Why I like Cambo better than Thailand

[slipperylobster]

PP was a wild town when I was there back in 2003, but a whole lot wilder when I first visited in 1996. Back then tourists were advised/almost prevented from taking anything but a flight to Siem Reap. The most risky travel permitted was a fast boat on Lake Tonle Sap.

I frequented a bar called the Cat House, up near 1A Street, or was is A1 Street? My apartment builidng was either # 1A on A1 Street, or A1 on 1A Street....can't remember. There was a sign on the Cat House door notifying patrons that they must leave firearms with the security guard!!

Sharkey's Bar was also a favorite, sitting on the balcony overlooking the street, and the beer was cheap. I loved the place.

Sounds like Subic in the mid 70's. But even in the Philippines, there are more than a few NPA shooting up the town, as close as 5 years ago in Barrio Barretto. 5 policemen (one to retire) gunned down across the street from Mango's. My buddy dove in a ditch, but that were only after the police. Not to mention the shaking down of a group of sailors on liberty hiking Mount Pinatubo.

Well, thanks for the info on the relatively safe streets of those Cambodian towns and villages. Glad they have been improving.

More exciting in the P.I. for those folks looking for that.

[slipperylobster]

PP was a wild town when I was there back in 2003, but a whole lot wilder when I first visited in 1996. Back then tourists were advised/almost prevented from taking anything but a flight to Siem Reap. The most risky travel permitted was a fast boat on Lake Tonle Sap.

I frequented a bar called the Cat House, up near 1A Street, or was is A1 Street? My apartment builidng was either # 1A on A1 Street, or A1 on 1A Street....can't remember. There was a sign on the Cat House door notifying patrons that they must leave firearms with the security guard!!

Sharkey's Bar was also a favorite, sitting on the balcony overlooking the street, and the beer was cheap. I loved the place.

Sounds like Subic in the mid 70's. But even in the Philippines, there are more than a few NPA shooting up the town, as close as 5 years ago in Barrio Barretto. 5 policemen (one to retire) gunned down across the street from Mango's. My buddy dove in a ditch, but that were only after the police. Not to mention the shaking down of a group of sailors on liberty hiking Mount Pinatubo.

Well, thanks for the info on the relatively safe streets of those Cambodian towns and villages. Glad they have been improving.

More exciting in the P.I. for those folks looking for that.

Oh ok..I better clear up the date on that too....my memory is shot, eh? Too much San Miguel/Leo/Ankor?

http://www.raosubic.com/newsletterdocs/2004/newslettersoct-december2004.html

NPA RAID: A team of about 5 or 6 NPA raided a police check point the night of 9 December 2004 here in Barrio Barretto. Four police officers and a security guard were killed. No foreigners were harmed or threatened so as far as I can see there are no threats against Americans or other foreingners.

have to improve my accuracy for them anal retentive guys.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

PP was a wild town when I was there back in 2003, but a whole lot wilder when I first visited in 1996. Back then tourists were advised/almost prevented from taking anything but a flight to Siem Reap. The most risky travel permitted was a fast boat on Lake Tonle Sap.

I frequented a bar called the Cat House, up near 1A Street, or was is A1 Street? My apartment builidng was either # 1A on A1 Street, or A1 on 1A Street....can't remember. There was a sign on the Cat House door notifying patrons that they must leave firearms with the security guard!!

Sharkey's Bar was also a favorite, sitting on the balcony overlooking the street, and the beer was cheap. I loved the place.

Maybe it has moved since but it's now at 118 and 51, all by itself, not far from Central Market.

[Sheryl]

Oh ok..I better clear up the date on that too....my memory is shot, eh? Too much San Miguel/Leo/Ankor?

http://www.raosubic.com/newsletterdocs/2004/newslettersoct-december2004.html

NPA RAID: A team of about 5 or 6 NPA raided a police check point the night of 9 December 2004 here in Barrio Barretto. Four police officers and a security guard were killed. No foreigners were harmed or threatened so as far as I can see there are no threats against Americans or other foreingners.

have to improve my accuracy for them anal retentive guys.

The issue I think was not to be nitpicking re date but that your reports and descriptions are very much out of date.

Cambodia has changed enormously in the past 10 years.

[phuketrichard]

biggest changes that i have seen since i first visited in 1988 was the time between the 2008 elections and the recent ones in 2013

People are no longer content to follow, their so called elected leaders, blindlessly anymore

Same thing now in Thailand

[slipperylobster]

Oh ok..I better clear up the date on that too....my memory is shot, eh? Too much San Miguel/Leo/Ankor?

http://www.raosubic.com/newsletterdocs/2004/newslettersoct-december2004.html

NPA RAID: A team of about 5 or 6 NPA raided a police check point the night of 9 December 2004 here in Barrio Barretto. Four police officers and a security guard were killed. No foreigners were harmed or threatened so as far as I can see there are no threats against Americans or other foreingners.

have to improve my accuracy for them anal retentive guys.

The issue I think was not to be nitpicking re date but that your reports and descriptions are very much out of date.

Cambodia has changed enormously in the past 10 years.

my issue is that dates do not mean a darn thing when people have issues

[slipperylobster]

Welcome to the third world

[slipperylobster]

biggest changes that i have seen since i first visited in 1988 was the time between the 2008 elections and the recent ones in 2013

People are no longer content to follow, their so called elected leaders, blindlessly anymore

Same thing now in Thailand

OMG

did somebody really believe that.

Another threshold has just been crossed in the history of mankind

I need to celebrate

you are actuall toooooooo easy.

[BugJackBaron]

you will find if ur living there ( i did for 10 months)

• it is not cheaper to live
• the selection of places to live is very limited compared to Thailand
• the local/street food is not nearly as good,
• electric, internet more expensive
• not as varid choices in the supermarkets for western food
• Medical care far below Thailand
• Traffic in PP on main roads is same as Bangkok
• the politcial sitiuation is very bad right now in PP since last elections an even getting worse now with the Garment worker strike

Yes visas are easier if ur under 50 and are not working legally

yes, drinking and smoking cigs is cheaper

You are so kind to even take time to explain him anything...

Maybe you forgot what these forums were actually designed for? Imagine someone actually getting helpful advice from the more experienced vs. condescending sarcasm.

Like i said, i lived there and travel there frequently by car and i have seen most of the country as i have a Cambodian gf living with me here.

We own land there as well.

Outside of the main 3 cities, PP, SR an SHV is it very behind the times,

• you will not find any supermarkets selling western goods
• No 7/11's or any type convnvience stores ( something u find everywhere in Thailand)
• The selection of accomodtions is very poor compared to Thailand. I would image there are more houses for rent for Farangs/Barangs in Phuket than all of Cambodia ( not talking about the 2nd,3rd floor walk up chinese style shop houses with the bedroom without a window, where most people end up living in Phnom Pehn)
• Condo's are being built in PP and SR but for the most part are over $800 for a decent 2 bedroom one
• Roads a few years ago were getting better to very good BUT now most are really bad ( the road from SR-PP was great 4 years ago now its shit)
• Personally i find it dificult to eat in a restaurnat and have people approach me for money
• Much more begging and poverty in ur face than Thailand
• Politcial situation grows worse an worse each day
• Country run by a mad man with no regard for the locals
• Poor selection of schools for western kids outside PP ( Northridge is the best but will cost you more than the best school in Bangkok)
• Very poor medical care and almost non existent outside the 3 main cites
• Poor transport throught the whole country ( cambodia u can only fly 3 places only, no trains )

Debunk the more engish bookstores Bullshit

• good temp accomodations for $100-200/month in the 3 main cites but outside that u will be liivng Khmer style
• Visa easy, $285 or so for a 1 year muti entry
• Drinking, smoking cigs (both of which i do not do) cheaper
• Bars cheaper
• OK,nothing to write home about, western food $4-7/meal
• easy to work but the salaries are small compared to Thailand
• Used Cars a bit cheaper, gas more
• More hummers. lexus, 4wd BMW's, Audi's than Thailand!!
• Plenty of cheap hotels ( under $10) but dont expect Thailand
• Great for photography!!!
• Some great islands to visit
• Cheap cable ( they steal True vison form Thailand)
• Electronics a it more than Thailand but not the selection
• you might think more english spoken, but its very very limtied ( try an get anywhere in PP by moto even though he says he speakes english without you knowing where your going)

I like Cambodia to visit but not for living Cambodia

End of the day, yes u can live cheap in Cambodia BUT u could live cheaper in a nicer place with access to more western goods nearby in THailand

Its a personal choice

I have heard from at least two English teachers who worked there that teaching TOEFL pays about the same as Bangkok but the money goes further

Not sure about school salaries as this sounded like private work.

[slipperylobster]

After my Catholic school boy buddy got shot up, i went to see his dad. That was Sin ville quite a while back . cant remember dates...but these guys keep coming back.

did they ever go to jail.

That was a military operation, but how about this one...it was civilian.

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/shadow-vine-mountain

Well it all sounded innocent...and thank god they have all converted and now are angelic.

[slipperylobster]

When I left Koh Kong, I was with an old college professor and his wife. we literally ran across the border back to Thailand. I almost hugged the Thai Immigration officials. I won't go into detail about the wild night i had with some aussie cowboy in a bar in the boonies but let me tell ya, there was alot of parlez vous going on. and most of it was in vietnamese.

[Sheryl]

Like i said, i lived there and travel there frequently by car and i have seen most of the country as i have a Cambodian gf living with me here.

We own land there as well.

Outside of the main 3 cities, PP, SR an SHV is it very behind the times,

• you will not find any supermarkets selling western goods...

There are a number of places selling excellent Western grocery items!! In fact Phnom Penh is my preferred source, I buy western food items there to bring back to Thailand. Vastly better selection not to mention things like really good homemade mozzarella and ricotta....and things you simply cannot find in Thailand.

To name just a few places:

Thai Huot

Bayon

place on 240 I forget the name of, but great selection of cheeses, green awning

The deli attached to Le Duo restaurant (ricotta and mozzarella to die for, plus other Italian delights)...

there's also a great shop for Indian foods and spices.

[phuketrichard]

Sheryl ;

do you have a reading problem?? Here i made it bigger for u

Cambodia

Outside of the main 3 cities, PP, SR an SHV is very behind the times,

• you will not find any supermarkets selling western goods..
  .

There are no stores like Villa, tops or foodland in Cambodia an to say the selection of goods is better in Cambodia is way off

( unless it has really changed since Sept) :-)

homemade mozzarella and ricotta

easily obtained at more than one place here in Phuket plus plenty of Italians importing and selling out of their shops

[khwaibah]

Sheryl ;

do you have a reading problem?? Here i made it bigger for u

Cambodia

Outside of the main 3 cities, PP, SR an SHV is very behind the times,

• you will not find any supermarkets selling western goods..

  .

There are no stores like Villa, tops or foodland in Cambodia an to say the selection of goods is better in Cambodia is way off

( unless it has really changed since Sept) :-)

homemade mozzarella and ricotta

easily obtained at more than one place here in Phuket plus plenty of Italians importing and selling out of their shops

Oh yes there is.. https://www.facebook.com/LuckySupermarketCambodia

[phuketrichard]

I have been in 2 luckys, (not the new one, but the one at the Sorya mall in PP and Siem Rep), villa an foodland have more western products

Please, once again read what i wrote

Outside of the main 3 cities, PP, SR an SHV ( Cambodia) is very behind the times,

Plus for many of the goods they are more expensive than Thailand as much of their goods come from Thailand.

I would rate Lucky as comparable to Tops supermarket but much better than Tesco or Big C ( except for the meat products)

[BugJackBaron]

I have been in 2 luckys, (not the new one, but the one at the Sorya mall in PP and Siem Rep), villa an foodland have more western products

Please, once again read what i wrote

Outside of the main 3 cities, PP, SR an SHV ( Cambodia) is very behind the times,

Plus for many of the goods they are more expensive than Thailand as much of their goods come from Thailand.

I would rate Lucky as comparable to Tops supermarket but much better than Tesco or Big C ( except for the meat products)

I tried Lucky in Pnom Pen and thought that for the money the pastries were far tastier than in Tops or Big C. I think it was a beef one.

[mike2011]

No need to argue about a baguette and some sorts of pastries. BUT - what about some nice sour dough or whole grain bread? I think Thailand wins by a good margin thanks to its German bakers. Big C Extra is also pretty good. Perhaps not all locations but most.

My wanderings in SHV ended without much success in SHV. PP and SR were better and I found some of the cheaper places surprisingly good in SR as they had this 50% off past 6 PM (or was it 7?).

I have no doubt that some really good places are around but at a price. This means they sell treats rather than daily staple. I know of good bakeries in Isaan (e.g. Nonkhai), in the North anyhow and the urban centers are well covered. Cambodia lacks this artisanal producers. Interestingly, I found it surprisingly hard to come by a decent Croissant. Bottom line: While Cambodian has this phantastic French tradition is has been weakened while in Thailand the strong tourist and expat presence sustains numerous small shops and also some nice pastry/bread departments in the major supermarkets.

I think the same holds true for locally produced sausages, hams, and within limits for cheese.

[Sheryl]

There are fabulous whole grain breads to be had in PP, ditto meats and cheeses, but you need to know where to go.

[nontabury]

Just returned from Aranyapratet on the border with Cambodia, French sticks at 10bht as opposed to 32 bht in Thailand, also better quality. So why is bread so expensive here in Thailand?.

[BugJackBaron]

No need to argue about a baguette and some sorts of pastries. BUT - what about some nice sour dough or whole grain bread? I think Thailand wins by a good margin thanks to its German bakers. Big C Extra is also pretty good. Perhaps not all locations but most.

My wanderings in SHV ended without much success in SHV. PP and SR were better and I found some of the cheaper places surprisingly good in SR as they had this 50% off past 6 PM (or was it 7?).

I have no doubt that some really good places are around but at a price. This means they sell treats rather than daily staple. I know of good bakeries in Isaan (e.g. Nonkhai), in the North anyhow and the urban centers are well covered. Cambodia lacks this artisanal producers. Interestingly, I found it surprisingly hard to come by a decent Croissant. Bottom line: While Cambodian has this phantastic French tradition is has been weakened while in Thailand the strong tourist and expat presence sustains numerous small shops and also some nice pastry/bread departments in the major supermarkets.

I think the same holds true for locally produced sausages, hams, and within limits for cheese.

I remember ther Blue Pumpkin offering some good croissants. Except for in Chiang Mai and maybe Pucket , I have never found quality bakery stuff here though there is some OK stuff (like at foodland). But not great. Yes, you pay more than staples but that is going to be true anywhere in rice-based Asia.It is still less than you would pay for a croissant at, say., the Bangklok bakery in Nana.

Edited January 5, 2014 by BugJackBaron

[Sheryl]

All in all, western food - both to buy and in restaurants -- is better in Camb than in Thailand IMO. Much better. There are other things wherein Thailand has the edge but Western-food wise Cambodia wins in my book by a large margin, I always stock up on groceries and indulge in eating out when there as one of the big pluses.

Not much to be had out in the sticks of course, but that's the case in Thailand as well.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Just going to throw out a response based on "feeling".

When I go into Thai Huot (PP) and I see things that I didn't know I wanted (and I buy), I get the feeling the owners know a thing of two about western tastes and needs. They also put the country of origin on the some product/food labels. I cannot buy decent bath soap in Thailand, but in PP they have French origin natural soaps of vegetable glycerin. In Thailand, there is NOTHING I can buy that isn't full of SLS and talc and alcohols and whatnot that makes my skin feel like a lab. I bought Polish origin Gilette Sensor blades in PP for half the price found in Thailand. (To say nothing of the fact you frequently can't buy replacement blades for weeks and months in a Thai big box store.)

When I go into Bayon, I find most of the things I want, which isn't a long list. Mind you, one does have to shop Thai Huot, Bayon and Pencil to get everything. In Thai stores, the women's toiletries aisles will be full of brand names, but as for the rest of the food, cleaning and toiletry aisles, there's a few western imports but mostly there's some Thai brand copies (more like mimicry).

I just get the feeling the Thai store managers really haven't got a clue. They're too busy scratching each others' backs.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[Sheryl]

Not to mention the best laundry detergent (Persil), likewise unavailable in Thailand. Nothing like it here.

[mike2011]

There are fabulous whole grain breads to be had in PP, ditto meats and cheeses, but you need to know where to go.

Great, i got you almost half of the way. Now let's cross the finish line: WHERE?....

Baron: Next time in Sakon try the bakery at the old bus station for some apple struddle. Make sure you're there before cos I vaccum the place if i m in town. Nonkhai ask the German baker. You will love it - his bread and other treats. In CM is a good German baker that even does Stollen during Christmas time. I dont want to hijack the thread with a long list of good places (especially as Sheryl still owes us the PP info on HER bakeries). Maybe the mods could add something like a bread sticky in the Thailand food section and we post our info there. This way the info would be easily available for all the hungry.

So SheryL where is the bread?

Edited January 6, 2014 by mike2011

[seasia]

All in all, western food - both to buy and in restaurants -- is better in Camb than in Thailand IMO. Much better. There are other things wherein Thailand has the edge but Western-food wise Cambodia wins in my book by a large margin, I always stock up on groceries and indulge in eating out when there as one of the big pluses.

Not much to be had out in the sticks of course, but that's the case in Thailand as well.

Interesting thanks

Based only on one visit to PP and eating western food in restaurants I got a similar impression.

Service had an edge over Thailand also IMO.

More than happy with the western food there and one Italian restaurant I went to beat almost all that I`ve tried in Thailand so far.

[slipperylobster]

Ok..I give up..

Sounds like Cambodia is Paradise. I lose.

Hey, wait....did you read the news today?

Have fun in PP.

"A former cadre of the murderous Khmer Rouge who defected to Vietnam before becoming Asia’s youngest leader 28 years ago, Mr Hun Sen has shown in the past he is capable of instigating violence, as in a 1997 putsch that overthrew his then senior coalition partner Prince Norodom Ranariddh.A former cadre of the murderous Khmer Rouge who defected to Vietnam before becoming Asia’s youngest leader 28 years ago, Mr Hun Sen has shown in the past he is capable of instigating violence, as in a 1997 putsch that overthrew his then senior coalition partner Prince Norodom Ranariddh."

not my words...this is news from the following link.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/cambodias-hun-sen-cracks-down-on-dissent-amid-challenge-to-his-rule-20140105-hv7kj.html

am i keeping up or not?

[phuketrichard]

best laundry detergent (Persil), my god who cares

some people just don't want to hear the truth or else their shopping habits are wired different

Yes Cambodia is paradise and Cheap as well, Kep, Kampot, Battambang, ( 2nd largest city) Kampong Cham, Koh Kong, all have great shopping an excellent dinning opportunities!

Like i have said, once ur out of Phnom Penh, Siem Rep, SHV, forget anything western

BUT go just about to any city in Thailand and find a Big C, Tesco and every small town has a 7/11 or similar convenience store

[Sheryl]

Yes, but the Big Cs and Tescos upcountry (tourist areas excluded) carry very, very little in the way of western foods.

[Sheryl]

There are fabulous whole grain breads to be had in PP, ditto meats and cheeses, but you need to know where to go.

Great, i got you almost half of the way. Now let's cross the finish line: WHERE?....

Baron: Next time in Sakon try the bakery at the old bus station for some apple struddle. Make sure you're there before cos I vaccum the place if i m in town. Nonkhai ask the German baker. You will love it - his bread and other treats. In CM is a good German baker that even does Stollen during Christmas time. I dont want to hijack the thread with a long list of good places (especially as Sheryl still owes us the PP info on HER bakeries). Maybe the mods could add something like a bread sticky in the Thailand food section and we post our info there. This way the info would be easily available for all the hungry.

So SheryL where is the bread?

The Shop street 240 (also a branch in Tuol Kork)

Blue Pumpkin bakery

Delishop in the Intercontinental Hotel

Fresco (good multigrain bread)

Sisters All Day Breakfast Shop (they will do specialty breads to order) - near Russian Market

Madeleines Cafe-Restaurant-Bakery st 51 near ISPP

Comma a la Maison used to sell breads, haven't beenthere is ages so I don't know if they still do

Java I know has muffins & the like, not sure if bread

French bakery next to Savannah Mall

for Bagels only, Vego's

Deli in Le Duo restaurant for Italian bread (also great source for cheeses)

[my friend I]

best laundry detergent (Persil), my god who cares

some people just don't want to hear the truth or else their shopping habits are wired different

Yes Cambodia is paradise and Cheap as well, Kep, Kampot, Battambang, ( 2nd largest city) Kampong Cham, Koh Kong, all have great shopping an excellent dinning opportunities!

Like i have said, once ur out of Phnom Penh, Siem Rep, SHV, forget anything western

BUT go just about to any city in Thailand and find a Big C, Tesco and every small town has a 7/11 or similar convenience store

Pizza Co/Swensens opened in Battambang today on road one