Taking voting rights away from poor and uneducated not the answer: Thai election commissioner

[jaidam]

I am really and honestly disgusted by the borderline fascist bull**** that some are spewing here.

Voting rights based on education?

So if you are kept from education by the same people that will not give you voting rights, because you are uneducated...that is okay in your eyes?

What hole did you people crawl out of?

If you wanted cataracts operated on, you would see an eye specialist. If you needed company bookwork done you would see an accountant, if an airplane is broken an aircraft engineer is called in, but if a sensible choice must be made for electing a responsible government you want some drunken halfwit to be able to choose? You know it makes sense for some standards to be met to qualify as a valid conscientious voter.

[Credo]

I am really and honestly disgusted by the borderline fascist bull**** that some are spewing here.

Voting rights based on education?

So if you are kept from education by the same people that will not give you voting rights, because you are uneducated...that is okay in your eyes?

What hole did you people crawl out of?

If you wanted cataracts operated on, you would see an eye specialist. If you needed company bookwork done you would see an accountant, if an airplane is broken an aircraft engineer is called in, but if a sensible choice must be made for electing a responsible government you want some drunken halfwit to be able to choose? You know it makes sense for some standards to be met to qualify as a valid conscientious voter.

The problem is who decides who gets to vote?

Perhaps we should take it away from women? Maybe landless people should be denied the vote?

Your example is flawed, since in a democracy, we want a representation of the population. Standards yes, but let's start with standards for those that are allowed to be in office and maybe that standard should be based on ethics.

[whybother]

Why aren't people under 18 allowed to vote?

Food for thought.

[seajae]

this isnt the answer, education does not give people the right to vote, being a citizen of the country does. What they need to stop are the populist policies(village fund, rice scam etc) that are being run by the ptp to garner the poors votes.

There is other side of that coin too. Were the yellow harsh policies of favoring only Bangkok (elite) and their lackeys and staging a military coup once in a while to keep their power any better?! It was certainly not.

In the beginning of a democracy rule people often vote for populists but they do learn eventually. BTW, the farmers in the north are not that stupid today, they actually accept money from all of the candidates but vote the way they themselves want anyway. It would be stupid not to accept free money

nice try to turn what was actually said, you edited this bit out "Until the bribery/vote rigging etc is removed there will never be fair and honest voting in Thailand, it isnt a matter of reds and yellows, the political vote buying has to be stopped before it destroys the country.",

Notice I said reds and yellows unlike your simply red crap. This is about everyone, not your personal favourites. Same could be said for the northerners who have never paid tax but get all the money from the ptp and send the reds to Bangkok to burn and loot it. The country has to be put first, not either side.

[pisico]

He is dead right on that one and we have seen a wonderful example in the last 2 years of the PT Govt

The rest he has got right as well.

However this time round the ordinary people are out there demanding change and are not prepared to leave it to the politicians.

So... Suthep and Abhisit, politicians that during their unelected tenure did nothing to stamp out corruption or pushed for political reform are the only choice?

Suthep and Abhisit are to be trusted (never mind the Palm Oil Scam) because they were once in power, albeit unelected in a Democratic way by the PEOPLE according to the CONSTITUTION.

It gets tiresome and ludicrous the mantra: Thaksin bad. Abhisit, Suthep or any Democrat good.

How many millions of the so called "ordinary people" are on the streets? So the other 63 million Thais do not count. I get it: Bangkok is Thailand to the anti-Thaksinistas pro anything Democrat.

Farangs beware: "I do not trust, respect or like Farang!" Suthep; as he declared his true color to the Media, national and foreign before the elections he miserably lost to Yingluck.

That is a common misconception that Abhisit's government did not do anything for Thailand. Abhisit government did more for the benefit of ALL THAIS than any other government before his. It's not about democrats or PTP, it's about having competent people in the important places. People who know how to do the job which will benefit the country, not some guy in Dubai. All Thailand has now is bunch of apparatchiks waiting to receive their orders via Skype. It's ludicrous.

I don't see any problem with Suthep's statement about farangs. It's their country, it's their culture. You should show respect if you want to be respected. Also you should earn respect, not demand it. Same goes for trust.

You are guilty of Sophistry (look it up), Respect is not the issue. Neither has been questioned or demanded. Your attempt to deviate the focus of the issue is a non sequitur. If you like the Democrats because Mark comes from a rich family (daddy is one of the big wigs at CP Foods and he is an Eaton graduate), just say you think he is more qualified than others. As to what he did to improve Thailand under his tenure: please, enumerate specifically what he did to stamp out corruption, improve the life of Thais upcountry, etc.. Do not be vague or generic. Simply because you "feel" he is good is not a factual reason. Care to comment on the Palm Oil Scam?

Well perhaps you'd like to make very specific comments why vote buying is OK.

And some specific comments in regard to the fact that none of the paymasters governments did anything whatever of any substance to stop vote buying or to massively reduce corruption or put any systems in place to quickly and systematically find corruption and take serious action, nor increase penalties for corruption.

And perhaps you'd like to give some very specific comments on the fact that none of the paymasters governments discusses or introduced overriding policies let alone specific initiatives which would reduce the income gap and would give a large % of Thais the means to have a much better quality of life through their own productivity. Nothing, zero, even to today.

And perhaps you'd care to recognize that for most of it's term the abhisit government was trying to deal with paid gangs trying to burn down Bangkok, etc.

Please give totally specific answers and don't be vague.

You introduce the non sequitur of vote buying. Parroting the usual mantra. Sophistry is used by those who are so blind (or obsessed with a party or an icon) to "feel" they are relevant.

At any rate, be it a matter of principle or that this forum is the only semblance of life some may have, the fact remains that neither of us Farangs can vote or influence politics in Thailand, no matter how rabid we are being Suthepistas or Thaksinistas.

How does it affect anyone one of us Farangs (in terms of real life, cost of living, safety issues and health) the fact that there is a Thaksin or a wannabee PM such as Suthep in office.

However the ludicrous aspect of this back and forth of comments, why no one has addressed the Palm Oil Scam concocted by Abhisit and company? All the Suthepistas fall into acute amnesia when it comes to the many shortcomings of their adored Thai politicos.

[seajae]

this isnt the answer, education does not give people the right to vote, being a citizen of the country does. What they need to stop are the populist policies(village fund, rice scam etc) that are being run by the ptp to garner the poors votes. If these schemes are stopped and outlawed then it removes the power the ptp/thaksin holds over them. As the article says, the poor vote for who ever is willing to pay them so this needs to stop in the north and south. Until the bribery/vote rigging etc is removed there will never be fair and honest voting in Thailand, it isnt a matter of reds and yellows, the political vote buying has to be stopped before it destroys the country.

Can an educated Bangkok person go to a Red Village and buy votes? Nope.

Can a uneducated Red shirt go to a hi so condo in Bangkok and buy votes? Nope.

I don't see much of a problem here.

I think Red shirts are being paid to vote how they would vote anyway and Yellow shirts are being paid to vote the way they would anyway.

I don't see a problem?

you really need to read more, most farmers were not thaksin voters until he started paying them via the "village funds & rice scams" paid for by the people that pay all the taxes, ie, not the villagers and farmers so without the vote buying ptp would fall away to nothing and the red shirts would shit themsleves. This is blatantly obvious to everyone except those thaksin/red shirt appologists. I am not in favour of the yellows either, I totally disagree with the hi so bullshit and just want a fair Thailand where everyone is equal and votes are not bought, something you seem not to worry about.

[55Jay]

Interesting the EC would feel the need to respond to this. Wonder why? At any rate, glad to see their response.

I would be interested to know if those espousing this idea would include a poor man/woman standing next to them at the protest? They clearly share the same ideas, so they must have some intelligence even if they don't have a degree. But they are poor so can't vote = a lost vote for the Dems or, at least, not for PTP.

What about poor people in the South who categorically reject PTP and embrace the Democratic Party?

Edited December 21, 2013 by 55Jay

[Bakseeda]

Lucky we are foreigners and can pack up anytime and go home... Thai politics are a pantomine..."Oh no they're not".. Oh yes they are... The easy way is to only give a vote to people who have the previous year of National Insurance contributions... what right has a person to vote if they themselves do not contribute to the nation.. Voting should not be a God given right... just a thought..!

[spare5]

Why aren't people under 18 allowed to vote?

Food for thought.

Because they may not have enough information to make a correct decision.

Same same why animal are not allowed to vote, can't make the right decision.

[thailiketoo]

Like someone posed: Is a Thai education really an education or an impressive piece of paper???

Ask your Thai doctor. You do have a Thai doctor don't you?

[thailiketoo]

Why aren't people under 18 allowed to vote?

Food for thought.

Because they may not have enough information to make a correct decision.

Same same why animal are not allowed to vote, can't make the right decision.

No sorry. Not the correct decision. They can't make a decision. Put some ink on my dogs paw and she can make the correct decision based on chance. But she does not know why she is making that choice.

[thailiketoo]

Lucky we are foreigners and can pack up anytime and go home... Thai politics are a pantomine..."Oh no they're not".. Oh yes they are... The easy way is to only give a vote to people who have the previous year of National Insurance contributions... what right has a person to vote if they themselves do not contribute to the nation.. Voting should not be a God given right... just a thought..!

Pity the blacks who were in slavery the year before. Just a thought. In the early years of the USA I believe Jefferson only wanted to let landowners vote for the same reasons. Others prevailed.

[Ulic]

Not sure I understand this vote buying. I can accept 500 baht from each side or whoever is handing out the baht, then when I step behind the curtain to vote, pick whoever I want. Payment just ensures turnout not support, does it not ?

[thailiketoo]

this isnt the answer, education does not give people the right to vote, being a citizen of the country does. What they need to stop are the populist policies(village fund, rice scam etc) that are being run by the ptp to garner the poors votes. If these schemes are stopped and outlawed then it removes the power the ptp/thaksin holds over them. As the article says, the poor vote for who ever is willing to pay them so this needs to stop in the north and south. Until the bribery/vote rigging etc is removed there will never be fair and honest voting in Thailand, it isnt a matter of reds and yellows, the political vote buying has to be stopped before it destroys the country.

Can an educated Bangkok person go to a Red Village and buy votes? Nope.

Can a uneducated Red shirt go to a hi so condo in Bangkok and buy votes? Nope.

I don't see much of a problem here.

I think Red shirts are being paid to vote how they would vote anyway and Yellow shirts are being paid to vote the way they would anyway.

I don't see a problem?

you really need to read more, most farmers were not thaksin voters until he started paying them via the "village funds & rice scams" paid for by the people that pay all the taxes, ie, not the villagers and farmers so without the vote buying ptp would fall away to nothing and the red shirts would shit themsleves. This is blatantly obvious to everyone except those thaksin/red shirt appologists. I am not in favour of the yellows either, I totally disagree with the hi so bullshit and just want a fair Thailand where everyone is equal and votes are not bought, something you seem not to worry about.

Oh yea? Since 2001? Check your facts. Of course you could supply links to prove all the farmers being paid to vote for the Yellow shirts; since the vote was for sale...

I think what you are saying is that in the beginning the farmers votes were for sale and Thaksin was the first to buy their votes and thereafter they developed a hard fast allegiance to his party and only sold their votes to red shirts. With your story, "most farmers were not Thaksin voters until he started paying them via the "village funds & rice scams" paid for by the people that pay all the taxes" how did he got elected the first time?

No, it's pretty simple. If you go into a red village to buy a vote they will sell you as many as you want but the village is going to vote red no matter what.

[thailiketoo]

I am really and honestly disgusted by the borderline fascist bull**** that some are spewing here.

Voting rights based on education?

So if you are kept from education by the same people that will not give you voting rights, because you are uneducated...that is okay in your eyes?

What hole did you people crawl out of?

If you wanted cataracts operated on, you would see an eye specialist. If you needed company bookwork done you would see an accountant, if an airplane is broken an aircraft engineer is called in, but if a sensible choice must be made for electing a responsible government you want some drunken halfwit to be able to choose? You know it makes sense for some standards to be met to qualify as a valid conscientious voter.

The drunken halfwit can choose another drunken halfwit if he or she so pleases. As long as there is no freedom of the press no one is going to know about it anyway. Any system falls apart without freedom of the press and as far as I can see both sides don't want freedom of the press.

[DocN]

I am really and honestly disgusted by the borderline fascist bull**** that some are spewing here.

Voting rights based on education?

So if you are kept from education by the same people that will not give you voting rights, because you are uneducated...that is okay in your eyes?

What hole did you people crawl out of?

If you wanted cataracts operated on, you would see an eye specialist. If you needed company bookwork done you would see an accountant, if an airplane is broken an aircraft engineer is called in, but if a sensible choice must be made for electing a responsible government you want some drunken halfwit to be able to choose? You know it makes sense for some standards to be met to qualify as a valid conscientious voter.

I want a drunken halfwit to choose!

I want a not- drunken halfwit to choose!

I want the educated elite to choose!

It as much the drunken halfwits country as it is the educated's country.

[thailiketoo]

I am really and honestly disgusted by the borderline fascist bull**** that some are spewing here.

Voting rights based on education?

So if you are kept from education by the same people that will not give you voting rights, because you are uneducated...that is okay in your eyes?

What hole did you people crawl out of?

If you wanted cataracts operated on, you would see an eye specialist. If you needed company bookwork done you would see an accountant, if an airplane is broken an aircraft engineer is called in, but if a sensible choice must be made for electing a responsible government you want some drunken halfwit to be able to choose? You know it makes sense for some standards to be met to qualify as a valid conscientious voter.

I want a drunken halfwit to choose!

I want a not- drunken halfwit to choose!

I want the educated elite to choose!

It as much the drunken halfwits country as it is the educated's country.

I agree with you and would add that I want a free press to report who is whom. Did I write that right? Or is it who is who or whom is whom?

I want to make sure because I don't want some drunken twit telling me I'm not smart enough to post on the same forum as him.

Edited December 21, 2013 by thailiketoo

[spare5]

Not sure I understand this vote buying. I can accept 500 baht from each side or whoever is handing out the baht, then when I

step behind the curtain to vote, pick whoever I want. Payment just ensures turnout not support, does it not ?

Correct. Said Korn, a DEM leader, to Foreign journalists. Recording & transcript avail if you search.

[bkkfaranguy]

I am really and honestly disgusted by the borderline fascist bull**** that some are spewing here.

Voting rights based on education?

So if you are kept from education by the same people that will not give you voting rights, because you are uneducated...that is okay in your eyes?

What hole did you people crawl out of?

If you wanted cataracts operated on, you would see an eye specialist. If you needed company bookwork done you would see an accountant, if an airplane is broken an aircraft engineer is called in, but if a sensible choice must be made for electing a responsible government you want some drunken halfwit to be able to choose? You know it makes sense for some standards to be met to qualify as a valid conscientious voter.

I want a drunken halfwit to choose!

I want a not- drunken halfwit to choose!

I want the educated elite to choose!

It as much the drunken halfwits country as it is the educated's country.

I have not figured out yet whether Jaidam is for real or just a Troll, in any case if this policy was paased I do not think he would be able to vote!

[dukebowling]

Taking voting rights away from poor and uneducated not the answer.

But giving more voting rights to the rich and educated is the answer.

The level of education or wealth does not correlate to competence or righteousness.

Edited December 21, 2013 by dukebowling

[Scott]

Posts and replies deleted.

[scorecard]

Not sure I understand this vote buying. I can accept 500 baht from each side or whoever is handing out the baht, then when I step behind the curtain to vote, pick whoever I want. Payment just ensures turnout not support, does it not ? width=20 alt=blink.png pagespeed_url_hash=3007605675>

Not quite that simple.

Many folks would be frightened to not vote for the mob who gave them cash.

Plus there was an incident a little while back where the polling booth officials, at many polling places, placed the cubicles, no curtains, where it was possible for officials or whoever to get a view of where the voting marks were being written.

Plus in many villages the local village chief or local red shirt chief and their red minions would be watching carefully who is canvassing in their village. Any canvassers who are not red would be taking their lives in their hands to enter many of these villages.

Plus a very large percentage of villagers would not want to be scrutinized / labeled in any way, fearing severe reprisals from other villages.

In this true in all villages? No of course not but it is true in plenty.

Edited December 21, 2013 by scorecard

[thailiketoo]

Not sure I understand this vote buying. I can accept 500 baht from each side or whoever is handing out the baht, then when I step behind the curtain to vote, pick whoever I want. Payment just ensures turnout not support, does it not ? width=20 alt=blink.png pagespeed_url_hash=3007605675>

Not quite that simple.

Many folks would be frightened to not vote for the mob who gave them cash.

Plus there was an incident a little while back where the polling booth officials, at many polling places, placed the cubicles, no curtains, where it was possible for officials or whoever to get a view of where the voting marks were being written.

I believe for your post to be more than a little known fact that it should be documented with numbers. As far as I know the reds paid reds to vote red and that is that.

[scorecard]

Sorry for the way my post in constructed below. I can't make the quote function work.

Scorecard: Well perhaps you'd like to make very specific comments why vote buying is OK.

And some specific comments in regard to the fact that none of the paymasters governments did anything whatever of any substance to stop vote buying or to massively reduce corruption or put any systems in place to quickly and systematically find corruption and take serious action, nor increase penalties for corruption.

And perhaps you'd like to give some very specific comments on the fact that none of the paymasters governments discusses or introduced overriding policies let alone specific initiatives which would reduce the income gap and would give a large % of Thais the means to have a much better quality of life through their own productivity. Nothing, zero, even to today.

And perhaps you'd care to recognize that for most of it's term the abhisit government was trying to deal with paid gangs trying to burn down Bangkok, etc.

Please give totally specific answers and don't be vague.

-

Pisico: You introduce the non sequitur of vote buying. Parroting the usual mantra. Sophistry is used by those who are so blind (or obsessed with a party or an icon) to "feel" they are relevant.

At any rate, be it a matter of principle or that this forum is the only semblance of life some may have, the fact remains that neither of us Farangs can vote or influence politics in Thailand, no matter how rabid we are being Suthepistas or Thaksinistas.

How does it affect anyone one of us Farangs (in terms of real life, cost of living, safety issues and health) the fact that there is a Thaksin or a wannabee PM such as Suthep in office.

However the ludicrous aspect of this back and forth of comments, why no one has addressed the Palm Oil Scam concocted by Abhisit and company? All the Suthepistas fall into acute amnesia when it comes to the many shortcomings of their adored Thai politicos.

-

Scorecard: Well lots of nonsense text but you didn't respond to even one of my very valid points.

There are plenty of folks who understand well that suthep and more of the democrats have baggage and ultimately if they are guilty should be punished the same as anybody who breaks the law.

There are also plenty of folks who are prepared to push that to the side for a while if suthep and his group can generate real and valid reforms, generate massive reduction in the corruption picture, etc.

You mention that neither of us farangs can vote or influence..... . Well there are plenty of contributors here who want their Thai born kids to grow up in a more civil and balanced society with better / equal opportunities for all, a big reduction in the income gap, and with corruption way down. In my case it's Thai born children and Thai born grandchildren.

Given this I contribute to this discussion because I believe it is my duty to be concerned.

On the other hand perhaps there are farang who believe it's fine to just say 'I can't vote so I don't care'. Each to their own.

[55Jay]

Interesting the EC would feel the need to respond to this. Wonder why? At any rate, glad to see their response.

I would be interested to know if those espousing this idea would include a poor man/woman standing next to them at the protest? They clearly share the same ideas, so they must have some intelligence even if they don't have a degree. But they are poor so can't vote = a lost vote for the Dems or, at least, not for PTP.

What about poor people in the South who categorically reject PTP and embrace the Democratic Party?

[scorecard]

Not sure I understand this vote buying. I can accept 500 baht from each side or whoever is handing out the baht, then when I step behind the curtain to vote, pick whoever I want. Payment just ensures turnout not support, does it not ? width=20 alt=blink.png pagespeed_url_hash=3007605675>

Not quite that simple.

Many folks would be frightened to not vote for the mob who gave them cash.

Plus there was an incident a little while back where the polling booth officials, at many polling places, placed the cubicles, no curtains, where it was possible for officials or whoever to get a view of where the voting marks were being written.

I believe for your post to be more than a little known fact that it should be documented with numbers. As far as I know the reds paid reds to vote red and that is that.

So you admit that people were paid to vote for pt?

[scorecard]

Not sure I understand this vote buying. I can accept 500 baht from each side or whoever is handing out the baht, then when I step behind the curtain to vote, pick whoever I want. Payment just ensures turnout not support, does it not ? width=20 alt=blink.png pagespeed_url_hash=3007605675>

Not quite that simple.

Many folks would be frightened to not vote for the mob who gave them cash.

Plus there was an incident a little while back where the polling booth officials, at many polling places, placed the cubicles, no curtains, where it was possible for officials or whoever to get a view of where the voting marks were being written.

I believe for your post to be more than a little known fact that it should be documented with numbers. As far as I know the reds paid reds to vote red and that is that.

No need for data, it's been mentioned in full detail many times before on this forum.

[tx22cb]

Isn't it funny-peculiar that, when the "BKK Elites" say the Poor &/or Uneducated cannot be trusted to vote, they mean those P&Us in the N & NE.

On the other hand, if you are Poor &/or similarly less educated in the South - you're fine, of course your vote counts (because you'd be sensible and vote for the Dems, right? And definitely not for those PTP).

On another note, if Thailand were to go to war with one of its neighbours in the future, guess who will be defending the fatherland? It'll be those 2nd class citizens from the N & NE donning the green fatigues - who would then be toasted for their bravery by the folks in BKK and praised to the skies for their sacrifice.

Don't expect to see many sons of Hi-Sos putting themselves in harm's way on the front lines either .... even though they are supposedly Pro-Nation/Institutions, wear national bands and wave assorted flags in the streets of BKK.

War is the true litmus test to sort out the paper Hypocrites from those who would have to die for their country.

[tomacht8]

Taking voting rights away from poor and uneducated not the answer: Thai election commissioner

I agree.

To take the voting right away for some groups (poor, uneducated, illiterate, taxpayer, blind, deaf yes/no) is not the answer.

They must change the system of distribution of money and become more transparent.

It does not matter who wins the election or who has the majority.

What must be avoided is, that the winner gets the entire state budget and can do with it what he wants.

Perhaps all parties should agree in advance that the state budget must be divided by provinces,

taking into account how many people living in each tschang wat.

A percentage distribution of the state budget (or defined parts) for an election period might be a solution

So the minority do not go out empty-handed.

It can not be that 51% get all and 49% get nothing.

Unequal distribution and corruption are the two core problems in this country.

http://web.nso.go.th

Edited December 21, 2013 by tomacht8

[citizen33]

Many on the forum believe that people in the North and NE sell their votes to the highest bidder and that, if Thaksin's money was removed from the scene, the rural population would happily settle down to the status quo ante. Some of us who have lived in these rural areas think this is a mistaken analysis, but we have not had a great deal of success in getting the doubters to read the research-based literature on vote buying. Just consider though the implications if the people of the North and NE really do vote on sentiment rather than from cash, and what it means if their vote is then removed. My view if that the consequences could be catastrophic. Some on the forum should be careful what they wish for.