plain water.

It was time to give up.

Well if you learned thai for 17 years and can't even order water then you're doing something terrible wrong.

น้ำ is a high tone,maybe you didn't pronounce it correctly(or what @rumblecat said "It might be that they're just not expecting the foreigner to ask in Thai so their ears are tuned in",which is true sometimes).

Thai is very hard and time consuming language to learn.It isn't just enough to learn only vocabulary like in most languages but actually learn how to pronounce correct tones with EVERY WORD you learned.Thai is tonal language and that makes it so hard to learn.

[danphuket]

First off, DO learn Thai if you're going to spend a substantial amount of time here. Your experience will be richer and more fun than if you didn't. Don't give up, everyone reaches a plateau now and then, but trust your effort will pay off in the long run.

Secondly, DO learn to read & write. I refused to learn my first couple of years here and it was a mistake. Once I could read a lot of problems I was having became easier to understand, and acquiring new vocabulary became easier. The other thing about reading and writing is that it's easier to learn than speaking/listening - so it keeps your confidence level up.

Have fun.

I gave up because after years and years of study and after learning how to read, I still made absolutely zero progress learning how to speak and understand. The constant failure to understand and to be understood was just way too depressing for me. I'm much happier now that I've accepted the fact that I will never learn conversational Thai.

For example: The other day I was on a long bicycle ride. I stopped to buy water three times. Each time I asked for น้ำเปล่า in my best Thai. Each time the shopkeeper looked at me as if I'd asked for tickets to a Puccini opera.

So, after 17 years of on and off study and after living here for nine years, I can't even ask for a bottle of plain water.

It was time to give up.

That is not true that you can't learn conversational Thai. It is a matter of effort+ability+guidance. If you lack one of it you can compensate by 2 others. Trust me, after you listen to (and repeat after!) Pimsluer, Practical Situational Thai, listen to 5 drama series, listen to radio every day for 30 minutes, go through all Paiboon books with audio, make a habit of having a simple conversation for 15 minutes every day (use language exchange, sharedtalk) you will be able to order a bottle of water!

[Ratsima]

I've been through Becker, Pimsleur, Rosetta Stone, and 70% of High Speed Thai. I've spent hours with audio analysis software trying to improve my pronunciation. I've watched thirty minutes of Thai news per day for the last eight years. I watch a soap opera or two weekly. I started studying in 1996 with the Becker book and cassette tapes which I listened to for an hour a day while commuting. Many people have tried to help me with my pronunciation. They have all given up with a shake if the head.

After spending hundreds and hundreds of hours and dollars I finally realized that the pursuit was hopeless. No one understands anything I say and I don't understand any spoken Thai at all. It is by far the biggest, most frustrating and most humiliating failure of my life.

[danphuket]

I've been through Becker, Pimsleur, Rosetta Stone, and 70% of High Speed Thai. I've spent hours with audio analysis software trying to improve my pronunciation. I've watched thirty minutes of Thai news per day for the last eight years. I watch a soap opera or two weekly. I started studying in 1996 with the Becker book and cassette tapes which I listened to for an hour a day while commuting. Many people have tried to help me with my pronunciation. They have all given up with a shake if the head. After spending hundreds and hundreds of hours and dollars I finally realized that the pursuit was hopeless. No one understands anything I say and I don't understand any spoken Thai at all. It is by far the biggest, most frustrating and most humiliating failure of my life.

That is hard to believe that after such a hard work you are still not conversational. What is the problem? The tones? Vowel length?

[Ratsima]

If I knew what the problem was I could figure out how to fix it.

When I hear spoken Thai I can't pick out any words at all. It's just an unintelligible buzz.

When I listen to my wife talk to friends or family on the phone or in person I understand zero. But, if she repeats it to me in what she calls "Rosetta Stone Thai", I understand quite a bit.

When watch the Thai TV news in the morning I don't understand anything the announcers say. Not a word. However, I can read some of the on screen text and usually understand the SMS messages posted at the bottom of the screen.

[danphuket]

If I knew what the problem was I could figure out how to fix it. When I hear spoken Thai I can't pick out any words at all. It's just an unintelligible buzz. When I listen to my wife talk to friends or family on the phone or in person I understand zero. But, if she repeats it to me in what she calls "Rosetta Stone Thai", I understand quite a bit. When watch the Thai TV news in the morning I don't understand anything the announcers say. Not a word. However, I can read some of the on screen text and usually understand the SMS messages posted at the bottom of the screen.

I have a similar problem with listening to news or radio. Sometimes I don't understand at all, occasionally I get to know roughly what the conversation is about. My solution was to switch to simpler texts with audio recordings, like this one: http://thairecordings.com/

It is designed for intermediate learners. My vocabulary is sufficient to understand most of the text without a dictionary. There will be around 10-15 new word per each text.

In my opinion, blindly listening to material that is much more challenging than we are capable of comprehending helps only with pronunciation and intonation. I do listen myself mainly for that reason.

[danphuket]

What about your speaking? What is the most challenging part?

[GotR1GHT]

If I knew what the problem was I could figure out how to fix it. When I hear spoken Thai I can't pick out any words at all. It's just an unintelligible buzz. When I listen to my wife talk to friends or family on the phone or in person I understand zero. But, if she repeats it to me in what she calls "Rosetta Stone Thai", I understand quite a bit. When watch the Thai TV news in the morning I don't understand anything the announcers say. Not a word. However, I can read some of the on screen text and usually understand the SMS messages posted at the bottom of the screen.

Can you understand this? Level 5 has 10 parts,she is really a great teacher.Also,would be nice if you post some video on youtube of you speaking thai(you don't have to show face ),just to see what's the problem,i'm sure someone would give you good advice.

Edited January 3, 2014 by GotR1GHT

[Ratsima]

I only looked at the first part. I didn't understand much. It just goes by too fast. My brain can't parse Thai at that speed. It's the same feeling I get when watching TV or listening to conversation. It goes by too quickly. I miss a word or two which render the sentence unintelligible and pretty soon I've lost the meaning of the whole utterance.

I bet that if it were written I'd understand most of it.

Thanks for trying to help, but I really am done with it.

[Rumblecat]

I only looked at the first part. I didn't understand much. It just goes by too fast. My brain can't parse Thai at that speed. It's the same feeling I get when watching TV or listening to conversation. It goes by too quickly. I miss a word or two which render the sentence unintelligible and pretty soon I've lost the meaning of the whole utterance. I bet that if it were written I'd understand most of it. Thanks for trying to help, but I really am done with it.

You're not alone on that. I can read okay and speak okay but my listening comprehension is terrible unless people talk very slowly to me like I've been in a car accident or something. Like you say, one or two missed words throws the whole thing off.

[Slip]

I only looked at the first part. I didn't understand much. It just goes by too fast. My brain can't parse Thai at that speed. It's the same feeling I get when watching TV or listening to conversation. It goes by too quickly. I miss a word or two which render the sentence unintelligible and pretty soon I've lost the meaning of the whole utterance. I bet that if it were written I'd understand most of it. Thanks for trying to help, but I really am done with it.

I only looked at the first part. I didn't understand much. It just goes by too fast. My brain can't parse Thai at that speed. It's the same feeling I get when watching TV or listening to conversation. It goes by too quickly. I miss a word or two which render the sentence unintelligible and pretty soon I've lost the meaning of the whole utterance. I bet that if it were written I'd understand most of it. Thanks for trying to help, but I really am done with it.

You're not alone on that. I can read okay and speak okay but my listening comprehension is terrible unless people talk very slowly to me like I've been in a car accident or something. Like you say, one or two missed words throws the whole thing off.

The same for me. I have never formally studied Thai, but I've put in a lot of work over the years. I understand tones and vowel length and speak my limited Thai 'chat' I am told, I can read, although not well, I can write the letters although not a sentence, but once someone starts to talk I just fall apart. I too get confused easily once I misunderstand a word. As a teacher, I know this is a 'listening skill' problem- I may get the 'gist' or some of the detail, but still end up lost and so far, I just haven't been able to solve it for myself.

[Ratsima]

Exactly. I never have a conversation because I can't get past the first utterance made by the other person. How can you practice when the conversation stalls almost immediately?

Plus, conversational Thai seems to be so different from what is taught.

Last night my wife started a sentence with ฝาก which seemed totally out of place to me. Of course, I stumbled on that and missed the rest.

(ฝากขอบคุณ....)

[edwardandtubs]

One problem is unrealistic expectations. It takes many years of study before you can really hold a conversation in a foreign language, but people expect instant results. Another problem is that Thai people are not used to talking in Thai with non-native speakers. How many times have you been asked 'Can you speak Thai?' as if it was black/white issue - either you're fluent or you know nothing. Native English speakers are used to simplifying their speech for non-native speakers, but most Thai people are not able to do that. You might ask a simple question and they'll ramble away as if you're a native speaker. A further problem is the lack of learning material for those above beginner level. Becker's intermediate book is rubbish and the other options use discredited methods from the 1970s.

[Ratsima]

Right. For Thais "speaking Thai" is an all or nothing concept. That's why, as I saiid an earlier post, I conceal the fact that I can read. If a Thai finds out you can read they immediately assume you are conversationally fluent. An instant conversation stopper.

Now that I've admitted defeat I'm much better off.

[danphuket]

Normally if I don't understand something I start asking a lot of questions which require simple 'yes' or 'no' answers or answers with numbers to figure out overall meaning.

Does this machine have a guarantee?

How much?

What time?

Which day?

I don't understand you well. Could you repeat slowly like you will do for your 3 year old son?

If this doesn't help the last hope is Paiboon publishing dictionary or google translate.

[kriswillems]

One problem is unrealistic expectations. It takes many years of study before you can really hold a conversation in a foreign language, but people expect instant results. Another problem is that Thai people are not used to talking in Thai with non-native speakers. How many times have you been asked 'Can you speak Thai?' as if it was black/white issue - either you're fluent or you know nothing. Native English speakers are used to simplifying their speech for non-native speakers, but most Thai people are not able to do that. You might ask a simple question and they'll ramble away as if you're a native speaker. A further problem is the lack of learning material for those above beginner level. Becker's intermediate book is rubbish and the other options use discredited methods from the 1970s.

I think I have to disagree with that. If you're European and very motivated to study another European language you can have a conversation in that language in 3 to 6 moths after you started studying (depending on the similarity with your native language).

With motivated I mean: you do nothing else but studying that language - full time study.

For Thai, I think most people can reach a conversational level in less than 1 year, again if they are really motivated. Chula courses and union based courses prove this.

(PS. With a conversation, I mean a conversation about everyday life - not a discussion about combustion engines).

Edited January 6, 2014 by kriswillems

[dazzle]

Unless you're working here or have a Thai spouse, you'll most probably only be speaking to Thais you giving money to: taxi drivers, waitresses, store clerks, bar girls, hotel staff, bartenders, hairdressers, etc. Start here - you're paying them, so they'll probably be patient with you.

So pick a topic and keep getting better at it, food is always good. Thais seem to love to talk about food, and you gotta eat!

When I was learning Thai I had a lot of fun talking with taxi drivers. There a captive audience in a somewhat quiet environment, many speak some English and are somewhat bored (if they're not gabbing on the phone.) I learned a lot of slang, and idioms from Taxi drivers. You'll pick up some Lao (Isaarn) too!

[Seizhin]

Learned Thai from scratch.
Took me 6 months to start combining words and reading/writing.

After 8 years, I can read and write, but could still not write properly, but at least it's eligable, I can read agreement, and write paragraph in Thai. I still dont enjoy seeing a page full of Thai words though, it gives me headache.

[DavidHouston]

I wonder whether learning how to write Thai is a basic skill which new learners should acquire during their initial learning phase. I suggest that in today's world gaining familiarization with the Thai keyboard and learning how to touch-type Thai are more fundamental skills than the mechanical reproduction of letters, vowels, tone marks and words via a pen or pencil. What do you think?

[danphuket]

I wonder whether learning how to write Thai is a basic skill which new learners should acquire during their initial learning phase. I suggest that in today's world gaining familiarization with the Thai keyboard and learning how to touch-type Thai are more fundamental skills than the mechanical reproduction of letters, vowels, tone marks and words via a pen or pencil. What do you think?

I think that a beginner student should learn how to write all the letters first and then switch to typing as soon as possible. With all the available technology (Facebook, Line, electronic dictionaries, translators), that will speed up learning process significantly. Besides, who cares about writing using pen or pencil nowadays? Speaking about English, 99% if the time I am typing.