Should Thailand tax junk food to help fight obesity?

[Jingthing]

OP, you understand nothing about LOS, you want to bring in farang tax mentality to control stuff...... Kids still ride around on bikes with keys given by parents, yet you want to fix eating habits by a tax. KIDS STILL DRIVE BIKES with no insurance, license, whatever and you want to tax the easy way about eating, yet the government cannot control stuff that has fines that near everyone ignores. Yeh, you tax the poor about farang food that they don't want anyhoooo and the well off can still pay.

Take a loooooooooooong look at what Thai folk eat, YOU will tax it all........... .

1. Thailand already taxes unhealthy stuff -- ciggies, liquor. Nothing new.

2. Other health and safety issues are separate. Agreed, serious.

3. Please stop telling falsehoods about what I've corrected for you multiple times regarding limitations to foreign food.

4. Personally, I have never suggested here taxing all foods, so again, please stop with the falsehoods.

If you don't share my opinions, fine, join the club, but is it really necessary to distort my POV so blatantly, so many times, even after multiple corrections?

Edited January 11, 2014 by Jingthing

[transam]

OP, you understand nothing about LOS, you want to bring in farang tax mentality to control stuff...... Kids still ride around on bikes with keys given by parents, yet you want to fix eating habits by a tax. KIDS STILL DRIVE BIKES with no insurance, license, whatever and you want to tax the easy way about eating, yet the government cannot control stuff that has fines that near everyone ignores. Yeh, you tax the poor about farang food that they don't want anyhoooo and the well off can still pay.

Take a loooooooooooong look at what Thai folk eat, YOU will tax it all........... .

1. Thailand already taxes unhealthy stuff -- ciggies, liquor. Nothing new.

2. Other health and safety issues are separate. Agreed, serious.

3. Please stop telling falsehoods about what I've corrected for you multiple times regarding limitations to foreign food.

4. Personally, I have never suggested here taxing all foods, so again, please stop with the falsehoods.

If you don't share my opinions, fine, join the club, but is it really necessary to distort my POV so blatantly, so many times, even after multiple corrections?

There are Noooooooo corrections, Thai/Lao food is laced with ''your'' crap ingredient's yet you aim at junk food.... .......MONEY is the reason for NOW obesity, nothing else.......

[Jingthing]

Suggest readers look at my posts for my actual opinions.

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[MrGaoMungGawn]

Suggest readers look at my posts for my actual opinions.

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Actually, now that you mention this,

I am truly not very certain I know what your true opinions might be about much.

It would be nice if you would here list 5 sentences:

1 - 5, in ascending or descending order --- These are my opinions about .... and then list the top 5 most important things you care about, and your single most important opinion about it.

I am sure there are many here would enjoy reading this list.

If you make one list, then i will follow with my list.

This should be very informative, and something good for everyone to follow suit with.

[Jingthing]

You may read the thread if you wish.

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[MrGaoMungGawn]

You may read the thread if you wish.

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You talkin to me?

[David48]

try analyzing the next 5 obeese people you see. I bet thais wont hit number 5 first.

So your assertion is the problem isn't serious enough in Thailand to consider any societal action, correct? I have provided links before refuting that,

Actually Jt ... you're very good at that. Making a statement pertaining it to be a fact ... when indeed, it's not.

In this thread all that you have produced are statistically pertaining to South-East Asia.

To regain credibility, please present the Thailand specific statistics you have used in this thread to support your claims.

I'm quite happy to be convinced, just that you haven't revealed yourself, statistically.

[transam]

try analyzing the next 5 obeese people you see. I bet thais wont hit number 5 first.

So your assertion is the problem isn't serious enough in Thailand to consider any societal action, correct? I have provided links before refuting that,

Actually Jt ... you're very good at that. Making a statement pertaining it to be a fact ... when indeed, it's not.

In this thread all that you have produced are statistically pertaining to South-East Asia.

To regain credibility, please present the Thailand specific statistics you have used in this thread to support your claims.

I'm quite happy to be convinced, just that you haven't revealed yourself, statistically.

Perhaps the OP hangs out in KFC on a daily basis and the population is there too.

[rgs2001uk]

I am a fat bastard and its Thailands fault for not taxing the crap I stuff down my face each day.

<deleted>, you couldnt make this stuff up, talk about abandonment of all personal responsibility and self restraint.

What next fat knacker yanks suing Obama for not taxing all the crap they eat.

Where are Oprah and Michelle when fat knackers r us need them?

[Thai at Heart]

OP, you understand nothing about LOS, you want to bring in farang tax mentality to control stuff...... Kids still ride around on bikes with keys given by parents, yet you want to fix eating habits by a tax. KIDS STILL DRIVE BIKES with no insurance, license, whatever and you want to tax the easy way about eating, yet the government cannot control stuff that has fines that near everyone ignores. Yeh, you tax the poor about farang food that they don't want anyhoooo and the well off can still pay.

Take a loooooooooooong look at what Thai folk eat, YOU will tax it all........... .

Well they could start by stopping the subsidy for sugar in the domestic market.

Essentially the thai government believes that refined sugar is worth encouraging in your daily diet of coke, bah new and mangoes and sticky rice.

Least they should do is let the price float. First thing that would happen is that the producers would take a spoonful out of the processed food to keep the prices the same.

Not a huge amount but if they took one spoon out of a coke can that would be 15% reduction. Is Thailand alone in putting sugar in noodles. I haven't seen it elsewhere in Asia

[Jingthing]

You may read the thread if you wish.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You talkin to me?

Yes to clarify, I'm denying your request that I write a detailed list of information that already exists on this thread. No the priorities don't exist yet, so I'll reply to that by stating a TOP one -- I'd say if nothing else was done make TRANSFATS illegal in all commercially packaged products and large chain restaurants. Because that stuff really is poison.

I will be happy to author an exhaustive detailed list of my "position paper" on combating obesity in Thailand the very moment that the Thai government grants me citizenship and begs me to run for an MP position! (BTW -- do ACTUAL Thai politicians do stuff like that? I'm doubtful.)

In other words, I'm not running for office (cannot also) and this ain't HARD TALK.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I am a fat bastard and its Thailands fault for not taxing the crap I stuff down my face each day.

<deleted>, you couldnt make this stuff up, talk about abandonment of all personal responsibility and self restraint.

What next fat knacker yanks suing Obama for not taxing all the crap they eat.

Where are Oprah and Michelle when fat knackers r us need them?

Thai policy is about Thai people. If they do take government action to combat obesity, I seriously doubt there will be or should be any concern at all about non-Thais in Thailand.

Personal action has a role, so does education, so does government action to make the food environment less encouraging of obesity.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Perhaps the OP hangs out in KFC on a daily basis and the population is there too.

Not me.

Anyone with the most BASIC google skills can find evidence of increasing obesity in Thailand.

I can also observe it with my eyes, as most all people who have been visiting/living in Thailand a long time can. But best to rely on objective statistics, absolutely.

A link previously posted ON THIS THREAD here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/692774-should-thailand-tax-junk-food-to-help-fight-obesity/page-10#entry7233833

I will add another quote from the article now:

Obesity is a huge problem in many countries around the world, and Thailand ranks in the top five Asia-Pacific nations in this regard ². In the period 2005-2007, obesity rates in Thailand increased from 10 million in 2005 to 17 million in 2007. Since then, and despite further research and some small-scale treatment programs, the incidence of obesity has only accelerated. Furthermore, these increases are now occuring across many demographic groups, and in both urban and rural areas.

http://www.burning-bison.com/obesity.htm

To add:

Abstract

The prevalence of obesity in Thailand has been doubled in the past two decades. Data from three consecutive National Health examination surveys (NHES) have shown a secular trend, as the prevalence of obesity with body mass index > or =25 kg m(-2) in adults increased from 13.0% in men and 23.2% in women in 1991 to 18.6% and 29.5% in 1997 and 22.4% and 34.3% in 2004 respectively. Obesity prevalence in children, using weight for height criteria, increased from 5.8% in 1997 to 7.9% in 2001 for the 2-5-year-olds and from 5.8% to 6.7% for the 6-12-year-olds. The data also show disproportionate increases of obesity in the rural area, which indicates the problem no longer restricts to the higher socioeconomic group.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19656310

Edited January 11, 2014 by Jingthing

[rgs2001uk]

I am a fat bastard and its Thailands fault for not taxing the crap I stuff down my face each day.

<deleted>, you couldnt make this stuff up, talk about abandonment of all personal responsibility and self restraint.

What next fat knacker yanks suing Obama for not taxing all the crap they eat.

Where are Oprah and Michelle when fat knackers r us need them?

Thai policy is about Thai people. If they do take government action to combat obesity, I seriously doubt there will be or should be any concern at all about non-Thais in Thailand.

Personal action has a role, so does education, so does government action to make the food environment less encouraging of obesity.

Its called personal choice, or, up to you, as they say here.

Dont see too many fat knackers working in the Issan rice fields, or Bkk building sites.

Is that because they exercise every day, or cant afford fat knacker comfort food?

I sure as heck dont want the gov't (of any country) telling me what I can and cannot eat (taxes by stealth or not).

Eat what you want, drink what you want, exercise or not up to you, not my problem.

Thankfully TIT and I aint paying taxes to support some gov't initiative.

See Sth Korea for gov't action, TIT its not about health, its about face.

Next time you are in Bkk take a wander into any mall at the weekend and see the locals stuffing their faces in Western junk food outlets, no face to be gained by eating guay tiaow in the Big C foodcourt.

[Jingthing]

Personal responsibility is good. No objections to that.

More difficult concept for CHILDREN though. They often become obese before they know what hit them, and then statistically they'll probably be that way for life.

Also about choices. Ever go shopping for bread in Thailand? Notice there is no ingredient list? How to choose the healthier bread? Seriously. How?

Personal responsibility to take a stab in the dark, more like.

Who has the power to make them label the bread and list how much sugar, how much transfats, etc.? Only the government, my friend, ONLY the government.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Jingthing

[zydeco]

The Western diet is not always healthy for Westerners. But it can be devastating for peoples with generations of adaptation to other types of diets.

Look at old photos of Amerinds. From slim and healthy, they now have the highest rates of obesity and diabetes in the US. Blacks and hispanics are close behind if not equal. The obesity rates for these groups is through the roof. Whites aren't doing all that great either. The future of America may be a dialysis clinic on every street block.

[Jingthing]

I see an interesting point in that.

Thailand aspires, I think, to be a RISING nation.

Right now, politics is holding it back, but it still has HUGE potential with its fortunate location close to China and India in the century of Asia.

But increasing obesity and its massive social and financial costs WEAKENS this rising nation.

Thai patriots should be on this like brown on brown rice!

[rgs2001uk]

Personal responsibility is good. No objections to that.

More difficult concept for CHILDREN though. They often become obese before they knew what hit them, and then statistically they'll probably be that way for life.

Also about choices. Ever go shopping for bread in Thailand? Notice there is no ingredient list? How to choose the healthier bread? Seriously. How?

Who has the power to make them label the bread and list how much sugar, how much transfats, etc.? Only the government, my friend, ONLY the government.

Ever go shopping for bread in Thailand?

Yes, its a thankless task, sweet crap, even the wholewheat is crap.

Solved that problem, the mrs makes her own.

Screw "the man" make your own choice.

Just FYI, I know my diet sucks and I eat crap most people would find revolting, examples include but not limited to, "full monty fry ups" at least twice a week, chip buttys and a particular favourite, chicken skin in batter deep fried with a nice dip, perfect beer food.

As a consequence of eating crap, I have to excercise the following day.

Health warning, the above shouldnt be consumed unless supervised by a responsible adult.

[Jingthing]

...

Just FYI, I know my diet sucks and I eat crap most people would find revolting, examples include but not limited to, "full monty fry ups" at least twice a week, chip buttys and a particular favourite, chicken skin in batter deep fried with a nice dip, perfect beer food.

...

OMG, the grease on that flew through the internet and now my manly boxers are soiled.

I think I need a shower now!

I'm happy that you're enjoying your food. Anyway ...

Edited January 11, 2014 by Jingthing

[mogandave]

Are you really saying gasoline is not taxed in Thailand? If so, you are misinformed.

I'm really saying that motor fuel is subsidised in Thailand.

"In Thailand, consumer subsidies exist for five energy products: LPG, natural gas for vehicles (NGV),

diesel, electricity and biofuel blends.

In the case of LPG, the government sets an ex-refinery price that is below the cost of production or

acquisition on the world market. It then pays the difference to the LPG refiner or importer. NGV retail

prices are also set below the cost of production. NGV is produced and distributed solely by PTT Public

company limited (the majority government-owned petroleum company) and the government does

not reimburse PTT for losses incurred by selling NGV below cost."

http://www.iisd.org/gsi/sites/default/files/ffs_thailand_czguide.pdf

Sorry, I thought you said gasoline was subsidized, my bad.

[MrGaoMungGawn]

The Western diet is not always healthy for Westerners. But it can be devastating for peoples with generations of adaptation to other types of diets.

Look at old photos of Amerinds. From slim and healthy, they now have the highest rates of obesity and diabetes in the US. Blacks and hispanics are close behind if not equal. The obesity rates for these groups is through the roof. Whites aren't doing all that great either. The future of America may be a dialysis clinic on every street block.

This is just more pure hogwash promulgated by racists who don't know much about science,

And who also want to get away with oppressing indigenous people, keeping them down on the farm,

And feeding them substandard cheap garbage full of fat, salt, cheap oils, and other swill.

If you take the Amerind, as you call him, and provide him with expensive education, and expensive western diet,

Then he will thrive, look beautiful and athletic,

Just like a blue blood from Harvard.

Racism is a terrible thing,

Which helps to justify a warped and unjust socioeconomic reality.

[Jingthing]

Whoa! Ain't this thread HOT enough without getting all racial about it?

[mogandave]

More progressive people do have a tendency to more open minded about potentially effective societal level solutions. More "conservative" people do have a tendency to be more resistant to change of any kind that threatens the STATUS QUO, and social action from governments even more so.

Progressive consider anyone that agree with them openminded, and attacks anyone that disagrees with them and considers them closeminded

Progressives do have a tendency promote all manner of idiotic nonsense without regard to the social or economic cost. To progressives, it's the thought that counts, not the results.

Progressive want to help poor fat Thais to be healthier, and anyone that questions any of their nonsensical ideas must be attacked and discredited as a greedy, mean-spirited, right-wing hater that cares nothing for anything or anyone but their money and themselves.

That about some it up?

You advocate dismantling entire industries and bankrupting countless companies and financial penalize millions of people with no idea at all what the outcome might be.

[Jingthing]

...

Progressive want to help poor fat Thais to be healthier, and anyone that questions any of their nonsensical ideas must be attacked and discredited as a greedy, mean-spirited, right-wing hater that cares nothing for anything or anyone but their money and themselves.

...

That's way more incendiary than I would put it (and I would not use the word hater in this context) and of course I don't think the regulatory ideas I've proposed are nonsensical. OTHERWISE, not too shabby.

You auditioning for a job in the Hillary Clinton campaign?

Suggest you consider cooling down. It's just talk here. Thais are going to the streets soon and the issue isn't a sugar tax!

Edited January 11, 2014 by Jingthing

[zydeco]

FYI, for anyone interested in addressing the issue of the Western diet on non-Western peoples. Here is info from the CDC:

Why do some racial and ethnic groups have higher rates of diabetes?

Diabetes can indeed run in families," meaning that heredity often makes someone more likely to develop diabetes. Researchers believe that certain genes affecting immune response can play a role in the development of type 1 diabetes, while genes affecting insulin function can contribute to the development of type 2 diabetes. While African Americans, Hispanic/Latino Americans, American Indians, Asian Americans, and Pacific Islander Americans have a slightly lower rate of type 1 diabetes, they are at a higher risk for type 2 diabetes than the rest of the population.

Many researchers think that some African Americans, Hispanic/Latino Americans, American Indians, Asian Americans, and Pacific Islander Americans inherited a "thrifty gene" which helped their ancestors store food energy better during times when food was plentiful, to survive during times when food was scarce. Now that feast or famine situations rarely occur for most people in the United States, the gene which was once helpful may now put these groups at a higher risk for type 2 diabetes.

In addition, poverty, lack of access to health care, cultural attitudes and behaviors are barriers to preventive and diabetes management care for some minority Americans.

http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/consumer/groups.htm

[Jingthing]

I don't doubt there are ethnic differences in this regard. Like my ethnicity has a very high rate of lactose intolerance and IBS in females. It's not "racist" for scientists to study these kinds of differences. It's helpful.

[MrGaoMungGawn]

...

Progressive want to help poor fat Thais to be healthier, and anyone that questions any of their nonsensical ideas must be attacked and discredited as a greedy, mean-spirited, right-wing hater that cares nothing for anything or anyone but their money and themselves.

...

That's way more incendiary than I would put it (and I would not use the word hater in this context) and of course I don't think the regulatory ideas I've proposed are nonsensical. OTHERWISE, not too shabby.

You auditioning for a job in the Hillary Clinton campaign?

Suggest you consider cooling down. It's just talk here. Thais are going to the streets soon and the issue isn't a sugar tax!

Takin it to the streets, you say?

What will they eat that is convenient to carry,

Has red and yellow packaging,

Not too sweet,

Not too sour,

And can keep one up for days?

[zydeco]

I don't doubt there are ethnic differences in this regard. Like my ethnicity has a very high rate of lactose intolerance and IBS in females. It's not "racist" for scientists to study these kinds of differences. It's helpful.

As I am part Cherokee/Choctaw, I have seen the effects of increased rates of obesity and diabetes firsthand. Although it does sometimes work the other way around, too. Cheap and abundant corn and corn based products introduced into the European diet has probably contributed to obesity as well. Although I would guess almost any group would improve their relative health if they limited portions. But fast food culture, another American invention, works directly against that notion. Bigger portions and larger plates = bigger people with more health problems. Western food lifestyles are seductive and what warnings and labeling that are available in the US seem to be absent here. That said, people do need to be free to make their own choices. It would be nice, however, if the choices were informed ones.

[Thai at Heart]

FYI, for anyone interested in addressing the issue of the Western diet on non-Western peoples. Here is info from the CDC:

Why do some racial and ethnic groups have higher rates of diabetes?

Diabetes can indeed run in families," meaning that heredity often makes someone more likely to develop diabetes. Researchers believe that certain genes affecting immune response can play a role in the development of type 1 diabetes, while genes affecting insulin function can contribute to the development of type 2 diabetes. While African Americans, Hispanic/Latino Americans, American Indians, Asian Americans, and Pacific Islander Americans have a slightly lower rate of type 1 diabetes, they are at a higher risk for type 2 diabetes than the rest of the population.

Many researchers think that some African Americans, Hispanic/Latino Americans, American Indians, Asian Americans, and Pacific Islander Americans inherited a "thrifty gene" which helped their ancestors store food energy better during times when food was plentiful, to survive during times when food was scarce. Now that feast or famine situations rarely occur for most people in the United States, the gene which was once helpful may now put these groups at a higher risk for type 2 diabetes.

In addition, poverty, lack of access to health care, cultural attitudes and behaviors are barriers to preventive and diabetes management care for some minority Americans.

http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/consumer/groups.htm

Give it 30 years and I have a sneaking suspicion that HFCS will be blamed for an explosion of diabetes.

Its just not right for humans to consume that much fructose in huge volume.

[NCFC]

I shouldn't have to pay more for my food because lardies have no self-control