Democrat leader Abhisit urges govt action to end political crisis

[kirk0233]

What exactly do the Democrats stand for? What is their platform? Why should they represent the nation? Abhisit's recent behavior suggests he does not take the democratic process seriously and doesn't care what the nation wants. Apparently all he wants is to be PM again. He might get lucky and have it handed to him again by the military; he isn't popular enough to win it by election.

So what are the reforms that Suthep's masters want; Yingluck to step down from an elected position? How democratic is that? Those causing chaos don't seem to care. PTP is corrupt, but does democracy have to end because of this? All this fuss about Thaksins family, but no one speaks to the basic needs of the population: better education, clean tap water, better sanitation system, flood control, road safety, etc. Why arent people taking to the streets to demand these things? It is much easier to distract the crowd with a villain then to do real work. If Thaksin didn't exist he would have to be invented so that the incompetent politicians would have a boogeyman to blame for their failure to accomplish anything worthwhile. The military needs a Thaksin crisis in order to intervene in government and to justify its size and cost and its worth as a stabilizing force. After all, the only thing wrong with Thailand is Thaksin and his family, right?

Abhisits and Sutheps analysis is far too simplistic and self serving. To solve the corruption problem they should be championing ideas such as education, democracy and responsibility and participation in government. Instead they cast blame, incite violence and offer nothing but big brother and overthrow of the popular vote while not meeting any of the needs of the people. PTP needs to listen to those who elected it and meet the voters needs while removing Thaksins needs from its agenda.

[lovetotravel]

yingluck is not saying she refuses to make reforms... she is saying she refuses to give power to suthep to make these reforms (the irony of suthep leading an "anti-corruption" movement is clear even to her simple mind)

reforms could / should help but why should anyone believe suthep's "people's council" can be trusted to deliver this any more than the elected government?... the opposition is not demanding reform, they are demanding POWER (with a promise to make the reforms they forgot to make last time they had power until lots of people died on the streets of bangkok fighting for a return to democracy)

Yingluck has said she will organise reform after she is re-elected. Will that be anything like the discussions about the Amnesty Bill? She has shown that she can't be trusted.

I agree. But do you think Suthep can be trusted ? He has also quite a lot of corruption history with the palm oil and phuket as exemples

Everybody knows Suthep is corrupt. Just like a lot of them. He did say he wants out of politics when this is over. Of course Thaksin said the same thing. And look where we are now.

[JosteinSetsaas]

UK known to be the most multicultural democracy in the world, - but at Whick level did Mr. Abhisit undertake his studies?

[thaijett]

Democrat urges end to democracy is what it should have read.

That is SO correct !!!

1st off they should re-name the Party, cos what they want is NOT democracy.

Perhaps they could call it the Tantrum Party, or The Spoilt Brat Party, only because The Throw Your Toys Out of the Pram, When You Don't Get Your Own Way Party is way too long !!

Accurate, but too long !!

[Thait Spot]

"If that should happen, me and Suthep will be somewhere safe like the Alps, doing some late-season snowboarding."

...you mean like any season sand surfing in Dubai. Abhisit has had the balls to stay here and front up to all the trumped up charges being laid his way versus a peoples court convicted criminal hiding out of, and non constitutionally running the country from Dubai...let me see for democracy... jeez I have to have morals... tough choice...fronting up here or Dubai sand surfing the rest of one's life. There's 'have balls' and there's 'lack off balls'. The 'have balls' needs to cut from the Democrats and take over Suthep's people, not Sutheps' ideologies. The 'lack of balls' deserve to be left where they are for a while...dusted and frying on the hot Dubai sands.

oh come on, balls ?? these guys have the ultimate sugar daddy and carte blanche to get away with what no one else should be able to. You seriously dont believe for one second they would do as they have without the nod first do you ?

Nothing here goes on at this level without some serious backing both financially and with serious political and positional clout. Whilst i have no love for the Dubai guy i dont for one moment credit this lot with any balls ... they would'nt have the cahonas without the nod, pure and simple. Take off your rose specs for a second, they are protected .

You forget what country your in or something ?

Who is this mythical sugar daddy?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Don't be naive

Pray tell.

You are the one being naive

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Costas2008]

brit1984, on 28 Dec 2013 - 09:15, said:

lovetotravel, on 28 Dec 2013 - 07:11, said:

Let's not forget what got us here. A government who ignored the law of the land, is engaged in massive corruption, and is anything but democratic. Thus, the huge numbers of protesters. Many of whom are not yellow shirts, are not democrats and are not amart. Just tired of the current governments lies. Hard to argue with them.

This could have all been avoided by killing the amnesty bill instead of trying to ram it through. Or at least accept Abhisit's proposal to exclude himself, Suthep and Thaksin from it. That request was ignored.

amnesty bill is long gone - the government has called an election - why are people still dying?...

May be if you read the first paragraph of lovetravel's post properly......you will get your answer!

[HerbalEd]

Let's not forget what got us here. A government who ignored the law of the land, is engaged in massive corruption, and is anything but democratic. Thus, the huge numbers of protesters. Many of whom are not yellow shirts, are not democrats and are not amart. Just tired of the current governments lies. Hard to argue with them.

This could have all been avoided by killing the amnesty bill instead of trying to ram it through. Or at least accept Abhisit's proposal to exclude himself, Suthep and Thaksin from it. That request was ignored.

I agree with you .... but that does not justify the so-called Democrats efforts to eliminate elections, and instead "appoint" a "people's council."

The reason they don't want elections is because Taksin's people will most likely win big-time just like they have for the past twenty years. Instead of their anti-democracy stance, the Democrats should actually practice democracy and spend their time and money on educating and winning over the Taksin-brainwashed factory workers and farmers. When you're out of power, that's what you do in a true democracy.

Edited December 28, 2013 by HerbalEd

[brit1984]

So strange that Abhisit is now so much in favor of what he opposed when he was prime minister

and he seems to expect to be handed back power so he can do what he didn't last time he was in power

i have a lot of respect for abhisit (i think he and korn have the most intelligence / potential on either side)

but he needs to stop allowing the power hungry (and blood thirsty) puppeteers controlling his vocal chords

[englishoak]

So strange that Abhisit is now so much in favor of what he opposed when he was prime minister

and he seems to expect to be handed back power so he can do what he didn't last time he was in power

i have a lot of respect for abhisit (i think he and korn have the most intelligence / potential on either side)

but he needs to stop allowing the power hungry (and blood thirsty) puppeteers controlling his vocal chords

I don't think he has any choice in the matter, if he wants to be the poster boy he has to play ball.

[hellodolly]

Let's not forget what got us here. A government who ignored the law of the land, is engaged in massive corruption, and is anything but democratic. Thus, the huge numbers of protesters. Many of whom are not yellow shirts, are not democrats and are not amart. Just tired of the current governments lies. Hard to argue with them.

This could have all been avoided by killing the amnesty bill instead of trying to ram it through. Or at least accept Abhisit's proposal to exclude himself, Suthep and Thaksin from it. That request was ignored.

Thank you for your factual post.

There for a while I thought I was going to have to read through a pile of uninformed posts or posts by people who have some thing to gain by this corruption led government.

Here is a link for those of you who like links.

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

[mca]

I always wondered my Mark even bothers with Thai politics. He would be better off being head of some major company.

I fully agree. With his complete lack of qualifications and experience it'd be following the time honoured Thai tradition of jobs for the boys.

[hellodolly]

Wasn't it his group that actually started this "crisis"?

Yes it was.

They refused to sell the country to the Shinawatra's.

Do you have a problem with that.

[brit1984]

brit1984, on 28 Dec 2013 - 09:15, said:

lovetotravel, on 28 Dec 2013 - 07:11, said:

Let's not forget what got us here. A government who ignored the law of the land, is engaged in massive corruption, and is anything but democratic. Thus, the huge numbers of protesters. Many of whom are not yellow shirts, are not democrats and are not amart. Just tired of the current governments lies. Hard to argue with them.

This could have all been avoided by killing the amnesty bill instead of trying to ram it through. Or at least accept Abhisit's proposal to exclude himself, Suthep and Thaksin from it. That request was ignored.

amnesty bill is long gone - the government has called an election - why are people still dying?...

May be if you read the first paragraph of lovetravel's post properly......you will get your answer!

you mean the paragraph where he says we should allow a corrupt (and explicitly anti-democratic) cheat to take power from the democratically elected government (albeit corrupt and imperfect in many ways) just because a small minority of the population (unlike most people) are unable to see the ridiculous irony / hypocrisy, and unable to remember the destruction / death that followed the last time they derailed democracy?...

if the flaws of the government are so obvious (and i would agree they are) and the electorate so cheap (another claim the opposition make to discredit the democratic process) then surely it would be easy to defeat them democratically (the required swing really isn't that big)... of course, it wouldn't be easy but that is the only way (combined with modernization of their own party policies / rhetoric to be non-divisive and inclusive) that they can take (and hold) power in a way conducive to political stability (and peace) for thailand

[Siripon]

Let's not forget what got us here. A government who ignored the law of the land, is engaged in massive corruption, and is anything but democratic. Thus, the huge numbers of protesters. Many of whom are not yellow shirts, are not democrats and are not amart. Just tired of the current governments lies. Hard to argue with them.

This could have all been avoided by killing the amnesty bill instead of trying to ram it through. Or at least accept Abhisit's proposal to exclude himself, Suthep and Thaksin from it. That request was ignored.

I agree with you .... but that does not justify the so-called Democrats efforts to eliminate elections, and instead "appoint" a "people's council."

The reason they don't want elections is because Taksin's people will most likely win big-time just like they have for the past twenty years. Instead of their anti-democracy stance, the Democrats should actually practice democracy and spend their time and money on educating and winning over the Taksin-brainwashed factory workers and farmers. When you're out of power, that's what you do in a true democracy.

You can blame Suthep for the Democrats opting out of this snap election!

I don't think anybody expected Suthep's 'campaign' to snowball as fast as it did, what was it Apisit said," he's gone beyond the goalposts now!''

(amnesty bill opposition).

So there's half ( maybe a lot more) of the Democrat supporters boycotting the election as implored by Suthep.

If the party ran they would be hopelessly split, leading to rancour, animosity, perhaps to a rift that cannot be healed.

So better to stay out and remain united.

I believe it's time for Dr Surin to step up as Democrat leader, Mark is hated in Issan, but the party feel they can't abandon him at this point in time what with the Rachaprasong cases coming up. He's still young, he will have another chance.

[brit1984]

I always wondered my Mark even bothers with Thai politics. He would be better off being head of some major company.

I fully agree. With his complete lack of qualifications and experience it'd be following the time honoured Thai tradition of jobs for the boys.

given that he read ppe at st johns and has leadership experience from being prime-minister of a country with a population of ~70 million people, i think he would make a good ceo or chairman for a lot of private companies

[whybother]

So strange that Abhisit is now so much in favor of what he opposed when he was prime minister

and he seems to expect to be handed back power so he can do what he didn't last time he was in power

i have a lot of respect for abhisit (i think he and korn have the most intelligence / potential on either side)

but he needs to stop allowing the power hungry (and blood thirsty) puppeteers controlling his vocal chords

I don't think he has any choice in the matter, if he wants to be the poster boy he has to play ball.

When has there been any indication that he wants to be in power of any "interim government"?

[hellodolly]

Let's not forget what got us here. A government who ignored the law of the land, is engaged in massive corruption, and is anything but democratic. Thus, the huge numbers of protesters. Many of whom are not yellow shirts, are not democrats and are not amart. Just tired of the current governments lies. Hard to argue with them.

This could have all been avoided by killing the amnesty bill instead of trying to ram it through. Or at least accept Abhisit's proposal to exclude himself, Suthep and Thaksin from it. That request was ignored.

Stick to your hobby of traveling.

If the majority voted them in to enact an amnesty law, so be it. If you want to put that to test, high noon is on 2nd of February.

What's the alternative, Chairman Suthep?

How far from reality are you going to go. The majority did not vote them in and they were not voted in to white wash Thaksin. This is a fact that has been known for over two years. Were you away or some place where news does not enter. or in a coma?

They were voted in to lead the government in bringing a better life to the Thai people and to work for unification.

Not sure where you are getting your information but if you want reality run as fast as you can from your source. tjhey have no knowledge of what is happening and are probably getting all their information on the walking street in Pattaya or some other bar area.

As for the alternative a more honest Thailand.

Why do you have a problem with that?

To help you to a more honest information post I refer you to

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

No thanks needed just helping such an honest person as yourself who has been led down the garden path by a good looking face is thanks enough.

[newcomer71]

yingluck (looks aside) isn't very good but using force against her (and the democratically elected government she represents) will not bring peace... thailand has been down that path before and this will end the same way... thailand needs a new way but neither side are offering this so the mess will continue

The way out at the moment appears to be for Yingluck to step down. PTP will still be in power. The red shirts will still have their party. But the main thing causing problems in Thailand for the last 8 years will have been removed.

You not really listening what Suthep is blatantly repeating almost every evening right?

Government overthrown and put his guys in a People Council.

Yingluck is his excuse for get the power. He don't give a dam_n about people on the streets. Just use them to raise consensus and rise his voice more.

He never said: if Shin family will out of the game, this government can stay, No. He said this government is fully "puppeted" and not legit must leave place to his Council.

[whybother]

yingluck (looks aside) isn't very good but using force against her (and the democratically elected government she represents) will not bring peace... thailand has been down that path before and this will end the same way... thailand needs a new way but neither side are offering this so the mess will continue

The way out at the moment appears to be for Yingluck to step down. PTP will still be in power. The red shirts will still have their party. But the main thing causing problems in Thailand for the last 8 years will have been removed.

You not really listening what Suthep is blatantly repeating almost every evening right?

Government overthrown and put his guys in a People Council.

Yingluck is his excuse for get the power. He don't give a dam_n about people on the streets. Just use them to raise consensus and rise his voice more.

He never said: if Shin family will out of the game, this government can stay, No. He said this government is fully "puppeted" and not legit must leave place to his Council.

Reading isn't your strong point is it?

[hellodolly]

So strange that Abhisit is now so much in favor of what he opposed when he was prime minister

and he seems to expect to be handed back power so he can do what he didn't last time he was in power

i have a lot of respect for abhisit (i think he and korn have the most intelligence / potential on either side)

but he needs to stop allowing the power hungry (and blood thirsty) puppeteers controlling his vocal chords

I don't think he has any choice in the matter, if he wants to be the poster boy he has to play ball.

When has there been any indication that he wants to be in power of any "interim government"?

How soon people forget if they ever even knew to begin with.

Today Abhist is free to do as he wishes. He is no longer a premier being propped up by Thaksin trained corruption specialists who could pull the pin out from him any time they wanted to.

as whybother says

"When has there been any indication that he wants to be in power of any "interim government"?"

[newcomer71]

yingluck (looks aside) isn't very good but using force against her (and the democratically elected government she represents) will not bring peace... thailand has been down that path before and this will end the same way... thailand needs a new way but neither side are offering this so the mess will continue

The way out at the moment appears to be for Yingluck to step down. PTP will still be in power. The red shirts will still have their party. But the main thing causing problems in Thailand for the last 8 years will have been removed.

You not really listening what Suthep is blatantly repeating almost every evening right?

Government overthrown and put his guys in a People Council.

Yingluck is his excuse for get the power. He don't give a dam_n about people on the streets. Just use them to raise consensus and rise his voice more.

He never said: if Shin family will out of the game, this government can stay, No. He said this government is fully "puppeted" and not legit must leave place to his Council.

Reading isn't your strong point is it?

The way out at the moment appears to be for Yingluck to step down. PTP will still be in power. The red shirts will still have their party. But the main thing causing problems in Thailand for the last 8 years will have been removed.

What does it mean for you? Maybe I am not good at reading, right.

I will close the discussion here to refrain from more sarcastic answers from you...

[whybother]

The way out at the moment appears to be for Yingluck to step down. PTP will still be in power. The red shirts will still have their party. But the main thing causing problems in Thailand for the last 8 years will have been removed.

What does it mean for you? Maybe I am not good at reading, right.

I will close the discussion here to refrain from more sarcastic answers from you...

If Yingluck steps down, PTP will still be in power. How do you get to "Government overthrown and put his guys in a People Council."

[gerry1011]

After all he did to help Suthep bring chaos in the country again, ... Abhisit makes me want to vomit.

I am not sure what word could qualify him best. "Cockroach", as the Dems are commonly called is far too respectful.

People died because of his support for these irrational and criminal protests.

He should apologize to the Thai people for what he has done.

What a bunch of creeps these Dems.

[hellodolly]

Let's not forget what got us here. A government who ignored the law of the land, is engaged in massive corruption, and is anything but democratic. Thus, the huge numbers of protesters. Many of whom are not yellow shirts, are not democrats and are not amart. Just tired of the current governments lies. Hard to argue with them.

This could have all been avoided by killing the amnesty bill instead of trying to ram it through. Or at least accept Abhisit's proposal to exclude himself, Suthep and Thaksin from it. That request was ignored.

Stick to your hobby of traveling.

If the majority voted them in to enact an amnesty law, so be it. If you want to put that to test, high noon is on 2nd of February.

What's the alternative, Chairman Suthep?

Be nice. We have a coalition government here. Which means a majority did not vote for PTP.

Suthep is not an option for a vast majority of the protesters. But neither is the current government.

Actually it is coalition in name only, The PTP had enough seats to carry any thing they wish even if every other party voted 100% against them. The main reason they joined in with the PTP was to get a place at the trough.

It would have been interesting if Yingluck had held one party and Thaksin another to see where the vote would have gone then.

Many believed they were getting Yingluck for a leader and many believed they were getting Thaksin. I think but have no proof that the ones hoping to get Yingluck for a leaader were disapointed when they found out they were getting Thaksin. I believe that to be the reason for the PTP to loose two out of three by elections in Red Shirt strongholds and the third one to win by a smaller majority.

The Democrats might have won the election if the Shinawatra's had run two separate parties.

Just a thought.

[hellodolly]

After all he did to help Suthep bring chaos in the country again, ... Abhisit makes me want to vomit. I am not sure what word could qualify him best. "Cockroach", as the Dems are commonly called is far too respectful. People died because of his support for these irrational and criminal protests. He should apologize to the Thai people for what he has done. What a bunch of creeps these Dems.

I see where you have been a member since 2004.

Why all of a sudden so many posts defending the most corrupt government yet?

I refer you to this for a link.

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

[Misab]

Let's not forget what got us here. A government who ignored the law of the land, is engaged in massive corruption, and is anything but democratic. Thus, the huge numbers of protesters. Many of whom are not yellow shirts, are not democrats and are not amart. Just tired of the current governments lies. Hard to argue with them.

This could have all been avoided by killing the amnesty bill instead of trying to ram it through. Or at least accept Abhisit's proposal to exclude himself, Suthep and Thaksin from it. That request was ignored.

Stick to your hobby of traveling.

If the majority voted them in to enact an amnesty law, so be it. If you want to put that to test, high noon is on 2nd of February.

What's the alternative, Chairman Suthep?

And let’s not forget that Yingluck only wins the election because she and her party pay overprice for rice and give the farmers what they want. But who is paying the bill?

[newcomer71]

The way out at the moment appears to be for Yingluck to step down. PTP will still be in power. The red shirts will still have their party. But the main thing causing problems in Thailand for the last 8 years will have been removed.

What does it mean for you? Maybe I am not good at reading, right.

I will close the discussion here to refrain from more sarcastic answers from you...

If Yingluck steps down, PTP will still be in power. How do you get to "Government overthrown and put his guys in a People Council."

Ok I will try once more...

I never said that this is what YOU said, but what SUTHEP is saying. He needs that. Full stop.

So Yingluck step down, the moron will ask his council to take place. It's easy really.

YL step down, nothing will change. It's not like you said: "The way out at the moment appears to be for Yingluck to step down. PTP will still be in power. The red shirts will still have their party. But the main thing causing problems in Thailand for the last 8 years will have been removed."

If that would have been the case it would have been much more easy of course.

And with this I explained already everything I needed to.

[whybother]

Ok I will try once more...

I never said that this is what YOU said, but what SUTHEP is saying. He needs that. Full stop.

So Yingluck step down, the moron will ask his council to take place. It's easy really.

YL step down, nothing will change. It's not like you said: "The way out at the moment appears to be for Yingluck to step down. PTP will still be in power. The red shirts will still have their party. But the main thing causing problems in Thailand for the last 8 years will have been removed."

If that would have been the case it would have been much more easy of course.

And with this I explained already everything I needed to.

Yingluck said she "wants peace not power", but everything she has done belies that. It is that easy for her to step down, except that means she (and Thaksin) won't be in power. They can't handle that.

[newcomer71]

Ok I will try once more...

I never said that this is what YOU said, but what SUTHEP is saying. He needs that. Full stop.

So Yingluck step down, the moron will ask his council to take place. It's easy really.

YL step down, nothing will change. It's not like you said: "The way out at the moment appears to be for Yingluck to step down. PTP will still be in power. The red shirts will still have their party. But the main thing causing problems in Thailand for the last 8 years will have been removed."

If that would have been the case it would have been much more easy of course.

And with this I explained already everything I needed to.

Yingluck said she "wants peace not power", but everything she has done belies that. It is that easy for her to step down, except that means she (and Thaksin) won't be in power. They can't handle that.

Lol we made quite a mess to finally find out we agree on something. Thaksin family is greedy of money and power. I will add Suthep it is as well.

[citizen33]

Holding the majority of Thais hostage will certainly not bring things to a peaceful end.

An amazing speech from someone who is considered one of the smartest politicians in Thailand.

They must be so proud at Oxford.

I was a (fairly lowly) academic at Oxford during the time when Abhisit read PPE and then, after a gap year apparently spent with Boris Johnson, came back to complete a Masters in Economics. I never met him, but have the impression that he has become a controversial figure in the University. When he returned to St John's College to speak in 2009 there were demonstrations outside the College and some searching questions from the floor - mainly about LM and the coup. He ended his talk by saying that he believed the military had learned a 'hard lesson' and that in future it would be for Thai politicians to protect democracy. I wonder what kind of reception he would get now.

Edited December 28, 2013 by citizen33