Etiquette when cycling

[StreetCowboy]

A couple of etiquette questions cropped up this morning while I was out for a whirl round my suburb.

1.
I was cycling along the edge of the carriageway of a fairly busy road; I was travelling in the direction of traffic. Another cyclist came in the opposite direction - who should move out into the traffic?

2.
I was cycling with the flow of traffic, more or less keeping up. There was another cyclist approaching from a slip lane - this was in a fairly built up area where the road markings are not clear, not taken much notice of, and redundant due to current construction disruption - should I call a warning to him to make sure he's seen me, or would that distract him? In the old days, I'd have rung my bell, but then he'd have stopped me to buy a pound of sausages...

SC

[rebo]

1. Because he is the one who is on the wrong lane he must step aside into the oncoming traffic. But don't forget to call a loud complain to this reckless road user leaving no doubt that it is him who is to blame in case of a front crash.

2. Of course you should shout an unambiguous warning to him otherwise he won't ever learn the lesson. Don't give a thought about reducing your own speed to defuse the potential danger because you are on the main lane and thus clearly in the right.

[n210mp]

I would slow down and keep as far over as possible to the left so that the other rider could pass as near to me as possible and not get in the way of any traffic,

Riding every other day around Pattaya I know that in some circumstances it is sometimes sensible for a cyclist to be on the wrong side of the road, especially when there is a bad or blind bend just in front of you when you wish to make a right hand turn.

If I were to to go from the inner nearside left lane to make a 90 degree turn on the right then surely this must be ten times more dangerous than just popping over to the other side 60 yards before the bend and just before your right hand turn at a point where you could possibly have more time for a manoeuvre and see both directions clearly.

I do not condone cycling in the wrong position when in the left hand lane and I notice that it is mostly done by those both new to the cycling lark who do not have any rear facing mirrors on their bikes or those who are a bit insecure! ( I wonder why they are so insecure on Thailand's safe and well ordered roads)

They are getting confused with the old UK advice of when walking on narrow country lanes it is advisable to walk on he same side as oncoming traffic.

[StreetCowboy]

In the first instance, I moved out - he was cycling closer in to the hoardings than I was in any case - I think that was the right thing to do as the traffic was not going much faster than me, so only one car had to slow down or pull out to avoid me, while the sum of his speed and the traffic was quite a lot, so maybe more of a problem.

In the second instance, I pulled further into my lane away from the verge, and if I recall correctly, called out a polite "Behind you!", and speeded up a little to get past him

SC

[chiangmaiexpat]

There is no "etiquette" in a country where many road users don't even have a clear understanding of basic traffic rules. Situations like this require defensive behaviour and precaution. So far I did not have a problem with oncoming traffic on the wrong side, but it's definitely dangerous at higher speeds and/or if you're not paying attention. The one thing that should be remembered in order to stay safe on the road in Thailand is to expect the unexpected.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[StreetCowboy]

 

There is no "etiquette" in a country where many road users don't even have a clear understanding of basic traffic rules. Situations like this require defensive behaviour and precaution. So far I did not have a problem with oncoming traffic on the wrong side, but it's definitely dangerous at higher speeds and/or if you're not paying attention. The one thing that should be remembered in order to stay safe on the road in Thailand is to expect the unexpected.

Cheers, CM-Expat

 

I think the guy on the wrong side of the road was another expat - he was certainly quite a serious cyclist. The fellow coming in from the side road was a local tradesman, I think.

SC

[wantan]

In Bangkok many vehicles come on the wrong side. You are expected to move "into the traffic" to let them pass. If you do not and there is an accident you may get in trouble. Driving against the traffic flow is widely accepted by the police. Often scooters and cars come on the wrong side. They will hit you without any thought if you dont be careful. Sad but true.

[villagefarang]

I guess I have just lived here too long, in that I never think in terms of rules, or right and wrong.

[StreetCowboy]

 

I guess I have just lived here too long, in that I never think in terms of rules, or right and wrong.

 

I just find that the old "No, after you" dance doesn't work so well on a bicycle when you're sharing a fairly narrow strip of tarmac between the hoardings and traffic passing at 60 kph.

SC

[villagefarang]

 

I guess I have just lived here too long, in that I never think in terms of rules, or right and wrong.

 

I just find that the old "No, after you" dance doesn't work so well on a bicycle when you're sharing a fairly narrow strip of tarmac between the hoardings and traffic passing at 60 kph.

SC

If I come across a tractor or other farm vehicle, cows, buffalos or dogs I don’t mind stopping or slowing down, depending on the situation. Each situation is different and I figure it is my responsibility to keep myself safe regardless of what the rules may happen to be.

[n210mp]

After thinking about it a bit I have come to the conclusion that because the person on the wrong side of the road, in other words the one that is bearing down on you can clearly see what is coming up behind you, then therefore you should stick to the nearside left as much as you can and let him be the one to chose when it is safe to either pull out into the oncoming traffic lane or stop!

But as it has been pointed out by Village ferang where there is no logic or acceptance of any rules there can be no common sense can there?

[wantan]

After thinking about it a bit I have come to the conclusion that because the person on the wrong side of the road, in other words the one that is bearing down on you can clearly see what is coming up behind you, then therefore you should stick to the nearside left as much as you can and let him be the one to chose when it is safe to either pull out into the oncoming traffic lane or stop!

But as it has been pointed out by Village ferang where there is no logic or acceptance of any rules there can be no common sense can there?

Imo you are right. I came to the same conclusion. But what is this worth if the other one is expecting you to "move into the traffic"? If you insist on him to do it you both may crash. And he may will blame you having caused the accident. Thai logic isn't always compatible to western logic

[n210mp]

After thinking about it a bit I have come to the conclusion that because the person on the wrong side of the road, in other words the one that is bearing down on you can clearly see what is coming up behind you, then therefore you should stick to the nearside left as much as you can and let him be the one to chose when it is safe to either pull out into the oncoming traffic lane or stop!

But as it has been pointed out by Village ferang where there is no logic or acceptance of any rules there can be no common sense can there?

Imo you are right. I came to the same conclusion. But what is this worth if the other one is expecting you to "move into the traffic"? If you insist on him to do it you both may crash. And he may will blame you having caused the accident. Thai logic isn't always compatible to western logic

Yes and quite often as I notice on my regular bike rides around lake mabrachan the buggers do insist on passing on your left as though it is their God given right to do so, even though logically they are in the wrong!

[n210mp]

Without wishing to take the thread off topic whilst talking about behaviour, have you noticed or is it my bad luck that the number of miserable and unfriendly farang cyclists seem to be on the increase at least in the area where I bike.

I see them so often, Heads and eyes fixed, looking forward but not apparently seeing another Farang cyclist approaching them on a completely empty and quiet road.

Are they Manic Obsessives or are they just plain unhappy people, I have bike all over the world and one thing in common we cyclists have is a sense of community.

It just seem to have dissipated in the are where I bike.

Am I going off the road in my thoughts or have others found the same thing?

In contrast the Thai cyclists that I come across in spite of the language barriers always find time to stop for a chat give a friendly wave as they go by

[StreetCowboy]

 

I guess I have just lived here too long, in that I never think in terms of rules, or right and wrong.

 

I just find that the old "No, after you" dance doesn't work so well on a bicycle when you're sharing a fairly narrow strip of tarmac between the hoardings and traffic passing at 60 kph.

SC

If I come across a tractor or other farm vehicle, cows, buffalos or dogs I don’t mind stopping or slowing down, depending on the situation. Each situation is different and I figure it is my responsibility to keep myself safe regardless of what the rules may happen to be.

I quite agree. I generally don't try to enforce right of way with other road users.

Although when I'm approaching large junctions, I sometimes move into the middle of my lane, if I'm managing close to the speed of the traffic.

Generally, at large junctions, I prefer to go through a red light when there's no traffic coming, rather than waiting for the green, when I'll be in the mix with all the rest of the traffic.

I still need to figure out the best thing to do when I'm crossing an oncoming slip road.

I had a bit of a wacky ride this afternoon; the worst bit was pulling out into the second lane because a couple of buses had stopped six feet out from the kerb.

And then getting across the main road for the right turn into my suburb - I didn't have much distance, and the traffic was zipping along fairly briskly. I was wishing I'd gone earlier in the morning when the traffic was lighter

SC

[el jefe]

After thinking about it a bit I have come to the conclusion that because the person on the wrong side of the road, in other words the one that is bearing down on you can clearly see what is coming up behind you, then therefore you should stick to the nearside left as much as you can and let him be the one to chose when it is safe to either pull out into the oncoming traffic lane or stop!

But as it has been pointed out by Village ferang where there is no logic or acceptance of any rules there can be no common sense can there?

Imo you are right. I came to the same conclusion. But what is this worth if the other one is expecting you to "move into the traffic"? If you insist on him to do it you both may crash. And he may will blame you having caused the accident. Thai logic isn't always compatible to western logic

It doesn't matter at all what you and I think is common sense and western logic. Every Thai "knows" that when you are riding against traffic you should ride to the far right of the road and that all traffic coming against you will give you room and stay to your left (their right). It actually makes sense. When I'm riding my bike or motorbike against traffic (it happens at some point almost every day), i wouldn't want vehicles coming at me on both sides.

Until you learn the "rules of the road" and commonly accepted practices, you're putting yourself and others in danger.

[StreetCowboy]

After thinking about it a bit I have come to the conclusion that because the person on the wrong side of the road, in other words the one that is bearing down on you can clearly see what is coming up behind you, then therefore you should stick to the nearside left as much as you can and let him be the one to chose when it is safe to either pull out into the oncoming traffic lane or stop!

But as it has been pointed out by Village ferang where there is no logic or acceptance of any rules there can be no common sense can there?

Imo you are right. I came to the same conclusion. But what is this worth if the other one is expecting you to "move into the traffic"? If you insist on him to do it you both may crash. And he may will blame you having caused the accident. Thai logic isn't always compatible to western logic

It doesn't matter at all what you and I think is common sense and western logic. Every Thai "knows" that when you are riding against traffic you should ride to the far right of the road and that all traffic coming against you will give you room and stay to your left (their right). It actually makes sense. When I'm riding my bike or motorbike against traffic (it happens at some point almost every day), i wouldn't want vehicles coming at me on both sides.

Until you learn the "rules of the road" and commonly accepted practices, you're putting yourself and others in danger.

What about for a pedestrian on the left hand verge facing a cyclist or scooter travelling on the wrong side of the road? In that instance I would (as the pedestrian) keep to the extreme left and let the scooter / cyclist find his way around

SC

[n210mp]

After thinking about it a bit I have come to the conclusion that because the person on the wrong side of the road, in other words the one that is bearing down on you can clearly see what is coming up behind you, then therefore you should stick to the nearside left as much as you can and let him be the one to chose when it is safe to either pull out into the oncoming traffic lane or stop!

But as it has been pointed out by Village ferang where there is no logic or acceptance of any rules there can be no common sense can there?

Imo you are right. I came to the same conclusion. But what is this worth if the other one is expecting you to "move into the traffic"? If you insist on him to do it you both may crash. And he may will blame you having caused the accident. Thai logic isn't always compatible to western logic

It doesn't matter at all what you and I think is common sense and western logic. Every Thai "knows" that when you are riding against traffic you should ride to the far right of the road and that all traffic coming against you will give you room and stay to your left (their right). It actually makes sense. When I'm riding my bike or motorbike against traffic (it happens at some point almost every day), i wouldn't want vehicles coming at me on both sides.

Until you learn the "rules of the road" and commonly accepted practices, you're putting yourself and others in danger.

What about for a pedestrian on the left hand verge facing a cyclist or scooter travelling on the wrong side of the road? In that instance I would (as the pedestrian) keep to the extreme left and let the scooter / cyclist find his way around

SC

​Sorry owd pal but you are talking pure bullshit!

There are no rules in Pattaya, official or otherwise.

There are loads of "drivers"(Sic) from Issan in Pattaya without any licences or indeed training who regularly cut up just about anyone unlucky enough to get into their path including those on the wrong side of the road.

For your information I have driven over here for the last 25 years albeit intermittently and also in some of the worlds most (from a driving point of view) dangerous Countries I.E. Egypt, Pakistan India.

Whilst Thailand as a whole is not a bad place to drive or cycle, Pattaya is another story and anyone with any experience in driving throughout the world will agree that Pattaya has a different set of rules!

Pattaya Rule number 1 is that there are no rules!

And Whilst I am having a bit of a rant your signature does you no favours. If you like a bit of raparte, debate or just a good old argument then OK but dont patronise me or others with a signature that makes it look as though you are doing me a favour in replaying to a post!

Your signature is rude and uncalled for I suggest that you take this hint and remove it because make you look like an arrogant know it all!

Final rant, In other words if you dont like the picture then turn the TV off!

[StreetCowboy]

...

It doesn't matter at all what you and I think is common sense and western logic. Every Thai "knows" that when you are riding against traffic you should ride to the far right of the road and that all traffic coming against you will give you room and stay to your left (their right). It actually makes sense. When I'm riding my bike or motorbike against traffic (it happens at some point almost every day), i wouldn't want vehicles coming at me on both sides.

Until you learn the "rules of the road" and commonly accepted practices, you're putting yourself and others in danger.

What about for a pedestrian on the left hand verge facing a cyclist or scooter travelling on the wrong side of the road? In that instance I would (as the pedestrian) keep to the extreme left and let the scooter / cyclist find his way around

SC

​Sorry owd pal but you are talking pure bullshit!

There are no rules in Pattaya, official or otherwise.

There are loads of "drivers"(Sic) from Issan in Pattaya without any licences or indeed training who regularly cut up just about anyone unlucky enough to get into their path including those on the wrong side of the road.

For your information I have driven over here for the last 25 years albeit intermittently and also in some of the worlds most (from a driving point of view) dangerous Countries I.E. Egypt, Pakistan India.

Whilst Thailand as a whole is not a bad place to drive or cycle, Pattaya is another story and anyone with any experience in driving throughout the world will agree that Pattaya has a different set of rules!

Pattaya Rule number 1 is that there are no rules!

And Whilst I am having a bit of a rant your signature does you no favours. If you like a bit of raparte, debate or just a good old argument then OK but dont patronise me or others with a signature that makes it look as though you are doing me a favour in replaying to a post!

Your signature is rude and uncalled for I suggest that you take this hint and remove it because make you look like an arrogant know it all!

Final rant, In other words if you dont like the picture then turn the TV off!

He's got a point. Anyone that quotes the wrong post is leaving themselves open to ridicule.

I don't think that his generic signature is meant as a personal dig at anyone, but obviously, you're entitled to randomly fly off the handle at anyone. It would scarcely be random if you were not.

Personally, I thought he made a very fair point, and one which I felt was consistent with my experience, and the events of the original incident that led to the original post.

Following the advice on this thread, I now call out "behind you" when the motorcycles merge and are at risk of not keeping my pace, though I doubt they can hear me; the bicycles I give a wide berth and get past them as quick as I can, though I've not had a bicycle merging in front of me when I have felt at risk if I move further into my lane, as i did in the other incident in the Original Post.

I'd been thinking about buying some lights for the early mornings and evenings here; today I was driving along one of my usual routes, and there was a bloke with a yellow jersey and flashing LED lights, clearly visible. But when he was in front of another car's headlights, he disappeared entirely; so again, I would remind people riding in poor light to do their best to keep up with the traffic, so that cars don't come upon you suddenly...

SC

Repartee, by the way.

[n210mp]

"Repartee, by the way"

Lanky spokken ear!

If you spake "lanky" then it spells as it sounds I.E. Ra as in the French manner a similar way of pronouncing the ah sound but then again what does a lanky know about anything. a full stop there not a question mark!

Next you will be telling me in the same manner that that Luke is the same pronunciation as Book or Duke is the same as cook!

I could have said that we having the Craik in the Irish but then again if I was being true to my Lanky origins I would just be having the Crack!

PS just as a matter of interest where do you actually reside because coincidentally or not , I cycle in a yellow jersey and have LED lights on my bike which of course I use and need at 5.30 am around Mabrachan

Edited January 12, 2014 by n210mp

[StreetCowboy]

Tha'll neid teu teyk a leuk in t'dictionery, soon.

I used to have a nice short ride up to the Greyhound Roundabout on the East Lancs Road; a forty minute round trip it was, if I recall correctly.

My other route was down to Thelwall, and then on to Glazebrooke through, I think, the old lard refinery, and then home via Culcheth.

SC

[n210mp]

Well I was on the border of t'Yorkshire and t'Lanky boundary where I used to cycle though t'Delph, t'Uppermill, t'Greenfield and t'Holmefirth and it was all uphill like it is on here occasionally!

I notice that You didn't answer the question of where you are residing because it then came back into my olfactory system and even my minds eye the different smells around those areas especially the Lard refinery.

There were as I remember 7 different smells in an area of about ten square miles in the Glazebrooke, Culcheth area

Edited January 12, 2014 by n210mp

[StreetCowboy]

They're all closed now, and were when I was there, I think.

"... so I took her to Widnes"; I'll only leave you with the punchline, as the rest of the joke was a bit risque.

I'm counting down the days till the Summer Rugby starts again, in February.

I used to live safely nestled in the gusset of the M6 and the M62

SC

[n210mp]

"I used to live safely nestled in the gusset of the M6 and the M62" SC

Sounds as though it was a bit better area than the crotch I used to live in nestled between, Manchester, Rochdale and Ashton under Lyne.

Having said that I must admit to having a sense of satisfaction when as an "Hoppin youth "Guin overt' Huddersfelt Moor" up t' Standage road, out of Delph on my Harry Hall racer and reaching the top of quite a good climb!

[bobfish]

Translation please.

Sounds like we're back to sausages again.

[wantan]

After thinking about it a bit I have come to the conclusion that because the person on the wrong side of the road, in other words the one that is bearing down on you can clearly see what is coming up behind you, then therefore you should stick to the nearside left as much as you can and let him be the one to chose when it is safe to either pull out into the oncoming traffic lane or stop!

But as it has been pointed out by Village ferang where there is no logic or acceptance of any rules there can be no common sense can there?

Imo you are right. I came to the same conclusion. But what is this worth if the other one is expecting you to "move into the traffic"? If you insist on him to do it you both may crash. And he may will blame you having caused the accident. Thai logic isn't always compatible to western logic

It doesn't matter at all what you and I think is common sense and western logic. Every Thai "knows" that when you are riding against traffic you should ride to the far right of the road and that all traffic coming against you will give you room and stay to your left (their right). It actually makes sense. When I'm riding my bike or motorbike against traffic (it happens at some point almost every day), i wouldn't want vehicles coming at me on both sides.

Until you learn the "rules of the road" and commonly accepted practices, you're putting yourself and others in danger.

So you agree with me. Fine

[n210mp]

Whatever owd pal.

[mikejphuket]

Whatever owd pal.

Why don't you all stop wasting time on such a trivial matter and go for a bike ride?

PS I'm taking my own advice.

[OxfordWill]

I have got in the (weird) habit of actually shouting "beep beep".

I know, but I can't stop. It seems to work a little.