Police battle protesters at Thai-Japanese Stadium

[gerry1011]

Suthep is desperate for bloodshed. All he wants is for Yingluck to open fire and murder Thai civilians as he himself has done. His next step will then be to get his murder charges dropped in exchange for Yingluck's charges dropped.

You are right to say that he is anxiously waiting for bloodshed.

What he probably did not expect is that it is his own side that killed first (3 red shirts and one policeman).

But he will certainly say that these were isolated incidents that were directly provoked by Yingluck herself

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[penwithcris]

You keep missing the point. Nobody is expecting anyone to 'roll over'. What you should be calling for is all those eligible to vote to turn out in force at election time and elect a different party to govern the country

So called 'red shirts' rebelled formerly because a government was foisted upon them without recourse to the ballot box

I have little doubt in my own mind that should,say, the Democratic party be returned to government in free and fair elections, the wishes of the majority would be respected by PheuThai and other parties

This is in stark contrast to the current situation where the minority wish to try to dictate to the majority by undemocratic and, often, illegal means

[tilac2]

Quite right. The last 2 or 3 general elections in Thailand have been judged fair by international observers or the Thai Electoral Commission or by such bodies as the Washington-based National Democratic Institute.

The problem in Thailand is not that the electoral system is faulty or crooked, it is that the main opposition party don’t want to take part. So while in other countries when a party fails repeatedly at the ballot box its members have the sense to change their policies and try to 'grab the middle ground', that doesn't happen here. The Democrats could easily have gone more populist after they lost the last election, but, no, instead, now when an election is offered they withdraw in pretended outrage, and then let their associates try to sabotage the democratic process.

A shame, as they could have had a real chance to get elected in sufficient strength to change some of the ill-advised policies that the Yingluk government has brought in.

The incredible thing is that Suthep and others have convinced many of their fellow citizens to follow them in abandoning democracy (not to mention some farangs - to judge from this forum). And as the OP said, it's truly amazing to see students protesting AGAINST democracy. I don't believe I have EVER seen that before!

Haha. Riot police battling students protesting AGAINST free and fair elections. Amazing Thailand indeed! The laughing stock of the world.

Free and fair elections?????
How long have you been in Thailand?

Each successive election has been more free and more fair. This has coincided with the development of populist policies by the incumbent government and it's predecessors that the old-school, perpetually losing Democrats and their ilk prefer to call 'vote buying'. They have a completely different perception on how the lower classes should be 'used' and their place in society.

Very well put. The only way to develop a democracy is via the ballot box. That is how societies develop. Let us not forget that whilst the US has by and large free elections, it was not always so. Until the 1960s Black voters in the South were effectively disenfranchised. A couple of decades earlier the horrendously corrupt NY Democratic machine rigged presidential elections. Harry Truman only became vice president because of corrupt practices at the convention, and so on.

Democracies develop and mob overthrow is not part of that process.

[chooka]

Suthep is desperate for bloodshed. All he wants is for Yingluck to open fire and murder Thai civilians as he himself has done. His next step will then be to get his murder charges dropped in exchange for Yingluck's charges dropped.

He wants it so bad, it is like an itch he can't stop scratching and that is why he is now shooting and killing innocent police just doing their jobs. He knows he is on murder charges and he wants to justify them by getting Yingluk to drop into his gutter and do the same. Problem is she is far more intelligent than a pig in a shit trough.

".. he is now shooting and killing innocent police just doing their jobs.."

Really? Suthep wasn't even there at all.

Commander who is inciting................

Bush and Obama where never leading the troops up front in afganistan either.

Edited December 26, 2013 by chooka

[Amavel]

Suthep is a White Persian Cat and a monocle away from being a character in a James Bond movie.

[Ulic]

WOW, they were lucky Suthep going by history would have used live ammunition. Excellent restraint in a difficult situation.

[Smokemachine]

Uniform group at the rooftop assassinating the protesters.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202962855730053&set=a.1565708860327.74165.1163552024&type=1&theater

[Nickymaster]

Suthep is desperate for bloodshed. All he wants is for Yingluck to open fire and murder Thai civilians as he himself has done. His next step will then be to get his murder charges dropped in exchange for Yingluck's charges dropped.

He wants it so bad, it is like an itch he can't stop scratching and that is why he is now shooting and killing innocent police just doing their jobs. He knows he is on murder charges and he wants to justify them by getting Yingluk to drop into his gutter and do the same. Problem is she is far more intelligent than a pig in a shit trough.

You and jackrice really have no clue what is going on politically in Thailand. You just like to say nasty things in order to get some easy likes. I have seen this all over TV forum.

The ONLY thing Suthep had to do to have the murder charges dropped would have been NOTHING, no protest, NOTHING. His charges would have been dropped with Thaksin's whitewash bill. Suthep doesn't want them dropped. He wants to fight them.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Nickymaster]

WOW, they were lucky Suthep going by history would have used live ammunition. Excellent restraint in a difficult situation.

Meanwhile back in the multi color world....

Suthep was on stage earlier telling that a few dozen protestors are in hospital. He mentioned that 3 protestors and a Japanese reporter are in critical condition. Three had shot wounds (including to the head) and the japanese reporter had wounds on his head from an object. He also showed images of police attacking an innocent woman driving a car and beating up a few protestors who were already detained.

He also mentioned the sadly killed officer.

[Smokemachine]

Bangkok's Finest.

"To Serve and Protect"

The protestors feel they can do as they wish. If the police is blocking the way and order you to turn around and you don't and instead you reply with a cocky attitude, that is not smart. They are the law and to challenge them is unwise.

That is a protestor's truck, driven by a woman (same tactic used before) loaded with provisions and other artifacts for the protestors. Why they disobey the police? Because so far they have gotten away with it. Thais are not used to having to face the consequences of their unruly behaviour.

The conclusion in this video is police ask the lady driver to turn around and she disobey with a COCKY ATTITUDE and so the policemen start to whack her pickup. So can we say the policemen's actions are justifiable?

And you mentioned "They are the law"

WHO are the law??

Sorry i'm just wondering...

[ahall1000]

Just a thought - Does anyone find it strange that the EC continued to hold the registrations in the Thai Japanese stadium, where the 'demonstrators' 'demonstrating' techniques suddenly kicked up a notch, then they suggest that the elections be postponed due to violence. Surely they could have been held elsewhere - or would Suthep claim another illegitimate move? Something smells....

[Yunla]

In the UK these type of demonstrations would get shut down after one day, you get your day in the streets and then you go home. If you don't go home, the police move in. And they don't much care if you get knocked over when they push you homeward. A newspaper salesman died in the UK while walking home from his stall, past a protest site that was being dispersed by the police. He was knocked to the floor and he died from the injuries.

I pointed this out in 2010 during the three month red seige too. Most democratic countries would not stand for more than a day of street protest. The reason being that political solutions come from parliamentary negotiation, not from street action. Obviously Thailand has problems with accepting that, but it is still a far better route than teetering on civil war. From this perspective, neither the protesters nor the police are at fault here, it is the politicians at fault for not settling their differences at state level. I am particularly accusing Suthep of this, as Yingluck offered a dialogue recently, to hear Suthep's demands and find a solution. Round about the same time as she called the early elections, she asked Suthep to enter a discussion. They could have talked through the problems. He said no, and more besides, about her whole family being banished from the nation. Suthep is in the wrong here, for refusing to talk constructively. The blood is entirely on his hands, it is simple logic.

I would also add that protesters stop being protesters and become insurgents, when they no longer make demands for dialogue or elections, but seek to topple a political system entirely. This would be around the time the initial peaceful massprotests ended around the start of December, at which point I stopped supporting them.

[englishoak]

Bangkok's Finest.

"To Serve and Protect"

Considering this wasnt a protest but an attempt to forcefully storm into the stadium with vehicles and other means she should have high tailed it out of there immediately Clearly told to move, plenty of opportunity and room to do so didnt so got the car smashed up...nothing really to complain about... som nom naaa.

Didn't get dragged out of the car and beaten to a pulp like some poor taxi driver earlier by another mob blockading near don muang either.

Edited December 26, 2013 by englishoak

[Maha Sarakham Marty]

Interesting to note the colour tag being attributed to the demonstrators when if one looks carefully there is indeed a match of colours in the crowds. So how can anyone actually apportion blame to any one particular political hued movement?

It's the preferred inaccurately expedient shortcut description by lazy and unknowing people.

[paz]

Is there no end to this Yingluck government's brutality. First setting their thugs on spotty bookworms trying to leave their campus, and now this. What a disgrace!

The disgrage is the fascit violent bullies, supported in theory by old foreign fascists, hiding behing a computer. At least they don't.

[paz]

In the UK these type of demonstrations would get shut down after one day, you get your day in the streets and then you go home. ,,,

Politics in the UK or most other countries is a little bit different than in Thailand.

The police is not militarily powerful enough to stop the protests and has been told not to even try.

If they did, then the Army would step in and seize power immediately. While the "caretaker government" is still trying to avoid this scenario. In my opinion, to no purpose, because the outcome is written already.

The average foreign armchair commentator has read deceiving in Yungluck's tears, I think she was crying because she know the end of Democracy is near, once again in Thailand.

[Maha Sarakham Marty]

Uniform group at the rooftop assassinating the protesters.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202962855730053&set=a.1565708860327.74165.1163552024&type=1&theater

Very interesting.

Wonder if they also the ones who shot and killed the cop.

[paz]

Remember when people got ahold of Mussolini & his family?

Beside that people got rid of Mussolini and his mistress only, while his family was never harmed.

Yingluck did not kept dictorship, did not ally with nazis, and did not brought the country to war and catastrophe.

[diehard60]

Is there no end to this Yingluck government's brutality. First setting their thugs on spotty bookworms trying to leave their campus, and now this. What a disgrace!

Yingluck's brutality??????? These mobs and hoodlems are stopping people from registring. You are the fool.

[jackrich]

Suthep is desperate for bloodshed. All he wants is for Yingluck to open fire and murder Thai civilians as he himself has done. His next step will then be to get his murder charges dropped in exchange for Yingluck's charges dropped.

He wants it so bad, it is like an itch he can't stop scratching and that is why he is now shooting and killing innocent police just doing their jobs. He knows he is on murder charges and he wants to justify them by getting Yingluk to drop into his gutter and do the same. Problem is she is far more intelligent than a pig in a shit trough.

You and jackrice really have no clue what is going on politically in Thailand. You just like to say nasty things in order to get some easy likes. I have seen this all over TV forum.

The ONLY thing Suthep had to do to have the murder charges dropped would have been NOTHING, no protest, NOTHING. His charges would have been dropped with Thaksin's whitewash bill. Suthep doesn't want them dropped. He wants to fight them.

He wants to fight the charges? I see him screaming all day long about Thaksin running away from the law and corruption charges, but he himself has missed at least two court dates on MURDER charges and there is an arrest warrant out for him that he's running away from. He knows the moment he leaves the safety of his protest crowd, he will be arrested.

If he wants to fight the charges, why doesn't he show up in court?

[diehard60]

But what happens when the red shirts start protesting Sutheps good people council and they shoot rubber bullets?

Red shirts would retaliate with their grenade launchers and arsonist squad.

I think you should get your facts straight. Who were the snipers????? Police amd army ordered by SUTHEP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[jackrich]

Suthep wants to force Yingluck to open fire on protesters like he has done in 2010.

She won't do it and it's driving him mad.

[Maha Sarakham Marty]

But what happens when the red shirts start protesting Sutheps good people council and they shoot rubber bullets?

Red shirts would retaliate with their grenade launchers and arsonist squad.

I think you should get your facts straight. Who were the snipers????? Police amd army ordered by SUTHEP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Are you unaware that red shirts used grenade launchers and committed arson?

[erobando]

In the UK these type of demonstrations would get shut down after one day, you get your day in the streets and then you go home. If you don't go home, the police move in. And they don't much care if you get knocked over when they push you homeward. A newspaper salesman died in the UK while walking home from his stall, past a protest site that was being dispersed by the police. He was knocked to the floor and he died from the injuries.

I pointed this out in 2010 during the three month red seige too. Most democratic countries would not stand for more than a day of street protest. The reason being that political solutions come from parliamentary negotiation, not from street action. Obviously Thailand has problems with accepting that, but it is still a far better route than teetering on civil war. From this perspective, neither the protesters nor the police are at fault here, it is the politicians at fault for not settling their differences at state level. I am particularly accusing Suthep of this, as Yingluck offered a dialogue recently, to hear Suthep's demands and find a solution. Round about the same time as she called the early elections, she asked Suthep to enter a discussion. They could have talked through the problems. He said no, and more besides, about her whole family being banished from the nation. Suthep is in the wrong here, for refusing to talk constructively. The blood is entirely on his hands, it is simple logic.

I would also add that protesters stop being protesters and become insurgents, when they no longer make demands for dialogue or elections, but seek to topple a political system entirely. This would be around the time the initial peaceful massprotests ended around the start of December, at which point I stopped supporting them.

This is Thailand. Like most developing countries, elected politicians make up only a portion of the people with actual political power. The 2 major parties, different factions of the military, different factions of the military all have roles to play and, in Thailand's case, all of them have a vested interest in protests continuing (whether yellow or red). Some people on both sides of the protesters (not the leaders, though) have legitimate goals/plans/ideas that could make the country better. But most of the people on both sides are just cheering their side. It's people politics instead of policy politics and the protesters (yellow and red) are just pawns for different elite groups. Not ideal, not really democratic, but at least it's relatively contained and better than full civil war. I think this will eventually change but the change will be long, gradual process.

,

[zydeco]

In the UK these type of demonstrations would get shut down after one day, you get your day in the streets and then you go home. If you don't go home, the police move in. And they don't much care if you get knocked over when they push you homeward. A newspaper salesman died in the UK while walking home from his stall, past a protest site that was being dispersed by the police. He was knocked to the floor and he died from the injuries.

I pointed this out in 2010 during the three month red seige too. Most democratic countries would not stand for more than a day of street protest. The reason being that political solutions come from parliamentary negotiation, not from street action. Obviously Thailand has problems with accepting that, but it is still a far better route than teetering on civil war. From this perspective, neither the protesters nor the police are at fault here, it is the politicians at fault for not settling their differences at state level. I am particularly accusing Suthep of this, as Yingluck offered a dialogue recently, to hear Suthep's demands and find a solution. Round about the same time as she called the early elections, she asked Suthep to enter a discussion. They could have talked through the problems. He said no, and more besides, about her whole family being banished from the nation. Suthep is in the wrong here, for refusing to talk constructively. The blood is entirely on his hands, it is simple logic.

I would also add that protesters stop being protesters and become insurgents, when they no longer make demands for dialogue or elections, but seek to topple a political system entirely. This would be around the time the initial peaceful massprotests ended around the start of December, at which point I stopped supporting them.

This is Thailand. Like most developing countries, elected politicians make up only a portion of the people with actual political power. The 2 major parties, different factions of the military, different factions of the military all have roles to play and, in Thailand's case, all of them have a vested interest in protests continuing (whether yellow or red). Some people on both sides of the protesters (not the leaders, though) have legitimate goals/plans/ideas that could make the country better. But most of the people on both sides are just cheering their side. It's people politics instead of policy politics and the protesters (yellow and red) are just pawns for different elite groups. Not ideal, not really democratic, but at least it's relatively contained and better than full civil war. I think this will eventually change but the change will be long, gradual process.

,

And this is the RTP, not a professionally trained, qualified police force. Ordinarily on these forums, I read post after post alleging that the RTP routinely engages in extortion, blackmail, and even murder for hire. Now, some of those same people making such allegations are urging them on and hoping they will begin to carry out extrajudicial punishment as they did in the above video with the woman in the pickup truck.

[Ricardo]

But what happens when the red shirts start protesting Sutheps good people council and they shoot rubber bullets?

Red shirts would retaliate with their grenade launchers and arsonist squad.

I think you should get your facts straight. Who were the snipers????? Police amd army ordered by SUTHEP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You might recall, that DPM (as he then was) Chalerm claimed to know who the black-shirt snipers were, former-police from the North-East ?

But unfortunately he's never named them, and the various investigations have failed to find a single one of them, so how can you know that they were "ordered by SUTHEP", rather than paid by some criminal ill-wisher overseas, which is another alternative possibility ?

Opinions, even strongly-held opinions, aren't facts.

[thailiketoo]

But what happens when the red shirts start protesting Sutheps good people council and they shoot rubber bullets?

Red shirts would retaliate with their grenade launchers and arsonist squad.

I think you should get your facts straight. Who were the snipers????? Police amd army ordered by SUTHEP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Are you unaware that red shirts used grenade launchers and committed arson?

Are the red shirts back? New topic for this thread eh?

[sunped]

As I have lived and worked in this country and maried to thai wife and also have a political & social science background (Sweden) I would like to make a comment on the current situation. Thailand was ruled by the Royal family and some 20 noble families (controling the army and the money). This influence is still strong to this day. What Taksin did was to try to break this power and turn towards a republic. This angered a lot of Thais who loves their King and are unwilling to grasp the idea of a real democratic society. The owner of my favorite pub: " When we Thai get angry we stand together and fight" What has she (Yinluck) done that has been so bad, I asked? " She has borrowed a lot of money to build a fast railway to the north. We are a country of farmers. The farmers don´t have money to go on a fast train..." But then... since You people from Bangkok are not woting for Her and the farmers dont like what she´s doing (according to You) she willshurely lose the uppcoming election, I asked??

This kind of logic which we westerners use does - obviously - not apply here in Thailand.

Right now I fear a lot for the future of Thailand. Thus far - as some already has commented - the red shirts has been quiet and Yinluck has really NOT acted on the provocations from Suthep (who at the moment did not appear at court to HIS involvent in ordering live bullits against the red shirts). Who will gain on a civil war? I think it is the powers who does not want Democracy to prevail.

[NanLaew]

As I have lived and worked in this country and maried to thai wife and also have a political & social science background (Sweden) I would like to make a comment on the current situation. Thailand was ruled by the Royal family and some 20 noble families (controling the army and the money). This influence is still strong to this day. What Taksin did was to try to break this power and turn towards a republic. This angered a lot of Thais who loves their King and are unwilling to grasp the idea of a real democratic society. The owner of my favorite pub: " When we Thai get angry we stand together and fight" What has she (Yinluck) done that has been so bad, I asked? " She has borrowed a lot of money to build a fast railway to the north. We are a country of farmers. The farmers don´t have money to go on a fast train..." But then... since You people from Bangkok are not woting for Her and the farmers dont like what she´s doing (according to You) she willshurely lose the uppcoming election, I asked??

This kind of logic which we westerners use does - obviously - not apply here in Thailand.

Right now I fear a lot for the future of Thailand. Thus far - as some already has commented - the red shirts has been quiet and Yinluck has really NOT acted on the provocations from Suthep (who at the moment did not appear at court to HIS involvent in ordering live bullits against the red shirts). Who will gain on a civil war? I think it is the powers who does not want Democracy to prevail.

Pretty much sums it up. The majority of the Thai population probably think that feudal patronage IS democracy... or rather USED to think it was. They have also recently discovered the true meaning of several words and terminology that have been common enough in other countries and languages. These include republic, despot, megalomania, hegemony, cult of personality, etc., etc..

Regarding this 'country of farmers', I drove back yesterday evening from Isaan and it was pretty solid 2, 3 and even 4 lanes of traffic headed northeast from south of Chachoengsao, over the mountains in Kabinburi and all the way up the Mitrpharp to Udon. That's a whole lotta 'farmers' going home for the New Year! Private cars, pickups and SUV's heavily outnumbered the buses so these 'farmers' are all pretty well off too. I assume that the roads to the north were a similar gridlock.

This overwhelming self-importance of the Bangkok 'elite' needs a bit of stirring up. Just imagine if all these 'farmers' were so pissed off with the incumbent government that they refused to come back from their New Year break. I guess Bangkok would crumble within 72 hours without the 'great unwashed' that keep the city wheels turning.

[pete66]

a mob of ultra royalists trying to revert back to feudalism, against 27 parties and the great majority of population. What demons rule them? How brainwashed can they be?

do have political views, even fascist one, but don't try to force them on others

how "great" are the majority when their votes can be bought for 500B a pop.

I don't support the yellow shirts, but I do support democracy, and let's be honest, Thailand doesn't have one, and probably never did.

Solution - no idea.

This vote buying excuse has been discredited. Yes, there are some cases of vote buying ON BOTH SIDES, but not enough to result in the wide margin PTP had in the last election. Even the Democrat Khun Korn said that vote buying doesn't effect election results.

Of course vote buying affects results. They wouldn't do it otherwise would they!!

When Thaksin first came to power, his lovely "Thai Rak Thai" (how ironic that sounds now) organization held a "party" in our village the night before the election. Free food, alchohol, and general arrangements for how to ship people to the polling stations the next day. That's the sad day I learned what "democracy" really meant in Thailand. Democrazy.

Don't tell me it doesn't work. You think Thaksin, a very shrewd businessman, would waste money if it didn't work? Its how he came to power and the country has been going downhill ever since.